Event Photography Questions

[Ralph III]

Hello All,
I am looking to get into event photography and maybe other venues, portraiture etc, and have a few questions. I did read the default section in regards to general "releases" but would like specific answers.

I am an avid tennis player and would like to start photographing tournaments, Juniors specifically, as parents would be interested in buying them. I am in the process of setting up a website and using a professional fullfillment company to handle the processing of the photo's. Customers can go to my site to view and possibly buy pictures. These pictures would be for the customers only and not for any commercial resale. All pictures are watermarked and a password can be used to lock the gallery.

1) If I take pictures, with permission from event Coordinator, do I need any sort of release? The answer in the "release" thread is not definite but does mention "undue burden", as there could be upwards to 100 kids to photograph. Other events, soccer/baseball, could easily have several hundred kids making individual releases absolutely impossible.

2) How do I promote the benefits of this service to the event Coordinators? Do I offer some free "promotional"(not for resale) pictures for them or a cd with pics on them? Can they or I provide "winner" photographs to local news agencies? Do I wave any "fee's" which might normally be associated with photographing an event? Should the Coordinator make note of this service when promoting the event etc, etc?

In other words what benefit would they get from my shooting their tournament which could offset any fee's they may want to impose upon me? Does that even occur?



3) When should I require a password for galleries? I know such would be good for portraitures but what about sports events and under 18's, etc?

4) Can I use some of the pictures I take at these events to post on my website for promotional purposes? Such as including in slide shows.

5) What events are popular among adults which offer good sales?

Thanks

[DDCSD]

Ralph, where are you located?

1) Assuming you're in the US, you do not need a release to photograph people and then offer the images for sale.

2) I offer the organizers a roughly 10% kickback. I personally feel mostly obligated to do this. I have done a few tournaments that I did not give a kickback, and I honestly felt a little guilty. I also tell them that I can let them use a couple images for their website if they would like, but honestly haven't had any ask.

It would be great to have the organizers promote you in the stuff that they send out to teams/players and on their website. This is one reason that I offer back a percentage, then they have an interest in helping promote you.

3) I don't bother with a password for sports events (most of my events are under 18 events). It would be a huge pain and you'd get a million emails asking for the password, no matter how easy you make it. I've never had a single complaint about not having a password. I have started making an email address optional to view the galleries. A splash screen comes up when they click on the gallery that asks for an email address ( I make it optional, they can click through if they want to). I think that this gives parents a slight feeling of security. Or not. :)

4) You could use them for a slideshow, but not really for "promoting" yourself. This is where you would need a release, if you make it appear that the subject is endorsing your services in some way.

5) I've found basketball to be best for sales so far. Parents just can't get good shots of their kids playing basketball without some good camera gear. I have a feeling that this would be the case for most indoor action events. Outdoor stuff doesn't seem to be quite as profitable for me, but I know that I need to figure out how to market myself better for that.



I know you said you have a website, but I want to throw out a plug for Exposure Manager. It is made for event sales and is great. I love it.

[Ralph III]

Ralph, where are you located?

1) Assuming you're in the US, you do not need a release to photograph people and then offer the images for sale.

2) I offer the organizers a roughly 10% kickback. I personally feel mostly obligated to do this. I have done a few tournaments that I did not give a kickback, and I honestly felt a little guilty. I also tell them that I can let them use a couple images for their website if they would like, but honestly haven't had any ask.

It would be great to have the organizers promote you in the stuff that they send out to teams/players and on their website. This is one reason that I offer back a percentage, then they have an interest in helping promote you.

3) I don't bother with a password for sports events (most of my events are under 18 events)....I have started making an email address optional to view the galleries... :)

4) You could use them for a slideshow, but not really for "promoting" yourself. This is where you would need a release, if you make it appear that the subject is endorsing your services in some way.



I know you said you have a website, but I want to throw out a plug for Exposure Manager. It is made for event sales and is great. I love it.

Hello DDCSD,
Thanks a lot for your help. FYI, I live in south Alabama. Your post was edited for clarity sake as I have a few follow ups.

1) Ok, I do not need a release in offering pictures for sale of individuals. I do assume I would need a release however, if I were offering the pictures for commercial resale as the thread "when do I need a release" states. That would not be an issue with me but assume that to be correct?

2) You make a good point in offering the event organizers a percentage. Would I be a cheapskate in offering anything less than 10%? I want to keep the costs to costomers down for now until I can build a reputation. In addition I have to pay a percentage to my fullfillment company (backprint) with any sales. BTW, what would be some typical prices you would charge at lets say a soccer event for 4x6's, 5x7's?

3) I really did not see a point in needing a password for a "public" event but can see the necessity for "personal" events. I just wanted to confirm there would be no legal issue in having event pictures on display of children. I am interested in what you mean by offering an email address however? Exactly how does that work?

4) I would like to use some pictures I take at events or portrait to display on my website. Whether it is a stand alone picture or one within a slideshow. It would strictly be for interest purposes and in showing my capabilities. This is what I meant by "promoting" myself. Lets say I take a great shot of a kid making a touchdown or a great pic of a bride on the beach; can I display those pictures on my site by themselves or within a slideshow without a release?

