Full frame cameras vs...that other type.

[sodabiscuit12345]

Hey guys,

Im extremely new to photography. Well, thats not really true. I like shooting and Ive been doing it for a few years now. The thing is, I never really took the time to learn anything.

Ive been shooting with a 40D for about a year now and I absolutely love it. However, Im now in a position where I CAN get the 5d mk II for work. I know, I know...what a horrible position Im in :rolleyes:

anyways, since I know nothing about the technical side of photography, I would like to know what is the difference between a full frame camera and the other type. See, I dont even know what the name is! Is it a 'not-full frame camera'? Probably not.

Anyways, I want to know what the differences are?
Will my lenses from my 40D work on the full frame 5d mkii?
When shopping for lenses online, how can I tell if they are full frame or not?

Lastly, is this the right section to post noob questions like this? If not, where should I ask them? Ive got about 20 more...:o

thanks

[Grimes]

Here's a good links to start with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_factor

Basically, a full frame camera has the same size sensor as a "traditional" 35mm camera's exposure on a negative. The FF image sensor is larger than the one on your 40D. Your EF-S lenses will not work on a FF camera, the EF lenses will. There is a ton of info if you search for "crop factor" here, so I wont even touch that, haha.

[ImRaptor]

I'm not really buying into needing a 5Dmk2 if you haven't bothered to learn anything over the years. You don't seem to know what you camera can or can't do and purchasing a 5Dmk2 at this point seems like a fools errand to me.

Anyway, that's my thoughts.
For Canon glass, EF mounts = full frame, EF-S not full frame.

[DStanic]

Full frame has a larger sized sensor. 40D is a "crop" camera, the sensor is smaller and it uses less of the lens.

you can read more technical stuff HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format).

Here is a diagram of how the 2 sensors use the lens differently
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/fullframe/image_circle.jpg

Will my lenses from my 40D work on the full frame 5d mkii?
What lenses do you have?

If your Canon brand lenses are "EF" they will work for both crop and full frame cameras.

If they are "EF-S" they will NOT work for full frame. Sigma lenses that are "EF-S" are called "DC" (digital camera). I'm not sure about Tamron etc but info should be available on their websites. (Or just ask us for a quick answer) ;)

[DennisW1]

Hey guys,

Im extremely new to photography. Well, thats not really true. I like shooting and Ive been doing it for a few years now. The thing is, I never really took the time to learn anything.

Ive been shooting with a 40D for about a year now and I absolutely love it. However, Im now in a position where I 'need' to get the 5d mk II for work. I know, I know...what a horrible position Im in :rolleyes:

anyways, since I know nothing about the technical side of photography, I would like to know what is the difference between a full frame camera and the other type. See, I dont even know what the name is! Is it a 'not-full frame camera'? Probably not.

Anyways, I want to know what the differences are?
Will my lenses from my 40D work on the full frame 5d mkii?
When shopping for lenses online, how can I tell if they are full frame or not?

Lastly, is this the right section to post noob questions like this? If not, where should I ask them? Ive got about 20 more...:o

thanks

I'm going to agree with many of the suggestions that you really need to study up on some of the technical basics if you're going to pursue this.

I'm also darn curious what kind of "work" would require a 5DMkII and not be satisfied with the images from a 40D? And how does a "noob" get a job that "requires" such gear? Heck, I only have a couple of 1D series bodies but I'm gonna send in an application!! :lol:

[egordon99]

If you don't know the differences between FF and crop, you don't "need" a 5DII.

[elysium]

What sort of work do you "need" a full frame body for?

The main reason why I thought I "needed" one (which turned out to be me wanting it) was for its high ISO and low noise overall since I like exposing greatly for ambient when working in bars and clubs. Plus a 24-70 wasnt wide enough on a crop body, I could have saved for a 17-55 instead but since I shoot 35mm film, EF-S lenses wouldnt really work well for me.

[mikekelley]

How do you feel after getting one elysium? Better, worse, unnecessary? I'm considering picking up a 5d but I don't know if it's worth it over a 50d and 1d2.

[elysium]

How do you feel after getting one elysium? Better, worse, unnecessary? I'm considering picking up a 5d but I don't know if it's worth it over a 50d and 1d2.
Well since I was working in cramped conditions, EF lenses such as 24mm wasnt wide enough so one reason why I switched was because I still shoot film also so made sense to stick with EF lenses.

Secondly, I wasnt too thrilled with high ISO on the 30D/40D so that threw those out of the window. I know I can NR but having to batch it all is a pain since I might want different amounts per photo.

The main reason why I found I came to need it more than want is using high ISO to expose for ambient light while I used flash.

Have a look at some work here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31584547@N05/sets/72157617660782721/

Thats pretty much what I needed. I couldnt find the same performance out of any other body at the time to deliver these results.

[rdenney]

Here's a brief and incomplete list of photographic image formats that are currently available:

1x2mm (guessing at the size for cell phones)
3x5mm (smallest compact digicams)
5x8mm (larger compact digicams)
12x16 (I'm guessing here, but I mean the 4/3rds system)
15x23mm (APS-C--as in a 40D)
18x27mm (APS-H--as in a 1D)
24x36mm (so-called full frame--the same as traditional 35mm film, and used in a 5D or 1Ds)
24x56mm (35mm panoramic, as in the Hasselblad XPan)
36x36mm (digital medium format--these are just the two that I can
36x43mm remember without digging, but there are many others)
56x43mm (645) (all the 6xwhatever formats use 120 roll film)
56x56mm (6x6)
56x67mm (6x7)
56x84mm (6x9)
56x112mm (6x12)
4x5 inches (all the sizes in inches use sheet film)
56x165mm (6x17)
5x7 inches
8x10 inches
11x14 inches
12x20 inches
16x20 inches
20x24 inches

Every one of these is represented by a camera that is currently being produced somewhere.

