Douche photographer...

[tony rage]

So I attended a local meet & greet for photogs and models this past weekend. I only knew a couple of ppl there so I decided to sit down and chit-chat. Next to us there was another photog with his big portfolio folder and slideshow ready laptop who I decided to talk to and look at his work. I must say it was not very impressive, the guy had good locations for photos and good stories for them but that was about it. Thats not the problem to me, I know my stuff is not that great yet but anyway...
A young Highschool photographer came to us and showed his work on Highschool sports, which was pretty well presented and of pretty decent quality. much like sport jounalism.
The one photog asked- "what camera are you shooting with?" to which he replied-"A canon Rebel Xti"... The photog made a "face" and went on to say-"you need to sell that crap and buy you at least a 30D, you will see the difference in your photography right away..." .

Im sorry!... why is this guy telling this to this kid, when the kids photos were 10 times better than his???? .... hell! I shoot with a XTI, and even though I know im not the best, I have been able to capture beautiful images!!! some even better than someone with a 40D... or 50D... or a MKII... I told the kid not to pay attention to him... Ive shot wedding with mine... televised sports with mine... models with mine... concerts with mine... theres nothing wrong with an entry level camera... its all about who stands behind it as far as im concerned...

Thats it...

oh yeah! later on this photog interupted a shoot I was doing by bringing his several reflectors and trying to "Teach" me how to use my flash.
:rolleyes:
thought i'd share.... oh yeah, If he's a member.... I dont really care.

[binlerne]

He meant well and was only trying to help, but if his work was as poor as you state, just smile and nod. Not much you can do.

[JWright]

The saying "Legend in his own mind..." comes to mind here. there are a lot of people out there that have an inflated sense of self-worth.

If someone interrupted a shoot I was doing, I would have no difficulty telling him what he could do with his reflectors and where he could go...

[Chet]

That was you?

[CosmoKid]

Your post is worded terribly. Take a look at some of my posts to see how to effectively communicate your points.

What type of keyboard are you working on? I only type on Logitechs. At minimum you should have a Logitech Wave. You will see an immediate improvement in your posts just by switching to that keyboard.



Sounds funny when you apply the same theory to a different topic.

[Naturalist]

I'm glad you told the kid to not pay attention to the guy's unfounded criticism.

Yeah, Cosmokid, like the retorical "That was a great dinner. You must have some excellent pans in the kitchen!" lol

[stathunter]

O agree with naturalist -- cameras are simply a tool.... there are limitations with every tool but the majority of people cannot push the limitations of their camera.

[nicksan]

I gotta say, if what the guy was saying bothered you in any way, perhaps it's more a reflection on you than him. He's just being the Mr. Know-it-all guy that you ALWAYS get at gatherings. ALWAYS! It's up to you to ignore him or let it affect your emotions.

If he was clearly talking out of his butt, then it should have been easy for you to just say "He's an idiot, let me ignore him" and go about your business.

Easier said than done I know...b/c we all have that side in us...but it is what it is.

I'm glad you told the kid to not pay attention to the guy's unfounded criticism.

Yeah, Cosmokid, like the retorical "That was a great dinner. You must have some excellent pans in the kitchen!" lol

I get "That camera must take great photos" all the time and never once did it offend me b/c I know 1) they mean well 2) I don't expect strangers to know about my skills. Life is simply too short to worry about stuff like that...

[tony rage]

I gotta say, if what the guy was saying bothered you in any way, perhaps it's more a reflection on you than him. He's just being the Mr. Know-it-all guy that you ALWAYS get at gatherings. ALWAYS! It's up to you to ignore him or let it affect your emotions.

If he was clearly talking out of his butt, then it should have been easy for you to just say "He's an idiot, let me ignore him" and go about your business.

Easier said than done I know...b/c we all have that side in us...but it is what it is.




I get "That camera must take great photos" all the time and never once did it offend me b/c I know 1) they mean well 2) I don't expect strangers to know about my skills. Life is simply too short to worry about stuff like that...

i see what you are saying. I was just sharing an experience. It bothered me more that he was telling that to a kid. just like the person that always advices you to buy something better like you have a money tree, ya know? "I was thinking about this mitsubishi" ---" no man, those are crap, just buy this ferrari, you wont regret it..."

