G series camera with APS-C sensor being tested by Canon

[FlexiPack]

Source - Canon Rumours (http://www.canonrumors.com/)

Canon are at the moment testing a G series camera with an APS-C sensor. It's not expected to be announced until Photokina 2010 so it's a way off. But it's exciting news and looks likely to happen. I for one am really pleased to see Canon responding to the Sigma DP2 & Olympus E-P1 with a DSLR sensor in a compact body. Here are the test specs taken from Canon Rumours:

Test Camera Specs
15.1mp CMOS 1.6x Crop
3x Zoom (24-70 IS, no speed information)
3″ 920k LCD
ISO 100-3200
DIGIC V
SD Card
1080p HD Movie Mode
Body is slightly larger than the G10
New Battery
No Viewfinder (Flash shoe VF?)
Flash Shoe

See here (http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/07/canon-gmos-cr2/) for the original post on Canon Rumours

[CJinAustin]

If true, I wish it had interchangeable lenses like the EP1.

[Glyno]

looks promising except for - "Body is slightly larger than the G10" :(

[tkbslc]

You guys are hard to please!

You think they can just cram a 8x larger sensor in the same size body!? And personally, I think a 24-70 IS fixed lens is perfect. Interchangeable lenses would require a new mount and new lenses and would add to the expense, size, and complexity of the setup. The e-p1 with the 14-45 is not that small. using a fixed lens may allow it to fold more into the body so it is closer to being compact.

[Tee Why]

I'd wish for an EVF and interchangeable lenses.
If the lens is fixed, 24-70 IS isn't a bad way to go. I hope it's fast though.

I'd prefer maybe 10MP with less noise personally instead of 15MP, but Canon seems to want to lead the MP race, but this isn't a big deal for me.

Let's hope it's a slick looking package with good ergonomics that the G series already has and that the price is lower than the Olympus EP-1 at $800 with a 14-42 kit lens.

I'd like to see about $600 as street price but I suspect it may be $700 in reality.

Who knows, interesting rumor.

[CJinAustin]

You guys are hard to please!

You think they can just cram a 8x larger sensor in the same size body!? And personally, I think a 24-70 IS fixed lens is perfect. Interchangeable lenses would require a new mount and new lenses and would add to the expense, size, and complexity of the setup. The e-p1 with the 14-45 is not that small. using a fixed lens may allow it to fold more into the body so it is closer to being compact.

I just want the EP1 with a pancake prime. sweet.

[tkbslc]

But if the G10 has an f2.8 lens, then wouldn't you rather have a zoom that folds to about the same size? I think that is possible with a fixed lens.

[CJinAustin]

Here's what I would rather have...
I would like to see Canon make something almost just like the olympus only with a built in flash and a faster pancake prime lens offered. Like a 1.8.

[FlexiPack]

I can't decide which i'd prefer. The fixed lens would mean it retracts allowing for (one would presume) a smaller body when turned off, which in turn would mean more pocketable.

However the prospect of interchangable lenses and the obvious backwards compatibility that would be available with EF/EFS lenses (well they'd be fools not too if they made it with interchangable lenses) is very tempting.

I think it would all depend on how good the built in lens is. If it's fast and low distortion then i'd be happy with that.

These are test specs so it's possible they'll change. As long as the body is not bigger than the E-P1 and they don't mess it up in some other area then I'd bet it'd be a winner.

Either way, backwards compatibility with my 430EX may lure me away from the E-P1!

[tkbslc]

I think compatibility with EOS lenses would be a waste of time as it would make the camera too big to be worthwhile. Even smallish primes like the 35mm f2 would be bigger than the Olympus 14-42 m43 lens.

[weezerfan84]

It's hard to go from a DSLR back to a P&S. I tried it and the P&S lost. Just can't compare, and I've just dealt with people looking uncomfortable when they get popped for a picture.

A P&S is very convient, but I think it's really only convient as a JPEG machine. So much is done in the Camera that you can just pop off a few pics and have fun. The Olympus EP-1 looks very promising, but now you're knocking on the DSLR size door. You could probably get an XTi or XS and a Canon 50 1.8 for less money.

I like the idea that P&S are going, but jamming more MP's is not the answer. Especially, on a sensor that just can't handle the noise all that well. I would think more DSLR owners would be interested in the EP-1 line; however, it's not that portable.

