Kylie (first model shoot) critique

[tim]

My step sister was kind enough to do some modeling for me, to help me practice for my upcoming wedding. She's never modeled before, and i've never shot a model before. Constructive critisism and suggestions on how to improve are very welcome, i'm doing another shoot with someone else tomorrow, and another next weekend. I might post some of the others some time if there's any interest.

The full set can be viewed here (http://www.mrwild.co.nz/Proofs/Kylie/index.html), below are a few of my favorites. Click the "i" button on those pages for EXIF information.

http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/kylie_b.jpg

http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/kylie_a.jpg

http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/kylie_c.jpg

Shots were done mainly with the Tamron 28-75 on my 20D, with a flash bracket, 550EX, and a LightSphere II. Not all shots used the flash. Of the 220 photos I took I have about 10 that I really like, about 25 more that are quite good, the rest aren't really usable - probably not too bad for my first shoot, given I was taking heaps and not worry about my "keeper" rate.

[C.S.I.]

I really like the second shot.......she exudes a strong look of confidence, and I also like the curves in that shot as well--sexy. Good job to both of you.

The lighting seems pretty good as well with the wide range that youre working with.......difficult to tie them all together given the circumstances...the strong background light, combined with her pale skin, dark hair and purple dress, you wrapped it up nicely!

[serissolutions]

Tim, Could you post the specs on your first shot?
lens, fstop, shutter
Also, could you post your lighting set up?

Also, any post processing?

[pdrow]

These are very nice. I, too, am curious about yourpost processing as she seems to be wearing the same top in the bottom two, yet the colors are very different. I like the rustic look in the background of number three.

[grego]

The middle one I like. And the 1st one sort of, but she looks very pale white, especially in the last one.

[Mike Panic]

you did an overall great job w/ this - but if im going to nit-pick, you've changed the WB to make her skin tones warmer in some shots (looking tan) and cooler in others (looks goth pale)

not a bad thing - but when posting in a series it really shows how much you've tweaked them

[cactusclay]

Those are great shots, Tim.

[tim]

Tim, Could you post the specs on your first shot?
lens, fstop, shutter
Also, could you post your lighting set up?

Also, any post processing?

All the EXIF info's available on the web pages I linked to (http://www.mrwild.co.nz/Proofs/Kylie/slides/IMG_9336.html)- click the little "i" button on that page. It's the 100mm macro, ISO 800, 1/200th, F4. It was natural lighting from one side, in PS CS2 RAW I reduced the contrast so there were less shadows on the right side of her face. I used the spot healing brush too, layers, gausian blurs, and blending modes to smooth out the skin.

In the photos where the lighting seems more even I used the lightsphere 2 on a bracket.

These are very nice. I, too, am curious about yourpost processing as she seems to be wearing the same top in the bottom two, yet the colors are very different. I like the rustic look in the background of number three.

Thanks for pointing that out - I haven't done any color matching at all :oops: She does have very pale skin, the flash emphasizes that. There was a mix of natural light and flash, I need to play with the color temperatures to get them all similar. I was concentrating on each photo individually rather than the lot as a set. I'll fix that up and repost them once i've done it :)

[tim]

I've gone thru and color corrected all the pictures, then done all the edits again by hand... a couple of hours work. I've replaced the images above, and i've added a couple more on my website. Comments and critique are still welcome :)

[roanjohn]

TIM - that first shot............WOW!!!! I am absolutely in love with it!!! I think that the expression and lighting works very well!!!!! GREAT JOB.

I like the other 2 shots too...........however I think that the background didn't really compliment the girl for some reason..........but that could be just personal taste. I tend to be very minimalistic.

RO1

[tim]

Thanks Roan :D I'm pretty happy for my first attempt :) I underestimated how much processing would be necessary though.

The first one was while we were setting up and getting ready, I snapped it while I saw a nice expression :) I agree about the background for the 2nd one, it's in a car parking building that I live near, I was trying for the city in the background but couldn't quite work the angle. I really like the rusty gate in the 3rd one, but yeah it's kinda busy behind it, even though it's blurred.

Any suggestions from you or anyone for next time? I don't have a studio, I do have a large room with white walls I could make look like one. Natural light would come from one side, except for the flash and any fill lighting I can manage.

[Dante King]

WOW Tim! Fantastic job! I am blown away. I would hire you to take pics of the important event in my life in a heartbeat. You got some serious skills.

that said, can I have your sisters phone number? J/K On the serious side she is an incredible looking woman!

[CyberDyneSystems]

Amazing shots Tim.. I particularly like th first two.. the first as a great creative and expressive portreit.. the second.. if the backgrund were different looks like a cover shot for a fashion magazine.. just amazing. An excellent model as well,. and I don't just mean she's geougous.. this is obvious,. but she really seems to know what to do for the camera as well.

