Whats the rules for High School sports photography?

[ShutteringFocus]

Are sports players "modles?"

Do I need permision to take photos of them, put them on my web site, and sell copies?

These are public events right? Sport games that is...

[Jon, The Elder]

I don't know about "modles", but they aren't considered "models". Sports events are exhibitions for paying spectators.

Now - if you sell a photo of them (players) for profit- that changes all kinds of things.

[Persian-Rice]

No, you cant sell or use the photos without permission.

Depends what you are shooting, if you are doing some high school stuff, they wont mind. As you move into the professional levels, you need rights, and they almost always ask you to pay quite a bit for them. I have several (4) photos(NHL, CFL and PGA) that are in circulation in the sports memorabilia market in Toronto, you need to get rights in writing and have them reviewed by a lawyer if you plan on selling them. I had press access to all the events I shot on behalf of a large memorabilia company, so I didnt need to get the rights myself, but I know they got the rights from the subject, and from me.

If you are talking about the professional events, they are not public events. In some cases you might even need to get permission from the venue as well.

[ShutteringFocus]

Here's why I ask,

I've been shooting highschool sports for my highschool for a while. I do all the sports for the yearbook and newspaper.

People who have seen my photos have been asking for copies. The best way I could find to make the photos available was this: www.trumendousz.com

All of the response I have had from coaches, players, parents, and even the ahtletic director of my high school have been positive.

Everyone loves to look at the photos and many of them have purchased photos.

But today I got some e-mail from someone who I dont know, and who didnt identify themself.

It said, "Do the people on your site know you are taking photos of them?"

I replied with, "I dont know what you mean?"

He replied with "I've heard some people talking about your site and they said they didnt know anything about it."

So I replied with a bunch of stuff about public events, photographers rights, and how I contacted all of the coaches and athletic director, along with the fact that I know many of the players on most of the teams since I go to school with them.

Also, anyone who has ever bought a photo has been a team member/parent. I dont advertise to any outside markets. I also charge rock bottom prices. I'm just honing my skills as a sports photographer, people wanted photos, I built a web-site.

I dont want to offend anyone. And if someone gets a hot head over me taking a photo of his daughter on the volley ball team, I dont want to get in trouble.

See what I'm sayin?

[Persian-Rice]

Offending someone should not be your concern, its the legal ground you could be giving them to sue you that should concern you.

Where are you shooting? What are you shooting? In this case, you should have asked the school, or even the board for the right to not only shoot the games for a profit, but the owner of the venue as well. Asking the athletic director or coach is fine, but once you start selling, at any price, you are asking the wrong people. Remember this, those people are just some regular employees with little or no say in what the school will allow.

The bigger concern would also be that you're generally shooting people under the age of majority, so then there are more problems to contend with, vis-a-vis the parents. Another thing you should know is that shooting in public is fine, but if you shoot into private property or shoot someone in public, unless for editorial use, you need permission. Don't think that you can use a photograph you took on a street for profit. If there are people in it or you are shoot private property, you need the permission of every last person who is recognizable or involved.

These are laws I know that exist in Canada, many are very similar in th States. Its not that simple, and if someone wanted to stop you, they easily could.

I would pull the pictures till you get some formal permission in writing from people who count.

[ShutteringFocus]

So who is the authority in this case?

Im shooting high school sports at the local public high school. I need to take this to the school board? I doubt they would even give it a second wink...especially since school is over in about 3 weeks.

Looks like I might be done for, at least for now with the whole sports thing. I cant tell what this person who e-mailed me is really after. They asked the question kinda suspiciously, and the fact that I dont know who the heck they are kinda worries me too.

Whats weird is that the people BUYING THE PHOTOS are the people IN THE PHOTOS!?

But I guess it might be the whole "being on the internet" thing that people dont like.

[Dirty Shirt]

I wouldn't provide this "unknown" person any more information. Have then identify themselves before you provide any more info. If they won't they tell them to f'off!

[ShutteringFocus]

I don’t want to make enemies though.

Its never been good form to tell people off.

He didn’t threaten any suing...and even if he did he has no basis. In one click I will gladly remove any photos he asks...as long as he can prove they are of his own family members.

