Shooting long glass.

[GO BIG]

In a couple of months time i will looking at purchasing a canon 500mm f4 lens.
I think the cheapest uk price at the moment is just a tad under 5k.
I'll be using this lens mainly for shooting bikes at real roadracing events and occasionaly some short circuit meetings.
So my question is are there any real alternatives to the canon and would you buy new or second hand, i've just about scraped enough money together to buy this lens (well in a couple of months i will have).
My 300 f2.8 is my longest lens in the bag to date.
Do you reqire a different technique when using these long lenses, any information and tips would be more than welcome.

Thanks
Stu.

[Simon Harrison]

There’s always an alternative…….

I have the Sigma 500mm EX DG HSM prime lens in a Canon mount (as do GSH, Cadwell and JuZ to name but a few from the forum) and use it to shoot motorsport on a regular basis. As I don’t use IS at all when shooting motorsport, and I have covers for when it rains, I couldn’t see any advantage at all in spending nearly twice the amount on the Canon equivalent. I, and everyone else I know who has this lens, find its AF speed, tracking ability and sharpness to be absolutely superb, and certainly doubt it could be bettered in real world circumstances by the Canon prime – that should wind the L zealots up, but it is a cold hard fact.

My lens was also bought second hand from London Camera Exchange. GSH got his second hand from MPB Photographic. Both were indistinguishable from new lens when received but with a big saving compared to the new price. I would happily buy either the Sigma or Canon equivalent used from any of main second hand dealers in the UK (eg Camtech, Mifsuds, MPB, LCE, Ffordes etc etc), as they have good returns and cooling off policies. I personally would not be happy buying these lenses privately or from Ebay. Your problem will be finding one for sale – I had to wait months before one came up.

I also would not buy a Canon 500mm f4.5L if you find one for sale. These were discontinued some time ago and you may have trouble insuring it on a new for old policy or finding the parts to repair it should it go wrong.

As for technique, it’s no different to using your 300mm on a monopod, although the extra focal length may show up any shortcomings in your technique and require a little bit of practice to get right.

Hope this helps.

Simon.

[GO BIG]

Thanks for the reply Simon and i totally agree about the IS and i'm by no means a L Zealot, i'd shoot with a smartie tube if i thought it would do the job.
My only concern with the sigma is finding a good copy, i've got a couple of mates who have gone through 3 and 4 lenses before they dropped on a good one (300 2.8 ) does this type of problem persist (quality control) throughout the Sigma range.

Stu.

[Simon Harrison]

Thanks for the reply Simon and i totally agree about the IS and i'm by no means a L Zealot, i'd shoot with a smartie tube if i thought it would do the job.
My only concern with the sigma is finding a good copy, i've got a couple of mates who have gone through 3 and 4 lenses before they dropped on a good one (300 2.8 ) does this type of problem persist (quality control) throughout the Sigma range.

Stu.

I can only speak as I find Stu, and I have 2 Sigma lenses (the 500 prime and a 120-300 f2.8) and mine were perfect straight out of the box. I know of people who have had more trouble and problems with their top end L glass than they have with their top end third party glass.

Another couple of things to bear in mind with the Sigma 500mm f4.5 EX DG HSM. In theory it should AF on a 1 series body with a 1.4XTC but it doesn't. If you want more reach, buy a 50D out of the money you'll save in not going with the Canon :D - I did (but got a 40D instead).

The Sigma lens is also smaller than the Canon equivalent in both length and diameter. Ergonomically, I prefer this out in the field but that is probably because I'm used to it now. I had an opportunity to shoot with the Canon 500mm recently, and I really struggled with the extra length in particular.

Simon.

[CyberDyneSystems]

*EDIT
Fyi when I posted this reply I did not see it was in the Motosport section, and assumed it was in the lens section.
Again, I don't shoot sports, so weight my reply accordingly.


Focal length magnifies camera shake,.
...to me 500mm is still quite workable without jumping through hoops.. With no IS 500mm seems to be the cut off point focal length between manageable and very difficult.

It helps to keep it as motionless and "damped" as possible obviously, many recommend the left hand draped over the barrel close to but in front of the focus ring to add more mass and stability.

For what I do, IS is hugely advantageous, and it allows me to be less concerned with my technique. I shoot a lot in lower light and often need very slow shutter, this is where IS is very helpful. It's totally different from the needs of the sports photographer.

that said, I also shot for many years with the SIGMA 500mm X HSM... and I agree that it is very shootable with no IS, and it's IQ and performance are very similar to the Canon.

Here's my side by side review;
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=69791
(see my "hotlinks" link in my sig for more reviews, check out the sigmonster review for more on the troubles with longer focal lengths. )



Where technique changes drastically IMHO is longer than 500mm with no IS,.
I also shot with the Sigmonster (300-800mm ) for a while and those focal lengths, without IS even on a tripod can be very tricky to tame.

As for the Sigma quality control question, it's only been in the last few months since 2003 that I've seen any posts re: QC for the larger pricier Sigma primes on this forum, the 500mm in particular. I doubt that it's reached epidemic proportions,.. in fact I would be confident to suggest that your odds are very good with this lens.

One drawback for the SIGMA 500mm, is it's trouble with T-Cons. If you would like a 500mm that also works perfectly with a 1.4x, and very well with a 2X teleconverter, you actually must buy the Canon.
The Sigma will take both T-cons, but it will not auto focus reliably with the 1.4x .. if at all, and it absolutely will not AF with the 2X.

