Best place to attach GPS coordinates?

[lancea]

Whenever I go off the streets, I've been taking my GPS and record a waypoint as I take a series of shots. After downloading the images, I attach the latitude and longitude in the IPTC Comment area (using BreezeBrowser Pro). This is easy to do, but I've started wondering if there is a "standard" place to store this data. A Google search found some utilities that put the coordinates in the EXIF fields, although I can't find anything that says these are "approved" field-names.

Is anyone else recording GPS information? If so, where do you put it? Note that I'm not interested in using one of the utilities. They read the downloaded-track from a GPS and associate latitude and longitude using the GPS and image times. With the small number of photos I take it's easier to manually read the waypoint information.

Thanks.

[robertwgross]

After your effort to record GPS data and attach it to the image file, what do you do with that? What datum do you attach along with Lat/Long?

When I go to my favorite national park to photograph my favorite scene, I know where the perfect spot is, and I'm not sure that I want to attach that information to some shared image file.

---Bob Gross---

[UncleDoug]

After your effort to record GPS data and attach it to the image file, what do you do with that? What datum do you attach along with Lat/Long?

When I go to my favorite national park to photograph my favorite scene, I know where the perfect spot is, and I'm not sure that I want to attach that information to some shared image file.

---Bob Gross---

Very valid concerns depending on what you are using the images for....

For example, I've been compiling 100's of QTVR's of various spots around lake Tahoe, taking note of lat/long and attaching this info to the file. From there you can use these files to add visualization to GIS based / Mapping web apps.

This would be great for the people visualy cataloging the Nat. Parks.

[Hellashot]

When I go to my favorite national park to photograph my favorite scene, I know where the perfect spot is, and I'm not sure that I want to attach that information to some shared image file.
---Bob Gross---

I agree. It's sort of "I could tell you where it was taken, but then I'd have to kill you" :)

[lancea]

Thanks for the feedback. I've got no concerns about privacy. This is a hobby, and if one day I should take a picture good enough for someone to want to emulate - then I'm flattered :)

Bob - the datum I use is WGS84 which is almost exactly equivalent to New Zealand Geodetic Model 2000. While most printed maps use a 1949 datum, that's not an issue as they are changing. The CD map I have supports multiple datum. The difference is at most 190m. I think you are probably saying that the datum needs to be included, and I agree.

But where is best? UncleDoug - are you doing this only for QuickTime?

The people who seem to have developed this concept most are cellphone users, and they are using EXIF fields. That would be awkward for me to enter as the coordinates are split into multiple fields and not as instantly readable as a simple comment.

[robertwgross]

It was once suggested that if you record the GPS Lat/Long, along with the datum, then you need to record the compass bearing that your camera was oriented to, and probably also the tilt angle above or below the horizon.

I'm too busy for that.

---Bob Gross---

[lancea]

I can work that out later from the shadows :) But yes, I can see the merit in that. What surprises me though is something that is missing at a very basic level - a time zone setting in the 20D menu. Without that, my shadow calculations won't work!

[UncleDoug]

Only for QuicktimeVR's now...
I do keep GPS coordinates for those "secret spots" Bob was referring to...... :D

[Turbowolf]

I also attach the GPS info, but in my case it's for a long term project. I have slowly been re-photographing the Glaciers of Mount Rainier, in order to do a photo survey of the melting. I have been lucky enough to locate and use some of the 'exact' spot the F. Vetch used from the 50's through the 70's.

Knowing my exact distance from the glacier, lens length, and other arcane mathemagical knowledge allows for a determination of area of melt/glacial snow loss when compared to previous images.

Anyway, that's what I use the GPS datum for, so maybe in 30 years somebody else will take over where I leave off, that is, if the glaciers are still here...

[lancea]

Interesting. Do you put the GPS info into EXIF fields or IPTC? Those old GPS units of the 50s must have been a pain to carry to a glacier :)

When I flew out of Seattle about 3 years ago I got a perfect view of Mt Rainier. Most impressive mountain I've seen (except for the ones in New Zealand of course!). Sadly my camera was in the overhead locker, but I still have the memory.

[cjwagner]

I have been trying a program called Exifer and I notoced that in the export command it has spaces for Lat, Lon, altitude, along with many other fields. I have yet to find where these 'items' are located in the jpg or how to edit them or even if they are in a 'standard format' By using the timestamp and running matches I can get a 'kinda' close reading. it would be nice to dump the info directly onto the jpg huh?

using a geko201 and a canon rebelxt

Chris

[Poco]

I bought a GPS earlier this year for the sole purpose of recording every picture I take. It is just like all that other useless information in your Exif headers - you might care some day.

Yes, there are GPS fields in the JPEG Exif header. There are even some cameras that have a built-in GPS and write the data directly into the header. I believe even some camera phones do this. I used exiftool once to try writing the GPS data into a CR2 file and, while it was written correctly and the that tool could read the data back out of the file, none of the converters I tried saved that data in the JPEG Exif.

Check out wwmx.org (run by Microsoft no less). They have an online database where you can upload your photos and view them in a clunky interface. I don't use their client viewer as it is a bit ugly and their web interface is very slow. However, they have a couple of VERY USEFUL tools. Specifically the "Track Downloader" and "Location Stamper". The track downloader will simply download your GPS track to a file on your computer (a GPX file which is an XML based "standard" GPS file format). The holy grail, however, is the Location Stamper. It loads a GPX file and your photos and, based on the timestamp in the GPS track log and the timestamp of your photos (and assuming that both clocks are the same) it will stamp the location into the Exif header. You should make a backup of your images since it does seem to erase some camera specific Exif data. Most recently I have been keeping the GPS track log but not stamping the photo until I need to.