And if he is some photographer trying to steal my business? I don’t really care. I think I'm good enough to compete. I'm not the type of photographer who hogs a market...because I like it when people share with me.

I'm going to keep shooting and posting new photos. If anyone asks...fine, I'll remove their photos. But I have a right to take the photos. And a right to sell them if nobody objects.

I've cleared it with most people I can think of, and if one person doesn’t like it...I wont shoot photos of them.

but for the 99 other athletes who love my photos, they are all available at

www.trumendousz.com :)


ps, just scored another order for 10 prints today. :p

[BlueTit]

Good site and some great photos. I have no idea what your rights are but I think you should listen to the advice offered above and get a legal opinion and in the meantime take down the photos on the site for your own protection. That way at least you acted immediately when someone (although anonymous) brought the issue to your attention. If you get legal advise that you are in the clear, you're back up and running and feeling secureno harm done.

Good luck anyway and I hope it works out for you.

[Persian-Rice]

ShutteringFocus, Although you have the right to photograph, you don't have the right to shoot people or private property without permission. Technically, your not even supposed to take the picture. You also don't have the right to sell without permission. Selling a photograph without permission is actually going to cause headaches for you down the road if you are not careful.

I think you have it a little reversed honestly, you don't want anyone to object after the fact, because if they do, then they already have the grounds to file. I'm not saying that anyone will, but I'm talking in terms of worst case scenario. To be safe, take a sheet to the players and have them sign that they are okay with you taking photographs. Thats what is called a model release form, you need one. If you start getting to higher places and maybe even get a chance of having one or many of the photos published or sold for big money, they will require the rights of the subject or you have nothing.

Although Photography for many starts out as a hobby, its no joke, because unlike painting a picture, you are capturing real life and real people. As long as you are posting someones picture without permission, you are also impeding on that persons rights. It's not a fine line, it's quite black and white, except that there are minor exceptions to the rules ie. editorial photographs.

I would go find a book on the business end of photography, I have a couple texts from school and I can tell you there are some ugly cases regarding rights, because even though you took the picture, you don't necessarily completely own it.

[IndyJeff]

I think you have it a little reversed honestly, you don't want anyone to object after the fact, because if they do, then they already have the grounds to file. I'm not saying that anyone will, but I'm talking in terms of worst case scenario. To be safe, take a sheet to the players and have them sign that they are okay with you taking photographs. Thats what is called a model release form, you need one. If you start getting to higher places and maybe even get a chance of having one or many of the photos published or sold for big money, they will require the rights of the subject or you have nothing.



First off they can't file without a cease & desist letter.

Secondly taking a sheet to the players is of no value what so ever, unless that player is over 18. Anyone under 18 can't sign a release as a minor.

If he can sell any of the images of the athletes, it would be for editorial use only and no release is required. Commercial uses such as images used in ads are prohibited under most state athletic associations and would render the athlete inelgible from further competition in any prep school sports. It may also inflict inelgibility from any NCAA participation as well.

All of the response I have had from coaches, players, parents, and even the ahtletic director of my high school have been positive.


Sounds like he already has permission to shoot from the people with the name rank and horsepower to give that permission. The school board in all likely hood wouldn't even consioder this for the agenda of a meeting.

[johnnybfan]

As a players dad I take a lot of pictures of everyone on my daughters teams. What I do is burn a CD at the end of the season for each of the girls and for the coach and give them to the girls. I don't charge for this (although one of the moms also has a son playing & wants to pay me to take pics of the boys team too). I don't worry about having the pics copyrighted or any of that. So far, the only pictures I've had published are in the high school yearbook for the last four years. Her tennis coach calls me his official photographer.:):)
If I were to take pics for money I think it would take the fun out of it for me...although maybe if it would pay for more toys;).;) We do have several photographers in our area that go to the games early in the season, take pics of everyone and come around later with 5 X 7's to try to sell the parents for $5 each. I don't think that they need releases for any of this process but I'm not sure whether or not they would need them if they were going to sell them to the public. I do think that checking with the school would be a good idea.

[ShutteringFocus]

I'm not making it rich here...if you check out my site...I only charge $1 for a 4x6.

Because I can print them for $0.25, that means I get to print 3 of my personal photos to every 1 someone buys...and I dont have to pay.