You MIGHT get lucky and get a lens body combo that will AF with a 1.4x, but the odds are strongly against it.
Not make or break for every one, but something that needs to be considered.

[GO BIG]

WOW thanks Simon/CDS loads of information there for me to digest.

I dont like the sound of the sigma not A/F with a converter on but like Simon says (no pun intended) with the money i save i could buy a 1.6 cropped body.

The filter size is the same as my 300 2.8 so thats another tick in the box for the Canon.

Mmmm dont know where all this is leading but its got me thinking.

Just one last question, what can you see happening with the new prices over the next six to nine months.

Thanks again Simon and CDS for all your help
Stu.

[GSH]

Just one last question, what can you see happening with the new prices over the next six to nine months.



If i were a betting man i'd say they would stay pretty much static with any fall in prices being fairly small. Even if the exchange rates improve i can't see price cuts being as severe as the rises were.

If you're in the market for high value kit it may be worth considering the reputable Hong Kong dealers. I noticed DigitalRev have the 1DMKIII for less than £2300 at the moment.

[Simon Harrison]

I agree with Geoff.

While exchange rates are heading in the right direction, manufacturers and suppliers will have bought parts and lenses etc while the exchange rates were in the wrong place. Unless they are prepared to re-value their stock and write off some of its value, then I doubt you will see prices come down until the stock has been turned over.

Simon,.

[Simon Harrison]

Stu,

How about this :evil:?

http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/index.php?id=23&product_uid=670

If you've just about got enough for a new Canon 500mm, then this is within your price range......

Simon.,

[GSH]

Stu,

How about this :evil:?

http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/index.php?id=23&product_uid=670

If you've just about got enough for a new Canon 500mm, then this is within your price range......

Simon.,

Stop that at once !

<hides debit card>

[Lowner]

When I recently arranged to hire a 500mm L from London Camera Exchange for the upcoming British MotoGP, they told me they had a used example for sale. This was perhaps a month ago, so it may or may not still be available.

[neil_r]

Tip even with duty it is cheeper to buy from B&H and it took 5 days to arrive.

get an arca swiss plate for the lens and a clamp for your monopod.

[jfwoodman]

How can one "get lucky" with a Sigma 500 f4.5 and AF on a 1.4TC? This is a vexing problem with the Sigma 500. I would get it in a heartbeat if it had AF with a 1.4x on a Canon 1DIII, but apparently it doesn't.....or maybe sometimes it does???....what's that?! Can someone say for sure: does a Sigma 500mm f4.5 AF using a 1.4TC on a 1DIII?

*EDIT

One drawback for the SIGMA 500mm, is it's trouble with T-Cons. If you would like a 500mm that also works perfectly with a 1.4x, and very well with a 2X teleconverter, you actually must buy the Canon.
The Sigma will take both T-cons, but it will not auto focus reliably with the 1.4x .. if at all, and it absolutely will not AF with the 2X.

You MIGHT get lucky and get a lens body combo that will AF with a 1.4x, but the odds are strongly against it.
Not make or break for every one, but something that needs to be considered.

[Lowner]

If you are really in the market for either, surely the trader would be daft not to allow you to test the two lenses? My local shop has allowed me a week to test stuff in the past, and it's good business. It keeps me from wandering away to the internet. They are also very fair, cutting into margins to get close to internet prices.

I've not tried either the Sigma or the Canon with or without a converter as yet, although that's due to change very shortly when I use a Canon 500 f/4 at Donnington next weekend. My 30D has always refused to AF with my 100-400 unless the converter pins are taped, but my Eos-3 is always very happy with the untaped converter. Is it simply a matter of taping 3 pins on the converter that is being discussed here, or is it still a problem after that?

[Cadwell]

How can one "get lucky" with a Sigma 500 f4.5 and AF on a 1.4TC? This is a vexing problem with the Sigma 500. I would get it in a heartbeat if it had AF with a 1.4x on a Canon 1DIII, but apparently it doesn't.....or maybe sometimes it does???....what's that?! Can someone say for sure: does a Sigma 500mm f4.5 AF using a 1.4TC on a 1DIII?

A Sigma 500mm f/4.5 HSM does not AF with a Canon Extender 1.4x II or a Sigma 1.4x EX teleconvertor on a Canon EOS 1D Mark III.

It does AF using a non-reporting teleconvertor like the Tamron 1.4x I have.

That's about as sure a statements as you're likely to get on the subject.

[Lowner]

Glenn,

Thanks, I "think" that this means that trick of taping the three pins would work. Would need to be tested before splashing out the cash though.

[Zilly]

Personaly Id sell the 300 and buy the 400 f2.8 and a set of tele's to give you the best all round set up

But then thats just me

[KennyG]

I have a 500 here, but it rarely sees daylight as the 300 2.8 fits better for the focal lengths I need. When used I like it because power to weight ratio is ideal and trust me, a long day hauling heavy lenses isn't fun. The Canon 500 is regarded as the weapon of choice by bike togs, and the 300 by 4 wheelers like me.

To me the weather proofing/sealing is worth every penny. All my lenses are looking like they have been through a few war zones, but none have let in water and the camera body seals are as good as new. Until I move somewhere where it does not rain and there is no dust, that feature will remain very high on my priority list.

[Lowner]

Having just used the 500 f/4 for Donnington. I'd rent again when needed rather than buy. I was charged just £100 for 4 days and there are a lot of £100's in the purchase price of the lens.