A G-series with an APS-C sensor is nice, but the price will be more than the XS. Shoot, I would much rather get the T1i and have the versatility of a DSLR. Now if they could make this "new" G-series around the price of the current G10 then not a bad deal. I'm looking at it to retail for maybe $599 or 699. It's a big step from what they offer with the G10, due to sensor size and slightly bigger body.

[Jannie]

I used to have a lot of fun with my G9 but once I no longer had it, I started carrying around my DSLR and it's a big much. I take a camera every day with me on my walks. Mostly I photograph a lot of flowers and stuff down at the harbor and then post them to my facebook albums. Lately on a whim and reading the others were making use of cell phone cameras, I took my 3Gs iPhone and went to work. Well for Facebook stuff it's pretty great, I won't be getting another point and shoot until they do come out with something that offers much higher image quality which would offer an option for a traveler or PJ in some situations where it's not a great idea to take a fully loaded camera. The new iPhone has a macro setup which is pretty amazing and I can select where in the frame I want the lens to focus. For a cell phone or even a point and shoot, processing it in just the iPhoto software, I'm pretty amazed. I learned to not expect high end results from my point and shoot cameras even though they did a good job, the gap was still too large. That said, using a G9 was really fun and it felt very good in hand and I loved what it could do for what it was. From what I've seen of the G10 that a friend has, it's even nicer. But with what I'm getting out of the iPhone, like I said, no more point and shoot cameras until they up the IQ so possibly one of the cameras that offer a 3/4 sensor will be the way I go.

[peterbj7]

"No viewfinder" will be a major negative. Many people won't buy a compact without, as it's very difficult to see an LCD screen outdoors in bright sunlight. I wouldn't buy it for that reason alone.

[JackLiu]

On the next generation G10, I would prefer a larger sensor (as rumored), a fixed lens equiv to 28mm f2.0/1.8 (or interchangeable lenses), around 12MP, PC flash post, & viewfinder. Also capable to accept current Canon speedlites.

[shadowcat]

I would like an EP-1 style G camera but if they stay with the current retractable lens I want more zoom like the sx200is 12x lens I would love to see a G camera with full frame sensor.

[MFor]

Olympus EP-2, Lumix GF-1, GH-1, Ricoh GXR, Samsung NX10 (very near), maybe (http://nikonrumors.com/2009/10/16/its-a-nikon-patents-friday-nikon-mirrorless-interchangeable-lens-camera.aspx) even Nikon... Canon please wake up! :mad:

[cccc]

"No viewfinder" will be a major negative. Many people won't buy a compact without, as it's very difficult to see an LCD screen outdoors in bright sunlight. I wouldn't buy it for that reason alone.
then use your slr in bright sunlight.

the new displays canon made for th 7d look promising with their anti-glare tech.

Adding efs lenses will make it a small rebel. You guys can't have everything.
It's only a point and shoot with a big sensor, not a small dslr. The majority of people i see shooting on a compact camera look at the display anyways. I think viewfinders are hindering the consumer market really. Getting rid of them will allow for more space.


the point of my rant is, if you want a view finder, and you want a big sensor, AND you want to change lenses, canon isn't the system for you.

[Collin85]

If this the lens is constant f/2.8 and it performs respectably wide-open, with an improved contrast-detect AF system, I may very well sell off half my dSLR gear. Looks very promising, if true.

I don't think anyone should complain about the size being 'slightly bigger' than the G10. For an APS-C camera, that's amazing. Moreover, it may not actually be that beneficial to have the camera being lens-interchangeable; the main benefit would be to have smaller lenses, but being APS-C, the lenses wouldn't be, at best, the size of the current EF-S offerings. Such size of the lenses would kill off the pocketability aspect and I'd rather have a Rebel if that was the case.

Finally, no thanks to Canon really. Many thanks to Panasonic and Olympus for kickstarting this new 'niche'. Otherwise we all know Canon would never bother.

[J_TULLAR]

Interesting...

[Jannie]

Yes very interesting...

[gkarris]

Leica's got an APS-C P&S already...

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/LeicaX1/

[Collin85]

Leica's got an APS-C P&S already...