Very impressed.

[Rob612]

I'll second the first one. Absolutely.

[mdm]

Number 2 works, good going.

[tim]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments :) FYI Kylie's 21 (ish) and AFAIK hasn't modeled much before.

I'll pay more attention to my backgrounds in future, one thing i've noticed is dark haired people need light backgrounds around their hair to highlight it, the opposite's true for light haired people. I'd never directed anyone taking photos before, it took a little while but I started to get the hang of it :)

I've put another 20 or so shots up on my site, the link's in the first post of the thread.

[pro1]

The a and c shots are nicely cropped. The b shot (first in your little list) has to much background IMHO. I like the background for shot a, gives it a real urban girl feeling.
Keep up the good work!

[tim]

Thanks Pro :) I tried with different crop sizes for that shot, 4:3 makes removes the free space, but I ended up keeping the 3:2 ratio because I like the space around her. She's not perfectly centered in the frame, but for some reason I like that too.

[pro1]

Another remark, if you don't mind :)

I looked at your "seconds" and feel that you really should not use the ISO 3200 setting. It is convenient to work with available light, and while but the grain does suit the background, it is not so nice for the main subject.

[tim]

I agree, thanks for the suggestion :) I was in a hurry because Kylie was cold, I just turn the ISO to max and took a few natural light snaps. ISO 3200 took the shutter speed to 1/320 which was far faster than I needed, ISO 1600 or even ISO 800 would have done the job fine and made for a much nicer picture. I'll know to take more care next time!

[Maureen Souza]

Nice work, Tim. I really think you got the lighting factor right on! These look great. I am a firm believer in taking a ton of shots so that you have a decent handful as keepers.:D

[Jonny]

Great shots dude, love them all.

Can i ask what software you use for you web gallery?

[tim]

Thanks Maureen, Jonny :) Most of the shots have had the exposure tweaekd (mainly increased, few decreased) in camera raw, to get them looking how I liked. I think I need to lay with the metering modes and the flash more to work out how to get it spot on.

I use JAlbum (http://www.jalbum.net) to generate my albums, it's a fantastic flexible program. I wrote a custom skin called lifetime to look how I like, you can download it here (http://jrepository.engblom.org/default.asp?Action=viewskin&GUID={D5163344-2769-472A-898A-E4A18F9C2FB5}) if you like it.

Here's another one, done deliberately high key and high contrast, the red channel limits making the face look white. I also tweaked the eyes a bit to enhance their color.

http://mrwild.co.nz/unprotected/potn/kylie_d.jpg

[Bruce Hamilton]

Just my opinion, but that bright lipstick sticks out like a sore thumb against her light complexion. A lighter red color would look better on her.

[karusel]

The first shot is so outstanding I don't even care about the other two. The girl looks at her best, made a naturally appealing look, very nice lighting, creamy sweet shadow-light border,***

[tim]

Just my opinion, but that bright lipstick sticks out like a sore thumb against her light complexion. A lighter red color would look better on her.

In that last photo or in all of them? That last one is deliberately high key, I wanted it to look like that! It's easy to tone that down if I want to.

The first shot is so outstanding I don't even care about the other two....

You like it then? Thanks :)

[Bruce Hamilton]

In that last photo or in all of them?

All of them... Just too bright for her light complexion.

[tim]

Anyone else think the lipstick is too bright? It's not difficult to desaturate it a little.

She asked me what color lipstick I wanted her to wear, I told her to wear whatever she liked :)

[CyberDyneSystems]

I think the red is perfect.. IMHO

I love this last shot. the high key works really well with her complexion. (and the red lips) :)

[tim]

Thanks CDS.

[Wazza]

Oh dear Tim. I'm going to to have to restrain you. You're learning too damn fast. Great shots you have there. They all work well in their own way. :)

Really love the first and second shot.

Find some more ladies, and bring them up with you to Auckland, next time you're around.

[hollow]

Well Tim, what can I say ? Try a different model if you want constructive criticism ! Because my eyes are catched entirely by your model ! :D

...kiddin'

I don't have much to say. Like one person said before and like you did notice, posting three picture in a row with the same person and same dress looks like a set. That is ok. But one thing I wasn't able to understand from this "set" : the colour of her eyes.

Are they blue ? (in the first one ). Are they brown ( like in the second one ) ? Or are they almost green ? ( in the las one ) ?

I'm not a light specialist. But I think you could try to light up a little her eyes to obtain the real colour and to show better. Because she have beutiful eyes.

For the last pic you've posted : I like the eyes. Vibrant green. Surreal ! :)

P.S. Lipstick is just fine for my taste !

[tim]

Thanks Wazza, Hollow :) This was my first attempt, i'm reasonably happy with how it went, I have at least three things to think about next time.

