The route to a successful photography business

[Metalstrm]

First off I would like to say that I have already skimmed through the question related threads on this forum, which were all very helpful. Now, I am interested in starting up a photography business. I believe that a key factor that determines whether a business is successful nowadays is having the professional edge over the others, be it marketing, service and/or product.

I am looking to learn how to go about achieving this level of professionality. Besides the service, that is, photography itself, I know that I have to be good at business itself.

At the moment, I'm looking to start studying for an MBA, as I already have an unrelated first degree, but I do not know for sure whether this will help me along the way. My idea is that the business theory studied for an MBA will eventually help me gain that professional edge. Do you think it will make a difference? Of course, interpersonal skills and so on are also of importance, but I like to believe that I'm not totally lacking in that department. However, I know that other courses, such as anything related to webdesign, IT and so on would also help.

I know that this might be too broad of a question, but some of the professionals here might help me out. What do you think would be a good route to a successful and professional photography business nowadays?

[Chris]

When I started my business, I was surprised to learn that to make a customer happy you have to:
Do what you said you were going to do
In the time frame that you promised
For the price that you quoted

If you can do that consistently, you are well on your way to a sucessful business.

[golfecho]

Regarding the MBA:

What do you enjoy? What do you want to do? If you really want to be the guy behind the camera, then I would re-think MBA. It is a degree for those who really enjoy RUNNING A BUSINESS . . . .in other words, doing all the business related processes. A fellow with an MBA would enjoy running a photography business in the sense of having one or more photographers working for him. Think for a second about being a pilot . . . an MBA would help someone run an airline, but not necessarily help a pilot enjoy doing the flying aspect of the business.

Don't get me wrong, an MBA is a great accomplishment and a big step and advantage in the business world, but I ask again . . . What do you enjoy? What do you want to do?

OK, my two cents . . .

[Brian Austin]

I agree on the MBA direction. If you're going into corporate whatever, yes, it's a nice plus on the resume. For your own business, it's virtually pointless until you get to a scale that most studios won't reach.

You'd be better off taking some business seminars, preferably focused on the photography industry. Join PPA and check out their Studio Management Services program. Highly focused business guidance for photography studios.

http://www.ppa.com/studio-management-services/

[aram535]

+1 to the MBA discussion ... although it never hurts to have it, I can say that you can't apply 90% of it to a small business. Disclaimer: I don't have an MBA, but my partner does. We're in agreement on the first sentence.

Secondly, I think being/producing a "professional" image is more of a deceleration and goal rather than a specific item. There is a lot of discussions on what makes a professional and what % of income is coming from photography ... all of that to me is nonesense and makes no difference to your clients. Your clients obviously like your work and results, so the question becomes how do you threat them and do you do it in a "professional" manner. Do you have a proper room to meet customers in without your kids toys around it? Do you wear clean and respectable attrire, properly printed, spell checked, grammer checked, documents that you hand to the client. Do you deliver your product in a nice clean box or a USPS envelope? Now I agree that some customers don't care about any of that stuff and just want the lowest price. But most of them do care.

I hope that helps.

[Metalstrm]

Thanks all for the very good help. I have to point out one thing though. That when a thread of this sort crops up, the usual advice is to tell the OP to go study business. I find it surprising now that the consensus is rather different.

So would you suggest photography courses? I personally love photography, but would also love to make money out of it. I want to explore every facet of photography and its business, to amalgamate the art with the money, if possible.

[golfecho]

Here is a site by a photographer who has dozens of pages on the photography business, marketing, and plenty of related info. I can't confirm any of his information, but I sure found his site very helpful, if only to open my mind to so many aspects that were not in my thought process.

http://www.danheller.com/

[Metalstrm]

That's a very good site golfecho. Thanks a lot!

[airfrogusmc]

First off I would like to say that I have already skimmed through the question related threads on this forum, which were all very helpful. Now, I am interested in starting up a photography business. I believe that a key factor that determines whether a business is successful nowadays is having the professional edge over the others, be it marketing, service and/or product.

I am looking to learn how to go about achieving this level of professionality. Besides the service, that is, photography itself, I know that I have to be good at business itself.