Ever since Google released the API for Google Maps I have been working (infrequently) on a Google Map that can show Photos and GPS data. It still needs a lot of work, but you can get the idea.

This shows a Google Map with some photos and waypoints in Australia.
http://www.okuda.ca/googlemaps/viewgpx.php?gpxfile=photo.xml

It can show tracks, waypoints, and photos (which are just fancy waypoints).

My end goal is to be able to hook this up with a web gallery server side so that the GPS data is extracted when I upload the photos and can automatically be displayed in a Google Map.

Of course, if you don't want to wait for me :) then I just found a site today that does exactly what I want to do (which makes my goal seem a bit redundant). http://www.zoto.com/users/geotags/dist/

[kheops]

hi,
i wonder now if there is a program to insert latitude/longitude in a jpeg which does NOT already have these infos embedded, and i don't have these track logs files you're talking about
let's say i remember where a photo was taken, i find the coordinates thanks to google earth, how do i insert them ?
many thanks

[Poco]

The "Location Stamper" at http://wwmx.org (Check the download page) will allow you to bind the location even without a GPS. Just load the photo, navigate to the correct location in the map and drag the photo to the location where it was taken. More info here http://wwmx.org/Help.aspx

BTW, it is just a coincidence that I responded so quickly. I just happened to be online at 1:30am with nothing better to do ;-)

On a side note, I haven't gone any further on my work in this area. The only thing I have done recently is hacked my MG2 photo gallery (http://www.minigal.dk/) and added the Exif data to include a link to Google Maps (generated by parsing the GPS data out of the exif). http://www.okuda.ca/gallery/index.php?id=78

My next plan is to make something like the wwmx Location Stamper but as a server application that will add this information after I upload them to my MG2 gallery (Maybe a MG2 plugin of some sort). I don't mind adding it to the Exif once the file is on the server since I still have the original, but if all else fails, I can store it in the server DB so I don't have to touch the photo at all. I just wish I had more time to work on this stuff. I still carry my GPS in my camera bag and always have it on when I am taking photos.

[kheops]

Poco, thanks for your answer
i was reluctant to install the .net framework, but since it seems that the "Location Stamper" is one of the best tool, i've tried it
on my original photo, part of the exif (as shown in irfan view) is :

Make - Canon
Model - Canon EOS 350D DIGITAL

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Contrast - High , +1
Saturation - High , +1
Sharpness - High , +1
Focal length - 70 - 200 mm

which is RIGHT, i've used my beloved 70-200

then, after appying the gps coordinates i have :

Make - Canon
Model - Canon EOS 350D DIGITAL
GPSInfo - 9238

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Contrast - High , +3
Saturation - High , +2
Sharpness - Normal
Focal length - 0 - 320 mm

which is WRONG, 1.6x applied or not, my 70-200 still doesn't start at 0mm...

i think that you want, as i do, keep exif intact and accurate after applying a change, gps or not
even if i know that the makernotes fields aren't easy to handle, i think that "Location Stamper" isn't the soft i want :(

please tell me if i've made something wrong

best

[Poco]

No, I think what you are seeing is the original reason I avoid stamping my originals. It doesn't handle the makernote fields very well. For the postings I've done I don't care much about that info so I am okay to lose it, but it is unfortunate. Perhaps it would be worth sending a note to wwmx about this, though, as you can tell, nothing has really happened on that site in about a year.

Like I said, I would like to write a (probably web) app that can create a single entry. Either a single .gpx xml file with one "waypoint" indicating the location of the photo (then I can view it with my existing google maps .gpx viewer), or a MySQL database entry in my gallery so I can add the google maps link. I just don't ever seem to have the time. My problem is that I think I know how to do it with google maps and xml so I don't have enough interest in doing it (if that makes any sense). I find much more time for the things that I think are likely to be difficult.

Also, I can't be bothered with a real application, though I suppose with .NET it should be possible to do as a stand alone app with an embedded web browser. I would have to learn a lot to do that... now I'm interested :-)

When I get time...

[kheops]

Poco someone at microsoft is now aware of the problem, i've just emailed two pictures showing what the problem is
+

[Poco]

On a related note, I have finally posted some information about a couple of GPS web projects that I have been working on. They are not yet complete, but you get the idea.

The first describes my Google Maps based GPX file viewer. Written 100% in Javascript. I have not officially posted the code, but it isn't hard to extract. I will be posting the full code and details soon.
http://notions.okuda.ca/2006/03/10/google-maps-gpx-viewer/

The second is details about modifications I made to the MG2 Photo Gallery to show the location of a GeoTagged photo in Google Maps.
http://notions.okuda.ca/2006/03/10/mg2-exif-parser/

I have also writte a few pages about GeoTagging Photos in general.
http://notions.okuda.ca/2006/03/10/geotagging-photos/

[lancea]

Good stuff Poco. I had given up on finding an answer about what I now know is called geotagging. Thanks for revitalising my interest and for the links to your pages and beyond. Flickrmap looks nice. Guess it's about time I went back and tagged my very small set of photos on Flickr and added some more :)

[kheops]

old thread, but i've found this
http://www.itagsoftware.awswa.com/
guys tell me your feelings about it ?
would be superb if these gps tags are read by EE 2.0 :)

[TLovern]

you might also consider UTM instead of LAT/LON as UTM is easier to read off of topo maps and doesn't require a correction on the map.


Tim

[kheops]

you might also consider UTM instead of LAT/LON as UTM is easier to read off of topo maps and doesn't require a correction on the map.
Tim

Tim do you have a soft to do add these infos in a jpeg ? I don't know what UTM is but could be nice to add them in the exifs

thx