Wazza, i'll get in touch with a few people on POTN next time i'm coming up to Auckland, must get up sometime soon, have a couple of good friends there. I don't know if I can bring a model with me though ;)

Hollow, the only change I did to her eyes was in the one on page 2, I saturated her eyes green, which I think is her natural color. Thanks for the tip with the eyes, i'm not sure what I could do more to light them up but i'll have a think. I'll also vary the clothing more next time, it was a case of 2 outfits last time, see what we can do with them.

Must try some more of this model shooting, it's kinda fun! :)

[hollow]

i'm not sure what I could do more to light them up but i'll have a think.

Must try some more of this model shooting, it's kinda fun! :)

Well, it was just a hint. You have three different pictures with three different lighting conditions and one of those pictures shows the real colour of her eyes. The ideea it fas for you to study that ligting conditions and to try different options. :)
And I guess it will worth the effort because she is a very beautiful lady ( one of the most I've seen around in this forum :o ) and she is available for you to pose and you also have the the capability to make her beautiness to pop-up in your pictures.

And above all you said it's fun ! So go for it ! :)

P.S. you have to excuse my English. Is not my native language.

[tim]

Thanks for your thoughts hollow, very helpful. Still not sure what I could do re eye color, any suggestions from anyone are welcome. btw your english is perfectly understandable, probably better than my Romanian ;) (sorry if that's not the name of your first language, i'm terrible at languages and geography!)

[hollow]

"Romanian" is the exact name ! :lol:

Don't get me wrong. The pictures and your sister looks great in all situations and with all kind of eyes colour. :)

Maybe I've said what I've said because blue/green eyes colour is my favourite. Maybe I was a little subjective.

But as I said I think it's worth to try. You have all that you need for that ! :)

P.S. : Maaaan ! That lipstick it absolutely fantastic ! You have to tell me what kind of lipstick is 'cause I want to buy one for my wife ! ;)

[tim]

Thanks for your comments, if I do more pics in i'll post them on this thread, won't be for a few weeks tho, I have a wedding to do soon.... my first... hey, how hard could it be?!

[Claire]

I like the shots, but in the third one she looks kinda pale. Still, I really like them. :)

[Andy_T]

Tim,

Kylie - and your photos - are absolutely gorgeous :D

(I know, not much of a critique, but that's the way I see it)

Best regards,
Andy

[canon2od]

Tim, I am in the learning stage and this post is very helpful.


Very nice pictures--very, very nice.

[mbze430]

Here are my $.02. Composition and posing is really good. Being creative in the digital darkroom is a personal preference. So do what you will.

This isn't really your fault or the fault of your sis. But her face is washed up with the rest of her features. You need to define contour to the face, and only make up can do that. Specially for female models. Like I said, this isn't your fault or the fault of the subject.

Just change it to black and white, and you'll see it lacks tonal range.

[tim]

Tim, I am in the learning stage and this post is very helpful.

Hey i'm in the learning stage too!

Here are my $.02. Composition and posing is really good. Being creative in the digital darkroom is a personal preference. So do what you will.

This isn't really your fault or the fault of your sis. But her face is washed up with the rest of her features. You need to define contour to the face, and only make up can do that. Specially for female models. Like I said, this isn't your fault or the fault of the subject.

Just change it to black and white, and you'll see it lacks tonal range.

That's great feedback, thanks! You wouldn't by any chance happen to know of a good book or website that I could read more about this would you? I'd not even know where to start looking!

[mbze430]

Hey, tim...I left you a message regarding what you are asking. I feel that I shouldn't really post it here, because it's beyond photograhpy in itself.

[tim]

Thanks for the tips mbze :)

[PhotosGuy]

Any suggestions from you or anyone for next time? Very nice shots. Best advice I can give would be to be more aware of the backgrounds & move her farther away from them when you can. Less DOF is your friend! ;-)
Looks as if you have a window in #2. Maybe you could have used it to add a hairlight to get some separation from the dark ceiling?

[tim]

Yeah backgrounds are a major thing i'll work on next time, as well as color consistency. In #2 the whole left side of the picture is an open side of a parking building, and I used fill flash. I don't know how i'd have used that open building side as a hairlight.... i'm always open to being educated though :)

[PhotosGuy]

Since the amount of light coming from the side is relativly constant, you'd have to start with an exposure where it showed up as highlights in the hair, then adjust the flash exposure to work with that setting.
An alternative would be to carry a slave flash to kick in some highlights. Take a look at "Simple "every-day-emergency" location lighting" here:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=66140
It's not a great example of 'hair lighting', but you'll get the idea. ;-)

[tim]

Thanks PhotosGuy. I'm still not sure how i'd have done a hairlight using the open side of the building - perhaps putting her back to it may have helped. The idea of that thread, having two flashes, isn't practical for the type of shoot that was.