Sigma EF-500 DG Super Help

[dsze]

I got my Sigma EF-500 DG Super this week and have been trying to make sense of the manual. I'm playing around with using it as the master and my 420EX as a slave. It seems to work, it triggers the 420 consistently and I get good results, but I just don't feel like I understand everything on the LCD of the new Sigma and the manual is pretty much worthless. Can someone point me to a better explanation of some of the functions?

Also, Is it possible to use the Sigma (as master) to trigger the 420, but not fire itself? ...just use the sigma as a sender to trigger the 420 in a remote location, but get no flash from the sigma?

thanks,
daniel

[HJMinard]

I don't have any answers for you, Daniel ... just wanted to agree that the manual is worthless. Good flash ... lots of functions ... wish I knew how to use them.

[lostdoggy]

I got my super for about 8 month and the only thing that I know is that it fires and if you tip the head too far down the flash thinks you are in bounce position and the auto zoom won't work. Besides you're shooting digital just fire away and test each function eventually you'll figure it out.

[dsze]

Anybody know if I can trigger a slave, without the Sigma itself firing?

-daniel

[primoz]

This is right thing, since when you push it down, it is in "bounce" position. Lowest position is, if I remember right, 7 degres down of center line.
Dsze: With 10d/20d I think you have custom function which makes it possible not to fire flash, but I'm not 100% sure about this. I have never been shooting much with either of those cameras and 1d doesn't have this option.
Btw... which functions are the ones which you don't understand?

[Reminisce]

I own the Sigma DG Super and here are a couple things that may help you:

When the LCD reads ETTL in the top left corner, your flash is in full automatic mode and will adjust its power level according to the exposure the camera sends to it.
You can use Flash Exposure Compensation in almost any mode by pressing SEL til the black +/- icon flashes.
When "M" is lit up in the top, the flash is in Manual mode. The fractional numbers you see are how much power the flash will use as high as 1/1 which is full power down to 1/128.
When "Multi" is lit up, it is a mode that sends out multiple strobe flashes. I've never used this mode in the half year i've owned my Sigma so maybe someone else can help you here.

ETTL with the lighting symbol and the 2 lighting symbols following is putting the flash in Wireless TTL with the C1 being one of the 4 channels you can operate this on. You can change many options here by pressing SEL.

Now, if you want to fire the slave flash without the Sigma firing, put the Sigma in the mode above I mentioned and press the + key til the Lightning icon has a cancel mark over it. Be warned though, the sigma will STILL preflash in this mode, which is how it tells the slave flashes to fire. if you're 420 is set to fire optically it will most likely fire early before the shutter, then again it may not.

Pressing mode til the channel says "C0" means the sigma is now in Optical mode and will fire anytime it senses a strobe of light. This mode is pretty delicate and works very well, it will pick up a strobe flash from quite a ways off, even with its back turned to the source, from my experience.

Hope that helps a bit. THis is all just off the top of my head.

[Jwreich]

Just leaned how to may my Sigma 500 fire as a slave to my built in flash on the 350D. I'm happy, now I just need to learn how to use the flash.... Thanks for this information...

[PacAce]

Just leaned how to may my Sigma 500 fire as a slave to my built in flash on the 350D. I'm happy, now I just need to learn how to use the flash.... Thanks for this information...
Have you actually taken a picture with that set up and inspected the result or did you just watch the Sigma fire and assume that it's working properly as a slave. I'm thinking you did the later because the internal flash of the 350D will fire a preflash which will set off the Sigma in optical slave mode. However, the main flash for the picture doesn't come until a split second later. Depending on how much charge the Sigma had left after the initial fire, you may or may not get the result you were expecting.

[Headcase650]

The sigma is designed to work with E-TTL cameras and when set as an optical slave it doesnt fire on the preflash.

I think the biggest problem with this flash is the manual and understanding how to use it. Most people get frustrated and think its a piece of crap befor they have truly learned how to use it.

[PacAce]

The sigma is designed to work with E-TTL cameras and when set as an optical slave it doesnt fire on the preflash.

I think the biggest problem with this flash is the manual and understanding how to use it. Most people get frustrated and think its a piece of crap befor they have truly learned how to use it.
If that is the case, then the manual must be wrong since that's what I based my previous post on (see the part boxed in red below). As far as I know, the built-in flash always functions in ETTL mode.
.

[Headcase650]

I stand corrected. I have tried it as a slave to my on camera flash and it seemed to work fine, but maybe It did fire late and the on camera flash was enough. The weird thing is I turned the FEC down a couple of stops on the camera so when the shot was properly exposed I assumed the Sigma was triggered with the shutter.

[PacAce]

I stand corrected. I have tried it as a slave to my on camera flash and it seemed to work fine, but maybe It did fire late and the on camera flash was enough. The weird thing is I turned the FEC down a couple of stops on the camera so when the shot was properly exposed I assumed the Sigma was triggered with the shutter.
No sweat. As you said earlier, the Sigma manual isn't the easiest or the clearest manual to read and understand. :)

[DavidEB]

I have the Sigma super and a 420 EX.

setup 1) put the sigma on the camera hotshoe, set the 420EX to slave mode, group B. set the flash ratio on the sigma using group 1: group 2. group 2 for sigma means group B for 420EX. I've found that if you don't set ratios then sometimes the 420EX fires full strength. optionally you can cycle thru the sigma menus until you get the cancel mark on the flash output, then the sigma doesn't fire during the exposure but the 420EX will. note: you will see the sigma fire, that's the communications pre-flash.

setup 2) pop up the in-camera flash, put the sigma in manual slave mode. you can't use the 420EX. the camera pre-flash will trigger the sigma, and when the camera exposure flash goes off a few milliseconds later the sigma will still be re-cycling, hence dark. WORK-AROUND -- fire the camera pre-flash with Flash Exposure Lock, that will also fire the sigma. wait 1-2 seconds, take the exposure, the sigma will fire in sync with the on-camera expsore flash. Remaining problem - the camera will dial down the on-camera flash output, use FEC to turn it back up. I use + 1 1/2 stops.

have fun.