I use this as a means of printing my own personal photos for free. Works out well. I can fill an order for 10 photos, and print 30 of my own for free (using the $10 my customer paid).

I shoot for the yeabook and newspaper for free...and in return they get me into all the games for free.

So I get to build a sports portfolio, practice my skills, and print tons of prints for my portfolio...and its all free. <---- see the plan?

[froman98]

You have some really nice photos on your site! If you're still in highschool and you're taking shots of that quality, you maybe have a very prosperous career in photography ahead of you. Keep it up!

[DimensionZero]

I don't really know much about this area, but I do some work for a rowing club who has a high school program and such, and what we do is when the kids sign up for the program, or new members join, we have them sign a release form which basically says that we can use their pictures on the website or any promotional materials. Anyone under 18 takes them home for their parents to sign and we're golden. :)

I think in your case, with your good reputation with the school and all, it should be easy enough to have the coaches hand these forms out at the beginning of the year and have the kids take them home to be signed.

[WPG]

i'm not sure about all the legal aspects of shooting pro sports. but look at tabloids granted they are scum. but, they get a shot of celebrity at the beach with their top off and they sell it. 99% of the time you never see on the news "photographer sued for taking a picture of this person on the beach" now do you really think that photographer walks down to the celebrity shows them the picture on the back of the digital camera and asks them to sign a release?
mostly because it's for editorial use it's news kinda.

but you do need permission to sell the photos as art pieces or so forth.
but for a newspaper or school yearbook i don't see a problem with it.

[Jon]

Tabloids also bank on the subject not wanting to give the shots any more publicity than necessary. The Star gets sued for running a topless shot, and the pic gets lots of (pardon the expression) exposure. Free publicity for The Star, and negative publicity for the star.

[Pyromaniac]

I'm no expert but it's sounds to me like you're shooting the games for the highschool paper and the year book, and just selling copies to the players. If that is the case then it seems to me you have permeission to shoot the games, and if the only people buying the photos are the people in them I dought that there likely to sue you, and even if they try it goes back to the fact that you where doing them for the school year book and school newspaper which you have permmision to do. Like I said I'm no expert but thats how the situation appears to me.

[rabidmoose171]

If your in the school, it should be no problem... I mean, your shooting for the yearbook as well, and evrerything, if your in yearbook club that probably gives you permission to take pictures of whatever you want. If your selling to the parents, you obviously have their consent to sell the pictures.

[PhotosGuy]

I dought that there likely to sue you, Just a point of info, it doesn't matter who you are, where you are, who signed what, or how right you are, you can always be sued by some turkey who has nothing better to do. Doesn't mean that he'll win. Just that you have to go through all the BS.
Now would anyone in their right mind sue a poor high school student for charging $1 a shot to his fellow students? I doubt it and, in your position, I wouldn't worry about it & go on with what you're doing.

[IndyJeff]

Now would anyone in their right mind sue a poor high school student for charging $1 a shot to his fellow students?


Someone should sue him for giving away his work and at $1 that is what he is doing. He is letting people take advantage of his ignorance ( not meant as an insult) by selling so far below the market value that he might as well give them away for free.

ShutteringFocus, figure up your cost of doing business and I think you might find your losing money everytime you attend a game. For the football games I am doing again this year I am averaging $139 a game and that is not counting the money I make for editorial use from each game. It is still short of my goal of $200 per game but, I know there are several parents who have stuff in the shopping cart and will place one order at the end of the season. That should boost my sales average to near if not over the $200 goal.

[PhotosGuy]

Someone should sue him for giving away his work and at $1 that is what he is doing. :D OK, I'll ammend my comment to read, "I wouldn't worry about it & go on with what you're doing & charge at least $2 each next year!" Double your pleasure, double your fun,... :D

[IndyJeff]

LOL No Photos Guy, he should still be sued for giving away his work.


You have to figure your cost of doing business, project your expenses as well as sales and derive a figure from that formula.

[transcend]

Just remember one thing..no matter what you get someone to sign, they cannot sign away their constitutional right to bring a civil lawsuit against you. It may get thrown out, but they still hav ethe legal right to sue you.

This is, of course, in the US - the laws may be different elsewhere.