At the moment, I'm looking to start studying for an MBA, as I already have an unrelated first degree, but I do not know for sure whether this will help me along the way. My idea is that the business theory studied for an MBA will eventually help me gain that professional edge. Do you think it will make a difference? Of course, interpersonal skills and so on are also of importance, but I like to believe that I'm not totally lacking in that department. However, I know that other courses, such as anything related to webdesign, IT and so on would also help.

I know that this might be too broad of a question, but some of the professionals here might help me out. What do you think would be a good route to a successful and professional photography business nowadays?

I say go to work for a successful photographer whose work you admire in a field you would want to wind up in. Save the money you would spend on the MBA and think of the time you spend working for this photographer as a graduate degree. An MBA is fine if you're going to work for IBM.

I have a B/A in photography and have been working full time in photogrpahy since graduation in 1986.

[Brian Austin]

Thanks all for the very good help. I have to point out one thing though. That when a thread of this sort crops up, the usual advice is to tell the OP to go study business. I find it surprising now that the consensus is rather different.

I think you're missing the point. No one said "don't study business". A surprising amount of MBA material is actually less about "real" world SMALL business and more about theories and large corporate ventures. Can it be applied? Sure...but it would be more expensive and overkill in most cases.

I come from both backgrounds. There are places where I'd prefer a MBA and other places where I'd prefer an experienced but non-degreed pro.

So would you suggest photography courses? I personally love photography, but would also love to make money out of it. I want to explore every facet of photography and its business, to amalgamate the art with the money, if possible.

PPA has a number of courses on how to apply creative photography skills toward developing a business. ASMP, WPPI, and others do the same. Join an organization/association and use their resources.

[Mark1]

I agre with an MBA being overkill. Great info to have but Doesent MBA ceter arround large corporate econimics. That does not allways work on the small scale.

I would definatley take some business coarses but it is not worth it to go that far. Intro to Business and micro economics will get you half way there.

90% of any small buisness is.....the buisness of being in buisness. The other 10% is why you got into buisness. That said it is not that overly complicated. Some may think other wise. But I have not found it to be overwelming at all. You just have to think twice on overything and the right decision will show it self.

[Mark1]

Here is a site by a photographer who has dozens of pages on the photography business, marketing, and plenty of related info. I can't confirm any of his information, but I sure found his site very helpful, if only to open my mind to so many aspects that were not in my thought process.

http://www.danheller.com/


2 other pro photographers are currently blogging about what it takes to go pro as well. Im at work...Ill post links when I get home.

[airfrogusmc]

I learned more in just a few weeks of working for a successful photographer than I did in all of my business and marketing classes of how to run a successful photography business. The thing that really separated me from the herd was my strong technical and visual background that I got from being a photography major.

[Metalstrm]

I understand what you mean Brian. I just thought that the knowledge that an MBA gives you, especially regarding marketing, could be invaluable. I am and will be working for another pro for some time. I just have to find someone who wants to take me in. Over here the business owners are very protective and will do anything to stop competition from taking a hold...

[Brian Austin]

I understand what you mean Brian. I just thought that the knowledge that an MBA gives you, especially regarding marketing, could be invaluable. I am and will be working for another pro for some time. I just have to find someone who wants to take me in. Over here the business owners are very protective and will do anything to stop competition from taking a hold...

Marketing is pretty easy. It takes more effort in the "work" department than education, really. One good Marketing 101 class would be fine to get you started. "Guerrilla Marketing" is a good book as well. I did all of my computer business marketing using that one. It grew enough to sell it later. :)

[airfrogusmc]

A couple of things that have also worked for me. Find an area you love. Things you love to shoot. Then see if theres a market for it. Then find a way to to make what you do different than what the herd is doing and give them service and a product that they can't get anywhere else. Don't try to be everything to everybody. Find a niche and become the best in that niche. Build relationships with your clients.

I don't advertise in a traditional way. I do all commercial work and everything I've built I've built on relationships with my clients. I have a strong stable of maybe 2 dozen ( a bit more) steady clients that keep me busy. I'm to a point now where I rarely have to bid on jobs.

[Metalstrm]

Just curious airfrog, what do you shoot? A couple dozen steady clients sounds a bit few unless they repeatedly order work.

To be honest, I don't feel like I have a niche so far. I would like to do commercial photography with an artistic twist. I also find portraits/people to be great and challenging to shoot.

