60D Rumor Thread -

[Bill Boehme]

I was at a local camera store recently and a customer with a 40D was talking to a Canon rep about upgrading to a 50D. The rep stated that the difference between those two models was not all that significant and he would be much better off waiting a few more months for the 60D. Since that is all of the information that he volunteered, I suppose that it will be up to me to fill in the gaps with idle speculation. For starters, the performance specifications of the 1Ds III along with faster processors, wider ISO range, live view, and full HD video at the same price as the 50D would be good.

[ThomasOwenM]

I'd say there is a significant difference between the 40 and the 50D. The 50 will do ISO 6400 and 12,800. It also allows for your microcalibrating it to your lenses. That may not be that big of a deal to some, but for me both these features are huge and are why I'll be paying more for the 50. I might wait till the 60 is released so that the price will go down.

[Chris1le]

Yeah, there is difference between the 40D and 50D. In my opinion the 40D is a better camera. Yes I own both.

[tupper]

Yeah, there is difference between the 40D and 50D. In my opinion the 40D is a better camera. Yes I own both.

Why so? Tests have shown that 50D is better?

[Mud]

I currently use a Sony A-100 and have been saving up for a 40D. Not too long ago a friend of mine told me to just wait for the 60D as hopefully it will also have 1080P recording.

Would the 60D be coming out within the next 6 months or is everything still just speculation? :p

[Bill Boehme]

I think that his point was that the 60D will be a much more significant reason for upgrading from the 40D. The needs/wants of the 40D owner may also have been a part of the recommendation.

BTW, I was all but ready to buy a 50D within the next few days so I rented one for a day for a thorough check-out. It's image quality really threw cold water on my enthusiasm. While it has a number of great features that met my needs, my overall impression is that the 50D is one of the victims of the megapixel war. In order to one-up the competition on number of sensor megapixels, I think that all of the manufacturers (mainly Canon and Nikon) are trading off noise performance for more MP. Especially at high ISO, I felt that the images looked too much like P&S images WRT color and detail smearing regardless of the RAW converter used. Even at ISO 100, the dark areas of images looked grainy with a lot of chroma noise. My personal opinion is that my XTi produces cleaner and sharper images at low ISO and the high ISO noise cleaned up better with Neat Image than it does on the 50D which seems to maintain residual noise.

[ThomasOwenM]

I think that his point was that the 60D will be a much more significant reason for upgrading from the 40D. The needs/wants of the 40D owner may also have been a part of the recommendation.

BTW, I was all but ready to buy a 50D within the next few days so I rented one for a day for a thorough check-out. It's image quality really threw cold water on my enthusiasm. While it has a number of great features that met my needs, my overall impression is that the 50D is one of the victims of the megapixel war. In order to one-up the competition on number of sensor megapixels, I think that all of the manufacturers (mainly Canon and Nikon) are trading off noise performance for more MP. Especially at high ISO, I felt that the images looked too much like P&S images WRT color and detail smearing regardless of the RAW converter used. Even at ISO 100, the dark areas of images looked grainy with a lot of chroma noise. My personal opinion is that my XTi produces cleaner and sharper images at low ISO and the high ISO noise cleaned up better with Neat Image than it does on the 50D which seems to maintain residual noise.

Wow, that might quell my desire to get the 50D. Some of the comparisons I read showed that the 50D did fine with low noise at high ISO. I'm very interested in this because high ISO performance is of paramount importance to me. I've heard you can shoot RAW with the 50D at 7 megapixels. Did you try that? How was the noise?

I don't have to upgrade to the 50D. I could go with the 40. My other option is a used or refurb 5D.

[Bill Boehme]

Wow, that might quell my desire to get the 50D. Some of the comparisons I read showed that the 50D did fine with low noise at high ISO. I'm very interested in this because high ISO performance is of paramount importance to me. I've heard you can shoot RAW with the 50D at 7 megapixels. Did you try that? How was the noise?

I don't have to upgrade to the 50D. I could go with the 40. My other option is a used or refurb 5D.

I only used the standard RAW and did not try the smaller size RAW formats. If you have a local camera store that rents or loans cameras, I would encourage to make your own evaluation since your needs may be different than mine. I thought that the autofocus function was excellent with its nine cross type sensors and a "double-cross" at the center. I also liked the viewfinder screen and the exposure metering options. I downloaded the user manual and read through it the day before renting the camera so that I could hit the ground running. I found that the menu was reasonably easy to learn and I liked the dedicated buttons on the back of the body. For some reason, the unit that I rented seemed to use up the battery rather quickly -- I had to stop and recharge the battery twice (I shot just over 200 images). Rental cameras probably get a lot of use and abuse so the batteries may have been worn out -- I also used a lens with IS which makes a difference in battery life.

[Brianbar]

I think that his point was that the 60D will be a much more significant reason for upgrading from the 40D. The needs/wants of the 40D owner may also have been a part of the recommendation.

BTW, I was all but ready to buy a 50D within the next few days so I rented one for a day for a thorough check-out. It's image quality really threw cold water on my enthusiasm. While it has a number of great features that met my needs, my overall impression is that the 50D is one of the victims of the megapixel war. In order to one-up the competition on number of sensor megapixels, I think that all of the manufacturers (mainly Canon and Nikon) are trading off noise performance for more MP. Especially at high ISO, I felt that the images looked too much like P&S images WRT color and detail smearing regardless of the RAW converter used. Even at ISO 100, the dark areas of images looked grainy with a lot of chroma noise. My personal opinion is that my XTi produces cleaner and sharper images at low ISO and the high ISO noise cleaned up better with Neat Image than it does on the 50D which seems to maintain residual noise.

Hi Bill,
When you rented the 50D, did it come with a lens? If you used your own lens then the Micro adjustment has to be re-calibrated, and that could be the reason you where not happy with the IQ.
My son has the 50D, and after doing the Micro adjustments he believes this is the best xxD he's owned regarding IQ.

Brian

[Bill Boehme]

Hi Bill,
When you rented the 50D, did it come with a lens? If you used your own lens then the Micro adjustment has to be re-calibrated, and that could be the reason you where not happy with the IQ.
My son has the 50D, and after doing the Micro adjustments he believes this is the best xxD he's owned regarding IQ.

Brian

I used my own lenses with the camera and I didn't have any problem with sharpness -- they were all tack sharp except when I forgot to focus (I used the button on the back to focus). I didn't bother with the micro adjustments since I did not see any need to. My complaint about the images was strictly due to noise as far as I could determine. I had the highlight feature turned off since I believe that it can result in more noise when turned on.

EDIT: BTW, the noise was only a problem at 100% size except for ISO 1600 and ISO 3200. I did not bother with anything higher than that.

[PIXmantra]

Yeah, there is difference between the 40D and 50D. In my opinion the 40D is a better camera. Yes I own both.


...Here they are:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=713613

Enjoy,

PIX

[Bill Boehme]

Here are some 100% crops that show ISO noise at 100, 800, 1600, and 3200. The only image processing was done in ACR with the same amount of NR and capture sharpening for all images. After ACR processing, Photoshop was only used to crop, add shooting notes, and merge the four images into one. Although I did not use Neat Image to clean up noise on these four images, the results on other images was acceptable at lower ISO values, but not so good at 800 and higher. The best noise reduction tool seemed to be downsizing the image to 50% or less of the original.

The lens used was the EF 70-200 mm f/2.8L IS USM.

