Colours screwed - Photoshop shows something, windows displays something else

[hawk54]

Hey all..

I recently calibrated my monitor using Calibrize. I hadn't used PS after that. But I used it today, and I tuned the colours of the pic the way I wanted them. Saved as JPEG. Opened in Picasa photo viewer and the colours were faded out, whereas I had them saturated quite a bit in PS CS2. I tried setting it as desktop background, but same problem. I even uploaded it to Flickr, but still the same problem.

I'm using Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit. I've never faced this problem earlier.
Any help would be appreciated, because right now I can't post process anything!

See the attached image for an idea of what I'm saying.

[In2Photos]

Welcome to the forum!

Check out these two threads:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=707058

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=296149

There is a ton of info, but the answers are there.

[hawk54]

@In2Photos - Thanks a lot for the welcome as well as the answer. I see stuff related to my query, but haven't gone through the whole of it. Will find the answer hopefully :)

[In2Photos]

@In2Photos - Thanks a lot for the welcome as well as the answer. I see stuff related to my query, but haven't gone through the whole of it. Will find the answer hopefully :)
My guess is that you are viewing a non-srgb image in a non color managed application. This always leads to faded or muted colors. In order to know for sure we need actual images though and not screen shots. Make sure you save the images with the profile embedded.

[René Damkot]

Yeah, Picasa isn't color managed. Neither were most browsers (Safari and FF3 are changing that)

PS is right, the others are wrong.
Simply said, a non color managed program sends the image "straight to the video card", so you are seeing the difference between the images embedded profile and your monitor profile.

Use sRGB for web, since that's what's expected.
If you want to use the image as background image on your screen (not sure if having a bright green background is a good idea when working with images ;)), then convert it to your monitor profile in PS. Then it'll show up identical in a non color managed application and a color managed application on your computer.

[basroil]

Yeah, Picasa isn't color managed. Neither were most browsers (Safari and FF3 are changing that)

PS is right, the others are wrong.
Simply said, a non color managed program sends the image "straight to the video card", so you are seeing the difference between the images embedded profile and your monitor profile.

Use sRGB for web, since that's what's expected.
If you want to use the image as background image on your screen (not sure if having a bright green background is a good idea when working with images ;)), then convert it to your monitor profile in PS. Then it'll show up identical in a non color managed application and a color managed application on your computer.


Firefox 2 had color management if you enabled it :rolleyes:

But other than that, yea, OP just needs to learn about color management.

[René Damkot]

Firefox 2 had color management if you enabled it :rolleyes:

No, it didn't.
IE for mac did. Safari does, but only for tagged images.

FF3.0 was the first Mozilla browser using Color management (http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2007/08/color-management-support-added-to-firefox-3/), and it's fully color managed.
FF3.5 has color management enabled by default, but it's a bit buggy sometimes, and doesn't support V4 profiles. 3.5.1 should fix both issues.

There are a few more color managed browsers: Omniweb for Mac, the next version of Chrome, Flock 2.5 (using the FF3.0 Color management plugin)

[basroil]

No, it didn't.
IE for mac did. Safari does, but only for tagged images.

FF3.0 was the first Mozilla browser using Color management (http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2007/08/color-management-support-added-to-firefox-3/), and it's fully color managed.
FF3.5 has color management enabled by default, but it's a bit buggy sometimes, and doesn't support V4 profiles. 3.5.1 should fix both issues.

There are a few more color managed browsers: Omniweb for Mac, the next version of Chrome, Flock 2.5 (using the FF3.0 Color management plugin)

yes, meant 3 not 3.5 (as some think) and not 2 (though there were some plugins that helped). Had a major brain fart.;)

[hawk54]

Okay.. I agree that I really need to learn about colour management...

I re-calibrated my monitor, but its still not the same as PS. Also, I noticed that FF 3.5 is a colour managed app and so checked my flickr in Firefox - and waddaya know - its the same as PS!

So then I checked my monitor settings and the profiles and all, but wasn't able to figure out how to get the monitor to use the proper profile..

Am attaching screenshots of PS settings as well as monitor settings.. hopefully I'm close to the solution..

I state again that all was well before I calibrated my monitor...

[hawk54]

Here's the last one, since there's a max of two attachments..

[basroil]

you need to change that "off" to "don't change".

[hawk54]

I did. In fact it was like that only earlier. I'd switched it just to see if it made a difference.

Current status: Photoshop correct, monitor and other non-colour-managed apps incorrect.. what to do??

[basroil]

get a spyder or other hardware calibrator and calibrate. The program will automatically update the windows defaults and then everything should look better unless you export to a non-srgb thing, and then you're just out of luck.

[hawk54]

Well, is there no way to do it without getting a spyder or any other device? Like configuring windows to use the same profile as photoshop n stuff..?

[René Damkot]

Even when you calibrate the screen with a Spyder, you'll still see a difference between a color managed application and a non color managed one. That's just the way it is.

Like I said: If you want to use the image as background image on your screen, then convert it to your monitor profile in PS. Then it'll show up identical in a non color managed application and a color managed application on your computer.

PS settings should be like this:
http://img.skitch.com/20090715-bgt43f9f83bry4ix4ergnj16qc.jpg

[hawk54]

@Rene - Thanks. I made the changes.

What I did finally was to uninstall the program I'd used to calibrate the display, and remove all profiles associated with the monitor (which is a laptop monitor by the way - Dell Studio 1555). I then set sRGB as the default monitor profile. Now the colours on non-colour-managed apps look the same as they were earlier, only difference is that PS and Firefox match those colours.

I did however calibrate the display using this test: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

Now everything matches as it was before I'd installed calibrize (after installation, the only the colour managed applications showed a change, which was reversed when I uninstalled). But I'm not sure if this is how its supposed to be. I guess the only way to verify properly would be with a print. I cannot purchase a calibration device at this moment.

EDIT: I tried using Adobe Gamma, but it refused to open for some reason. I click, waiting pointer shows, and then nothing happens.

[René Damkot]

I then set sRGB as the default monitor profile. Now the colours on non-colour-managed apps look the same as they were earlier, only difference is that PS and Firefox match those colours.
Obviously, since PS and FF now hink that sRGB is the monitor profile. It isn't, and accuracy went out of the window...

I did however calibrate the display using this test: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/
That's not calibration. You just test some settings. No icc profile is created.

Now everything matches as it was before I'd installed calibrize (after installation, the only the colour managed applications showed a change, which was reversed when I uninstalled). But I'm not sure if this is how its supposed to be.
It's logical you no longer see a difference between color managed and non color managed applications, but no, it's not how it's supposed to be.
You now set the wrong profile as display profile, so anything on screen will be displayed incorrect. In fact, the images were probably more accurate displayed in PS before you set sRGB as monitor profile.

I guess the only way to verify properly would be with a print. I cannot purchase a calibration device at this moment.
Maybe you can rent or borrow one?
Or use one of the "calibration" software solutions (such as calibrize)

Like I said, you'll always see a difference between a color managed application and a non color managed one. That's just the way it is. (if you set the proper monitor profile, and the image is in a color space that's anything other than that monitor profile)

[hawk54]

@Rene - Thats how it started in the first place. I calibrated using Calibrize, and I was getting different results in PS/Firefox and desktop/picasa. From what you say, thats how it should be right?

What I'm asking is can I not see the same (correct) results in both? And I should remove sRGB as the monitor profile (in which case there won't be any profile associated with it) right?

[In2Photos]

@Rene - Thats how it started in the first place. I calibrated using Calibrize, and I was getting different results in PS/Firefox and desktop/picasa. From what you say, thats how it should be right?

Correct. Non-color managed applications will always appear different than color managed applications.


What I'm asking is can I not see the same (correct) results in both? And I should remove sRGB as the monitor profile (in which case there won't be any profile associated with it) right?
sRGB is a color space, not a monitor profile. The profile is created when you calibrate or from the monitor manufacturer. With a laptop I am unsure if a profile is included.