How to nicely provide criticism

[360°]

theres a person on my facebook who i know through a friend of a friend.
this person just recently bought an dslr camera and is taking pictures of everything and anything. im pretty sure he/she thinks that his/her photos are good (displaying them everywhere, having a fan page, and being kind of cocky with them)

BUT. in all honesty his/her pictures suck. probably worse than a point and shoot snapshot.

the thing is, he/she didnt do any research on how to use the camera and im pretty sure he/she is using the auto setting.

how can i, as nicely as possilbe offer advice without insulting this person

[stathunter]

They didn't ask for help .... so say nothing.... even if they ask for help --- unless they are willing to pay (meaning they are serious and take value in what you have to say) then say nothing.
Zip the lip.
Nada......nothing.......say nufin.

[number six]

You can't. Give it up.

If he/she asks, then you can help, a bit at a time.

-js

[dustyporch]

Honestly, you can't. If you say something, they will be offended.

If they ask for help or criticism, then have at it! But otherwise, just keep taking your own photos (which are presumably better) and eventually they will realize they need some help and will ask for it.

[stathunter]

Remember that you cannot fix stupid.

[Wilt]

Is the issue technical competance, or merely artistic value (e.g., composition)? It is easier to say "I see the meter got fooled in this exposure...you could help the meter by (describe)" and have them not be offended, when the 'blame' is attributed to the gear.

[lungdoc]

Wouldn't offer advice unless asked or unless a very close friend/relation that you know can deal with it.

Usually much easier to offer and accept technical advice (like say increase ISO and shutter speed would stop blurring...) than composition advice.

[snyderman]

Agree with others. In the case of your friend's friend, it's better to not comment at all. This way, you don't lose one or perhaps two friends.
dave

[stathunter]

360 what would you think if I just out of the blue starting telling you what you are doing wrong with your photos?

[kwill22]

There are many out there that don't research because they simply don't realise what they need to know, the best way to learn for many is by mistakes, that's the beauty of a dslr it doesn't cost like film did. He/She will eventually slow down take a look and think these pictures suck, then that's the best time to help them learn.

[Karl Johnston]

Easy, dont offer advice

[nphsbuckeye]

Remember that you cannot fix stupid.
Truer words have never been spoken.

[360°]

thanks everyone. my lips are sealed....

..... its just really annoying because this person seems like they're trying to show me up or something and i dont understand why

[360°]

she messaged me out of the blue a couple days ago telling me shes going to be shooting a wedding and if i know where she can get a 70-200mm lens.

[nphsbuckeye]

she messaged me out of the blue a couple days ago telling me shes going to be shooting a wedding and if i know where she can get a 70-200mm lens.
Then maybe you ought to speak up, for the sake of the B&G.

Plus, can you link to some of her pictures. I'm really curious now. :lol:

[stathunter]

I had my wife's old friend of a friend call me after emailing me her website - she wanted to know what she should be charging to photograph weddings. As a wedding photographer I told her not to charge-- she needed to practice first. She was a bit offended - remember she called me for advice -- she then said that her husband thought she did a great job. I told her that he was a kind person and very supportive but she called me for professional advice and she should not give up her day job.
That was the last time I had to deal with her. And for what it is worth she still sucks.

[Wilt]

she messaged me out of the blue a couple days ago telling me shes going to be shooting a wedding and if i know where she can get a 70-200mm lens.

Another instant solo pilot ready to fly passengers for hire. It isn' t brain surgery, but you do need competance! Tell her you just read a book on childbirthing and you can deliver her child for far less money than an ObGyn...maybe she will get the hint.

[stathunter]

Another instant solo pilot ready to fly passengers for hire. It isn' t brain surgery, but you do need competance!

The only problem is when they crash and burn -- it is the couple that suffers not the moron who took the photos.

[360°]

i dont wanna be posting pictures just incase this person is on the forum. but trust me, they have no sense of composition or depth of field.... he/she literally doesnt switch the camera out of auto

[nicksan]

My policy is to not give unsolicited advice.
As for the wedding, again, not your problem. It's between that person and the BG.

I'd just leave it be.

But I wouldn't be bothered by it anyways. If you are bothered by it, it actually reflects more on your than that person...

[SOK]

If you are bothered by it, it actually reflects more on you than that person...

I'd be taking Nicksan's advice and doing some serious self reflection.