Thanks again and have a great Sunday!! Ralph

[DDCSD]

1) If you are using them for commercial purposes (advertisements, bassically) you need a release.

I photograph bands, and I can sell prints of those bands to people if I want to. I can sell them to a magazine or magazine for them to use editorially. I cannot sell those photos to a guitar company for them to use for advertising.

2) You can offer whatever you think will get you in the door. Anything less than 10% wouldn't really amount to much from my sales though.

I personally do no offer 4x6's unless I am specifically asked about them. People get mad when you charge $7 for a 4x6, but think $7 is fine for a 5x7. I charge $7 for a 5x7.


3) No legal issues. Exposure Manager has an option that has a screen pop up requesting that the visitor enter their email address before they enter the gallery. I didn't word that very well in the last post.


4) Web display is generally not considered commercial in nature. Displaying the images would be fine, just don't make a banner ad out of it or anything like that.

[Ralph III]

1) If you are using them for commercial purposes (advertisements, bassically) you need a release.

I photograph bands, and I can sell prints of those bands to people if I want to. I can sell them to a magazine or magazine for them to use editorially. I cannot sell those photos to a guitar company for them to use for advertising.

2) You can offer whatever you think will get you in the door. Anything less than 10% wouldn't really amount to much from my sales though.

I personally do no offer 4x6's unless I am specifically asked about them. People get mad when you charge $7 for a 4x6, but think $7 is fine for a 5x7. I charge $7 for a 5x7.


3) No legal issues. Exposure Manager has an option that has a screen pop up requesting that the visitor enter their email address before they enter the gallery. I didn't word that very well in the last post.


4) Web display is generally not considered commercial in nature. Displaying the images would be fine, just don't make a banner ad out of it or anything like that.

Thanks again! Lastly, I forgot to ask the following questions in regards to the 10% paid to event organizers.

1) Do you have a time period after which you stop paying the 10% to the organizers? In other words, if you shoot an event and six months later a customer purchases a picture would you still forward the 10% to organizers?

2) Do you offer or enter any sort of written contract with the event coordinators or is a professional and verbal commitment typically sufficient? Do you present coordinators with some sort of sales receipts or is this again a trust issue?

3) Do you ever attempt to work with coordinators in offering any sort of event "package". Whereas participants can pay an extra fee to include a picture/pictures? I can see how that could pose problems but is there ever a good time for that?

Have a great one,
Ralph

[DDCSD]

1) 95% of orders are placed withing 3 weeks, so I use 4 weeks as my sales reference. Any sales that may come in after that will be minimal (although I did just get an order two weeks ago from a tourney I did at the end of February, but it was only like $30, so it doesn't amount to much in the long run).

This is part of why I always say ~10% or approximately 10%. But I usually round up a little bit when I send the check anyways.

2) I've never done any kind of contract, its all been verbal and through emails. I've never had anyone ask for receipts or question anything. But things in your area may be different. If I were asked, it would be very easy for me to print out a sales report from my Exposure Manager account.

We're really not talking about that much money. My donations usually range from $50 to $100. We're still pretty trusting folks up here in SD.

3) That sounds good, but could turn into a nightmare. You might spend all day running around trying to get photos of certain players and end up only with those. That and I wonder how many people will want to pay sight-unseen for something. Maybe it could work, but I'm thinking of my situation (just me going to the tourneys and shooting, no one to help me with anything).


Ideally, I would like to find someone that could go to the tourneys with me and man a sales table. Maybe do some onsite sales (possibly buy a dye-sub printer, or just have them order and I mail them the photos afterwards) or have them try and sell people on buying game CD's where I'll photograph and entire game for a team and they get the CD.


Here is a thread I recently started to get ideas on pre-selling:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=717699

[Mike R]

I personally do no offer 4x6's unless I am specifically asked about them. People get mad when you charge $7 for a 4x6, but think $7 is fine for a 5x7. I charge $7 for a 5x7.




I was offering (2) 4x6 for $8.00 and had customers asking for just one for scrap booking. I now offer them at $4.00 each and it has led to several orders of $50-$60 . My initial concern was that they wanted one photo and were going to copy it but it's working out well, nobody is ordering just one photo and most also order at least one 5x7. My 5x7 are $10.00

[Tigershark]

I used to never sell 4x6s either but sales have been slow on tournaments so I gave it a try and found that it is my best seller. I have had plenty of parents buy every picture their kid was in from a tournament. Best thing I have done in a long time

[DDCSD]

I used to never sell 4x6s either but sales have been slow on tournaments so I gave it a try and found that it is my best seller. I have had plenty of parents buy every picture their kid was in from a tournament. Best thing I have done in a long time


How do you price them as compared to 5x7's?

[Tigershark]

5x7s are $7.00 and 4x6 are 2.50 I am in a terrible market for pricing in my area and if I could charge more I would but for games and tournaments I am pretty much limited when it comes to these prices, for portrait work it is a lot differnt. For sports I do sell more 4x6s than anything. I have only been doing it for about 3 months and it was because my sales were so slow I thought I would try something new and sure enough it worked. Volume sales are better than nothing in this economy.