Here is a summary of most ACR adjustments which we common to all images.
White Balance = Custom
Temperature = 5200
Tint = +10
Exposure = 0.00
Shadows = 1
Brightness = +46
Contrast = +39
Saturation = 0
Sharpness = 48
Luminance Smoothing = 0
Color Noise Reduction = 15
Chromatic Aberration R: different for each image
Chromatic Aberration B: different for each image
FillLight = 22
Vibrance = +12
Highlight Recovery = 5
Clarity = +34
Sharpen Radius = +0.7
Sharpen Detail = 39
Sharpen Edge Masking = 27

http://www.pbase.com/bill_boehme/image/114209780/original.jpg

[Chris1le]

Hi Bill,
When you rented the 50D, did it come with a lens? If you used your own lens then the Micro adjustment has to be re-calibrated, and that could be the reason you where not happy with the IQ.
My son has the 50D, and after doing the Micro adjustments he believes this is the best xxD he's owned regarding IQ.

Brian

This is exactly why the 40D and all previous xxD cameras are better than the 50D. Micro adjust is BS. I put any of my lenses on the previous bodies and the images are sharp. I've had the 50D sent back to Canon twice to have it calibrated. Both times they agreed it was out of calibration and as far as I'm concerned the images are nowhere as sharp as previous bodies. This even after fiddling around with micro adjust.

In a real shooting environment, not shooting rulers, the IQ of the 50D just does not hold up well.

[jm4ever]

I think that his point was that the 60D will be a much more significant reason for upgrading from the 40D. The needs/wants of the 40D owner may also have been a part of the recommendation.

BTW, I was all but ready to buy a 50D within the next few days so I rented one for a day for a thorough check-out. It's image quality really threw cold water on my enthusiasm. While it has a number of great features that met my needs, my overall impression is that the 50D is one of the victims of the megapixel war. In order to one-up the competition on number of sensor megapixels, I think that all of the manufacturers (mainly Canon and Nikon) are trading off noise performance for more MP. Especially at high ISO, I felt that the images looked too much like P&S images WRT color and detail smearing regardless of the RAW converter used. Even at ISO 100, the dark areas of images looked grainy with a lot of chroma noise. My personal opinion is that my XTi produces cleaner and sharper images at low ISO and the high ISO noise cleaned up better with Neat Image than it does on the 50D which seems to maintain residual noise.

If you think the 50D was a victim of the megapixels war what makes you think that the 60D will somehow avoid the same fate? I don't think there is any way the 60D will have any less megapixels than the 50D, in fact if its different it will probablly have more rather than less.

As far as the 50D producing P&S images compared to your XTi or any other XX body, I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that. I have heard that the 50D does require some good glass to get the most out of its higher resolution, so unless someone uses crap lenses the images should be very similar.

Most negative reports about the 50D seem to focus on noise at high ISO's especially compared to the 40D which seems to be a touch better under some testing. If you were finding the 50D noisy at ISO 100 and your XTi could produce a clean shot under identical conditions then I suspect the 50D you tried was defective.

[lungdoc]

100% crop comparisons have been discussed to death; this thread has some very in-depth discussion (and I think debunking of that as a basis to disparage 50D); bottom line to me is the increased resolution didn't come at a cost of higher noise at equivalent sizes. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=706255

[jblaschke]

My personal opinion is that my XTi produces cleaner and sharper images at low ISO and the high ISO noise cleaned up better with Neat Image than it does on the 50D which seems to maintain residual noise.

I haven't found this the case at all. The Wife's 50D consistently out-performs my XTi at ISO 100-800, and despite the griping about the 50D's noise at 1600 and above, it really blows past the XTi at the upper limits. Does it chafe that the 500D has markedly better high ISO performance at the same megapixel resolution? You bet. But does that diminish the 50D as a whole? Not really.

I can only assume Canon will address the noise issue with the 60D release, but I wouldn't expect to hear anything definitive about that body before Christmas, if Canon follows the 18-month recycle pattern.

[GCGuy]

This is exactly why the 40D and all previous xxD cameras are better than the 50D. Micro adjust is BS. I put any of my lenses on the previous bodies and the images are sharp.

I'll take issue with that statement. For third party lenses such as Sigma where a lot of times they aren't quite right out of the box and when I don't have the time to be without that lens for a few weeks while they fix it, my 50D really shines. Set up a test target, micro adjust, voila! the AF works just fine again. Take that same Sigma 50mm lens and unless you MF everything, it's useless on the 40D and the Rebel XS. It's a very handy feature in my book and glad they finally incorporated after a certain other manufacturer has had that for years.

[Bill Boehme]

I haven't really been following the 50D discussions on the various forums since there is usually too much haranguing and bashing going on. Therefore, I am not "up to speed" on what the various typical camera model trashing threads have been saying about this or other models.

I didn't anticipate my posts to be considered bashing since that was far from my intent -- I was just giving my thoughts and rationale of why I decided to not get the 50D and wait to see what the 60D has to offer (who knows, it might even be an APS-H or FF). The main recommendations for the 50D that got me interested in it came from the bird forum where many of the members use the 50D and the image quality was very impressive. As I mentioned earlier, the comparison to the image quality of the XTi is just my personal opinion based on limited use of the 50D. The bottom line is that I did not see enough of a difference to persuade me to upgrade at this time. However, I saw a great number of things about the 50D that I liked better than my current camera. Also, since yesterday, I upgraded NeatImage Pro+ v5.8 to the latest version and found that there was a very noticeable improvement on cleaning up ISO noise on the 50D images. This is significant enough to reconsider the 50D and other high MP/high ISO cameras for many shooting situations. While I was reluctant to use the XTi at ISO 400 for bird images, the 50D was much better as well as the AF, especially the predictive AI Servo mode which worked exceeding well for BIF shots. My expectation of using the 50D at really high ISO (1600 and above) for bird photography was somewhat too optimistic.

I probably should not have even mentioned my impression of the 50D in this thread since my intent was to just post what I heard at the camera store about the upcoming 60D. I just happened to be returning the rental 50D at the time.

[Atlandis]

Yeah, there is difference between the 40D and 50D. In my opinion the 40D is a better camera. Yes I own both.


:) I am happy I got 40d.. The crops I saw from 50d made me happy.. As I always say, I hate noise.
My dealer informed me that 60d is the one I have to upgrade from 40d (I was not even thinking about 50 after all.. As I got my 40 while 50 was out..) All shops insist that is going to be one of the canon's best..

fingers crossed.

A question of mine.. If you had no camera and ready to get one right away.. 500d or 50d? (lets forget the fps and iso expand...) Lets stay at 100-800 iso performance only. Many people say that 500d got superb IQ for its level and all this dissaponting samples and opinions from 50d users, make you think why and hows that happening.

I believe 50d is equal with 40d, but they boost the 50 with 5 extra mp and avoid to upgrade the whole thing for extra noise performance.. so its more viewable.. Maybe a firmware in the feature will fix that? I remember that Nikon d300 got a firmware last christmas for that!!..

Havent seen any samples from 500d just a couple when the model announced.. It looked like.. less noise but less detail as well (versus 50d)?

[Bill Boehme]

A question of mine.. If you had no camera and ready to get one right away.. 500d or 50d? (lets forget the fps and iso expand...) Lets stay at 100-800 iso performance. Many people say that 500d got superb IQ for its level and all this dissaponting samples and opinions from 50d users, make you think why and hows that happening.

If it were me and my first DSLR with no prior film SLR experience, the 500D seems like a more rational choice for for getting into something more advanced than a small P&S camera. At that stage of the game, it is difficult enough justifying the cost of the basic entry level camera and kit lenses. Later on ... after becoming hopelessly intoxicated by the excitement of the hobby and then subsequently completely numbed by the cost of cameras and lenses, it will be time to dive headlong into it without regard to any sort of financial prudence.

The above is just hypothetical, of course. I would never do anything of the sort myself.