Without sounding rude; who are you to police what people are posting on the internet? Block them from your Facebook if it worries you. If your mind is just bursting with pearls of wisdom and you need an outlet for them - go and hang out in Critique Corner. Help people who are actually soliciting it.

this person just recently bought an dslr camera and is taking pictures of everything and anything. im pretty sure he/she thinks that his/her photos are good (displaying them everywhere, having a fan page, and being kind of cocky with them)

You know, this is exactly the sort of behaviour most beginners are encouraged to exhibit when they start out.

they have no sense of composition or depth of field.... he/she literally doesnt switch the camera out of auto

If you're sitting at home worrying about this (and the wedding you mentioned), it sounds like you need to get out more. You need a hobby! ;)

[360°]

I'd be taking Nicksan's advice and doing some serious self reflection.

Without sounding rude; who are you to police what people are posting on the internet? Block them from your Facebook if it worries you. If your mind is just bursting with pearls of wisdom and you need an outlet for them - go and hang out in Critique Corner. Help people who are actually soliciting it.



You know, this is exactly the sort of behaviour most beginners are encouraged to exhibit when they start out.



If you're sitting at home worrying about this (and the wedding you mentioned), it sounds like you need to get out more. You need a hobby! ;)

who said anything about me worrying about it? this person keeps messaging me and yes she did ask for my opinion. all i asked is how i could tell them what i think without insulting them

[Wilt]

"Look I don't want to be brutal, but I have to be honest with you...I think you're trying too soon to sell your services for such an important event as a woman's wedding, where guests might not ever be in one place together again. Even the most naturally gifted brain surgeon in the world had to spend his time learning and practicing first!"

There is absolutely no commentary about the quality of her current work, merely recognition of technical skills and practice needed to develop the ability to put one's brain into Auto and be able to cope with the wide variety of situations which wedding work demands of photographers.

[SOK]

this person keeps messaging me and yes she did ask for my opinion.

Re-read your own posts. The only time you mention this person messaging you is where they asked where to find a 70-200. Nowhere do you state they have solicited advice about their images that "suck". If they have,it changes the whole context of your thread, and I'm not the only one to draw the conclusion I have.

who said anything about me worrying about it?

Well, you did start an internet forum thread about it...but if you're not convinced, then once again, I recommend you re-read your own posts;

..... its just really annoying because this person seems like they're trying to show me up or something and i dont understand why

Sounds like you're worrying about it to me.... :rolleyes:

[watt100]

thanks everyone. my lips are sealed....

..... its just really annoying because this person seems like they're trying to show me up or something and i dont understand why

"show me up" ? maybe you're interpreting too much!
like the others have said, I would not say anything about quality other than offering advice on lens, where to buy, etc.

[Karl Johnston]

Some people dont want to do photo professionally, just leave them alone and let them figure it out as they go. experience is the best critic

if someone shoots a wedding on full auto then hats off to them, there are some great full auto photographers out there that actually use auto very creatively despite knowing very little about how to work anything else on the camera.

[nphsbuckeye]

if someone shoots a wedding on full auto then hats off to them, there are some great full auto photographers out there that actually use auto very creatively despite knowing very little about how to work anything else on the camera.
It's established the said photographer isn't good at that, yet.

[Jaymz]

It's established the said photographer isn't good at that, yet.


Unless there is a link to her work, which I may have missed, we have one persons opinion. I would like to see her work.

[Gentleman Villain]

anyone that is taking zoo pictures isn't qualified to critique other people's work

[nicksan]

anyone that is taking zoo pictures isn't qualified to critique other people's work

Well, does that leave you, and only you worthy of commenting on other people's work then?:confused:

[Mark1]

I dont know how you are. But when one of my friends gets me on the topic of photo they are in for a lecture. As they are friends that will never be any sort of competition (so a different situation) I usually brain dump on them. They know this, but they still get me going every now and then. If you are the same way, it is easy to unload on them. Just never use them or thier work as an example. Use the "I saw this one shot once that was so bad...." or the "this one guy did....." Its easier than it seams when they ask for advice. In 10 minutes I can go from where to get that 70-200 to how many dpi they want to specify in there prints. This kind of overload may be what gets her to realize she is not ready. But wait till she brings up the topic.

[nphsbuckeye]

Unless there is a link to her work, which I may have missed, we have one persons opinion. I would like to see her work.
That has already been covered in this thread.

[Jaymz]

i dont wanna be posting pictures just incase this person is on the forum. but trust me, they have no sense of composition or depth of field.... he/she literally doesnt switch the camera out of auto

That has already been covered in this thread.

Yes, in 360's post I quoted.

It's established the said photographer isn't good at that, yet.

Without seeing her work, I dont see how it can be established what she is or isnt good at. She could be creating exquisite works of art in auto mode and the OP could be insanely jealous or her work could be complete garbage.