[Jwreich]

Have you actually taken a picture with that set up and inspected the result or did you just watch the Sigma fire and assume that it's working properly as a slave. I'm thinking you did the later because the internal flash of the 350D will fire a preflash which will set off the Sigma in optical slave mode. However, the main flash for the picture doesn't come until a split second later. Depending on how much charge the Sigma had left after the initial fire, you may or may not get the result you were expecting.

Yes I have taken pictures and I have inspected them. I did notice the sigma was firing on the preflash, but with some careful planning (ie manual focusing) I eliminated the Canon preflash resulting in a perfect sync between the canon and the sigma.

Therefore my shots were just want I wanted. There were times the sigma would fire early and I was getting frustrated understanding why....

[PacAce]

Yes I have taken pictures and I have inspected them. I did notice the sigma was firing on the preflash, but with some careful planning (ie manual focusing) I eliminated the Canon preflash resulting in a perfect sync between the canon and the sigma.

Therefore my shots were just want I wanted. There were times the sigma would fire early and I was getting frustrated understanding why....
I'm not sure what you mean by careful planning but manual focusing will not affect how the flash works and there is no way to prevent the preflash from firing because that's just how ETTL works. But if you're happy with the results you're getting then that's all that really counts.

[DavidEB]

repeat -- Flash Exposure Lock separates the pre-flash from the exposure, allows this to work.

[PacAce]

repeat -- Flash Exposure Lock separates the pre-flash from the exposure, allows this to work.
Kind of kludgy but, yes, you can get it to work that way.

[MLSK]

What are the ways to elimiate the pre-flash?

[DavidEB]

The only way I know of to do this is to use Flash Exposure Lock (FEL) which is the * button, assuming that Custom Function 4 is set to 0 (on a 20D -- this doesn't matter on a d-rebel). Frame the photo, press * -- the pre-flash will go off and the camera will determine exposure. Note that the pre-flash will trigger the sigma (if it's in manual slave mode). Now wait a few seconds, enough to allow the sigma to recharge, and then take the picture. Only a single flash will go off, and the sigma will fire in synch with the camera's flash.

you will have to do some fiddling to get the exposure right from the on-camera flash.


good luck,

[MadMesh]

Since all you guys are sigma experts =) ... I too have a 420ex... and I really wanted to buy a 580ex as a Master to Salve my 420. I wanted to try and save a little Cash, and i wanted to know if the Sigma Super can be a MASTER to the 420ex? I wanted to use the Singma ON my camera hotshoe, and use the 420 as a fill flash. I actually wanted to buy another 420 or even two sigma supers. Any advise? Im trying to create a mobile portrait studio. Also, let me know if this is a bad idea, and if i should stick with studio strobes. Im really trying to take advantage of ETTL and not use a light meter. (also stay portable)

[MLSK]

Thanks, David. I tried it and it works for me!
On closer look, using the FEL triggers the Sigma to fire off a redundant flash because, as explained above, the FEL has separated the pre-flash.

[dsze]

Yes, the Sigma Super can master to a slave 420.

-daniel

[MadMesh]

can the sigma still ETTL-II ? Any objections as to performance compared to the 580ex? I know there is a huge cost difference here... but im willing to give a non-canon brand a shot if it can meet my needs in a Master/Slave setup using FULL ETTL/ETTL-II. Im doing portraits the lazy way, and i figure id save the $ not buying a flash meter.

[dsze]

The sigma super is advertised as being able to do ETTL-II. I have never owned a 580, so I can't make a direct comparison, but I am thoroughly enjoying my sigma super. I've gotten some great shots with my 420 as a slave and will be using that combo in an upcoming wedding. If I didn't think I could rely on this combo, I certainly wouldn't consider using it for a wedding shoot.

-daniel

[MadMesh]

Thanks for the advise daze! I think im gona give the sigma a shot... Quick question tho... When you are NOT doing wireless shooting (master/slave).. Which flash unit do you usually have on ur hotshoe as your carry around flash? , sigma or your 420ex.? I know the sigma is more powerful, i was just thinking since you didnt buy a slave version of the 420ex, you might be using that when ur not shooting mater/slave? =) thanks

[MadMesh]

sorry... ...buy a slave version of the 420ex, you might be using that when ur not shooting mater/slave? =) thanks
I was trying to say salve version of the Sigma (non super version)

[dsze]

I'm not sure I understand ??? ...but to answer your question, I have mostly kept the sigma on when not using wireless 2-flash set-up. Mostly because its the new flash and I wanted to get some experience with it. I've never had a problem with the 420 not being powerful enough though. For everything I've ever used it for, its had plenty of light output. I have left the sigma on for normal use though, so that if I decide to grab the slave (420), the master is already in place, it is more powerful and offers more manual control. Downside is that its big and bulky compared to the 420.

-daniel