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/LeicaX1/

Yes, but a Canon one wouldn't be $2000. :lol:

More importantly, Canon has a reputation for releasing well-rounded, reliable point and shoot cameras. For example, players like Panasonic may always offer point and shoots with high-spec sheets (which I applaud), but many secretly wish for Canon to jump in the same bandwagon, as overall superior functionality (JPEG output, metering, reliability, ergonomics etc.) is almost guaranteed. If Canon released an APS-C P&S; besides the lower cost, I'm willing to bet the AF, metering, JPEG output and high-ISO would be better than the Leica. Canon simply has too much experience with this market.

[gkarris]

^^^ I've used and like Canon P&S compared to all the others I've used.

So it won't be $2,000, but since the Digital PEN is $800 won't an APS-C P&S (larger than a 4/3) going to cost around the same if not more?

[Collin85]

^^^ I've used and like Canon P&S compared to all the others I've used.

So it won't be $2,000, but since the Digital PEN is $800 won't an APS-C P&S (larger than a 4/3) going to cost around the same if not more?

More than $800? Absolutely. But there's a huge difference between $2000 and $800! Moreover, this thread is about a G-series camera with an APS-C sensor. So although the sensor has received a huge upgrade, they can't suddenly jump the price multiple times and expect to sell it as another member of the G-lineup, which would never retail anywhere near $2000. :)

[Bob_A]

Why would it be a G-series camera? Most that buy a G-series are looking for feature rich P&S with a decent zoom, not something with a fixed focal length lens. And even with a pancake style lens it won't be retractable so the camera is going to be much larger than a current G-series cam.

However, I would really like to see Canon produce a quality rangefinder system with interchangeable lenses like Leica. Maybe with an adaptor we could use some of those sweet Leica optics on it and have the best of both worlds.

[gardengirl13]

Man I would love a G type camera (maybe a new line, not the G series) with a 24-70 f/2.8L IS zoom on it. To heck with interchangeable lenses, this is a p&s, so no lenses, if people want that get a rebel. I need something light to take everywhere without the compromise of a p&s. Yes I would pay $800-1000 for this. It's exactly what I would need for a camera (well if it was a 24-105 f/2.8L IS it would be!)

It wold be expensive yes, but worth it to those who would benefit from it. Sure canon won't be able to sell lenses to it's owners, but for the price they'd still make bank on it. Plus a lot of it's users would use it with their DSLRs.

[peterbj7]

I think you'd pay a lot more than $1000 for the sort of camera you're talking about. And also "light to take everywhere?" - I think this camera would hardly be that. It certainly wouldn't be pocketable.

And why stick with f2.8? You can already get a HQ Canon compact with an f2.0 zoom lens, one that WILL slip into your pocket.

[Bob_A]

Man I would love a G type camera (maybe a new line, not the G series) with a 24-70 f/2.8L IS zoom on it. To heck with interchangeable lenses, this is a p&s, so no lenses, if people want that get a rebel. I need something light to take everywhere without the compromise of a p&s. Yes I would pay $800-1000 for this. It's exactly what I would need for a camera (well if it was a 24-105 f/2.8L IS it would be!)

It wold be expensive yes, but worth it to those who would benefit from it. Sure canon won't be able to sell lenses to it's owners, but for the price they'd still make bank on it. Plus a lot of it's users would use it with their DSLRs.


And it would also be almost as big and heavy as a DSLR. :)

[AllenF]

Folks I hope you did the math and figured that 24-70 on a APS C = 38.4-112. Not sure most would be happy with the not so wide on the bottom.

[gardengirl13]

And it would also be almost as big and heavy as a DSLR. :)


Ah-ha see the key word there is almost! I'm not looking for a matchbook size pocketable camera. I'm looking for something lighter then a rebel, more like the G10 is. Also it'd be lighter since you won't have the weight of a zoom lens on it.

I just need something really good quality for every day shooting when I can't bring the heavier stuff. My hands are having problems with with weight of the 30D with a lens attached.

24 is wide enough for me, it's my widest lens right now and I very rarely could ever use something wider.

But in all honesty I think a 1.8 lens would be better, but then the weight would go up even more.