Also, you might have missed the part where he interrupted my shoot and try to tell me how to use my flash and then.... asked for my camera so he can go show someone else the difference between a pic with a reflector and one without... c;mon! hahaha its hilarius!

[nicksan]

i see what you are saying. I was just sharing an experience. It bothered me more that he was telling that to a kid. just like the person that always advices you to buy something better like you have a money tree, ya know? "I was thinking about this mitsubishi" ---" no man, those are crap, just buy this ferrari, you wont regret it..."

Also, you might have missed the part where he interrupted my shoot and try to tell me how to use my flash and then.... asked for my camera so he can go show someone else the difference between a pic with a reflector and one without... c;mon! hahaha its hilarius!

Yeah...I can see how that would be annoying. Nothing worse than some overzealous know-it-all just itching to share his/her "knowledge" unsolicited!:lol:

[Karl Johnston]

His attitude and communication was a inappropriate for the kid..though the 30D is better than the rebel, point regarding he should have communicated that in a better manner.

Sounds like a bit of an airhead...oh well, it'll bite him back one day but for now don't worry about it. I suppose what you could do in future, of seeing a situation like that, is go over and smooth things over yourself or talk to the highschool kid about how the guy is full of himself and give him or her a few pointers of your own.

[amonline]

LOL Lot's of douches out there like that, but I've seen some images from rebels that blow away some of the best stuff out there done on high end bodies. It's all in the real talent. You did the right thing telling the kid to ignore him. Sounds like some overzealous gear head that thinks he knows it all. Some people are simply blind to where their true level stands. :rolleyes: Good on you for sticking up for the kid. :)

[bjyoder]

I gotta say, if what the guy was saying bothered you in any way, perhaps it's more a reflection on you than him. He's just being the Mr. Know-it-all guy that you ALWAYS get at gatherings. ALWAYS! It's up to you to ignore him or let it affect your emotions.

If he was clearly talking out of his butt, then it should have been easy for you to just say "He's an idiot, let me ignore him" and go about your business.

Easier said than done I know...b/c we all have that side in us...but it is what it is.

I totally disagree. Just because someone like that is "ALWAYS!" there, doesn't mean they have to be ignored. You don't not ignore or let your emotions be effected by the comedian that's "ALWAYS!" in the comedy club.

I am glad something was said to the highschool kid; idiots like that get too many people paying attention to them, which only feeds their attitude.

[Bullfrog142]

... The photog made a "face" and went on to say-"you need to sell that crap and buy you at least a 30D, you will see the difference in your photography right away...

His inadequacies are not your problem.

[nicksan]

I totally disagree. Just because someone like that is "ALWAYS!" there, doesn't mean they have to be ignored. You don't not ignore or let your emotions be effected by the comedian that's "ALWAYS!" in the comedy club.

I am glad something was said to the highschool kid; idiots like that get too many people paying attention to them, which only feeds their attitude.

Comedian in the comedy club? I don't get the analogy. You are at a comedy club for comedy. If you don't like the particular brand of humor, you leave...just like how you would ignore the photographer.

I have encountered photographers like that. They are just itching to "teach" you. I politely walk away. No thanks...

[JWright]

O agree with naturalist -- cameras are simply a tool.... there are limitations with every tool but the majority of people cannot push the limitations of their camera.

Right... If I go out and buy a tool belt and a 32 Oz framing hammer, does that make me a carpenter? You wouldn't want me building your house, that's for sure...

I totally disagree. Just because someone like that is "ALWAYS!" there, doesn't mean they have to be ignored. You don't not ignore or let your emotions be effected by the comedian that's "ALWAYS!" in the comedy club.

I am glad something was said to the highschool kid; idiots like that get too many people paying attention to them, which only feeds their attitude.

It wasn't KR by any chance?