[Atlandis]

I made this point because the 50s 120-140 extra bucks is NOTHING! so its more like equal infront consumer eyes! I live in an extrondinary sunny place and even at winter times we dont need more than 400 iso films (or dslr setting).

the 50 gives a more pro built, more fps and some more sweets.. but 500d is newer with improved noise and video.. Less buttons to play with and the same mp.

[Bill Boehme]

I think that a gee-whiz feature like video might be attractive to a newbie while something like predictive AI servo would mean nothing.

[montse]

I am a newbie, but i don't care so much about video, do you agree a 500d and 40D it is a good choice? Nearby i don't have anywhere to rent the cameras to try.
but i've been reading lots of reports in all of this cameras.
i see what you say about noice, the 500d has more megapixels, and it really improved the noise? to be able to print big size?

[Atlandis]

I believe video is going to be handy for you combined with the photography you need to do.

You will be able to capture in full high definition video, for small projects the moving organisms.. through microscope..

Getting 500d and 40d is not bad idea but 500d is very expensive in Greece 780 euro .I was about to tell you get a 450d and wait for 60d :) Is going to cost you less. 450d cost about 450 euro with lens kit.

buy 50d and then 60d is not an option I believe

[obnoxiousmom]

After reading this thread, im really glad I bought the 40d instead of the 50d

[Njv]

After reading this thread, im really glad I bought the 40d instead of the 50d


No one even made their case about it..but ok. lol.


I don't even know why the "battle of the bodies" exsist. Let the pictures speak for themselves. :rolleyes:

[obnoxiousmom]

No one even made their case about it..but ok. lol.


I don't even know why the "battle of the bodies" exsist. Let the pictures speak for themselves. :rolleyes:

I think several made their case and it was enough to reassure me I made the right choice. I thought even before buying that the 50D was more of a pixel war and Im wondering if the 60D will be the same thing. I cant wait for its arrival because a second camera body will be in my next future purchase and I was hoping the 60D would be great enough for me to make the jump

[montse]

I believe video is going to be handy for you combined with the photography you need to do.

You will be able to capture in full high definition video, for small projects the moving organisms.. through microscope..



maybe it is a silly question, but can you program to take a picture every x minutes?
or to record video for some minutes every x time? i am trying to look at the specifications but i can't see it.

[Atlandis]

yes
Canon cameras can be programmed directly from ur pc to get photos.. I am not sure if you can program it for a specific time of the day as I never used it..

But logically that the easiest part. If you leave your camera and pc on programmed. Also you will be able to work at ur pc and watch the microscope in ur pc screen! ..focus without having to touch or go near to ur camera, etc etc.. I think only canon can do that by default?

here is a video from 50d review. at 7:30 video timeline and afterwards you will see the canon software cooperation LIVE with your camera.. *the software is free and included in all canon EOS cameras

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_50D/video_review.shtml

[montse]

i sounds so cool!!!!
i guess there is no problem to plug into a machintosh either?

[Atlandis]

no problem at all.

[Bill Boehme]

maybe it is a silly question, but can you program to take a picture every x minutes?
or to record video for some minutes every x time? i am trying to look at the specifications but i can't see it.

Yes, you can. Astrophotographers do it to create time lapse videos of the night sky. Check on the Astronomy forum here on POTN. Member A.S.I.G.N. Observatory (Baz) in Canberra, Australia has information on his website about it. Click this link to the thread (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=708950).

[montse]

i can't wait now to get the camera and play with it!

i am seriously looking at 40D to do all this amazing things, so i can get nice EFs lenses as well! i have a very good list of goodies! thanks to you

[Atlandis]

ur going to love 40d.. like a baby!! I love mine and even if I ever buy 60d.. I am not thinking of selling it.

I just love this camera.

[montse]

i would love to buy in a shop tomorrow and bring it home with me!

[Jared Byer]

I heard that canon is considering launching two slightly different versions of the 60D. One would be something like the 60DCF and the other would be the 60DSD. Basically the same camera but with your choice of Compact flash or SD.

[Atlandis]

and why not both? it cost nothing.. if u buy an 8-1 drive cost 3 euro..

[Optiq]

If they want the 60D to make a HUGE splash, they should drop a 1.3 sensor in it and add video. I would buy it if they did the 1.3. The video doesn't interest me that much but I wouldn't push it away for it either!

[The_Caper]

I agree with the majority of the posters in this thread. I absolutely love my 40D with no intentions of ever selling it, nor upgrading my XT to the 50D for a second body. When the 60D does finally arrive, I will then look at getting rid of the XT to have two really great crop boddies.

If they want the 60D to make a HUGE splash, they should drop a 1.3 sensor in it and add video. I would buy it if they did the 1.3. The video doesn't interest me that much but I wouldn't push it away for it either!

I agree 100 percent. Having a 1.3 crop factor in the 60D would be fantastic! If I ever want to take video, I wll simply go out and by a dedicated video camera that shoots in 1080p. There are many nice ones out there, makes sense to me anyway. I bought a DSLR to take stills.

[lungdoc]

No way they'll dump EF-S at this point, if they aren't going to dump EF-S they won't change the "semi-pro/upmarket" xxD to 1.3. While I'd like a lighter, cheaper 1.3 camera with the better focusing system of the 1D series I doubt it will happen; though for that matter a 1D-series autofocus in a xxD 1.6 camera would be nice as well!

[ThomasOwenM]

Please, please no stinkin' SD card. The CF card is the most reliable card type. If you use a DSLR, you're willing to put up with greater bulkiness for the benefit of better quality. If 1 SD card in 100 fails, but 1 CF card in 500 fails, I want the CF card for sure! Plus, I'd rather not have to replace my fleet of CF cards.

[dla69]

Please, please no stinkin' SD card. The CF card is the most reliable card type.

What makes CF cards more reliable than SD?

[Scampo]

Nothing, they're actually less reliable and you can't bend pins on SD cards.

[Atlandis]

You wrong..

1: CF don’t have ANY problem by copying and sharing files fast and without
2: lag.
3: capacity
4: size (I lost many sd cards.. to small)
5: a cf card can write and share files if you have a wireless, (wifi) attached in your camera. Sd cards can't

problems..

I read lots of things about extreme cf problems but I got 5 and not even 1 problem till now.

2x8 3x16gigs.

Sd card is nice as a second card slot for bucking up ur files and nothing more than that.
Its more critically easy to lose files with sd cards than cf cards. And if someone says, cf cards got more problems, I will say it is because we use more cf's than sd's :) and the possibility to find a faulty one is higher in Photography industry.

Cheers


I would never get a dslr semi pro or pro level body with sd card only.. its so noobish.
search the video game industry and find HOW MANY million of people got problems with sd cards and their files.

eg. Wii, psp, DSi, PS3, 360 and more

I've seen lots of pro photographers the way they behave to their cameras.. Most of you, are not keen with ilectronics and buttons and cards.. If you see an sd card, you feel that you have to be more gentle by placing it inside your camera. And the oposite with cf cards because of the size.

Thats your mistake. All this things are sensitive and need gentle moves. Its not cf fault or camera fault. it is you.

Just be gentle with this things and they never brake.
I always watch camera labs reviews, GREAT REVIEWERS for someone who makes hes research. But my heart brakes its time I see them the way they place cards, lens in their cameras... you must start playing some video games :)... haha

[silvex]

If you think the 50D was a victim of the megapixels war what makes you think that the 60D will somehow avoid the same fate? I don't think there is any way the 60D will have any less megapixels than the 50D, in fact if its different it will probablly have more rather than less.

As far as the 50D producing P&S images compared to your XTi or any other XX body, I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that. I have heard that the 50D does require some good glass to get the most out of its higher resolution, so unless someone uses crap lenses the images should be very similar.