[360°]

....

[360°]

anyone that is taking zoo pictures isn't qualified to critique other people's work

whats wrong with taking pictures at the zoo? what there's a rule that zoo animals are not lagit subjects to be photographed?

and i never claimed to be a professional or even close.

[JWitmer]

Dude, I totally understand your frustration.
It sucks, as it isn't your job to teach them how to go about things. In reality, they will learn by themselves, look back at the work, and laugh it off as a learning period (which it is)... or they won't find much of a future in the hobby and play golf or Nintendo or whatever other hobby they find fit.
If they ask you for advice, I wouldn't mention the quality of their work, but the positive power of learning.
For example, I used to race amateur motocross as a kid and in my early/mid teens. If you think photographers are bad, just go to a local track. You'll see heads so big they give caricatures a run for their money. Everyone is a "FUTRMXSTAR", or the up and coming Jeremy McGrath. It really sucks. But if you keep doing what you do, it'll be a lot more fun, especially when you pass the kid with the new 450f's, and box van rig with the bold numero "1" on their number plate. (BTW, you chose your own number...) And when I would clock faster times and beat those kids, I wouldn't say anything, no matter how much they boasted. If they asked about technique or what lines I took, I would ask if they wanted to ride during the week and actually made a lot of friends.
I don't race anymore due to risk of injury, but I guess due to my experience in that field of competition, I might be trained in dealing with the cockiest of all cocky ass-holes. Thus, the every-day, bland, boring, and shameful myspace "Firstname Lastname Photography" doesn't bother me as bad as it used to.

[Gentleman Villain]

Everyone is a "FUTRMXSTAR" or the up and coming Jeremy McGrath.



the jock analogy works perfectly...that's similar to what I was getting to with my zoo pictures comment....people that takes zoo pictures are now somehow photo experts? It just doesn't get more point and shoot than that and the self-righteous attitude coming from some of these newbs just gets completely ridiculous.

[nphsbuckeye]

How does taking a picture of a lion at the zoo constitute amateurism? I would love to shoot lions in Africa, but someone would have to foot the bill for me.

[nicksan]

How does taking a picture of a lion at the zoo constitute amateurism? I would love to shoot lions in Africa, but someone would have to foot the bill for me.

It doesn't. That's like saying studio photographers are amateurs b/c they don't take photos of "real" people out in the "real world".

Folks who complain about this and that about "newbies" feel threatened by the influx of all these new photographers. They need to put them down to somehow validate their work...of course work that we never see b/c they never seem put up and they never seem to shut up. Of course you don't have to have a link to an online gallery or portfolio to comment, however you better be able to back it up if you make pointed remarks like we've been seeing in this thread.

Moving on...

[360°]

ok so has anyone looked at the pictures i linked?

[YankeeMom]

I did. They are not good. He has a lot of problems, but mainly using that FLASH. You might suggest, in a nice way, that he try taking photos without it. (I won't comment on the subject matters ;))

[nphsbuckeye]

It doesn't. That's like saying studio photographers are amateurs b/c they don't take photos of "real" people out in the "real world".

Folks who complain about this and that about "newbies" feel threatened by the influx of all these new photographers. They need to put them down to somehow validate their work...of course work that we never see b/c they never seem put up and they never seem to shut up. Of course you don't have to have a link to an online gallery or portfolio to comment, however you better be able to back it up if you make pointed remarks like we've been seeing in this thread.

Moving on...
Neither does the person that said that...

I've been slowly working on a website. At the rate I'm going, it should be ready by Christmas. :cry:

[nicksan]

Neither does the person that said that...

I've been slowly working on a website. At the rate I'm going, it should be ready by Christmas. :cry:

Yeah...I know how it is. I want to create my own website as well but I don't even know where to start and my Zenfolio is just a great mess.:o

[nicksan]

ok so has anyone looked at the pictures i linked?

Not the best I've seen, but not the worst.
Why is this bothering you so much? I just don't get it...that you have to take it as far as posting links to the photos to be-little this person.
Just forget about it, go out, and shoot...

[nphsbuckeye]

Yeah...I know how it is. I want to create my own website as well but I don't even know where to start and my Zenfolio is just a great mess.:o
I just graduated thinking I would jump into being a pro. But now I'm "just" looking for a job, because the bills won't pay themselves. So, instead of having a website marketing myself, I want one for fun. But, I can have whatever pictures I want, personal or not. I had the fortune of attending the only university with all NCAA sanctioned sports, so I have many, many pictures of athletics while shooting for the student paper.