The question is, why all this diversity? The reason is simple: The bigger the image frame, the better the image quality. This is true for a whole variety of reasons, but the main one is that to make the same picture, you use a longer lens. And with that longer lens, a given exposure uses a larger absolute aperture. And thus the same picture receives a larger sample of light, and therefore more information.

And then, that larger image is enlarged much less to make a given print. That reduced enlargement means that lens and camera-motion flaws are not magnified to the same extent as with smaller formats.

You'll notice that APS-C ("that other type") and 24x36 are just about right next to each other, and both way at the small end. Smaller cameras provide more portability and convenience, and larger cameras more image qualilty. The camera one chooses for a given situation is a balance between convenience and image quality.

And there is the price consideration. The cost of photography rises through this list, though perhaps not uniformly. Full-frame cameras are more expensive than APS-C cameras because the sensors are more expensive, and also because people are willing to pay more for them. Camera makers could not offer a full-frame DSLR from the start at a reasonable price, so they offered a camera with a smaller sensor to open up a market for DSLRs. It worked. But the larger sensor still, all else equal, produces better image quality.

The preservation of the wide-angle field of view and the like is mostly an artifact of lens mounts, however. A 12mm lens is just as wide on an APS-C camera as an 18mm lens is on a 5D, and just about as difficult to make, but the original APS-C cameras had a lens mount that was limited by full-frame geometry. Overcoming that limitation is the reason for the EF-S mount, and that's why the Canon 10-22, which provides about the same application on an APS-C cameras as does the 17-40 on a full-frame camera, is available only in EF-S. It doesn't have enough coverage to light up a full-frame sensor, and it won't fit in front of a full-frame camera's larger reflex mirror.

But in the grand scheme of formats, going from APS-C to full frame is somewhat of a baby step. It's about the smallest step one can make and have a noticeable improvement. It is, however, a noticeable improvement.

Rick "who uses APS-C through 6x12 currently" Denney

[SOK]

However, Im now in a position where I 'need' to get the 5d mk II for work. I know, I know...what a horrible position Im in :rolleyes:

The thing is, I never really took the time to learn anything.

I would like to know what is the difference between a full frame camera and the other type. See, I dont even know what the name is! Is it a 'not-full frame camera'? Probably not.

I'm going to put it to you that you don't 'need' a 5DMkII.

I would hold off for a bit, and buy a photography book or two before parting with such big dollars.

That said, I'm a big believer in spending your money in any way you please, so if you have a few grand burning a hole in your pocket - go for it. Help the economy. Just don't be disappointed if/when your EF-S lenses don't work and you can no longer shoot at 6+ FPS.

[sodabiscuit12345]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies. Especially those who answered my questions.

I see a lot of people picked up on my 'need' part. I dont need the camera, but I do have funds that need to be re-invested into my company on something work related.
Now, this can be a computer, credit card terminals, printers, desks, pictures for the walls, decorations, even carpet for the floors...

With the option of those things OR a camera, which would you chose?:rolleyes:

Again, thanks for the information for those who gave it.

Maybe I'll just re-carpet my office...;)

anywhoo, I decided to stick with the 40D and just purchase a few higher quality lenses.
I like the pop-up flash and the fact that it has 6+fps, the lenses I have are fine and in the future this will be a great back up/second camera.

[HappySnapper90]

Ive been shooting with a 40D for about a year now and I absolutely love it. However, Im now in a position where I 'need' to get the 5d mk II for work. I know, I know...what a horrible position Im in :rolleyes:


And what need requires you to get a 5D2? Needing to print very large with good detail when viewed close up?

But if you are asking questions about full frame, it doesn't sound like you should be getting it just for the sake of saying you have a FF camera. Lenses and other purchases may be far better for you if you haven't been having any camera problems or not having enough resolution for prints.

$2500 can go a long way towards better/different lenses, website design, lighting, insurance, etc. Will a 5D2 make you a better photographer or take better pictures for you? No.

[PhotosGuy]

but I do have funds that need to be re-invested into my company on something work related. Well, that's different. Buy whatever you can get away with. ;)

[Wilt]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies. Especially those who answered my questions.

I see a lot of people picked up on my 'need' part. I dont need the camera, but I do have funds that need to be re-invested into my company on something work related.
Now, this can be a computer, credit card terminals, printers, desks, pictures for the walls, decorations, even carpet for the floors...

With the option of those things OR a camera, which would you chose?:rolleyes:

Again, thanks for the information for those who gave it.

Maybe I'll just re-carpet my office...;)

anywhoo, I decided to stick with the 40D and just purchase a few higher quality lenses.
I like the pop-up flash and the fact that it has 6+fps, the lenses I have are fine and in the future this will be a great back up/second camera.

Buy something that improves your business and/or improves its ability to generate income, not on some FF camera which does nothing to help you to generate more income for the business or make it more efficient in the generation of that imcome!!!

[Trey T]

hard or laminate-wood floor or tile. these two has a higher return in value, functionality, and look than any carpet.
...

Maybe I'll just re-carpet my office...;)

...

[sodabiscuit12345]

Buy something that improves your business and/or improves its ability to generate income, not on some FF camera which does nothing to help you to generate more income for the business or make it more efficient in the generation of that imcome!!!

hardwood floors it is.