Most negative reports about the 50D seem to focus on noise at high ISO's especially compared to the 40D which seems to be a touch better under some testing. If you were finding the 50D noisy at ISO 100 and your XTi could produce a clean shot under identical conditions then I suspect the 50D you tried was defective.

Most of this "tests" are from poorly exposed shots. Tell me about this...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=718779

[Atlandis]

I ve seen people freaking out, in my country and others as well, for 100 iso performance. I wish I had one (or a friend with this camera) so I could speak honest about this matter (I am not risking it as I choose safe paths of buying things, always). The owners itself know better. Maybe the expectations were greater than 40ds by some and that turned them off. Who knows?

(as for the two "pure" samples as noticed) I see less noise in 40d but greater detail with 50d. ?

[mikekelley]

In terms of noise they are exactly the same. Just get a damn 50d or a 40d and stop whining about the noise, is what I have to say. Neither of them is going to be amazing at high ISO and if you really wanted good ISO 3200+ you'd get a 1dIII or 5dII...end period dot full stop.

[Optiq]

Are they ever going to come out with LOWER ISOs? There is (or was?) ISO of 25 for film. Why can't they do that with digital?

Wouldn't it be a desireable feature? I was shooting outside in bright daylight at ISO 100 and still had too much light for what I was trying to do. I asked another photographer about it and he suggested a density filter.

[kauffman v36]

on a side note: Kodak Technical Pan ISO/ASA Film produces the high quality images i have ever seen, i swear it rivals MF and LF negatives. that film was native ISO like 16 or 25 but varied with exposure and development times and procedures. i wont get into it, this is after all a digital forum, but man i could crop and enlarge that film exponentially and never see a loss in quality.

the day canon comes out with a camera that has ISO 25 and USABLE ISO 3200 i will be on it like white on rice. until then, 40D FTW!

[Atlandis]

In terms of noise they are exactly the same. Just get a damn 50d or a 40d and stop whining about the noise, is what I have to say. Neither of them is going to be amazing at high ISO and if you really wanted good ISO 3200+ you'd get a 1dIII or 5dII...end period dot full stop.


I hope this was not for me, I got 40 and 5d2 and I use them both, lovem both :p:rolleyes:

just 2 perfect cameras.. It may sound stupid for some people but after I used d300 I felt like I got a better camera (40d).. Not because the AF.. but because the noise lvl. D300 got much better AF with all this assist points.

but iq for me is more important.. and noise is not included. I may didnt got the chance to get a 50.. But I tried a d300 and a 40d wins d300 in noise lvl (its personal as I tried them both..)

40d --> very good transaction from film to digital

So if I hear things like 50d got more noise but better af and features.. It sounds to me more like a d300 with less af assist points and more mp and lens calibration. So it’s a very good camera in general.

[mikekelley]

It's for everyone, really.

[Atlandis]

I am honnest. If I ever got a gift like 50d.. I wouldnt consider my self of selling it. I love my cameras, their bad and their good, if the mother company is supportive. so all cameras for me are great!! they do their job well and produce amazing photos.

But If I have to pay for it, I do lots of research and wait a bit for the first reviews and comments by real users.

[ThomasOwenM]

In terms of noise they are exactly the same. Just get a damn 50d or a 40d and stop whining about the noise, is what I have to say. Neither of them is going to be amazing at high ISO and if you really wanted good ISO 3200+ you'd get a 1dIII or 5dII...end period dot full stop.

I feel I get very good ISO 3200 performance on my 20D if I get the exposure right. I'm thinking of renting both a 40D and a 50D so that I can compare their performance. I've heard conflicting reports. Some say the 40D outperforms the 50 at high ISO. Others say they're the same. I need to get to the truth since high ISO performance is of paramount importance to me and I don't believe I can find a way to afford a 5D or 1D.

If the 40D does outperform the 50, then that's the one I need to get, other features be damned.

[kauffman v36]

the problem with all this confusion is the MP. the 40D has better noise because of lower MP, plain and simple IMO. 50D however has more MP and cropability. after using t-max 3200 i am perfectly fine with 3200 on my 40D

[silvex]

the problem with all this confusion is the MP. the 40D has better noise because of lower MP, plain and simple IMO. 50D however has more MP and cropability. after using t-max 3200 i am perfectly fine with 3200 on my 40D

Not much of a difference, unless pixel peeping. The IQ of the 50D it is WAY better. I just bought a 50D from a 40D and the 50D it is a much better body. The accurate AF is WAY faster and better than 40D.

[mikekelley]

the problem with all this confusion is the MP. the 40D has better noise because of lower MP, plain and simple IMO.


This is just incorrect....as silvex points out

[kauffman v36]

what i meant to say was "perceived" noise levels. and yes, just at pixel peeping. however, i stand by my opinion that the "perceived" noise levels of the 40d appear lower than that of the 50d. and from what ive seen and used, both bodies, at normal viewing size i see little to no improvement in IQ. what the 50d does is keep the great IQ of the 40d while icnreasing the size to 15mp, a feat in itself.

[westernminnguy]

Obviously the 60D is coming. The question is when?

The camera is going to have video...my guess and hopefully with at least a 1/8" audio plug in.

Any rumors out there?

:D

[sangosimo]

I was bored and thinking about the 60d/7d

does ef only, aps-h sensor, 17.1 megapixels, 6.5fps, 1080p 24fps, max iso 12800, and non pro body sound plausible? I guess this would be more 7d than 60d.

[Skippy29]

Tons.

Official announcement probably around Aug 25th. Serious specs leaked later on this month.

Or not.

[mikekelley]

xxD will be 1.6 crop for a very long time.

[slitherjef]

When it gets here? :lol:
Actualy I am kind of waiting to see what the next XXD series camera will have to offer. Will it even be called a 60D?

Then there could be a 3D or 7D which would be a APS-H sized sensor (1.3 crop)

[tkbslc]

Canon needs a D300 spanker. Lets hope it isn't just a 50D with video. Plenty of people want a pro-spec crop camera.

[nuffi]

Canon needs a D300 spanker. Lets hope it isn't just a 50D with video. Plenty of people want a pro-spec crop camera.


Won't the next pro-spec crop camera be a 1dIV?


Or are you talking about all the people who want a pro-spec camera for $280?

:rolleyes:

[tkbslc]

Won't the next pro-spec crop camera be a 1dIV?


Or are you talking about all the people who want a pro-spec camera for $280?

:rolleyes:

crop as in 1.6x or 1.5x like the D300 I referenced, but thanks for the eye-roll.

1.3x has always been a bit expensive for most.

[Tom Reichner]

Won't the next pro-spec crop camera be a 1dIV?

No, I don't believe it will. I believe the next pro-spec crop body will be a continuation of the 20/30/40/50 D series, as the OP suggests.

I'm not sure where the $280 figure comes from. A 60D would likely retail for between $1600 and $2000.

[George.ML]

Or are you talking about all the people who want a pro-spec camera for $280?

:rolleyes:

Pro-spec camera for $1800 - like the D300, for example.
The D300 has been on the marker for what - 2 year now?
And yet some people still roll eyes when Canon users ask for the same.
:eyes

[eddiebrown]

on a side note: Kodak Technical Pan ISO/ASA Film produces the high quality images i have ever seen, i swear it rivals MF and LF negatives. that film was native ISO like 16 or 25 but varied with exposure and development times and procedures. i wont get into it, this is after all a digital forum, but man i could crop and enlarge that film exponentially and never see a loss in quality.

the day canon comes out with a camera that has ISO 25 and USABLE ISO 3200 i will be on it like white on rice. until then, 40D FTW!



+1 .