[DStanic]

Wow that guy is an idiot. He must not have started on a Rebel (or perhaps it was an old 300D or something). I really can't tell the difference in IQ between my XTi and 30D. I *think* the 30d has more natural looking colors (seem to be doing less PP work now) but that could be because I'm just getting more skilled in general (I've had the XTi close to 2yrs, 30D several months). Of course there are other things the 30D has that makes things easier, but that does not mean the XTi is more limiting to me. It makes a great backup camera until I can afford "the next step up" and keep the 30D as back up and sell the XTi to someone who wants to learn how to take fantastic pictures. :)

[bjyoder]

It wasn't KR by any chance?

:lol: Nice one.

And Nick, I can't think of a better analogy right now. My point is just that, to say people shouldn't effect your emotional state, is wrong. In a situation like that, you shouldn't let it ruin your day, but thinking it won't affect you is silly.

[rral22]

:lol: Nice one.

And Nick, I can't think of a better analogy right now. My point is just that, to say people shouldn't effect your emotional state, is wrong. In a situation like that, you shouldn't let it ruin your day, but thinking it won't affect you is silly.

Actually it's not silly at all. If you go through life allowing other people to be responsible for your emotional state, you will spend a lot of time in the wrong state.

You *should* be able to just ignore such people.

[Veemac]

The saying "Legend in his own mind..." comes to mind here. there are a lot of people out there that have an inflated sense of self-worth...
The term "gear snob" comes to mind also. Must have made him feel awful big and important, having a better camera than a high school student.

OTOH, giving him the (extreme) benefit of the doubt, he may have meant well - some people just have absolutely lousy "people skills".

[bjyoder]

Actually it's not silly at all. If you go through life allowing other people to be responsible for your emotional state, you will spend a lot of time in the wrong state.

You *should* be able to just ignore such people.

Today I had a guy take out some unjustified road rage on me. It fired me up for a bit, but after about 5 minutes talking to someone else, I damn near forgot all about it; the way I practically always do. Humans are emotional, and other people will have an effect on you. How you choose to deal with it after that is totally up to you.

I think the OP dealt with it the right way. Basically ignored the guy, told the kid not to worry about it, and went on about his day. When he got to a place he could vent about it, he did.

[Digital_zen]

WhattaDooshh!
But srsly I have been told recently that I should teach basic and/or nature photography, how does one know when he/she IS ready to teach,...or for that matter, offer advice?
I do however understand things like the costs of equipment, (painted an 8'x12' mural on the side of a out-building for my XT) and that someone could build a wooden box with a peephole lens in their kitchen and walk away with better shots than I can get with said XT. It really depends on quite a few things, as to "useful" or "effective" any given image is for a particular purpose or for communicating a certain point.
But is there something about this understanding that will justify me or anyone else giving advice, or even teaching a short-course?

[PhotosGuy]

"you need to sell that crap and buy you at least a 30D, you will see the difference in your photography right away..." . As you said, "I must say it was not very impressive," so it didn't help him much, did it? ;) But is there something about this understanding that will justify me or anyone else giving advice, or even teaching a short-course? First, you don't have to know everything. You just need to know more than they do? Present the concepts & give clear answers to the questions. Photography is easier than most because you can show examples while you talk.
I found out after high school that my algebra teacher hadn't had algebra in college. But he studied nightly, kept ahead of us, & gave clear explanations. He was the best math teacher I'd ever had, including the ones in college.

[ebann]

oh com'on! everyone knows that if we had a 1D3 we'd all be taking gorgeous pictures... of our empty box collections!

[OdiN1701]

Oh man I wish I was there. I'd put the guy in his place.

Mainly because I always say that tact is something invented by those who have no wit.

So I wouldn't care if I did it in front of his peers - sometimes you just need to.

[nicksan]

Oh man I wish I was there. I'd put the guy in his place.

Mainly because I always say that tact is something invented by those who have no wit.

So I wouldn't care if I did it in front of his peers - sometimes you just need to.

If you really did "put the guy in his place" then you'd be no better than that guy.

It's the "who's got the bigger stick" syndrome.

I would just leave it be...idiots will always be idiots. You either lower yourself to their level or you move on.

Easier said than done of course...:D;)

[OdiN1701]

If you really did "put the guy in his place" then you'd be no better than that guy.