[Gentleman Villain]

A couple dozen steady clients sounds a bit few unless they repeatedly order work.



It's totally normal to have just a few dozen steady clients and work with only a handful of ad agencies for a commercial photographer.....and out of those few dozen clients maybe only 3-4 will be responsible for 75% of a year's total billing.

That's the main reason why it's very hard for a person to make enough contacts to start a commercial photography business. Portraiture and weddings type businesses are much easier to start because the potential client base is much larger and open to access.

If somebody wants to get into commercial it would help to assist first in the market that he'd like to setup a business....that way he can see who the potential clients are and what types of work they will want to buy...and also learn the proper way to approach potential clients. Each market has a unique culture..

If somebody wants to set up a portraiture or wedding type of business then that can take more of a traditional approach to business...Just shoot a lot...give out a business card....advertise....rent or own a space in a good location....and be around to answer the phone when it rings

[airfrogusmc]

Just curious airfrog, what do you shoot? A couple dozen steady clients sounds a bit few unless they repeatedly order work.

To be honest, I don't feel like I have a niche so far. I would like to do commercial photography with an artistic twist. I also find portraits/people to be great and challenging to shoot.

Its all repeat business. I have the very first client I had when I first went into business. And say you have an average of say 20+ clients at an average of 15K+ ea a year well you do the math.

[airfrogusmc]

It's totally normal to have just a few dozen steady clients and work with only a handful of ad agencies for a commercial photographer.....and out of those few dozen clients maybe only 3-4 will be responsible for 75% of a year's total billing.

That's the main reason why it's very hard for a person to make enough contacts to start a commercial photography business. Portraiture and weddings type businesses are much easier to start because the potential client base is much larger and open to access.

If somebody wants to get into commercial it would help to assist first in the market that he'd like to setup a business....that way he can see who the potential clients are and what types of work they will want to buy...and also learn the proper way to approach potential clients. Each market has a unique culture..

If somebody wants to set up a portraiture or wedding type of business then that can take more of a traditional approach to business...Just shoot a lot...give out a business card....advertise....rent or own a space in a good location....and be around to answer the phone when it rings

EXACTLY!!!!

[iAMB]

Being in a family retail store, we have found that alot has to do with compromise. You tend to have to shift your ways not becuase you necesarily want to but because of the customers. You also need to remember that the customer is the entire reason for the business. They are the reason you exist and should never be considered annoying. When they come to you for business, you have to offer them whatever you can to make them happy, they in turn will only hand over the money when they are satisfied. You have everything to gain and lose, not them. Sure you can have amazing marketing and photography skills, but if they dont like the attitude or gratitude they are recieving, another photographer is just a phonecall away. Sometimes a simple smile is all the difference.

[airfrogusmc]

Being in a family retail store, we have found that alot has to do with compromise. You tend to have to shift your ways not becuase you necesarily want to but because of the customers. You also need to remember that the customer is the entire reason for the business. They are the reason you exist and should never be considered annoying. When they come to you for business, you have to offer them whatever you can to make them happy, they in turn will only hand over the money when they are satisfied. You have everything to gain and lose, not them. Sure you can have amazing marketing and photography skills, but if they dont like the attitude or gratitude they are recieving, another photographer is just a phonecall away. Sometimes a simple smile is all the difference.

Thats why if your going to be successful in photography there isn't anyone in your area of expertise thats just a phone call away. They call you because you are where they get what they need.

And if you have the right approach you don't have customers you have clients. McDonalds has costumers.

[iAMB]

Thats why if your going to be successful in photography there isn't anyone in your area of expertise thats just a phone call away. They call you because you are where they get what they need.

And if you have the right approach you don't have customers you have clients. McDonalds has costumers.


I get what your saying. I'm coming from retail experience. But in reality, its all just a matter of truly knowing what the person wants and making it happen to the best you can whether it be price, quality, or experience. Its just a matter of the right skills, like you said, to have them come back again and hopefully people they know coming to you.

[Metalstrm]

Thanks all for the help. Well, I have to say that what you said did shake up my plans quite a bit. I'm unsure at the moment how to proceed. I think getting to work for another photographer is the surest way, but I'd love to learn more about running the business as well. And maybe take some webdesign classes.

[airfrogusmc]

I get what your saying. I'm coming from retail experience. But in reality, its all just a matter of truly knowing what the person wants and making it happen to the best you can whether it be price, quality, or experience. Its just a matter of the right skills, like you said, to have them come back again and hopefully people they know coming to you.

And the most important part, that all the marketing and business can't help you with is, the images. If you don't have the technical skill to deliver then none of that will be of any help especially in the commercial world. You're only as good as your last job. ;)

[airfrogusmc]

My advice concentrate on learning all you can about your craft. I have NO WEB PRESENCE. It wouldn't get me clients for the type of work I do or clients that I would want. If you need a web page hire someone that does it all the time and does a great job at that. Concentrate on what you do best and get people that do what they do best to help you. I am not the worlds greatest accountant but I have a VERY GOOD one. You will never be able to do all things great so do the things that you do great and get good people to do those thing that you don't do great.

[Metalstrm]

That's very good advice, I am in fact thinking of hiring someone to create a website for me.

[Gentleman Villain]

My advice concentrate on learning all you can about your craft. I have NO WEB PRESENCE. It wouldn't get me clients for the type of work I do or clients that I would want. If you need a web page hire someone that does it all the time and does a great job at that. Concentrate on what you do best and get people that do what they do best to help you. I am not the worlds greatest accountant but I have a VERY GOOD one. You will never be able to do all things great so do the things that you do great and get good people to do those thing that you don't do great.

That is 1000% correct

Photographers should team up with a skilled graphic designer for creating web sites or advertising material. This is especially true for commercial photographers since their clients are mostly always going to have an advertising background and should know the difference between good and bad design.

Photographers should refrain from putting portfolios online with obviously home-made websites or with obviously home-made logos pasted on their images. This is true for all types of photographers, but it's especially true for commercial and advertising. Art directors and graphic designers might not know anything about photography but they will definitely know graphic design. A photographer might have a portfolio of excellent images but lose jobs simply because they're wrapped up in poor design.

[airfrogusmc]

That is 1000% correct

Photographers should team up with a skilled graphic designer for creating web sites or advertising material. This is especially true for commercial photographers since their clients are mostly always going to have an advertising background and should know the difference between good and bad design.

Photographers should refrain from putting portfolios online with obviously home-made websites or with obviously home-made logos pasted on their images. This is true for all types of photographers, but it's especially true for commercial and advertising. Art directors and graphic designers are the clients. They might not know anything about photography, but they definitely know graphic design...so that's the first thing they notice. A photographer might have a portfolio of excellent images but lose jobs simply because they're wrapped up in poor design.

Yep. Like you said if you have a business that say and art director or a graphic designer is going to hire you based on your web site, if they're the kind of client you want to work for your site had better rock Most of the clients I have, hire me based on my relationship with them and when it works great I'm paired up with a graphic designer and a writer where all the elements work together to give a cohesive final piece. Which means in thses situations I get hire for the look of my work and that fits well with the designers style and the tone the writer takes, so they all look and sound like they belong together.


One last little piece of advice; whatever you do you will need to put out a high quality product CONSISTENTLY to have longevity. You will always need to be growing both technically and visually. And don't try to be everything to everybody. I have had to many friends fail trying to do that. Find a niche and make it a priority to do it better with both service to your client and visually/technically and understand a strong business will take time to build and grow. It takes courage to turn away work that might not be what you do best or might not have the time to do but it will payoff in the long run.

[Picture North Carolina]

Here is a site by a photographer who has dozens of pages on the photography business, marketing, and plenty of related info. I can't confirm any of his information, but I sure found his site very helpful, if only to open my mind to so many aspects that were not in my thought process.

http://www.danheller.com/

Also:

http://blogs.photopreneur.com/

[Metalstrm]

Golfecho, I commend you once again. I have printed some bits off Heller's site and I think it's pretty good information for somebody starting out. Thanks as well, CannedHeat!

[golfecho]

Golfecho, I commend you once again.


No credit for me . . . I only stumbled on the web site. Heller is the guy with the good content . . .

[Metalstrm]

I know, but you shared the link, which is enough. Some people keep information to themselves. I appreciate it anyway.

[fontanka]

When I started my business, I was surprised to learn that to make a customer happy you have to:
Do what you said you were going to do
In the time frame that you promised
For the price that you quoted

If you can do that consistently, you are well on your way to a sucessful business.
+1 (agree)

[airfrogusmc]

Kristian,

One thing that really rings true that he (Dan Heller) brings up is knowing all aspects of the area you are working in and having contacts in that area. You can have the greatest portfolio in the world but if you can't get in the door its useless.

A great way to meet the people and learn all the inside nuances is to work for a photographer that is in the biz already. Not only do you get to learn how he does business but also you get a real inside look and meet some of the players.

Good luck....

[RDKirk]

I think you're missing the point. No one said "don't study business". A surprising amount of MBA material is actually less about "real" world SMALL business and more about theories and large corporate ventures. Can it be applied? Sure...but it would be more expensive and overkill in most cases.

This is very true. An MBA is a "corporate cog" program. That curriculum may tell you little or nothing about how to handle local codes, small business law, small business marketing, et cetera, which is as different from corporate operations as a guerilla war is different from the Normandy Invasion.

IMO, you'd do better crafting a small business education at a local community college. They will usually have more courses specific to managing a small business, especially one starting with fewer than five employees, LLCs, "closely held" corporations, and sole proprietorships.

More importantly, the local community colllege courses will be taught by people who have local business connections (such as SCORE mentors) and who know the local business environment--you can network even as you learn.

[Picture North Carolina]

About a year or so ago, UC Berkley had posted thousands of hours of classroom lectures from its MBA program on YouTube. Picking and choosing a lecture here and there would be useful for anybody in the photog business.

However, I just took a look and could not find them. Perhaps they have been taken down. If anybody has a link, please post it.

[Picture North Carolina]

Remember one more important thing. It's not all about "having the professional edge over the others..." It's about your attitude. It's about having the hunger, the desire, the drive to succeed.

I post this because an example came up tonight. I have a friend who wants to be in business but who spent the entire evening sitting, watching TV. I didn't. I studied framing because I can increase my profits substantially by doing it myself.

In my life, I've run across many people who think being in business for yourself is a 9-5 job. That you punch the timeclock, go home, slug down beers and watch the tube. It may happen for a few, but mostly it does not.

Being in business for yourself, especially when first starting out, demands effort and hard work... and time. If you have a hunger and desire for it, it will probably happen. It will drive you. If you do not, it probably won't.

[Metalstrm]

I agree CannedHeat. I guess that ultimately, that is the most important ingredient in the whole business.

[Karl Johnston]

This topic is great

[Metalstrm]

And well, continuing on what CannedHeat said, I guess that the motivation and excitement bit is the most difficult thing to hold throughout the years. I have had my fair share of ups and downs, and it is a feedback loop which could end up destroying the excitement. Once you feel a bit demotivated, you don't do your full effort, and if you don't do your full effort, you feel demotivated...

[airfrogusmc]

Business will be a series of ups and downs sometimes in the same week, sometimes in the same day. The real test is how you handle those ups and downs and your ability to keep your edge and stay fresh.

For my generation of photographers we had a great re-energizer. Digital. Sometimes something like this comes along and changes everything and brings a new excitement to the medium.

After 20+ years of being at this full time I still love it. I'm a photographer. Its what I do. Its my work and my hobby and I do it in some way almost everyday of my life.

[Metalstrm]

That's very encouraging airfrog... It's great to hear that you still have the passion. Many people lose the passion once they make something their career. I hope that I'll be able to separate shooting for the business and shooting for the hobby..

[Krapo]

Kristian,

I understand your question as I asked it myself a few times. The difference is that I already have an MBA, so the angle is different and maybe my 2cts can help you.

Will an MBA help you to run a(/any) business? Definitely. Whatever its size. I disagree with some posts above saying that MBAs only apply to the corporate world. Finance, marketing or strategy apply to any business venture, whatever its size. Only the scale and complexity varry.

Do you need and MBA to run a photography business? Obviously not. Unless you want to create a very ambitious, scalable business, you should focus more on the content than on management. Not to say that you won't need a sound strategy, some marketing and finance, but it will be limited compared to the share of your time you will spend on the content side (selling, shooting, etc.).

There is an important point you want to consider before doing an MBA, it's the return on investment.
Unless you come from a rich family, an MBA is a HUGE financial investment, especially if you go for the top schools. Mine cost me more than $150K overall (tuition, cost of living, opportunity cost,...). So if you have to borrow that money (or part of it), you find yourself in a situation where your exit strategies after graduation are somewhat limited. Basically, you go for the jobs that will pay back your loan. Before you know it, you work as a strategy consultant or as an investment banker and you don't have any time left to do anything else ;) That's the curse of the MBA... That's why you have so few entrepreneurs in the first 5 years after graduation (less than 5% at Harvard or Wharton)
If you're still interested, I'm happy to help you going forward but at this stage, you should have dropped the whole MBA idea if you're passionate about photography :)

Now what does it take to be successful?
I'm not a pro photographer so these are just a few ideas more based on general considerations.
- Entering a market means that you will either expand the total market (serve new customers, eg by finding a niche that is currently untapped) or steal market shares from your competitors.
- Either strategy is fine. If you target new customers, you must identify their needs and design your offer accordingly. It can be an untapped region, a new service, etc. If you steal market shares, you must gain a competitive advantage. It can be on price, on quality, on products, on customer service, etc. Basically it can be on whatever key driver of the demand. That's where it helps to know your market.
- Either way, sustaining your competitive advantage is key. It's easy to enter the market with low prices, it's much more difficult to keep them low unless your cost structure is lower -by design- than that of your competitors (eg. Ryan Air).

This is really Corporate Strategy 101 but this is true for all businesses, from GE to the local grocery store. You don't need an MBA to know that, nor to "sustain your competitive advantage". Good business judgement is a plus, and you may use a few evening classes on marketing to help you on getting visibility and pricing/promoting your services. But it's not rocket science.

If you can answer the questions:
- What do my customers really want/need?
- How can I do it better than my competitors?
- How do I prevent my competitors from imitating me?
...then you're mostly set from a business point of view. Photography skills are a whole different topic, and certainly not the least.

[Metalstrm]

Kristian,

I understand your question as I asked it myself a few times. The difference is that I already have an MBA, so the angle is different and maybe my 2cts can help you.

Will an MBA help you to run a(/any) business? Definitely. Whatever its size. I disagree with some posts above saying that MBAs only apply to the corporate world. Finance, marketing or strategy apply to any business venture, whatever its size. Only the scale and complexity varry.

Do you need and MBA to run a photography business? Obviously not. Unless you want to create a very ambitious, scalable business, you should focus more on the content than on management. Not to say that you won't need a sound strategy, some marketing and finance, but it will be limited compared to the share of your time you will spend on the content side (selling, shooting, etc.).

There is an important point you want to consider before doing an MBA, it's the return on investment.
Unless you come from a rich family, an MBA is a HUGE financial investment, especially if you go for the top schools. Mine cost me more than $150K overall (tuition, cost of living, opportunity cost,...). So if you have to borrow that money (or part of it), you find yourself in a situation where your exit strategies after graduation are somewhat limited. Basically, you go for the jobs that will pay back your loan. Before you know it, you work as a strategy consultant or as an investment banker and you don't have any time left to do anything else ;) That's the curse of the MBA... That's why you have so few entrepreneurs in the first 5 years after graduation (less than 5% at Harvard or Wharton)
If you're still interested, I'm happy to help you going forward but at this stage, you should have dropped the whole MBA idea if you're passionate about photography :)

Now what does it take to be successful?
I'm not a pro photographer so these are just a few ideas more based on general considerations.
- Entering a market means that you will either expand the total market (serve new customers, eg by finding a niche that is currently untapped) or steal market shares from your competitors.
- Either strategy is fine. If you target new customers, you must identify their needs and design your offer accordingly. It can be an untapped region, a new service, etc. If you steal market shares, you must gain a competitive advantage. It can be on price, on quality, on products, on customer service, etc. Basically it can be on whatever key driver of the demand. That's where it helps to know your market.
- Either way, sustaining your competitive advantage is key. It's easy to enter the market with low prices, it's much more difficult to keep them low unless your cost structure is lower -by design- than that of your competitors (eg. Ryan Air).

This is really Corporate Strategy 101 but this is true for all businesses, from GE to the local grocery store. You don't need an MBA to know that, nor to "sustain your competitive advantage". Good business judgement is a plus, and you may use a few evening classes on marketing to help you on getting visibility and princing/promoting your services. But it's not rocket science.

If you can answer the questions:
- What do my customers really want/need?
- How can I do it better than my competitors?
- How do I prevent my competitors to imitate me?
...then you're mostly set from a business point of view. Photography skills are a whole different topic, and certainly not the least.

Francois, that must have been one of the most helpful pieces of advice I've read in this forum. Thanks very much for it. To be honest, I wasn't planning on doing an MBA at any top school. In fact, I was considering a distance learning one, so that I'd be able to work on my photography part time. Total cost in the region of $15k.

As regards the business, I guess it'd be at least partially stealing a market share. I'm always considering different ideas and ways to tackle my interest, but it's usually more a question of finding the problem to the solution, rather than the solution to a problem. Anyway, that's a question of creativity and innovation.

I do have a wish to somehow amalgamate photography with design/advertising/webdesign, but that is even further away in terms of realization...

[Picture North Carolina]

Great advice, Krapo. You can always tell an MBA-driven brain. Not just talking about business strategies, but in just talking about the degree itself, it always comes back to ROI. Funny. :lol: ;)

[airfrogusmc]

CONNECTIONS will trump just about everything. You have to have the chops or you will be very short lived but having the right connections knowing the right people in the right places is whats going to get you in the door and then its up to you to stay there.

[Krapo]

Great advice, Krapo. You can always tell an MBA-driven brain. Not just talking about business strategies, but in just talking about the degree itself, it always comes back to ROI. Funny. :lol: ;)

Ahah :) I guess after a while your thinking process becomes distorted. Too much time spent in consulting...

It can be even worse if you push it further ;) Every decision in life has an opportunity cost. If you choose to do an MBA, you forego two years of salary. If you go to the cinema with your wife, you bear the -non financial- cost of doing something else with your time, such as taking pictures!
That's why there is no free lunch in life!
Since you can consider a cost being an investment, you may expect a return on investment for each of your decisions... :)

But that's a bit far-fetched, even for a consultant...

[airfrogusmc]

Anybody taking a hard look at getting into photography strictly from a ROI point of view should probably choose another field. Like most say don't get into it to make a lot of money though you certainly can. But its not going to come easy and not without COST.

[Metalstrm]

Pardon my stupidity... but what is ROI?

Edit: Oh shoot, Return on Investment?

Don't worry, I'm not looking at photography as a business to make a lot of money. I will do it because I love the art, and of course, I'd just love to make money off my art. That's it in a nutshell.

[airfrogusmc]

Pardon my stupidity... but what is ROI?

Edit: Oh shoot, Return on Investment?

Don't worry, I'm not looking at photography as a business to make a lot of money. I will do it because I love the art, and of course, I'd just love to make money off my art. That's it in a nutshell.

Yes return on investment

If you're not in it for only the $$$ then you're off to a good start. Also my advice is keep shooting just for you. You might need to block out time to do it but your own work will help keep you from getting burned out.

[Gentleman Villain]

Anybody taking a hard look at getting into photography strictly from a ROI point of view should probably choose another field. Like most say don't get into it to make a lot of money though you certainly can. But its not going to come easy and not without COST.

Very true!

A good businessman makes money while he sleeps. He figures out ways to make other people work for him...and he figures out how to make the money that he already has earned continue to work for him

Photographers have to work or they don't make money. The only way to make money is to do shoots. So, it really doesn't take mega- business skills to be a photographer. It just takes a lot of hard work and a small amount of business understanding.

[airfrogusmc]

Very true!

A good businessman makes money while he sleeps. He figures out ways to make other people work for him...and he figures out how to make the money that he already has earned continue to work for him

Photographers have to work or they don't make money. The only way to make money is to do shoots. So, it really doesn't take mega- business skills to be a photographer. It just takes a lot of hard work and a small amount of business understanding.

Absolutely!!!

And the right connections. Thats why working in the field you are going to go into both teaches from the inside about that field which you will absolutely have to know and you meet people that can help you if ever you move out on your own. (I'm talking commercial photography)And don't burn bridges. You can never have to many friends out there.

[Metalstrm]

Great tips and advice fellows. I thank you all once again. This forum is great!