[Atlandis]

In Greece and other, very sunny countrys and studio photography would be nice 25 iso!! But I cant imagine anything else.. except that.

surelly the crystal IQ of the images will be superb combined with CANON glass. :)

[BEphoto]

Check out some info here. (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-12792-Dallas-Photo-Technology-Examiner~y2009m7d13-Canon-60D-possibly-on-the-horizon)

Rumors for now, but it definitely doesnt sound out of the realm of possibility.

[sry407]

Why would they go 1.3x crop? Doesn't anyone else think this will some people wanting to upgrade from the XXD series in limbo if they have some EF-S lenses? Otherwise, it sounds like a nice camera...minus that price tag, yeesh.

[BEphoto]

Why would they go 1.3x crop? Doesn't anyone else think this will some people wanting to upgrade from the XXD series in limbo if they have some EF-S lenses? Otherwise, it sounds like a nice camera...minus that price tag, yeesh.

That one threw me for a loop as well. Im wondering if it would have anything to do with the 1D AF system integration, but i dont really see how sensor size and AF are directly connected. The original post i saw for this was on Canonrumors.com, btw.

[laychengjin]

Unless they made some changes with the mirror so it wont hit EF-S Lens.. then it should be fine.

[postcardcv]

Looks like total twaddle, there's no way that Canon are going to put the 1D AF system in an xxD body and I would be stunned if they moved to a larger sensor.

[jam51]

This story is lifted directly from CR yesterday http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/07/canon-eos-60d7d-aps-h-cr1/

[FlexiPack]

The story is also on photorumours.com also. It's looking a strongly back rumour at the moment. Apart from the price it would be a sure fire winner in my book.

The larger sensor (and maybe the 12.1mp instead of 15mp) would alleviate my worries about the ever increasing diffraction limited by aperture on the APS-C sensors. That autofocus would be the muts nuts as well

[DDWD10]

IMO, the switch to 1.3x crop is wishful thinking. All of Canon's excellent EF-S lenses like the 10-22mm, 17-55mm IS, 60mm Macro, etc would either not work or show nasty vignetting on a 1.3x crop sensor. I doubt there is a huge market for these pricier EF-S optics among Digital Rebel users, so why would they abandon them with the xxD line?

[FlexiPack]

True, if there is no way an APS-H sensor can be compatible with EF-S lenses then it could be a big gamble, enough to put Canon off putting an APS-H inside the 60D. But Canon do need to do something, they can't just stick another 15mp APS-C inside there, tweak the autofocus and hope for a huge sales increase over the 50D. They've got to do something new, market leading. It'll take some balls but if they did it I reckon it would be a huge success. If they can do similar to the Nikon solution of DX crop on FX bodies to allow compatibility with EF-S lenses then I think that would satisfy a lot of peoples worries over that aspect. It would mine, though having said that a total lack of support for EF-S on the 60D would not stop me personally from buying it but I realise that wouldn't be the case with everyone

[jerrythesnake]

hell , i reckon canon have enough cameras for the efs line of lenses , seems a nice idea to me.

[joedlh]

[Yawn]

People who get excited about rumors need to go out and do something. It seems to me that they're always 99% wrong.

Furthermore, just because several sources posted the same rumor doesn't make it more likely to be true. They probably all came from the same source, which probably wasn't a Canon leak. Sort of like the rumor of Jeff Goldblum's demise off a cliff in New Zealand.

[BEphoto]

[Yawn]

People who get excited about rumors need to go out and do something. It seems to me that they're always 99% wrong.

Furthermore, just because several sources posted the same rumor doesn't make it more likely to be true. They probably all came from the same source, which probably wasn't a Canon leak. Sort of like the rumor of Jeff Goldblum's demise off a cliff in New Zealand.

Wait, Goldblum isn't dead??

[joedlh]

Wait, Goldblum isn't dead??

Nope. But Michael Jackson is, in spite of multiple rumors of people witnessing his apparition.

[Marshal.F]

Just a question, how accurate were the 50d rumors, and the 5dmkII rumors?

[jerrythesnake]

quote=joedlh;8278807][Yawn]

People who get excited about rumors need to go out and do something. It seems to me that they're always 99% wrong.

Furthermore, just because several sources posted the same rumor doesn't make it more likely to be true. They probably all came from the same source, which probably wasn't a Canon leak. Sort of like the rumor of Jeff Goldblum's demise off a cliff in New Zealand.[/quote]




yawn, we get so tired of these replies, maybe dont read the rumour forum , take your own advise and do something else[. this is the idea of the rumour forum, hey its for RUMOURS

[George.ML]

Just a question, how accurate were the 50d rumors, and the 5dmkII rumors?

One month before the 50D announcement last year, there were persistent rumors that the 40D successor would be equipped with a 15mp sensor.

For the 5DII, nobody really expected 21mp.

In general, every time the xxD line is due for an update, there are rumors and speculations that Canon will ‘upgrade’ the sensor to 1.3x – and this has never happened.

What’s different this year, though, is the persistency of the rumors that the 1.3x sensor is not going away and that Canon will use it in the 1D4 and a new prosumer camera.

[Marshal.F]

Yeah on canon rumors there calling it the Canon "3d".

[FlexiPack]

Thinking about it.. If Canon did go with a APS-H 12.1 sensor in the 60D, it would leave quite a gap (price wise and spec wise) between that and the 500D. Canon might see that as too big of a gap.

Maybe the 60D will be the bog standard 15mp APS-C affair that was originially rumoured and maybe Canon are lining up a separate APS-H 12.1 camera.

Just a thought

[DStanic]

*only* 12.1mp in a larger sized sensor, doesn't make sense to me ???

I understand that's what the D300 is, but wouldn't having MORE mp make sense then simply matching it? 15mp just seems like the new standard number (50d, T1i).

The new versions of 1D/1Ds will be 22+mp so it's not like it will be stepping on their toes.

I do like the idea of a larger sensor though, it would be nice to have clean ISO6400 in a "cheap" camera.

[bsmotril]

Why would they go 1.3x crop? Doesn't anyone else think this will some people wanting to upgrade from the XXD series in limbo if they have some EF-S lenses? Otherwise, it sounds like a nice camera...minus that price tag, yeesh.

Bigger sensor allows for bigger photosites with near same megapixels which makes for much less noise at high ISOs.

[Patrick-70]

It looks like a nice camera with pro-features from the 1D/Ds line ... I have problems to believe that canon will offer these spec on a xxD body ; but there is a gap between the 1D and a 50D ; a new camera (3 or 7D) could fill the gap and compete with a D300. This camera would be a "mini 1D" a bit like the 5D is a "mini 1Ds".

[Optiq]

They ought to do it (1.3 sensor) because it seems (to Canon and the critics, at least) that the 50D didn't show marked improvement over the 40D. To make a big splash, they're going to need to do something. HD video and a 1.3 sensor would be "something" for sure.

[sry407]

Bigger sensor allows for bigger photosites with near same megapixels which makes for much less noise at high ISOs.

bsmotril,
Good point, but I'll take the plunge and ask a dumb question. Anyone think they will make a line of special lenses for a 1.3 crop, like the 1.6 has the EF-S series?

Just curious...

[DennisW1]

Check out some info here. (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-12792-Dallas-Photo-Technology-Examiner%7Ey2009m7d13-Canon-60D-possibly-on-the-horizon)

Rumors for now, but it definitely doesnt sound out of the realm of possibility.



Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[DDWD10]

bsmotril,
Good point, but I'll take the plunge and ask a dumb question. Anyone think they will make a line of special lenses for a 1.3 crop, like the 1.6 has the EF-S series?

Just curious...

It would be a tremendous expense to roll out a new line of 1.3x crop lenses. That's exactly why I don't see the xxD line going 1.3x crop. Who then would buy their excellent high-end EF-S lenses? 95% of all Digital Rebels I see have the kit lens mounted.