[Jannie]

Makes sense to me, the G series cameras have been huge successes and to simply make it with a larger sensor appeals to the G series market and me in particular. Also having the 24-70 lens is good too, and offers a lot of potential as a back up camera for a lot of people who travel.

[peterbj7]

I think the sort of camera people are talking about here will be substantially bigger than a G10. To me there are three classes of (above water) camera.

(1) A full blown SLR, with lots of lenses, large flash units, and a big and heavy bag to carry it all in
(2) At the other extreme is one of the highly pocketable compacts, which can give excellent results in good light. Virtually all functions are automatic, but optimised for quick and successful use. The ideal in this size is something like the SDnnnIS series, just about as small as they come, though I would stretch the category to include the new S90 as it's such a superb beast and it's still perfectly pocketable
(3) In the middle we have the G-series. Lots of manual operations but which can also be automatic, barely pocketable but still highly portable.

I have one of each of the above categories, and I use them in different circumstances. I would see a new APS-C G series as a substitute for my G10, but if it were to be a lot bigger and hence not pocketable at all then it would necessarily fall into the SLR category. Then I'm afraid it would lose out to my existing SLR.

No, unless it is as pocketable as the G11 then I don't think the new APS-C compact will have a logical place.

[Bob_A]

Ah-ha see the key word there is almost! I'm not looking for a matchbook size pocketable camera. I'm looking for something lighter then a rebel, more like the G10 is. Also it'd be lighter since you won't have the weight of a zoom lens on it.

I just need something really good quality for every day shooting when I can't bring the heavier stuff. My hands are having problems with with weight of the 30D with a lens attached.

24 is wide enough for me, it's my widest lens right now and I very rarely could ever use something wider.

But in all honesty I think a 1.8 lens would be better, but then the weight would go up even more.

I'm confused (no big surprise) :D, in the post I responded to you said you'd like it with a 24-70 f/2.8 (a zoom) and in this post you say it would be lighter because it "won't have the weight of a zoom lens on it". And a APS-C P&S camera with a 24-70 f/1.8 lens (even EF-S size) would be huge and likely be heavier than your 30D with a 24.70 f/2.8L. It'd be fun to see a tiny body with this monster lens sticking out from it though. And it'd be even more amusing to see people try to shoot with it while watching the LCD on the back of the camera.

I'm hoping Canon comes out with an APS-C or full frame rangefinder camera with a great viewfinder that takes fixed focal length manual focus lenses similar to the Leica M9.

[funks]

Hmm, instead of being sized like the current G11.. How about something close to an SX10 IS w an APS-C sensor and a 17-32 @ F2.8-up (equiv, to a 28 -> 52 mm FF).

If they pick such a large zoom range, it'll be impossible to keep the lens small. The lens needs to be somewhat fast (make it a good low ligh - for Parties and such) - I remember my original Power Shot G1 having a fast lens (F2) w/ a 3X zoom (34-102).

Alot of people are buying the Panasonic GF1 w/ the pancake lens (quite pocketable). But the GF1 w/ the 14-45 Lens is just downright bulky (and the u4/3 is already smaller than the APS-C sensor hence it'll be quite hard for canon to make smaller lens).

[midget]

Folks I hope you did the math and figured that 24-70 on a APS C = 38.4-112. Not sure most would be happy with the not so wide on the bottom.

id assume that the lens wouldnt be actually a 24-70, but a 24-70 equivalent (whatever that is, im not in the mood to do the math)

[breathtakingbluesky]

Olympus EP-2, Lumix GF-1, GH-1, Ricoh GXR, Samsung NX10 (very near), maybe (http://nikonrumors.com/2009/10/16/its-a-nikon-patents-friday-nikon-mirrorless-interchangeable-lens-camera.aspx) even Nikon... Canon please wake up! :mad:
+1
Come on Canon!

So given the new G-series is (allegedly) not hosting interchangeable lenses, any bets on when Canon announce a mirrorless interchangeable system?

[Bradfordguy]

Canon could really pull one out of a hat here and introduce a completely new size of sensor specifically tailored to the G series body without going all the way to an APS-C. Who knows? If in fact it does come out with the aps-c and is marginally larger you can count me in. I don't need the extra body size required to go with removeable lenses though. To me that defeats the whole concept of the G series cameras. Give me great glass that folds in and keeps it compact. I have a DSLR for the rest.