It's the "who's got the bigger stick" syndrome.

I would just leave it be...idiots will always be idiots. You either lower yourself to their level or you move on.

Easier said than done of course...:D;)

Right....I don't think you understand. If you want to let people walk all over you, go right ahead. To be insulted by the guy coming and telling you how to shoot flash and just grin and take it? Sorry but that doesn't fly with me. It's no skin off my back to say something to him. Just because I would doesn't mean I would be at his level or be rightfully compared to the guy. I'm not the guy telling this aspiring high schooler that his camera sucks and can't possibly make any good photos.

[rral22]

"Become the change you want to see in the world." - Gandhi

[OdiN1701]

"Become the change you want to see in the world." - Gandhi

I agree.

[Digital_zen]

Thanks Photosguy, (again, u-rock) turns out I'm ready then! LOL Easier said than done, to provide information in a clear concise manner, so that a room full of ppl at different levels of photographic education can all absorb it.
I will go ahead and check into the continuing education dept. at UGA soon. I actually took two courses there years ago.

[nicksan]

Right....I don't think you understand. If you want to let people walk all over you, go right ahead. To be insulted by the guy coming and telling you how to shoot flash and just grin and take it? Sorry but that doesn't fly with me. It's no skin off my back to say something to him. Just because I would doesn't mean I would be at his level or be rightfully compared to the guy. I'm not the guy telling this aspiring high schooler that his camera sucks and can't possibly make any good photos.

I don't get the impression that the overzealous photographer in the OP's story was "stepping all over" him. Not at all. It was an annoyance. You can either go ahead and play his game, or ignore it. Personally, life's just too short to deal with each and every idiot I encounter on a near daily basis.

Now if the person was being threatening to me, or interrupting a paid shoot or something to that effect, then that may be a different story. But even then, cooler heads usually prevail.

IMO, a knee-jerk reaction is the least desirable option. I admit, sometimes it's difficult to control one's emotions, but that's the way I TRY to approach things. (As I reach for a container of Tums...;):lol:)

"Become the change you want to see in the world." - Gandhi

That's easy. I am already ME...and I want everyone in the world to be just like me. ;-) :lol:

[OdiN1701]

After his comment to the kid, seeing his work (if it was as described), the final straw would be him telling ME how to do something. Just insulting, and that would be it for me. I would never be so arrogant to just go right in and start telling someone how to do their job. I may know better, and may see something they maybe should be doing. But I would talk to them and try to see what their viewpoint is on what they are doing, maybe ask if they would like some help if it seems after that they aren't sure of what to do, etc. But if I didn't have the ability to produce quality images, I'd keep my mouth shut.

[friz]

Be careful. I think the guy posts here.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=715577

[nicksan]

Well, if you can't take the criticism in a peaceful fashion, and you feel insulted by it, whether you felt he was telling you how to do something, or whatever other "advice" he was giving you, then take a good look in the mirror.

Sounding you are going to be confrontational about it is juvenile.

It's like when someone posts something up in the photo sharing section then cries about all the negative comments. If you can't stand the heat...

[bjyoder]

Well, if you can't take the criticism in a peaceful fashion, and you feel insulted by it, whether you felt he was telling you how to do something, or whatever other "advice" he was giving you, then take a good look in the mirror.

Sounding you are going to be confrontational about it is juvenile.

It's like when someone posts something up in the photo sharing section then cries about all the negative comments. If you can't stand the heat...

Criticism is one thing, but when someone gives unsolicited "advice," and acts arrogantly to boot, that is juvenile.

I have no problem hearing my work sucks if it does (well, maybe a little, but who finds it easy to take bad reviews about something they think is great? ;) ). However for someone to just assume I don't know what I'm doing, just because I'm not using all the toys they have the money to buy, really gets under my skin.

[OdiN1701]

Criticism is one thing, but when someone gives unsolicited "advice," and acts arrogantly to boot, that is juvenile.

I have no problem hearing my work sucks if it does (well, maybe a little, but who finds it easy to take bad reviews about something they think is great? ;) ). However for someone to just assume I don't know what I'm doing, just because I'm not using all the toys they have the money to buy, really gets under my skin.

Exactly. It's not about criticism at all. I'm my own worst critic anyway, so I have no problem with that. The unsolicited advice/arrogant attitude is the problem. That and telling the person in High School what he did.

I'm not going to get confrontational as in anything phsyical - but I will only bite my tounge for so long.

[nicksan]

Takes less than a minute to walk away from the situation.
That's what I usually do, and if that makes me less of a "MAN", than so be it.
I've got better things to do than to get into an argument with "Mr. Know-it-all". It's just not worth it.

[Brett]

S
The one photog asked- "what camera are you shooting with?" to which he replied-"A canon Rebel Xti"... The photog made a "face" and went on to say-"you need to sell that crap and buy you at least a 30D, you will see the difference in your photography right away..." .


The fact that he said that should have immediately told you that he doesn't know what he's talking about. ;)

[Goshawk]

WhattaDooshh!
But srsly I have been told recently that I should teach basic and/or nature photography, how does one know when he/she IS ready to teach,...or for that matter, offer advice?
I do however understand things like the costs of equipment, (painted an 8'x12' mural on the side of a out-building for my XT) and that someone could build a wooden box with a peephole lens in their kitchen and walk away with better shots than I can get with said XT. It really depends on quite a few things, as to "useful" or "effective" any given image is for a particular purpose or for communicating a certain point.
But is there something about this understanding that will justify me or anyone else giving advice, or even teaching a short-course?
You need a pro 1D series body(two is better) and a cupboard full of L lenses before you can teach. Gear makes the photographer not knowledge:D
Good luck, it is something else to know something but to convey that knowledge to other persons is sometimes not so easy.

[Trey T]

Tony Rage,

post up a picture of the so-called "douche."

[Digital_zen]

That's what I was afraid of Goshawk, guess I have too get to work on my gear collection if I ever want to really get my point across. xD

[TeeTee]

As much of a fool the photographer in your post is, judging by the subject title (and use of 'douche' as an adjective) I knew this was an American teen angst post.

Interesting that you inadvertently republished and promoted the statements of said douche...

[bjyoder]

As much of a fool the photographer in your post is, judging by the subject title (and use of 'douche' as an adjective) I knew this was an American teen angst post.

Interesting that you inadvertently republished and promoted the statements of said douche...

Republished, yes. Promoted? I don't think so. Not to mention, the amount of people calling the guy an idiot for having that mentality, I doubt anyone that reads through the thread will fail to notice that.

[TeeTee]

Republished, yes. Promoted? I don't think so. Not to mention, the amount of people calling the guy an idiot for having that mentality, I doubt anyone that reads through the thread will fail to notice that.

Any publicity is good publicity.

[Digital_zen]

Any publicity is good publicity.

Ahh, but the OP failed to mention the guy's name.

[Photon Phil]

We all need to realize that the others we meet in this business/hobby are basically US but at a different point in development and interest.

The only thing worse that one douche is two.. tag teaming. example.
Early on in my DSLR journey, I encountered some morons shooting a wedding I was doing video at. They were doing it as a favor to the lowly since they were "agency" guys but sure charged enough. I was being friendly as we "wedding workers" tend to be with eachother. Believe it or not we had some down time. So I was talking 20D with them. Being short into my journey understanding the SS,ISO, Ap relationship I may have said some elementary things. They proceeded to ignore me, literally, and then make wise "green box mode" comments that I could hear throughout the night. It irritated me and nearly turned me off, until I found POTN. I did laugh to myself since they huddled with eachother downloading from the CF card at the reception every 5 minutes and gigling. They disrespected me, the wedding 'tog profession and the general study of photography.

When I saw their "final package", what a joke... a box of stacked 4x5's and a bill. But the girls were falling all over their MkII and their gelled hair.

[focus.pocus]

this forum is full of know it alls too... just smile and go about your business

[Karl Johnston]

this forum is full of know it alls too... just smile and go about your business
+1, avoid a confrontation by avoiding coming into contact with the person. State your peace and then withdraw because 9 times out of 10 the person you're arguing with doesn't have more of a clue of what they're talking about to begin wtih

[fly my pretties]

LOL there is worse than that guy on this forum, in fact, that guy is pretty much a saint compared to some of the absolute drivel you can read on here at times.