I think the 60D will stick with the 15.1 MP 1.6x crop sensor. Unfortunately, Canon has dug themselves a hole with this sensor. It would be marketing suicide to reduce the resolution for the 60D, high ISO benefits aside.

[Jared Byer]

They ought to do it (1.3 sensor) because it seems (to Canon and the critics, at least) that the 50D didn't show marked improvement over the 40D. To make a big splash, they're going to need to do something. HD video and a 1.3 sensor would be "something" for sure.

The 50D didn't have noise improvment over 40D, but it had a huge number of pixels added. On a 60D they might keep pixele number the same and add more noise reduction at high ISO.

[Biker010]

I've really been thinking about this lately, as I'm in the market for my first DSLR.
Basically I'm trying to choose between the D300 and the 50/60D..
it seems that the Nikon has taken the right route with 12MP, as the 50D has shown 15MP is too much for a crop sensor. So now I'm waiting to see what happens with the 60D, the way I see it they have 4 choises:

A) move to the 1.3x sensor - If they do then I'm getting a Canon!
B) move back to 12MP - Political suicide but they really ought to if they want to catch Nikon's ISO performance
C) stay as they are and add processing for the noise - Don't like that idea at all (ie buy a Nikon)
D) Change the laws of physics - could be tricky that one....

I'm voting for A, but what they actually do is anyones guess.
I'd really like to go with a Canon for the lenses, but if they bring out another 15MP crop sensor without any real inprovements it looks like I'll be paying out the extra $'s for a Nikon.
I'll keep an eye out to see what happens!

[sry407]

I've really been thinking about this lately, as I'm in the market for my first DSLR.
Basically I'm trying to choose between the D300 and the 50/60D..
it seems that the Nikon has taken the right route with 12MP, as the 50D has shown 15MP is too much for a crop sensor. So now I'm waiting to see what happens with the 60D, the way I see it they have 4 choises:

A) move to the 1.3x sensor - If they do then I'm getting a Canon!
B) move back to 12MP - Political suicide but they really ought to if they want to catch Nikon's ISO performance
C) stay as they are and add processing for the noise - Don't like that idea at all (ie buy a Nikon)
D) Change the laws of physics - could be tricky that one....

I'm voting for A, but what they actually do is anyones guess.
I'd really like to go with a Canon for the lenses, but if they bring out another 15MP crop sensor without any real inprovements it looks like I'll be paying out the extra $'s for a Nikon.
I'll keep an eye out to see what happens!

How about
E) Buy a 40D & sink your money into Canons lenses

[gcflora]

+1 regarding the 40d

[gcflora]

I've really been thinking about this lately, as I'm in the market for my first DSLR.
Basically I'm trying to choose between the D300 and the 50/60D..
it seems that the Nikon has taken the right route with 12MP, as the 50D has shown 15MP is too much for a crop sensor. So now I'm waiting to see what happens with the 60D, the way I see it they have 4 choises:

A) move to the 1.3x sensor - If they do then I'm getting a Canon!
B) move back to 12MP - Political suicide but they really ought to if they want to catch Nikon's ISO performance
C) stay as they are and add processing for the noise - Don't like that idea at all (ie buy a Nikon)
D) Change the laws of physics - could be tricky that one....

I'm voting for A, but what they actually do is anyones guess.
I'd really like to go with a Canon for the lenses, but if they bring out another 15MP crop sensor without any real inprovements it looks like I'll be paying out the extra $'s for a Nikon.
I'll keep an eye out to see what happens!

You raise some good points and (A) is the best solution in my eyes. (B) I think is unlikely unfortunately. (C) is not a real solution... I prefer to process noise myself; I'd hate for Canon to introduce noise reduction in-camera for RAW. (D) yeah they can't change physics, so hopefully they realise that a 1.3 sensor or a smaller (pixels) and improved sensor that is in the 50D is the way to go. I don't have my results here but I did some calculations on the 50D sensor back when the 50D first came out, and that sensor is already pushing the boundaries of physics.

[BEEEsH]

2 things that will for sure = the failure of the 50D successor:

1. ISO performance. If it isn't at least as good as the d300, its a failure. (especially if its because of the addition of more MP)
2. AF design / performance. They need to break out their 1d focusing system and use it in their next semi-pro model. Nikon did it for the the 300/700; its about time Canon took their cameras seriously.

[bsmotril]

2 things that will for sure = the failure of the 50D successor:

1. ISO performance. If it isn't at least as good as the d300, its a failure. (especially if its because of the addition of more MP)
2. AF design / performance. They need to break out their 1d focusing system and use it in their next semi-pro model. Nikon did it for the the 300/700; its about time Canon took their cameras seriously.

I could not agree with you more on both of these points. I only hope Canon is getting the same message from their marketing guys whom I fear have taken over running the show there.

[bsmotril]

+1 regarding the 40d

Only if they stick the the hi res LCD on the back. It makes a huge difference in day to day usage of the camera in my opinion having owned both at the same time.

[Patrick-70]

I think I have an explanation for the relative success of the 40D compare to the 50D. Lots of people like myself choose to upgrade their XT/350D with a 40D. The 350D was one of the cheapest DSLR ever made at a time when DSLR was still not common. These people, like myself were not going to change their camera 12 months later ... for a similar spec camera. The same can probably be said for 10/20/30D users.

If I remember right, Canon was also disappointed to see that their 40D was not selling as good as the D300 ... so canon released the 50D.

The D300 is selling well because it's a good camera ; it's also a camera designed for serious amateur / semi pro photographers. The 40D/50D is not as good but everyone can use it ... even novice amateur photographers (with big hands) can use it.

For my next camera, I'm looking for better AF and IQ.

[EVANDIXONdotCOM]

I keep checking these threads hoping to miraculously get some kind of solid info on the 60D. I have an XTi, and I am ready to upgrade to XXD, and I want to wait on the 60D to come out so I am not kicking myself for not waiting a few more months when i buy a 40D or 50D (because i would have liked the 60D better, and/or could have gotten the older models cheaper after its release).

I want XXD for better ISO performance, higher fps, better AF, bigger scree, and yes, VIDEO. I see a lot of people ragging on people for wanting video capability in the 60D, or emphasizing how important it is to them. Yes, i do realize you can buy a camcorder, but I had a chance to use a friends Nikon D90 and the stuff you can do with SLR lenses and HD video is amazing. Its becoming the standard in dSLRs, obviously, to have HD video, and to those opposing it, i say you just get over it :) I know if you only want to use your SLR for taking pictures, then it is of no benefit to you to have HD video capability, but to me complaining about this is like complaining about your cell phone having a built in camera because all you want to use it for is making calls. The majority of people like have cameras on their phones, and think it is a nice feature, and i feel the same about dSLRs with HD video capability.

With all that said, i can't see myself forking out the money for a T1i just for the video capability, and not much more of an upgrade, and the 5Dmk2 is out of the question because i really dont want to go full frame, and my Sigma 2.8 18-50 wouldnt work with it. So, bottom line, Canon, please hurry up. I'm getting tired of waiting.

[Optiq]

Why are we so sure a 1.3 sensor cannot be made to work with EF-S lens? It's just a mirror clearance mounting issue. If it's a NEW sensor on a NEW body, and not the one they used in that other model (10D or something?), then it should work, no?

[Patrick-70]

it can be done : how to adapt an EF-S 10-22mm on a 1D mk iii camera :
http://www.flickr.com/groups/canondslr/discuss/72157604422834954/?search=lemon

[Marshal.F]

So it is possible! So canon could possible put a 1.3x sensor in the 60d and still be able to use ef-s lenses, they would just have to adjust the mirror placement it seems.