Once you have it started, the design isn't toooo difficult, it's more of the development. All of the web development I know I've learned on my own, so that's also an adventure.

[Rachel B]

if they shoot canon recommend this forum to them, tell them its a great community for like minded photographers, (I often recommend the forum to customers, even when they dont ask lol and they love the idea of the forum) you can of course say she may be able to pick up a few cheaper lenses in the used lens section and while she is here she can post pictures for feedback and even look at others for inspiration, tell her you do that all the time and find it a great community so its not like your telling her she needs to join cos she sucks....if she loves photography she will probably appreciate the link.

[360°]

Not the best I've seen, but not the worst.
Why is this bothering you so much? I just don't get it...that you have to take it as far as posting links to the photos to be-little this person.
Just forget about it, go out, and shoot...

my facebook wall is flooded (as in i cant see a single other persons post) with links to this persons photos. "check out my new photos" and "become a fan of ...." and i honestly dont know what to do or say anymore. its just really annoying

[360°]

if they shoot canon recommend this forum to them, tell them its a great community for like minded photographers, (I often recommend the forum to customers, even when they dont ask lol and they love the idea of the forum) you can of course say she may be able to pick up a few cheaper lenses in the used lens section and while she is here she can post pictures for feedback and even look at others for inspiration, tell her you do that all the time and find it a great community so its not like your telling her she needs to join cos she sucks....if she loves photography she will probably appreciate the link.

thanks for the good advice

[YankeeMom]

my facebook wall is flooded (as in i cant see a single other persons post) with links to this persons photos. "check out my new photos" and "become a fan of ...." and i honestly dont know what to do or say anymore. its just really annoying

You can set it up so that you can't see certain peoples' profile updates on you "Home" page on Facebook. (You still keep the option of having them on your friend list and visiting their profile page, but you don't see all their updates.) It helps a lot with a rabid updater. :D

[360°]

You can set it up so that you can't see certain peoples' profile updates on you "Home" page on Facebook. (You still keep the option of having them on your friend list and visiting their profile page, but you don't see all their updates.) It helps a lot with a rabid updater. :D

lol no no is not just the home page updates. its this person just going to my profile and posting links on the actual wall. and if i delete this person, it would just be rude:confused:

[Menelaus]

my facebook wall is flooded (as in i cant see a single other persons post) with links to this persons photos. "check out my new photos" and "become a fan of ...." and i honestly dont know what to do or say anymore. its just really annoying
It's called "hide from news feed".

And the more terrible photogs that are out there, the better it is for the pros :p

[360°]

lol ok thanks everyone, i think its time to let this thread die. nothing really more to discuss on the topic

[Gentleman Villain]

BUT. in all honesty his/her pictures suck. probably worse than a point and shoot snapshot.



....

ok so has anyone looked at the pictures i linked?


The .... used to be links to the pictures. Fortunately, they were removed. The OP has some nerve linking to people and saying that their work sucks.

[joedlh]

New photographers as a rule get all excited about "taking pictures". It's kind of cute, don't you think? I remember when I was like that.

One of the things they have yet to develop is a critical eye for their own work. You see it on web site likes Flickr where they post everything. It's here on this forum in posts titled something along the lines of "Just starting out. What do you think about my photos?" And then they post eight mediocre shots and one that's actually pretty good. And they don't realize that the good one is good or why it is good. If one has been around for a while, one has learned to trash those seven and just post the one. Give them some slack.

I made the mistake once or twice of posting an analysis of shots on this forum that were not posted in the critique forum. That's because I usually look at new posts first and my feeble mind forgot where I was. Unless someone asks for specific advice, they generally only want to hear how great it is. In that case, my rule is to let silence speak for me.

Another thing: often a noob will ask for advice for a really terrible shot. If I have time, I will comment on the one or two most egregious problems, not wanting to discourage them. How many of us were aware of exposure compensation, depth of field, movement blur, and quality of light the first week we started shooting?

Sometimes you really have to bite your tongue, as with the typical first wedding question. Recently, I saw a noob post some mediocre shots that all had what he/she wanted to present as a professional looking by-line (something like "Joe Schmoe Photography") -- after stating that he had the camera for one week. Ah, noobish enthusiasm! Gotta love it. But you know, someday that person might develop skills that would put my stuff to shame.

[360°]

The .... used to be links to the pictures. Fortunately, they were removed. The OP has some nerve linking to people and saying that their work sucks.

and for all you know, those could have been my pictures

[Maddog12]

Just delete her as a friend in FB and forget about it.