Camera Store Profit Margins

[elai]

What are the margins of camera stores? I'm thinking a few of you here work in them or own a few. They all seem fairly price controlled, with retailers all selling the same lenses within $10 of each other. Is it just really thin profit margins or is there more padding to them?

[Picture North Carolina]

Don't know about local camera stores, but heard on Clark Howard the other day that Costco has a rule to never mark up any product in their stores more than 14%. So if you purchase a camera there, you are assured of that margin limit.

[twofruitz]

In Australia, the profit margin lies between -10% and 20%. On actual cameras, it averages at about 5-10% (very low)... I've been selling them for 6 years now and it's getting harder and harder to make money as people shop around more.

[SOK]

I've been selling them for 6 years now and it's getting harder and harder to make money as people shop around more.

Guilty.

I haven't bought anything from a 'bricks and mortar' camera shop for years.

Hard to go past the prices of the online places, particularly if they're local and let you pick the goods up.

[sapearl]

I've got a good local store that has access to pretty extensive inventory. He knows I shop around and keep an eye on the web - we even talk about it now and then.

I purchased my last three Canon lenses from him - when you calculated the cost of shipping he was either the same as B&H or no more than $20 above. That amount on A $1000 lens is relatively little, and helps him to stay in business. I enjoy the information he provides as well as other intangible services.

I due purchase items off the web, but I always give the local guy first shot at meeting or beating the price. - Stu

Guilty.

I haven't bought anything from a 'bricks and mortar' camera shop for years.

Hard to go past the prices of the online places, particularly if they're local and let you pick the goods up.

[Picture North Carolina]

I've got a good local store... when you calculated the cost of shipping he was either the same as B&H or no more than $20 above. That amount on A $1000 lens is relatively little, and helps him to stay in business...

I due purchase items off the web, but I always give the local guy first shot at meeting or beating the price. - Stu

Exactly. Keeping the local camera store in business is always my priority.

I have basically the same formula: I take the BH price, add shipping costs, then add a buffer of about $20-$25. This buffer is well worth it if you have problems with the product, need to return it, etc. The ability to do a quick, over-the-counter exchange with a local as opposed to packaging, shipping, and waiting for returns from another state is well worth the small $.

There is a local camera shop (Southeastern Camera) with multiple locations in NC that caters mostly to pros. They are almost always able to sell me something using the above formula.

There is no way to compare dealing with a local, friendly face who offers excellent service, advice, etc. with an internet entity off in some other universe.

[sapearl]

Absolutely totally agree with you Dan.

You simply cannot beat the easy convenience of popping into the neighborhood store - assuming a nearby brick & mortar - asking a quick question, learning a fast tip, or even getting a loaner or a "try before you buy rental". It's not as easy to do this with UPS :lol:. An extra few bucks is well worth the custom, available service.

Btw Dan, completely stunning B/W shot of that mill on your fine art page. I finally made the time to check out your link. ;) The work is gorgeous and your gallery navigates well. You do all the layout and html work?

Exactly. Keeping the local camera store in business is always my priority.

I have basically the same formula: I take the BH price, add shipping costs, then add a buffer of about $20-$25. This buffer is well worth it if you have problems with the product, need to return it, etc. The ability to do a quick, over-the-counter exchange with a local as opposed to packaging, shipping, and waiting for returns from another state is well worth the small $......

There is no way to compare dealing with a local, friendly face who offers excellent service, advice, etc. with an internet entity off in some other universe.

[Picture North Carolina]

Btw Dan, completely stunning B/W shot of that mill on your fine art page. I finally made the time to check out your link. ;) The work is gorgeous and your gallery navigates well. You do all the layout and html work?

Thanks, appreciate the comment and encouragement.

The base website I did. The gallery (estore) itself is Photocart by Pictures Pro (http://picturespro.com/). I went thru the coppermines, jalbums, and many of the flash and other gallery apps recommended here, but the investment into Photocart was worth it many times over. Absolutely no comparison.

[SOK]

Exactly. Keeping the local camera store in business is always my priority.

With the exception of this specific line, I completely understand and agree with what you're both getting at.

I should elaborate on my previous post...my favourite online shop is a far cry from a B&H type setup. Its a reasonably small, locally owned and run operation and their outlet is 5 mins from my office. The fact that they let you pick goods up in person, and happily answer questions over the phone means that I can get the best prices, a degree of human interaction when shopping, along with a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that I'm supporting a local business.

Having said all that...I don't feel it's my duty to keep any type of store (not just camera ones) in business, and I'm sure I could handle dealing with a big, faceless and distant organisation if the price was right...

[gooble]

In the Phoenix area there are really only two photography stores for pros. I don't know what their margins are but at least the one I frequent usually charges more for the Canon gear; maybe 5-10% more on average and sometimes higher than online. I do buy quite a lot from them but usually not Canon gear unless it competes with Amazon, B&H or Adorama. I would hate for them to go out of business as it is a real convenience to be able to go to a store to get something but I have a hard time spending $900 for a $750 lens. They do have gear rentals, repairs and printing too though so I'm not sure how much they're hurt by online retailers.

[birdman59]

I can't find a camera store within 75 miles of my house so I have to shop on line.

[Damaso87]

I find local shops are more hassle than they are worth. It could possibly due to the college-schmucks they hire to man the counter, or are just capitalizing off the rich, ignorant denizens of the area.

They ARE nice to go into and test out lenses, though...

[sapearl]

Other than the folks they hire though, how are the actual owners and managers? Perhaps you are dealing with the wrong individuals.

I find local shops are more hassle than they are worth. It could possibly due to the college-schmucks they hire to man the counter, or are just capitalizing off the rich, ignorant denizens of the area. .......

[Picture North Carolina]

I find local shops are more hassle than they are worth. It could possibly due to the college-schmucks they hire to man the counter, or are just capitalizing off the rich, ignorant denizens of the area.

They ARE nice to go into and test out lenses, though...

Other than the folks they hire though, how are the actual owners and managers? Perhaps you are dealing with the wrong individuals.

I'll agree with Stu, here. It's not the store, but rather the employee. But that is true in any business sector. I personally find it frustrating, even irritating, to go into any business that has employees who are clueless about the product they sell. And the manager / owner who allows the poorly-trained, clueless employee to represent their business is only harming themself.

[sapearl]

So true Dan.... so true.

When I encounter the "short timers" and see them for what they are, I don't treat them rudely or in any nasty fashion, but just bide my time until I see the manager or head sales guy is available. These are the folks you want to forge the long term relationships with.

Store managers aren't blind either. They'll see what's going on. Either they'll have a word with the short timer in an effort at "behavior modification", or you won't see that person anymore.

I'll agree with Stu, here. It's not the store, but rather the employee. But that is true in any business sector. I personally find it frustrating, even irritating, to go into any business that has employees who are clueless about the product they sell. And the manager / owner who allows the poorly-trained, clueless employee to represent their business is only harming themself.

[airfrogusmc]

Anybody care to guess one item that has some of the highest profit margins?

[holrd]

Film??

I cant stand going into the local store.

I ask "do you have a canon XXXXXX"
sales guy "no we specialize in Nikon, but i can order one and have it here next week or the week after"
I ask "do you have Gitzo tripods"
Sales guy "no we have Giottos, but i like the Gitzo, they are nice"

Everything i am looking for they dont have in stock or have no idea. From lighting gear, lenses, Ink for my 3800, photo paper, tripods, bags, to light modifiers. Its an exercise in futility to go in there. I have been in there at least a dozen times looking for stuff and only ever bought two things. One was a cable, but not the exact one i was looking for, and the other was a 60in umbrella when i was in a bind. I guess i need to move to an area that has a good store that doesnt just want to sell me Nikon.

[Picture North Carolina]

Film??

I cant stand going into the local store.

I ask "do you have a canon XXXXXX"
sales guy "no we specialize in Nikon, but i can order one and have it here next week or the week after"
I ask "do you have Gitzo tripods"
Sales guy "no we have Giottos, but i like the Gitzo, they are nice"

Everything i am looking for they dont have in stock or have no idea. From lighting gear, lenses, Ink for my 3800, photo paper, tripods, bags, to light modifiers. Its an exercise in futility to go in there. I have been in there at least a dozen times looking for stuff and only ever bought two things. One was a cable, but not the exact one i was looking for, and the other was a 60in umbrella when i was in a bind. I guess i need to move to an area that has a good store that doesnt just want to sell me Nikon.

Not carrying canon I can't understand unless Nikon has them locked up in some sort of special distributorship deal.

However, to be fair - cartridges for a 3800? I have one. If I recall, the compete ink set is $500 plus. I would never expect any retail store to stock such a specialized, high end item. It would sit in a warehouse until the tanks evaporated.

[alt4852]

Anybody care to guess one item that has some of the highest profit margins?

extended warranties, instructional dvds, and cheap filters?

[tkbslc]

I purchased my last three Canon lenses from him - when you calculated the cost of shipping he was either the same as B&H or no more than $20 above. That amount on A $1000 lens is relatively little, and helps him to stay in business. I enjoy the information he provides as well as other intangible services.



The biggest problem for me is sales tax. Shipping is free or under $20. Tax is 7%. So when I add on the extra for the camera store prices and then add on tax, I am looking at about $50-100 extra per lens or body to shop local. Add that up over a few purchases and you have sved enough for an extra mid-quality lens or flash.

I know it sucks and it is unfair, but I can't afford to "gift" money to the local guy to help them stay in business - especially when a big chunk of it is just going back to the state govt. I do try to purchase smaller ticket items locally where the convenience outweighs the small marginal costs.

[Willie]

Anybody care to guess one item that has some of the highest profit margins?

For Canon? Their lens hoods?

[sapearl]

That's where I'm in good shape. I have a vendor's license for my wedding and event work and don't pay sales tax. That's how "my" margin ends up being so close if not a wash. But I can certainly sympathize with those who do have to pay sales tax on big ticket items.

The local guy used to refer wedding business to me, so even if I paid a bit more it came back in dividends.

The biggest problem for me is sales tax. Shipping is free or under $20. Tax is 7%. So when I add on the extra for the camera store prices and then add on tax, I am looking at about $50-100 extra per lens or body to shop local. Add that up over a few purchases and you have sved enough for an extra mid-quality lens or flash. ......

[sapearl]

GF's Lightsphere? :lol::lol::lol:. Nah, probably more like inkjet ink, paper, filters..... and especially the extended warranties.

Anybody care to guess one item that has some of the highest profit margins?

[airfrogusmc]

According to a good friend I have that works at a large photography supply company its filters, all filters and its why they push them so hard. Inks and inkjet paters are right up there too. And those nutty warranties...

[ToddR]

For Canon? Their lens hoods?

Well, they're certainly making a percent or two on their tripod rings for the 70-200 f/4L! :rolleyes:

[tkbslc]

According to a good friend I have that works at a large photography supply company its filters, all filters and its why they push them so hard. Inks and inkjet paters are right up there too. And those nutty warranties...

When I worked at a computer store (back when they were expensive) it was the same way. Computers and monitors had about 5% markup, but the accessories were anywhere from 100-200% markup. The warranties are almost pure profit, which is why we got a 15% kickback as a commission for the warranties. So I can see that.

I would imagine filter, batteries, remotes, bags, grips, flash modifiers, etc, all have a very good markup. Which is why you can often find them on ebay for so cheap.

I dunno about ink. I know the ink maker is marking it up about 10,000%, but I am not sure if they let the store in on the deal or not.

[Willie]

Well, they're certainly making a percent or two on their tripod rings for the 70-200 f/4L! :rolleyes:

Agreed.

There's a black cheaper one for one of their other lenses that fits the 70-200, but I can't remember which lens right now.

[sapearl]

I can certainly believe those filters Allen. Makes total sense from "their" viewpoint.

Any time I've purchase a lens locally, or even mail-order via the phone the rep will offer their "special" on a filter. The local guy knows better than try to push the warranty gravy.;)

According to a good friend I have that works at a large photography supply company its filters, all filters and its why they push them so hard. Inks and inkjet paters are right up there too. And those nutty warranties...

[sapearl]

I'm sure it's quite substantial as you say. My R1800 which does a fine and very satisfying job, nonetheless still has those itsy bitsy cartridges. Even mail order out of Atlex.com in Miami they are not cheap.

Somebody once told me that based on the per-ounce cost, I'd be paying around $2,000/gallon. I never did the math but it wouldn't be hard to believe. :(

......I dunno about ink. I know the ink maker is marking it up about 10,000%, but I am not sure if they let the store in on the deal or not.

[tkbslc]

Somebody once told me that based on the per-ounce cost, I'd be paying around $2,000/gallon. I never did the math but it wouldn't be hard to believe. :(

http://hubpages.com/hub/Printerink

apparently it is 10x that according to that article. Unbelieveable!!!

But they are "Viveira" or "Chromalife" inks, so it is worth it, right? :rolleyes:

[Picture North Carolina]

A full set of ink for my Epson 3800, even with the lowest $ vendor, hovers around $500. FIVE HUNDRED BUCKS!

There ain't no way I will ever believe that the manufacturing cost of the plastic cartridge, chip, and the ink is even 10% of that!

Don't know if it's epson or the camera store making the majority of profit, but I can guarantee SOMEBODY'S pockets are bulging with cash!

[nphsbuckeye]

According to a good friend I have that works at a large photography supply company its filters, all filters and its why they push them so hard. Inks and inkjet paters are right up there too. And those nutty warranties...
That would explain how hvstar.com can sell filters for such a cheap price and stay in business.

[The Stig]

IF the local store is good and staffed with intelligent, knowledgeable people that can truly match your needs with appropriate product, and the price is reasonably close to what can be obtained online, I'll always vote to support that kind of business. You'll find that (as mentioned in some above examples) if you get to know them as a regular, their advice is valuable, and maybe some referrals pop your way. Plus if an issue ever arrives, it's much easier to handle in person than through shipping. That's not exactly 'gifting' someone money just to stay in business.

OTOH, if they can't tell you the difference between a Nikon and a Canon, or the employees are too busy texting on their cell phones to be bothered when you walk in - well, that's what mail order is for :-)

[elai]

So on cameras & lenses, the margin is about 10-20% any more numbers??

And you know whats so lame about large format inkjet printers? They're not really that different than the normal sized printers, except they have a wider rail & plastic housing to print with. The real cost difference is really $20 from your standard $100 printer. And why do you go with epson printers? Canon tends to not play the rip them on the ink game as much as other vendors.

[Karl Johnston]

I have a deal with a photoretailer who's giving me a discount through a job I did for his company. The way I understand it is I don't get the retailers markup factor that normal customers do, which is decent because if I ever shop there then I can get the added discount bonuses and I can save quite a bit.

I suppose its a bit of a plus on his side, too, because now that I get that discount I shop there a lot more than anywhere else. lol

[sapearl]

I'm not sure exactly why, but generally speaking Epson seems to be the choice of more photographers, artists, and graphic designers than Canon. That does not mean there is anything wrong with Canon, and I only have anecdotal info on this.

But I was under the impression that Canon also played the same price gouge game on the better photo printers.

...... And why do you go with epson printers? Canon tends to not play the rip them on the ink game as much as other vendors.

[Picture North Carolina]

I read an article about a year or so ago that also said that by an overwhelming margin, companies that do large format commercial printing (for people like us), use Epsons when it's an ink jet print.

[huntersdad]

My local store is well staffed and has well trained and knowledgeable people working there. Problem is they are priced considerably higher than B&H and will not match that price.

Good example - Canon 50 mm 1.8 B&H is roughly $100, local store is $130 before tax.

During Christmas, my wife went in there to buy my Tamron 17-50 2.8. B&H had it for $400 (I think). Local store wanted $500 (even though they had quoted me $400 and the guy she saw remembered doing it) and they wouldn't budge. Told her that the price was the best they could do.

I'll buy small items from them but never a lens or body or anything higher dollar. Not worth it.

[cnsconnor84]

the store closest to me has EVERYTHING. The only problem is that some of the staff just have this snobbish attitude. I actually applied to that store recently and was offered a job stocking shelves for $8.50/hr. No thanks. I was looking to be a salesperson at the camera/lens counter. One of the reasons i thought to apply in the first place was because every time I go in there more than half the staff seems to either not know anything about the products and/or just seem flat out miserable! I have found myself helping customers because I hear the staff talking to them and giving them bad advice or not informing them of certain things like rebates etc. Anyways, they would be lucky to have me, their loss. One of the reasons I would consider going to a local brick and mortar is for the knowledge and customer service. If they don't take that seriously then what is the point.

Also, I have asked this store if they could match a B&H price and they seemed offended. Is this rude to ask in your opinion. Many retailers do price matching so I thought it was worth a try.

[sapearl]

No, not rude at all - you are giving them the opportunity of first refusal.

So long as you approach them in a pleasant respectful manner, I see nothing wrong with allowing them to "bid" on a possible sale. And the refusal you got may have been from one of the snobs, or even at the wrong time of the year. The store may or may not have been "hungry" at that point, or even that time of the month.

Was it one of the actual managers or owners who refused you? Those are the folks you want to deal with. I would certainly try again in the future - you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. :D - Stu

.....Also, I have asked this store if they could match a B&H price and they seemed offended. Is this rude to ask in your opinion. Many retailers do price matching so I thought it was worth a try.

[cnsconnor84]

No it was just a customer service associate. This place has a few locations but the one I visit is the main location where the owners have their offices. I think I will take your advice and ask for a manager if not the owner next time. Another advantage I forgot to mention is the ability to be able to return something without the hassle of getting a return authorization form and all that hassle.(so long as there is no restocking fee) I hate those!

[Karl Johnston]

I read an article about a year or so ago that also said that by an overwhelming margin, companies that do large format commercial printing (for people like us), use Epsons when it's an ink jet print.
It's true, epson is industry standard

I wish I knew why, now.

I just know that they tell me it's the highest quality of printer out there for large format work

I know a guy that prints large format canon printers ...it has 10 heads and the ink is a bit cheaper than the epson but even after the epson 2880 you get some seriously crazy quality shooting out of these things.

I've never really seen a canon large format in action