[District_History_Fan]

I have no idea what the 60D will end up being. What I do know is that I'm approaching a dead end with Canon and my 40D if they don't kick out the stops and design an industry leading camera in the 60D.

Weathersealing, pro AF, lower noise at high ISO, and better overall IQ would be nice. I like my 40D and skipped the 50D because it went in a direction I didn't care for (more mp), other than the new LCD and micro adjust.

[District_History_Fan]

Not much of a difference, unless pixel peeping. The IQ of the 50D it is WAY better. I just bought a 50D from a 40D and the 50D it is a much better body. The accurate AF is WAY faster and better than 40D.

That's interesting since they spec the same...

[Bill Boehme]

That's interesting since they spec the same...

Well, the hardware is basically the same EXCEPT for the Digic IV processor in the 50D. The predictive AF in the AI Servo mode of the 50D works better, probably because of the processor's faster operation.

[hollis_f]

I have no idea what the 60D will end up being. What I do know is that I'm approaching a dead end with Canon and my 40D if they don't kick out the stops and design an industry leading camera in the 60D.

Weathersealing, pro AF, lower noise at high ISO, and better overall IQ would be nice.

Good news, that's exactly the specs of the new camera you've been looking for. Only you got the name wrong, it's not the 60D, it's the 1D MkIII.

[District_History_Fan]

Good news, that's exactly the specs of the new camera you've been looking for. Only you got the name wrong, it's not the 60D, it's the 1D MkIII.

Or the D300... ;) I hope to stay with Canon, but they need to get the 60D right.

[Biker010]

How about
E) Buy a 40D & sink your money into Canons lenses

Well, as I said I don't have a system at the moment, so either way looks just as good... but Canon seem to make great lenses for cheaper (and lenses are the expensive part) so I may get a 40D. I just don't want to buy into Canon if they don't improve the bodies. On the other hand the D300 is definately a better body, but it does cost more. When I see the 60D I'll make a desicion, the 60D could be either amazing, or a massive dissapointment.

With some luck Canon will go for a combination of my options A&B, 1.3 Crop sensor with 12MP, the maths would say that the IQ and ISO performance would match the 5DII, just at a lower resolution (exactly what I'm looking for). What are the chances though??

[adsayer]

10D -> 20D
Large improvement

20D -> 30D
small improvement

30D -> 40D
large improvement

40D -> 50D
small improvement (based on general opinion, not mine)

50D -> 60D
past trends suggest large improvement???

[silvex]

That's interesting since they spec the same...

change a PC with same specs ...and upgrade the CPU. In this case DIGI III to DIGI IV

[Saxi]

I think that his point was that the 60D will be a much more significant reason for upgrading from the 40D. The needs/wants of the 40D owner may also have been a part of the recommendation.

BTW, I was all but ready to buy a 50D within the next few days so I rented one for a day for a thorough check-out. It's image quality really threw cold water on my enthusiasm. While it has a number of great features that met my needs, my overall impression is that the 50D is one of the victims of the megapixel war. In order to one-up the competition on number of sensor megapixels, I think that all of the manufacturers (mainly Canon and Nikon) are trading off noise performance for more MP. Especially at high ISO, I felt that the images looked too much like P&S images WRT color and detail smearing regardless of the RAW converter used. Even at ISO 100, the dark areas of images looked grainy with a lot of chroma noise. My personal opinion is that my XTi produces cleaner and sharper images at low ISO and the high ISO noise cleaned up better with Neat Image than it does on the 50D which seems to maintain residual noise.

I agree, the 50D has never impressed me with noise, even 200-400 ISO I have noticed noise. It isn't really bad and I can take some nice images with mine, I love the functions, but I was really taken by the amount of noise the 50D produces. I came from a Rebel XTi so it was a huge jump for me in other areas. I've told to a few people locally who have owned the 40D and 50D and a majority of them agree the noise is more significant in the 50D. I can't wait to see what the 60D brings, but I really think my next step is a 5D II as I want another step or two for noise.

[Saxi]

I'll make up my own rumors to finish off this thread.

60D will have the following changes.

ISO will support 10-100,000
there will be 98 AF points, while having an additional 50 in the center hidden
It will have 60 MP to put a stake in the ground on MP.
To conserve space for the MP sensor, it will use Mini-SD
The sensor will be a 3x crop, new lenses will come out that will be 5-8mm to make up for it.
And finally, there will only be one more, A-Def

[Bill Boehme]

I'll make up my own rumors to finish off this thread.

60D will have the following changes.

ISO will support 10-100,000
there will be 98 AF points, while having an additional 50 in the center hidden
It will have 60 MP to put a stake in the ground on MP.
To conserve space for the MP sensor, it will use Mini-SD
The sensor will be a 3x crop, new lenses will come out that will be 5-8mm to make up for it.
And finally, there will only be one more, A-Def

All of this for under $500. :D

[CyberDyneSystems]

I'd only change it to read

20D -> 30D Zero improvement.
( Changes made to ergonomics and menus only, shoudl have been called the "20Dn" as the changes were virtually identical to those implemented in the MkII Vs. MkIIn )

10D -> 20D
Large improvement

20D -> 30D
small improvement

30D -> 40D
large improvement

40D -> 50D
small improvement (based on general opinion, not mine)

50D -> 60D
past trends suggest large improvement???

[adsayer]

I didn't want to be rude about the 30D :D

[HaroldC3]

I think alot of people are expecting the 60D to be the D300 killer with video too. I'm not sure Canon will deliver based on past trends but who knows. I can hope for a surprise.

[Saxi]

I think alot of people are expecting the 60D to be the D300 killer with video too. I'm not sure Canon will deliver based on past trends but who knows. I can hope for a surprise.

I could really care less about video, I want IQ/ISO Noise Performance/AF. I have an HV30 for video and more than happy with it.

[ThomasOwenM]

I'd only change it to read

20D -> 30D Zero improvement.
( Changes made to ergonomics and menus only, shoudl have been called the "20Dn" as the changes were virtually identical to those implemented in the MkII Vs. MkIIn )

I wouldn't say zero improvement. The 30D does have a larger LCD screen and between ISOs (such as ISO 1000).

[gscreely]

IMO, the switch to 1.3x crop is wishful thinking. All of Canon's excellent EF-S lenses like the 10-22mm, 17-55mm IS, 60mm Macro, etc would either not work or show nasty vignetting on a 1.3x crop sensor. I doubt there is a huge market for these pricier EF-S optics among Digital Rebel users, so why would they abandon them with the xxD line?

Doesn't Nikon have a crop type setting that allows them to use Nikons version of EFs lens on there full frames?

[HaroldC3]

Why are we so sure a 1.3 sensor cannot be made to work with EF-S lens? It's just a mirror clearance mounting issue. If it's a NEW sensor on a NEW body, and not the one they used in that other model (10D or something?), then it should work, no?

Could be a vignetting issue too. I personally haven't tried an EF-S lens on a 1.3x crop though.

[TylerCP]

I am sure there is a 70D coming out soon too.

By the way, tech specs aside, lets hope the 60D or whatever the name, has better high iso performance than the 40D as the 50D missed on that one.

[TylerCP]

Doesn't Nikon have a crop type setting that allows them to use Nikons version of EFs lens on there full frames?

Yes sir, Nikon D3 and D700 and D3x will accept DX lenses but use only 1.5 of the sensor. You also see the effected crop field in the viewfinder via shaded areas. Very good idea.

[RWatkins]

10D -> 20D
Large improvement

20D -> 30D
small improvement

30D -> 40D
large improvement

40D -> 50D
small improvement (based on general opinion, not mine)

50D -> 60D
past trends suggest large improvement???