[alabama1980]

So I attended a local meet & greet for photogs and models this past weekend. I only knew a couple of ppl there so I decided to sit down and chit-chat. Next to us there was another photog with his big portfolio folder and slideshow ready laptop who I decided to talk to and look at his work. I must say it was not very impressive, the guy had good locations for photos and good stories for them but that was about it. Thats not the problem to me, I know my stuff is not that great yet but anyway...
A young Highschool photographer came to us and showed his work on Highschool sports, which was pretty well presented and of pretty decent quality. much like sport jounalism.
The one photog asked- "what camera are you shooting with?" to which he replied-"A canon Rebel Xti"... The photog made a "face" and went on to say-"you need to sell that crap and buy you at least a 30D, you will see the difference in your photography right away..." .

Im sorry!... why is this guy telling this to this kid, when the kids photos were 10 times better than his???? .... hell! I shoot with a XTI, and even though I know im not the best, I have been able to capture beautiful images!!! some even better than someone with a 40D... or 50D... or a MKII... I told the kid not to pay attention to him... Ive shot wedding with mine... televised sports with mine... models with mine... concerts with mine... theres nothing wrong with an entry level camera... its all about who stands behind it as far as im concerned...

Thats it...

oh yeah! later on this photog interupted a shoot I was doing by bringing his several reflectors and trying to "Teach" me how to use my flash.
:rolleyes:
thought i'd share.... oh yeah, If he's a member.... I dont really care.

Sounds like a typical gear snob/know it all. I ran into them frequently when I had my XTI, and still do with the 40D and my meager collection of lenses.

It really sucks to see someone belittled due to gear or whatever...it can REALLY dishearten people that are just getting into the art. They may take the mindset that since they can't afford "PRO gear" they should just give up, and that really sucks. I'm glad you got the chance to talk to the kid after the fact.

As far as him "teaching" you...that was just a lack of tact to interrupt a shoot like that...which is an insight to his professionalism.

Some people like that REALLY mean well, but their method of presenting their knowledge is a little less than ideal.

[AutumnJazz]

Just tell these people that it is the photographer, not the camera, that makes a great photo.

[ebann]

I'd probably get the same treatment with the sluggish and out-dated 1Ds... (MkI).

[Misiek]

Of course the kid could benefit more from a 30d which has better AF and can shoot more pictures at once. But hey, if he can produce nice pictures from the gear he has - what's the point? :D

Everyday we can find some morrons that think that their daddy has a lot of cash and when they have a 1d3 series they are the best photographers in the world! It annoys me... Learny your gear and everything will be ok. Even a 350d or a 450d can produce great images.

[Foamer]

I will admit it, I’m a gear snob. I Bought my first DSLR last November (Rebel XSi) with a 55-250mm lens. 8 months later I had bought a 50D with the 18-200 and a 100-400 L, sold the XSi and lenses, and to top it all off I just had to have a G10. Did I really need anything more than what I started with, no. I’m in a High school where the photography class shoots with XTi's, you would be surprised by what that camera can do. I would never call someone else’s gear "crap" unless, they were shooting nikon.

[photoguy6405]

I would never call someone else’s gear "crap" unless, they were shooting nikon.
Well... yeah!!! :cool:

:lol:

[tony rage]

As much of a fool the photographer in your post is, judging by the subject title (and use of 'douche' as an adjective) I knew this was an American teen angst post.

Interesting that you inadvertently republished and promoted the statements of said douche...

haha! American teen angst? ... how about "Venezuelan almost 30 angst"?

I love the word "douche"... it has a very nice ring to it. Specially when describing certain human actions. That guy in my opinion was... well... a Douche!. I know I might sound like a teen but then again I do refuse to grow up hahaha! im young in heart! although sometimes I do realize that i'm getting older and, like Sam kinison would say... " Ive been married TWO FU#&!NG TIMES!!!!!!"

much love! :eek: