£1200 Photographers PC build advise

[lifethroughalens]

Hi there, looking for some geeky advise on a PC build if anyone can help?

*I'm getting a separate 24" screen on top of this build*


I have looked and looked....and looked again and again at the Apple range and no matter how much I try to convince myself that it would be worth it, I just can't press the 'buy' button on the fully spec'd 24" iMac or 17" MBP. I love the look of them both and I like OS X too...but my inner geek would never forgive me :lol:

So I reckon I'll have around £1,200 for a home build in 2 months time and was wondering what components are currently within this price bracket? It's been a couple of years since my last build so i'm well out of the loop on the tech and prices...

Primary uses will be pushing thousands of JPEGS around in CS4 each week and converting a lot of RAW files. Extensive photo retouching. Extensive video encoding / editing/ playback at 1080p and video editing in CS4 and Premier.

I'm not bothered about HD's since i'll just plug in several 7.2K TB drives.

I presume an i7 920 chip and i'll run Windows 7 64bit but I have no idea about graphics cards, cooling, cases, mother boards, PSU, RAM etc....Also one requirement is that it absolutely has to run dead quiet even when when pushed. I got so sick of hearing the hum of my old HP desktop from the other room!

Any advise would be appreciated. I'll use the usual places to order parts; ebuyer, microdirect, scan...

Cheers, Rod

[MaxxuM]

Apple is updateing their line very soon, so regardless I would wait if you are interested in a Mac. From what I hear prices are coming down and the iMac's will again have another boost in tech - maybe even quads :) and/or i7 CPUs. Just remember, you're paying more for reliablity, stability and 'comfort' of OS X. Think of it like buying a BMW or a Ford - if you are more comfortable in one over the other then cost really is 'second'. There are some people that will always believe that look and feel are more important than cheap and HP - it's up to you.

That you cannot press the button is probably the most telling thing about your preferences. If you have that much doubt about the purchase then you're likely not that much into the OS than just getting something 'nice'.

If you look through the posts you'll see many build's people are going with. There are probably dozens of them. Take a look and some up with some idea's and then pose questions about your selections. Learning how to build a machine will aid your selection more than people's opinions.

[basroil]

If you need dead quiet, but not the absolute max in terms of speed (any quad core will do what you are stating there), a s series quad core core2 chip sounds about right. You'll have to build it yourself (I don't know of any brands that have the chip), but it'll be well under $1200 (not including monitors) so even with the brit tax on top of everything it should be good.

If not, I think In2Photos made a quiet i7 920 rig a while back, and that will also be in the $1200 range depending on the exact specs. You can also stuff it with anti acoustic foams or casing.

As for OSX vs Vista, only thing you should worry about is which looks better/ has everything where you want it to be. Both are plenty reliable and stable regardless of what some people may say. I only restart my i7 rig with vista 64bit when my AV program (semantic endpoint) needs a major update or when I installed SP2 (which is like installing 10.6 on a new mac), and so far no problems with anything, including some shady third party drivers. Rather than maccum's BMW vs ford analogy, it's more of BMW vs volvo. Yes the volvo's "retro", but that "hunk of junk" will run you twice as much time before refusing to work with what you need it to work with.

My personal favorite for the thing you want (and price):
i7 920+ nice, large heat sink and low rpm fan
asus mobo with hardware raid, 7.1 audio, firewire and usb, 2x pci-e 16x 1x pci-e (or 8x) , esata+4 sata (primary group in 0, second in 1)
(subtotal there is about 700)
nice large case with half dozen fans (another 150)
pci-e sata card ( if you want even more storage, you can find a price on this)
two velociraptors (os+programs, maybe small (32gb) intel ssd if you have the money (don't know your prices))
two 1tb drives (primary storage)
ati 4850 or nvidia 260 gtx (former is cheap, latter is really good bordering on overkill)
500W+ (750 if you get something better as a card) psu
6gb ram (if you will be doing three million things, maybe 12gb, but 6gb tend to be enough for just about anything)


If you want dead quiet, have you checked out making your own mineral oil cooled pc? just about the most geeked out thing you can do, and if you get a cooling pad with 120mm fans for the cooling, it will be quiet.

[twofruitz]

Rod, you seem to be wanting exactly what I want; so I'll share my new system with you.

INTEL CORE i7 920 2.66Ghz 8meg CACHE LGA1366
GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD4 Intel
CORSAIR TR3X3 TRIPLE PACK 6gig (3x2gig DDR3) TR3X3-1600C9 1600mhz
CORSAIR TR3X3 TRIPLE PACK 6gig (3x2gig DDR3) TR3X3-1600C9 1600mhz
GIGABYTE GTX260PLUS / 216-S-P OVERCLOCK 896meg Model:GV-N26OC-896H
Western Digital 640 gig 7200rpm SATAII LS 32meg Cache CAVIAR BLACK Model: WD6401AALS
Western Digital 640 gig 7200rpm SATAII LS 32meg Cache CAVIAR BLACK Model: WD6401AALS

Case and power supply don't really matter. Just get something large and 750watt PSU should do comfortably.

This PC should be able to clock 3.6ghz with no worries whatsoever and the 2 drives will be raided in raid 0.

Let me know what you think.

[MaxxuM]

Rather than maccum's BMW vs ford analogy, it's more of BMW vs volvo.

Clever, but a bit crass for an open family friendly forum basroil.

And as analogies go, they are up to interpretation. I see Volvo as having far more in common with Mac's than PC's. I think of the analogy as luxury and dependability vs muscle and inexpensive - it depends what you want to pay. Volvo, BMW, Audi, Lexus are limited in the way of HP except for their expensive lines and even then don't have the HP of an American muscle car like the Camero SS at 400+HP; which is 1/5 the cost of most of the luxury line vehicles. I like comfort and style while you like power and inexpensive - personally, I think the PC world would be very bland if Apple thought your way.

[Moppie]

If we all lived in an Apple world we would get to choose our personal transport from the following list:

2 speed Vespa (the iPod)
3 speed Vespa (the iPhone)
Base model Audi A2 (Mac Mini
Base model Audi A2 with A/C (Mac Mini with 2GB of ram)
Base model Audi A3 (iMac)
Base model Audi A3 with A/C (iMac, with 2.8ghz)
Base model Audi A3 with A/C and C/L (iMac, with 2.8ghz and 2GB of RAM)
Base model Audi A3 with A/C, C/L and a Sunroof (iMac, with 2.8ghz and 2GB of RAM, and a 500GB HDD)
Top Spec Audi S8 (Mac Pro).

If you wanted to change anything or upgrade anything you would have to send the car back to Audi.
When the tyres wore out you would have to buy a new car, and it could only be another Audi.
You could only fit the car with Audi Branded accesories, and every 4 years they would release a new type of petrol that would be better than the last type, but only work in the newest models.



Fortunatly we live in a PC world, and you can go and buy an Audi, or a BMW or a Ferrari, or Ford, or a Toyota, or if you know how you can even build your own.


Since we live in the PC world, lets keep this tread on topic please.


Rod has asked for advice on specing a new i7 based system. Either offer advice on that subject, or keep your mouthshut.

[lifethroughalens]

If we all lived in an Apple world we would get to choose our personal transport from the following list:

2 speed Vespa (the iPod)
3 speed Vespa (the iPhone)
Base model Audi A2 (Mac Mini
Base model Audi A2 with A/C (Mac Mini with 2GB of ram)
Base model Audi A3 (iMac)
Base model Audi A3 with A/C (iMac, with 2.8ghz)
Base model Audi A3 with A/C and C/L (iMac, with 2.8ghz and 2GB of RAM)
Base model Audi A3 with A/C, C/L and a Sunroof (iMac, with 2.8ghz and 2GB of RAM, and a 500GB HDD)
Top Spec Audi S8 (Mac Pro).

If you wanted to change anything or upgrade anything you would have to send the car back to Audi.
When the tyres wore out you would have to buy a new car, and it could only be another Audi.
You could only fit the car with Audi Branded accesories, and every 4 years they would release a new type of petrol that would be better than the last type, but only work in the newest models.



Fortunatly we live in a PC world, and you can go and buy an Audi, or a BMW or a Ferrari, or Ford, or a Toyota, or if you know how you can even build your own.


Since we live in the PC world, lets keep this tread on topic please.


Rod has asked for advice on specing a new i7 based system. Either offer advice on that subject, or keep your mouthshut.


I love a good car analogy...everything I ever try to explain always comes back down to a car analogy!

And Moppie, you've delivered a cracker there :lol: - I can't see anyway to improve upon that. I mean I like Audi - but even the RS4 and RS6 can feel a little numb compared to the competition. It's just a shame that Apple don't get Lamborghini on board to make the Mac equivalent R8V10 & Murcielago!

Anyway, moving on to my i7 spec:

@TwoFruitz - Thanks for the spec list you're thinking of putting together- sounds great to me. I'd probably go for a slightly beefier graphics card - maybe the GTX260/70/80 or the XFX 4890XXX - total overkill, I know.

I've seen the UK's Overclockers running the i7 920 at over 4.2GHz reliably and at sensible temperatures so it's definitely got some head room!

@ basroil - Thanks for that, your proposed set up sounds almost spot on. Definitely an i7 set-up, I'm not too sure on the 2 Velocirators though - do you have any first hand experience on there noise levels? I also read a little about their longevity being somewhat stunted relative to the 7.2k drives. But i'm sure these are minor issues - this is normally the most bottlenecked area and the 10K drives would really help.

Must admit I'm not a fan of SSD's. I just don't think that the performance is anywhere near where it should be yet, let alone the small capacities & high prices. Also, there seems to be quite a few 'issues' popping up recently with early adopters having drives slow down over time and reliability issues.

I'll probably opt for as big an overkill as possible on the graphics card - maybe a 280GTX and a 750W PSU as you recommended. I like the idea of a water / mineral oil cooled set-up, (especially since i will overclock it) although I have no idea what parts i'd need for this and the pros/cons in such a set-up...i'll definitely have to do some reading up on this subject. On the other hand there's a lot to be said for keeping it simple...maybe I could just get away with lots of big diameter low RPM fans in the case?

I am completely non-plus about motherboards. No idea! What makes a good one or a great one is beyond me. I'll take anyone's specific advise on this :)

I'll probably opt for 2 1TB Firewire 800 external HD's and I already have a couple of 750GB esata external HD & cases and several USB 2 external HD's. USB 2 seems soooo slow these days, moving 100's of GB's around takes forever and I can't wait for USB 3 to make an appearance.

Lastly - I don't suppose the case matters that much, like twofruitz said ' just get something big'. I have some acoustic carpet left over from an ICE install years ago, so that'll probably come in useful for inside the case! Does anyone recommend and good makes of cases that have the best ventilation and acoustic properties?

Cheers for all your advise - i'm actually looking forward to this build now :)
(ps, I do love Macs too - they're just for pretty boys only IMO ;) . I'd take a 400HP Mustang ROUSH 427R Trak Pak over an R8 anyday!)

PS Good luck for Webber's first Grand Prix win in Germany?

[basroil]

I've seen the UK's Overclockers running the i7 920 at over 4.2GHz reliably and at sensible temperatures so it's definitely got some head room!

@ basroil - Thanks for that, your proposed set up sounds almost spot on. Definitely an i7 set-up, I'm not too sure on the 2 Velocirators though - do you have any first hand experience on there noise levels? I also read a little about their longevity being somewhat stunted relative to the 7.2k drives. But i'm sure these are minor issues - this is normally the most bottlenecked area and the 10K drives would really help.

I'll probably opt for as big an overkill as possible on the graphics card - maybe a 280GTX and a 750W PSU as you recommended. I like the idea of a water / mineral oil cooled set-up, (especially since i will overclock it) although I have no idea what parts i'd need for this and the pros/cons in such a set-up...i'll definitely have to do some reading up on this subject. On the other hand there's a lot to be said for keeping it simple...maybe I could just get away with lots of big diameter low RPM fans in the case?

I'll probably opt for 2 1TB Firewire 800 external HD's and I already have a couple of 750GB esata external HD & cases and several USB 2 external HD's. USB 2 seems soooo slow these days, moving 100's of GB's around takes forever and I can't wait for USB 3 to make an appearance.

Performance increases tend to fall off after about 3.8GH, but even at 3.8 benches put it at faster than the i7 965 even with the 4.8 limited qpi (965 is 6.4). Quiet and overclocked i7 don't exactly go hand in hand you know...

Raptors are known to be noisy, I just put them in there to show you that much money can buy a lot. I personally have two 500gb caviar black drives, but that's because I need the space rather than overkill performance. Still gets sustained speeds of 120-150mb/s though, so not slow by any means.

Unless you need overkill graphics, I say leave it behind and get at most 260. Graphics tend to be really loud as they get bigger, and you wanted quiet.

For mineral oil PC, you just need the internal components of a computer, a wide fin heat sink, silicone sealant, large aquarium tank, and a few liters of mineral oil. For more info (pictures mainly), http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

And 1394b (FB800) tends to quickly drop off in speed as the drive fills, esata is much more stable and has better overall performance. If you have a good esata controller too, you can get yourself an FIS switch so you can run five esata drives per esata port on your computer. Some FIS switches also have hardware RAID (1, 0, 1+0 are most common, some have 5/6) too.


Clever, but a bit crass for an open family friendly forum basroil.

And as analogies go, they are up to interpretation. I see Volvo as having far more in common with Mac's than PC's. I think of the analogy as luxury and dependability vs muscle and inexpensive - it depends what you want to pay. Volvo, BMW, Audi, Lexus are limited in the way of HP except for their expensive lines and even then don't have the HP of an American muscle car like the Camero SS at 400+HP; which is 1/5 the cost of most of the luxury line vehicles. I like comfort and style while you like power and inexpensive - personally, I think the PC world would be very bland if Apple thought your way.

First... c is next to x, being nearly 2 am when I wrote that in a dark room, slipups do occur... but it is quite interesting that the key slip still makes sense.

Second, you seem to be under the impression that Apple is an all knowing god with every product being better than every "PC" (hate this Apple term, they run glorified pcs anyway) ever made by anybody. Plenty of big, bad, expensive "pc"s with great build and nearly mac prices. Please admit that you are wrong on this aspect, and that you are only talking about low cost systems like HP and Dell's consumer lines (which have vastly improved anyway).

[Bobster]

Intel i7 920, D0 SLEBJ S1366, Nehalem, 2.66 GHz, QPI 4.8GT/s, 8MB Cache, 20x Ratio, 130W, Retail £208.35

Asus P6T7 WS SuperComputer, Intel X58, S1366, PCI-E 2.0(x16), Triple DDR3 2000 (OC), SAS/ SATA RAID £327.95

Silverstone KL03B £103.47

896MB Asus GTX 275 55nm, 2322MHz GDDR3, GPU 633 MHz, Shader 1404 MHz, 240 Cores + Terminator Game £149.81

3x 4GB Hynix Server Memory, DDR3, PC3-10600 (1333MHz), 240 Pin, Registered, CAS 9-9-9 £330.03

500W Silverstone Strider ST50F Silent 120mm Fan Dual +12V, 80%+ Eff' £52.87

total inc P+P from scan.co.uk £1,184.13

[basroil]

probably better so save a few by going with 3x2gb (usually less than half the price) and a 512mb 260 (maybe 20-30 less). Will also produce less heat.

[MaxxuM]

First... c is next to x, being nearly 2 am when I wrote that in a dark room, slipups do occur... but it is quite interesting that the key slip still makes sense.

Second, you seem to be under the impression that Apple is an all knowing god with every product being better than every "PC" (hate this Apple term, they run glorified pcs anyway) ever made by anybody. Plenty of big, bad, expensive "pc"s with great build and nearly mac prices. Please admit that you are wrong on this aspect, and that you are only talking about low cost systems like HP and Dell's consumer lines (which have vastly improved anyway).

1. Ahumm sure..

2. All knowing god? No, sorry, I can just keep my mind open and accept there is more than one solution for everyone.

No need to respond... unsubscribed.

[lifethroughalens]

Great suggestions Bobster :)

I spec'd up this one -

ASUS HD 4870 1GB GDDR5 Dual DVI HDTV out PCI-E Graphics Card -£220
Antec Twelve Hundred Case - £136
Gigabyte EX58-UD5 - £195
Intel i7 920 - £205
OCZ 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 1333MHz/PC3-10666 Platinum XTC Triple Channel Memory Kit CL7 1.65V - £84 (i read that above 1333MHz on the 920 wont really be noticeable?)
Coolmaster V8 - £55
Corsair 850W HX Modular PSU - £135
2x1TB Hitachi DeskStar 1TB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 16MB Cache -£110
1x Western Digital WD3000HLFS VelociRaptor 300GB Hard Drive SATAII 16MB Cache 10000rpm - £170 (Mainly for the OS and programs)
Wireless Keyboard & mouse £80

Total: £1,335


Ok, so it's a little over budget. I may ditch the Velociraptor drive - not sure...

Any thoughts?

I'll have a look at Bobster's suggestions tonight.

Cheers for your help, appreciated :)

[MaxxuM]

If we all lived in an Apple world we would get to choose our personal transport from the following list:

2 speed Vespa (the iPod)
3 speed Vespa (the iPhone)
Base model Audi A2 (Mac Mini
Base model Audi A2 with A/C (Mac Mini with 2GB of ram)
Base model Audi A3 (iMac)
Base model Audi A3 with A/C (iMac, with 2.8ghz)
Base model Audi A3 with A/C and C/L (iMac, with 2.8ghz and 2GB of RAM)
Base model Audi A3 with A/C, C/L and a Sunroof (iMac, with 2.8ghz and 2GB of RAM, and a 500GB HDD)
Top Spec Audi S8 (Mac Pro).

If you wanted to change anything or upgrade anything you would have to send the car back to Audi.
When the tyres wore out you would have to buy a new car, and it could only be another Audi.
You could only fit the car with Audi Branded accesories, and every 4 years they would release a new type of petrol that would be better than the last type, but only work in the newest models.



Fortunatly we live in a PC world, and you can go and buy an Audi, or a BMW or a Ferrari, or Ford, or a Toyota, or if you know how you can even build your own.


Since we live in the PC world, lets keep this tread on topic please.


Rod has asked for advice on specing a new i7 based system. Either offer advice on that subject, or keep your mouthshut.

I thought I was keeping it on topic. Unlike others here I do not try to dissuade anyone from anything by entering threads with a chip on my shoulder. Personally, I see the viability of both PC and Mac. I'll keep my mouth shut however and unsubscribe to this thread.

[Bobster]

if the OP had 2.5K to spend on a PC, i'd suggest a Mac Pro - best bang for buck as far as Xeon's go..

[Bobster]

No need to respond... unsubscribed.

I'll keep my mouth shut however and unsubscribe to this thread.
well hurry up :) ;)

[lifethroughalens]

if the OP had 2.5K to spend on a PC, i'd suggest a Mac Pro - best bang for buck as far as Xeon's go..

Well I don't! Two and a half thousand Pounds is a lot of money to spend on a Computer that sits under a table and costs £1000 more than an equivalent performing Non-Mac PC...which is why I started this thread :)

OSX isn't all that!

I'm very happy with the i7 / Windows 7 combo and my own NEC 24" screens for work purposes.

I might eventually buy a 13" Mac Book Pro for travelling though - I always find Apple's aversion to putting more than a couple of USB ports on any of their range, really annoying though. That and the silly in/out audio combo on the 13" MBP...but these are more annoyances that i'll live with. I do like the MacMini too.

I just wish Apple would allow paying customers to have as much flexibility in spec'ing their systems as a PC buyer has....and stop taking the pi$$ on the stupid incremental upgrades that cost a bomb - like charging a couple hundred quid for a tiny HD size increase! Then they might get more customers like me on-board. (I know Apple don't want me as a customer unless I'm willing to be fleeced of at least £2.5K...and that's fine by me)

[Vulcan58]

Try phoning Novatech.co.uk to get a system built to your own requirements.
You can talk to their folk, explaining what you need / want & they'll build to your own specs.
(No, I don't have any connection to this company, just good service & a great spec lappy).

[lifethroughalens]

Try phoning Novatech.co.uk to get a system built to your own requirements.
You can talk to their folk, explaining what you need / want & they'll build to your own specs.
(No, I don't have any connection to this company, just good service & a great spec lappy).

Cheers for that info Vulcan58 - i'll look into it tomorrow. :)

[Bobster]

if the OP had 2.5K to spend on a PC, i'd suggest a Mac Pro - best bang for buck as far as Xeon's go..

Well I don't! Two and a half thousand Pounds is a lot of money to spend on a Computer that sits under a table and costs £1000 more than an equivalent performing Non-Mac PC...which is why I started this thread :)

OSX isn't all that!
well actually, the equivalent performing PC costs more than Apple charge :)

however for non Xeon CPU systems, home grown is the way to go for performance ;)

[lifethroughalens]

well actually, the equivalent performing PC costs more than Apple charge :)

however for non Xeon CPU systems, home grown is the way to go for performance ;)

Wow...I didn't realise that. It's just an in built mantra I have :) Hey, I'm just a tad bitter that I don't have enough money to go buy all the fancy Mac stuff and not have to justify it in my head :)

Besides, I like tinkering with things that break and suffer inexplicable failures on occasions. Gives me a good excuse to take cars and PC's apart legitimately :)

[tim]

well actually, the equivalent performing PC costs more than Apple charge :)

however for non Xeon CPU systems, home grown is the way to go for performance ;)

Yeah, but apple systems use very high end parts, going lower end is fine, almost as fast, and way cheaper. As you know :)

[basroil]

I might eventually buy a 13" Mac Book Pro for travelling though - I always find Apple's aversion to putting more than a couple of USB ports on any of their range, really annoying though. That and the silly in/out audio combo on the 13" MBP...but these are more annoyances that i'll live with. I do like the MacMini too.

I just wish Apple would allow paying customers to have as much flexibility in spec'ing their systems as a PC buyer has....and stop taking the pi$$ on the stupid incremental upgrades that cost a bomb - like charging a couple hundred quid for a tiny HD size increase! Then they might get more customers like me on-board. (I know Apple don't want me as a customer unless I'm willing to be fleeced of at least £2.5K...and that's fine by me)

For 13" laptops, you should also look at the dell studio XPS 13, the successor to the original high spec mini (Well, sony beats them all in terms of tiny laptops with huge specs, but for some reason people don't like vaios. good to check them out too ). Shares the macbook's 2 usb port idiocy (hell, my 12.1" dell laptop has four), but at least one of them doubles as an esata port (hell yes!). Also includes expresscard, VGA d-sub, full sized display port (no funky adapters) , hdmi, geforce 9400 in hybrid mode OR 9500 in hybrid, and of course removable batteries (none of the features are available on the 13" mac). Yes, it's .4" thicker though (at back only smaller in front, and only a small percent larger cross sectional area) and .4 lb heavier, but you get an extra 10WHr from that .4 lb. Mac pro 13" is a really nice machine regardless though, and that or the dell will be good. Just remember that neither of the laptops feature isp or va screens, and both have LED backlight options for high gamut responses.
for these specs:

2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
LED Backlight
Bluetooth 2.1 EDRThe dell is $1349 and apple is $1649 (I would love to tell you the price for the sonys, but the site isn't working right now. starts at $1099 so expect mac level prices. it is lighter than either other laptop though), so about 850 and 1k pounds before any brit taxes (which I assume are quite high between VAT and other surcharges the companies may tack on).