Kind of reminds me of Intels tick-tock strategy

http://www.intel.com/technology/tick-tock/index.htm

[Sauk]

$1,999 dollars! Do these camera companies know we are in a recession and money is tight? Do they actually want to sell their product?

[carlitotan]

and now nikon has a new D300s,to be anounce end of this month

[Optiq]

I am sure there is a 70D coming out soon too.



YIKES! Don't even JOKE like that! I think this board would just explode and spew burnt, gooey mess all over the Internet!

[carlitotan]

Canon needs a D300 spanker. Lets hope it isn't just a 50D with video. Plenty of people want a pro-spec crop camera.

it wont be spanking the D300 no more,coz nikon will be announcing D300s by end of the month.

[Marshal.F]

Well what some are saying is that Canon is waiting for Nikon to announce the
D300s, then they will announce the 60D/7D/3D/whatever it's name is, and slap Nikon in the face with it. But again its just a rumor.

[connexile]

It seems like the d300s will be announced on July 30th and it`s basically a d300 with video. So Canon may announce the 60d immediately after that in august.


Nikon D300s and Nikon D3000 are now confirmed for July 30th announcement (European time). That means that all Nikon websites will be updated on July 29th around midnight (US Eastern time). The NR rating system is at 99.99% for that rumor.

http://nikonrumors.com/



http://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/nikon-d300s-dslr-camera.jpg (http://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/nikon-d300s-dslr-camera.jpg)

[DL.Photography]

Will canon really make the 60D a 1.3X? I would think its very unlikely as they will probably keep the APC-H sensors for the 1D Series no?

[connexile]

Will canon really make the 60D a 1.3X? I would think its very unlikely as they will probably keep the APC-H sensors for the 1D Series no?


Canon has to get rid of the aps-h sensor in the 1d and move on the full frame sooner or later. Otherwise there is no way it can compete with the d3.

an aps-h sensor in a xxd would be sweet though.

[DL.Photography]

Canon has to get rid of the aps-h sensor in the 1d and move on the full frame sooner or later. Otherwise there is no way it can compete with the d3.

an aps-h sensor in a xxd would be sweet though.

I agree. I wonder if EF-S Lenses would still work with the APS-H sensor. I know it does not fit on a 1D Series without modification, but would it fit on our speculated 60D equipped w/ a APS-H sensor?

[donysy]

I really expect canon will release a new xxD camera with 5D mk II image and high ISO quality, more AF points with jog dial, fast AF as 50D, and NO VIDEO, so the price would be much lower than 5DmkII.

[DL.Photography]

I really expect canon will release a new xxD camera with 5D mk II image and high ISO quality, more AF points with jog dial, fast AF as 50D, and NO VIDEO, so the price would be much lower than 5DmkII.

I hope you are right about the ISO, AF points etc. But I think the video is definitely going to be there.

[Brianbar]

It would be nice if it had the HDR feature, like the new Pentax K7.

Brian

[NicolasRubio]

Canon needs to make the following moves ASAP!

1) 1D Mark IV to be FF. In case it remains APS-H it should fire at least 14fps.
2) Get the 1D AF outside the 1D Series as Nikon did with the D3's AF by putting it in both the D300 and the D700.

[timbop]

Canon needs to make the following moves ASAP!

1) 1D Mark IV to be FF. In case it remains APS-H it should fire at least 14fps.
2) Get the 1D AF outside the 1D Series as Nikon did with the D3's AF by putting it in both the D300 and the D700.

Neither has snowball's chance of happening....

[Thunderbird33]

Canon needs to make the following moves ASAP!

1) 1D Mark IV to be FF. In case it remains APS-H it should fire at least 14fps.
2) Get the 1D AF outside the 1D Series as Nikon did with the D3's AF by putting it in both the D300 and the D700.

I think some kind of combination of what might be a 60d and 5D Mark III would be the most ideal!

[j00sten]

Canon needs to make the following moves ASAP!

1) 1D Mark IV to be FF. In case it remains APS-H it should fire at least 14fps.
2) Get the 1D AF outside the 1D Series as Nikon did with the D3's AF by putting it in both the D300 and the D700.

1. If it was full frame it would be the 1Ds Mk IV. That is expected to be released some time next year. For the 1D Mk IV fps, it probably won't go to 14 fps due to the physical limitations of the shutter mechanism. And seriously, why would you need 14 fps? I have yet to hear any professional complaining about the need for that much fps. Spray and pray much?

2. While I would like to see something like that too, it'll never happen. It'll dilute your market, reducing the people who would be willing to buy that AF system in a body that can utilize it. The AF system could be improved somewhat, but I don't think it's gonna see that kind of move from Canon.

[NicolasRubio]

1. If it was full frame it would be the 1Ds Mk IV. That is expected to be released some time next year. For the 1D Mk IV fps, it probably won't go to 14 fps due to the physical limitations of the shutter mechanism. And seriously, why would you need 14 fps? I have yet to hear any professional complaining about the need for that much fps. Spray and pray much?

Not that much of a need, but what will they upgrade from the Mk III if not? Stupid megapixels and the already fixed AF?

FF or APS-H is not why it is called just 1D, but the functions as a whole. The D3 is FF, as is the D3X. Canon should start following Nikon ASAP!

Nevertheless, I think that it is more probable that Nikon releases a 70-200mm f/4 VR than Canon doing what I said. In that case, I'll switch.

2. While I would like to see something like that too, it'll never happen. It'll dilute your market, reducing the people who would be willing to buy that AF system in a body that can utilize it. The AF system could be improved somewhat, but I don't think it's gonna see that kind of move from Canon.

It seems to be working for Nikon at least!

[timbop]

Not that much of a need, but what will they upgrade from the Mk III if not? Stupid megapixels and the already fixed AF?

FF or APS-H is not why it is called just 1D, but the functions as a whole. The D3 is FF, as is the D3X. Canon should start following Nikon ASAP!

Nevertheless, I think that it is more probable that Nikon releases a 70-200mm f/4 VR than Canon doing what I said. In that case, I'll switch.



It seems to be working for Nikon at least!

The 1d4 will be APS-H, 16MP, include video, ISO 25k, hires LCD, and probably a few minor changes. The AF will be the same from the 1d3.

Yes, the pro AF on the d300 does seem to be working for nikon. Canon won't have the guts; they view themselves as the market leader and thus don't need to make such bold moves.

[dmstraton]

In a lot of markets, Canon is no longer the market leader in DSLRs.

[zaathrus]

Maybe, but they need to feel that way before anything like this happens!

[Tom Reichner]

In a lot of markets, Canon is no longer the market leader in DSLRs.

Unfortunately, I think this is becoming more true as time goes by. Canon seems stuck on making customers but things they don't need in order to get what they do need. The poor AF on the 5D series seems to be there so that people who need better AF will have to buy a 1Ds series. The small sensor size on the 20/30/40/50 series seems to be there so that folks who want a larger sensor will have to buy a much more expensive 1D series. It seems that to some extent they attempt to manipulate the customer instead of simply giving the customer exactly what they want. In the short term, this may result in better profits, but eventually this mindset is going to turn people to other brands. Yes, if their business strategy is to focus on the short term, they certainly have the right to make decisions accordingly. It just sucks for the customers who already have a full library of Canon lenses and now wish to switch over to Nikon.

[DennisW1]

Obviously the 60D is coming. The question is when?

The camera is going to have video...my guess and hopefully with at least a 1/8" audio plug in.

Any rumors out there?

:D


Go check with Samy's Camera. They're already starting a "waiting list" for the as-yet-unannounced 1D MkIV.

Maybe you can convince them to start a second vaporware waiting list :rolleyes: