Could the second flash save the pic?

[gnnbtrn]

I currently have only one Canon 580EX II.
I had to take children photos and this is how my setup was:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3501/3724675934_5ec8e7c57f.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gbaturin/3724675934/)


Canon 30D 85mm f/1.8 @ f/4.0 1/250 ISO100

Triggered with CTR-301

And this is what I got:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2566/3724063432_02cea4bb2c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gbaturin/3724063432/)

I see couple of problems with this portrait:

First problem - the girl does not have catch lights in her eyes, but I believe, the umbrella was too high for her.

Second - I'd like to see more hair highlight.
but I had to mount a shade on the stand to cover her, and that eliminated the hair light.

Third - there is a poll growing of her head, but let it not be the issue of discussion.

What would you do differently?

I am seriously thinking about the second flash, where would you put it is such setup?

Thanks for your input!

[Tingchaleun]

I can't think of where to put a second flash either. That could mean that its not necessary for your shot.

Why do you need the shade? I'm thinking you used the shade to eliminate the shadows on her face. But can't you do that with the umbrella by turning up the power? The shade has also created a division between highlight and shadow mid way up her body.

After turning up the power on the umbrella, and getting rid of the shade, you can either use the sun or your second flash as a hair light. Use the shade down by her feet to bounce some light underneath her face.

Just my suggestion.

[Tingchaleun]

if i may suggest, you could get some interesting shots by shooting the other way towards the sun. If we use your diagram as a point of reference, the little girl should sit on the shade side of the bridge. Try that.

[Sam|McGuire]

I would start with fixing your composition and going from there :/ It would have been a great image sans the bridge in the background.

[mchong75]

Here you go. Added some hair light and the poll is gone. :)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/3724291189_7ea07f0c40_o.jpg

[DennisW1]

I currently have only one Canon 580EX II.
I had to take children photos and this is how my setup was:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3501/3724675934_5ec8e7c57f.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gbaturin/3724675934/)


Canon 30D 85mm f/1.8 @ f/4.0 1/250 ISO100

Triggered with CTR-301

And this is what I got:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2566/3724063432_02cea4bb2c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gbaturin/3724063432/)

I see couple of problems with this portrait:

First problem - the girl does not have catch lights in her eyes, but I believe, the umbrella was too high for her.

Second - I'd like to see more hair highlight.
but I had to mount a shade on the stand to cover her, and that eliminated the hair light.

Third - there is a poll growing of her head, but let it not be the issue of discussion.

What would you do differently?

I am seriously thinking about the second flash, where would you put it is such setup?

Thanks for your input!

First of all, everyone has opinions, so please take mine as just that, opinions.

I was going to mention the pole, but I won't.

For my tastes, I think the lighting is just a bit too flat. I would experiment with backing that reflector off a bit, lower the umbrella down a bit, and soften that light up a bit. Even with the umbrella the shadows and light hitting her face looks a bit harsh, especially on her forehead.

Ok, one more nit-pick: lose the nametag.

Basically I think its nicely done, I would just soften up the lighting and give it a bit more modeling.

[Underscore]

Regardless, the pose looks really awkward, but as you said, that isn't your question.

I am wondering what the shot would be like without the scrim reflector shading her right side. There is an odd shadow break right under her right arm.

I think that you could speed up your shutter, or close up your aperture to get the ambient light down, correct the approach of your main light (camera left) and use a second light to skim her right side a bit to get rid of that ugly shadow under her right arm and separate her from the background even more and her hair. I would position the second light high, behind her, but to her right zooming it as much as possible to narrow the beam. Additionally, I would have her leaning on the top bridge rail in some fashion, or between the rails. Of course each change in pose position requires a possible major change in lighting layout.

On the main light, get it as close as possible for that will soften it. Remember that most women/girls look better with a bit of softer light. Models and other edgy type of photography can get away with high contrast lighting on women. I say this to mean that your second light should not be two intense and possibly 1 to 1.5 stops below your main f stop.

Additionally, I would have her in a better pose. I know you are not asking for posing advise, but the pose affects the lighting layout.

[DennisW1]

On the main light, get it as close as possible for that will soften it. Remember that most women/girls look better with a bit of softer light. Models and other edgy type of photography can get away with high contrast lighting on women.



Ya, moving the light in will broaden the light source, but you're using a speedlite into an umbrella, still a pretty small light source to begin with. If you're going to stick with the Speedlite I'd really try it in a softbox to knock some of the harshness out of it.

I meant to ask earlier if that's a white or silver umbrella? If it's a silver one you might try a softer white one and even maybe get rid of the black cover. Try it with and without, to see the effect. Also shoot thru it for a couple frames to see how you like it.

[Underscore]

When you shoot a speedlight into an umbrella (not shoot through), the bounce creates a rather nice diffused to shadow transition, and frankly gives a bit of "window light" effect in terms of softness. Just the way it is.

My only other suggestion is to shoot the flash directly through the translucent part of the reflector (you know the part that you zip your reflective materials over when you get a multi-use reflector). If you back up your flash enough from this, you can get extremely soft light, but you need to open your aperture up quite a bit, which then changes the ambient/flash ratio.

Oh oh oh...there is so much to consider.

[mikekelley]

Other than the pole I like the photo. The light looks nice and natural, and fits the setting. I like it better that way - it's a pre-teen girl, not a 20-something year old model showing off slutty clothing, in what would be an obvious model shot where we can assume lighting is set up, catchlights are present, and everything is perfect.

So I like it how it is....sans the pole coming out of her head ;)

[alphonsis]

Here you go. Added some hair light and the poll is gone. :)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/3724291189_7ea07f0c40_o.jpg
Sorry to hijack, but that's a great job of cloning out the pole!

[Underscore]

Sorry to hijack, but that's a great job of cloning out the pole!

Yeah, that may be the case, but what he did to her doesn't look good. She is oversharpened and the contrast is too high overall. Now that shadow transition under her arm is really annoying.

There are only certain parts of women/young girls that look good with high contrast (i.e. hair, eyes, etc...). That is why edge sharpening and brushing in sharpening is preferred on females.

[c2thew]

"Yeah, that may be the case, but what he did to her doesn't look good. She is oversharpened and the contrast is too high overall."

agreed. I am still amazed at how he cloned the pole out. i'm relatively new to photoshop and cloning, but can't get that clean of a result.

[Underscore]

"Yeah, that may be the case, but what he did to her doesn't look good. She is oversharpened and the contrast is too high overall."

agreed. I am still amazed at how he cloned the pole out. i'm relatively new to photoshop and cloning, but can't get that clean of a result.

Attention to detail and understanding how the opacity of your cloning brush and softness can help you achieve believable results.

Additionally, when you learn how to patch areas of the photo with other areas, vs cloning, you can avoid any semblance of PS'ing.

[zagiace]

This is a cute shot. There are some issues but i believe a parent would be very happy with it.
As far as adding lights, I think children need flatter less moody light then what you have here. IMO- two umbrellas evenly lighting the face and a light set up as a hairlight separating the individual from the background is a better set up.
This young lady has light colored hair but if you are shooting many individuals you are sure to run into some that don't.

[cdifoto]

Attention to detail and understanding how the opacity of your cloning brush and softness can help you achieve believable results.

Additionally, when you learn how to patch areas of the photo with other areas, vs cloning, you can avoid any semblance of PS'ing.
Plus it's really small.

[Underscore]

Plus it's really small.

What's really small?