Composition vs subject vs forfeit the shot

[slitherjef]

I got a question, or maybe a dilemma. I kind of chatted about this on my blog a little bit, but I thought I would just ask here and maybe get some thoughts and feedback.

My photos are basicly flat. I am starting to see why. After spending some time in the landscape photo forum and looking around, most photographs have a foreground, something that draws your eye in, lines or other things of interest. My photos? Most don't even have a foreground, nothing to draw the eye in. At first I thought this was just my subject matter was the problem, and I guess some of it is, but I guess looking back and looking at other successful photos, those have a good foreground.

I do know about composition, though I suppose from most of my photos, it may not look like it. A lot of the issue is, subject matter. I do enjoy shooting clouds and sunsets and so on, but often times I am close to my house and getting out is hard, so what does one do?

You see a nice sunset and you are stuck in the subburbs and you want to photograph it, or rather, take a snapshot (and I am starting to think most of my photos are just that, snapshots, at least according to the searches I have done on google).

How do you compose an image of a sunset or clouds or what not if there are buildings, tree tops cars and other crap in the way?

Capture the main subject along with the foreground junk? Try to figure out how to include the stuff in the foreground even though it has nothing to do with your subject? Just remove the foreground all together, which is something I try to do. Or do you just not lift the camera? What do you do if you are searching for halos or other optical phenomenon and you see a rare one from your back yard? Me personaly? I would take the shot and try to remove as much crap as I can, but a halo would look so much better say over halfdome, for example.

Are "photographs" dependent of location as well as time only or can a good photograph of say a sunset be made from your back yard if you live in the 'burbs? Or is one stuck making snapshots from backyards and good photographs with a good foreground and lead lines from, for example, Zion national park? If good, non snapshot-ish photographs can be made in your backyard, in the subburbs or even in the city, I would like to see examples because I have no idea how to blend a street full of cars and houses into a beautiful sunset.

[neilwood32]

You can use all the crap if you want - it all depends on how much "vision" you have.

Cityscape sunsets can be very dramatic, you just have to pick your spot.

Also theres a lot to be done with architecture - light streaming over the edge of a roof, silhouettes.

Just get away from thinking that all photos must follow the "rules".

[blackcap]

If I see an amazing sunset but don't have any decent foreground, I simply don't take the shot. Or if I did I wouldn't show it to anyone, because it's not a decent photo. That's what makes decent landscape photography harder than it sounds - it's not simply a case of being at a nice location or getting good light, you really have to have both.

[PFDarkside]

The urban landscape can provide very interesting foreground subjects. The suburban landscape is severalfold more difficult. Look for parks and historic districts that you can access quickly when you see conditions developing. That way you at least have some raw potential to work with.

[DunnoWhen]

Why make the shot about the sunset?

Why not put something interesting about 5ft in front of your 24mm lens, F11, focus at 10ft (or set accurate hyperfocal distance), get low and shoot. It then becomes an image of the interesting object with a great sunset.:)

[argyle]

Good Lord, you live in Colorado...get out and make the best of it. ;) There's plenty to shoot on both sides of the Rockies. You have to come to the realization that great pictures don't come to you, you need to go to them. My advice would be to leave the back yard and hit the road, do some exploring, and be thankful that you actually have four seasons to work with (unlike us denizens of north central Texas). Bone up on hyperfocal distance, be aware of the times of day for optimal shooting (not always realistic, but try to schedule your shooting around the golden hours). Good landscape shooting requires patience...and don't worry about "snapshots"...we all take them. :D

[slitherjef]

Why make the shot about the sunset?

Why not put something interesting about 5ft in front of your 24mm lens, F11, focus at 10ft (or set accurate hyperfocal distance), get low and shoot. It then becomes an image of the interesting object with a great sunset.:)

You mean like the neighbors chevy blazer infront of a blazing sunset :D

I am trying to put more thought into my shots, I did find a park last night that had a pond, some ducks, damselflys and a housing community in the area:

http://home.comcast.net/~slitherjef/sunsets/lining.jpg

So I thought I would visit and take some shots. Would probably be worth going back again and try to use things to my advantage

[neilwood32]

Good start Allan.

If you had taken this shot a bit earlier, you would have gotten more detail into the lower half (although you would have missed out a bit on the clouds).

If you shoot RAW, you may be able to recover some of the foreground detail without losing the sky (esp in the later versions of Adobe Camera RAW).

[DunnoWhen]

You mean like the neighbors chevy blazer infront of a blazing sunset :D

No, I said something interesting:) (I'm assuming that's some sort of car, right?;))

If you turn on "Imaging Editing OK" you'll be allowing people to edit your photos and some kind person may be able to post an example of what I mean.

[jacuff]

How do you compose an image of a sunset or clouds or what not if there are buildings, tree tops cars and other crap in the way?

Are "photographs" dependent of location as well as time only or can a good photograph of say a sunset be made from your back yard if you live in the 'burbs? Or is one stuck making snapshots from backyards and good photographs with a good foreground and lead lines from, for example, Zion national park? If good, non snapshot-ish photographs can be made in your backyard, in the subburbs or even in the city, I would like to see examples because I have no idea how to blend a street full of cars and houses into a beautiful sunset.

If the crap can be made into an interesting silhouette... do it. Shot this just outside my office in the city.
http://www.justinacuff.net/potn/679759-11.jpg

[mikekelley]

You can always use photoshop to put neat stuff in there, also :D

[tigerotor77w]

http://home.comcast.net/%7Eslitherjef/sunsets/lining.jpg

So I thought I would visit and take some shots. Would probably be worth going back again and try to use things to my advantage

Can you get on top of that hill in the midground? It looks as if you're facing west (lens pointed toward the west) in this shot; sometimes, what the red sunsetting sun illuminates is also worth capturing -- buildings, people, even cars.

Different vantage points -- up high or down low -- can also make a difference in the shot that you capture.

Ironically, I am having the same types of head-scratching questions. I had the same questions when I was in Seattle -- not too many unobstructed vistas of a Rainier sunset -- but wandering around a little bit allows you to see what works and what doesn't. And to reiterate argyle's point... you're in Denver, of all places! It shouldn't be hard to find something to shoot [at] someplace that makes it all worth it.

[robbug]

Here is a good reference (http://www.amazon.com/Photographers-Eye-Composition-Design-Digital/dp/0240809343) for how to set up composition. It goes in good detail with some examples. A perfect B&N coffee book :) or you could buy it and reference it.


Hope that helps

Rob

[slitherjef]

Can you get on top of that hill in the midground?

I could but buildings and cars as well as other junk starts to get back in the way. I did get back to the park, in pretty much the same spot as last time, but I stuck a 50mm on the camera this time instead of the 11-16mm.

[slitherjef]

Here is a good reference (http://www.amazon.com/Photographers-Eye-Composition-Design-Digital/dp/0240809343) for how to set up composition. It goes in good detail with some examples. A perfect B&N coffee book :) or you could buy it and reference it.


Hope that helps

Rob

Already got it. :)
Its not the composition really, its more the junk that is in my way while taking a shot, that is the major issue. It sort of feels like I don't have room to shoot what I want.

Oh, and jacuff, that is what I am talking about!


I also like doing macro and close ups:
http://home.comcast.net/~slitherjef/macro/dfly6.jpg

But I really dig shooting sunsets and the sky colors, and that leaves to the issue of not having enough room since there are houses, cars, people and other things. I guess the only option is, snapshots and home and try to get out for some serious shooting, but I don't drive so that makes it hard to get out

[jacuff]

Another hint, since you like shooting sunsets and sky colors, is to use a longer focal length. Instead of shooting on the wide angle side of things, shoot telephoto. This will allow you to block out a lot of that crap and hopefully let you compose something a little more interesting.

[Traumuh]

I live in the 'burbs' too and it is dreadful. :(

[rw2]

Your sunset shot is good. A little work in the shadows will bring the fairground into play.

[bps]

I live in the 'burbs' too and it is dreadful. :(

There's always something to shoot...try getting out on the edge of the suburbs. Find a cemetery and get low. I'm talking real low...like inches off the ground and then frame a cross against a dramatic sky.

Don't get me wrong -- we all fall into creative ruts. But that's when you just have to get out there even more and step outside of the box...

Bryan

[technodunce]

Get on the roof of your house. Or up high somehow.