Red-Ringed Tupperware Party with (ineffective) Tin Foil Hats

[Mark_Cohran]

ohh no, your a PM, never had a good experience with them. they can never seem to manage anything but there own lunch :)

so from now on I am never going to trust you. I will trust everything you have written before today. :) :p

Would it help you if I told you I was an Electronics Technician before I became a Project Manger. :)

Mark

[Maureen Souza]

Our daugther and granddaughter moved in with us last week while her husband gets their new house ready for occupancy. Dang, I know now why we had our kids when we were young. An 11 month old just plain wears you out. It's all about her at this point. But it's so great to have a baby in the floor again. :)

Mark
It is soooo easy to get attached to those babies, isn't it? My grandson would rather spend all his time with me than anyone else. It makes it hard when he leaves, lip trembling and showing me the "I Love You" sign with his fingers.

[goatee]

Hehe, I too am a Project Manager, though my title is Techincal Project Manager - essentially I'm a PM but also act as technical lead on my projects - it works well, and I really enjoy it (was a software developer for the best part of 10 years (started in my spare time while I was at university) prior to this)

[theflyingkiwi]

Would it help you if I told you I was an Electronics Technician before I became a Project Manger. :)

Mark

nope, you have crossed over to the dark side. Far as I am concerned you might as well be shooting nikon. :lol:

but getting back to it. don't really care, your posts seems to be sensible.

[Adcuz]

Yep looks like we got a Nikon user here.

[goatee]

SHHH, PMs are not all Nikon users - in fact, a couple of developers I know shoot Nikon! You can't tar us all with the same brush - some of us, because we've come from the other side of the fence, are pretty good!

[theflyingkiwi]

you know some PM do know what they are doing. I have seen it once or twice. However I have seen some real idiots running projects. I sometimes wonder how they got there? ohh well never mind.

as for nikon, nothing wrong them, I just don't shoot with it :)

[Lightstream]

Sadly there are a lot more bad project managers out there than there are good ones.

My favorite joke is about the 4 cannibals that got hired by the software development firm at the height of the outsourcing craze. The boss looks the 4 of them up and down and says "Well, I guess we need the staff. You guys can get started straight away, and please note that we have a company-sponsored cafeteria with unlimited free food, so you guys need not eat any of our other staff as manpower is short."

A few weeks go past and the cannibals seem to be getting alone just fine, no complaints about their work from their team leader, and the status quo has been maintained. Nevertheless he decides to pop in one day and ask them how they are getting on.

"So guys, how's it going?"

The 4 of them all nod and grunt approval.

"Ok, that's great. By the way, did any of you see the cleaning lady today?"

The 4 of them shake their heads.

"That's fine.. I'll just keep looking" says the boss and moves on.

As soon as the boss is out of earshot one of the cannibals whips around and asks the other 3 "OK, which one of you morons ate the cleaning lady?"

One of them bashfully raises his hand.

"YOU IDIOT! For 6 weeks we have been eating software developers, 'business transformation architects', consultants, business leaders, project managers, and NOBODY has noticed. Now you have to eat the ONLY person in this office who does any REAL work, and STRAIGHT AWAY, they notice!!"


Yours truly having-worn-the-project-manager-hat-out-of-operational-necessity-at-work,
The Owl

[Adcuz]

Usually Canon shooters come from a good background and have very good leadership skills :D

[theflyingkiwi]

Sadly there are a lot more bad project managers out there than there are good ones.

My favorite joke is about the 4 cannibals that got hired by the software development firm at the height of the outsourcing craze. The boss looks the 4 of them up and down and says "Well, I guess we need the staff. You guys can get started straight away, and please note that we have a company-sponsored cafeteria with unlimited free food, so you guys need not eat any of our other staff as manpower is short."

A few weeks go past and the cannibals seem to be getting alone just fine, no complaints about their work from their team leader, and the status quo has been maintained. Nevertheless he decides to pop in one day and ask them how they are getting on.

"So guys, how's it going?"

The 4 of them all nod and grunt approval.

"Ok, that's great. By the way, did any of you see the cleaning lady today?"

The 4 of them shake their heads.

"That's fine.. I'll just keep looking" says the boss and moves on.

As soon as the boss is out of earshot one of the cannibals whips around and asks the other 3 "OK, which one of you morons ate the cleaning lady?"

One of them bashfully raises his hand.

"YOU IDIOT! For 6 weeks we have been eating software developers, 'business transformation architects', consultants, business leaders, project managers, and NOBODY has noticed. Now you have to eat the ONLY person in this office who does any REAL work, and STRAIGHT AWAY, they notice!!"


Yours truly having-worn-the-project-manager-hat-out-of-operational-necessity-at-work,
The Owl

haha, that's even funny. :)

[Adcuz]

Sadly there are a lot more bad project managers out there than there are good ones.

My favorite joke is about the 4 cannibals that got hired by the software development firm at the height of the outsourcing craze. The boss looks the 4 of them up and down and says "Well, I guess we need the staff. You guys can get started straight away, and please note that we have a company-sponsored cafeteria with unlimited free food, so you guys need not eat any of our other staff as manpower is short."

A few weeks go past and the cannibals seem to be getting alone just fine, no complaints about their work from their team leader, and the status quo has been maintained. Nevertheless he decides to pop in one day and ask them how they are getting on.

"So guys, how's it going?"

The 4 of them all nod and grunt approval.

"Ok, that's great. By the way, did any of you see the cleaning lady today?"

The 4 of them shake their heads.

"That's fine.. I'll just keep looking" says the boss and moves on.

As soon as the boss is out of earshot one of the cannibals whips around and asks the other 3 "OK, which one of you morons ate the cleaning lady?"

One of them bashfully raises his hand.

"YOU IDIOT! For 6 weeks we have been eating software developers, 'business transformation architects', consultants, business leaders, project managers, and NOBODY has noticed. Now you have to eat the ONLY person in this office who does any REAL work, and STRAIGHT AWAY, they notice!!"


Yours truly having-worn-the-project-manager-hat-out-of-operational-necessity-at-work,
The Owl
This really made me laugh :lol:

[goatee]

Usually Canon shooters come from a good background and have very good leadership skills :D
:D here, here :D

you know some PM do know what they are doing. I have seen it once or twice. However I have seen some real idiots running projects. I sometimes wonder how they got there? ohh well never mind.

as for nikon, nothing wrong them, I just don't shoot with it :)
Lol, too true - I've seen some awful PMs in my time - I thought I'd try and remedy the situation :)

haha, that's even funny. :)
:D it is - I've also only just discovered the 'multi-quote' option!

[theflyingkiwi]

:D it is - I've also only just discovered the 'multi-quote' option!

haha, just watch out, I hate it when people use 6 million quotes

[Adcuz]

You prefer 6 million posts with 1 quote?

[goatee]

haha, just watch out, I hate it when people use 6 million quotes
mwahahahahahaha! - what about using the same quote 6 million (ok, just 6) times?
haha, just watch out, I hate it when people use 6 million quotes

haha, just watch out, I hate it when people use 6 million quotes

haha, just watch out, I hate it when people use 6 million quotes

haha, just watch out, I hate it when people use 6 million quotes

haha, just watch out, I hate it when people use 6 million quotes

[Lightstream]

:D here, here :D


Lol, too true - I've seen some awful PMs in my time - I thought I'd try and remedy the situation :)


:D it is - I've also only just discovered the 'multi-quote' option!

I tend to be able to identify them in more and more fields nowadays. Those who are merely there because they don't have anywhere better to go, and those who are really in it to make a difference.

The problem with 'midrange' positions like this is that a lot more dead weight accumulates there. Can't go up, won't go down.

However, as I have said, hats off to those who are there to make a difference.

[theflyingkiwi]

mwahahahahahaha! - what about using the same quote 6 million (ok, just 6) times?

Now I know I say great things all the time but you could have at least a few more times :)

[goatee]

lol - be careful what you wish for!

[T.D.]

Thanks, but I'm too much of a gear head I think. :) I like helping people rather than just chatting away - hence my very low post count for the 5 years I've been here. :)

Mark

Come on Mark, that's not nice. Especially when this thread is filled with fellow Oregonians!


Our daugther and granddaughter moved in with us last week while her husband gets their new house ready for occupancy. Dang, I know now why we had our kids when we were young. An 11 month old just plain wears you out. It's all about her at this point. But it's so great to have a baby in the floor again. :)

Mark

I could have used some unemployment between my last job (US Navy) and my current (Intel Corp), but I was too silly. I went straight from one to the other. Next time, I'll take a break (I hope).

Mark

Yeah, mortgages have that issue, don't they?

I'm a project manager. I coordinate all the vendor training for our new factories. We have four new ones coming on line in the next three years and I have to make sure all the suppliers are ready to train all the techncians (thousands) that will maintain and support the equipment for those factories.

Mark

Would it help you if I told you I was an Electronics Technician before I became a Project Manger. :)

Mark

Wait a minute, now I'm confused. :confused::confused:

[timbernet]

Thanks, but I'm too much of a gear head I think. :) I like helping people rather than just chatting away - hence my very low post count for the 5 years I've been here. :)

Mark

Welcome back Mark! I have always enjoyed reading your posts - some very good educational stuff in them.

But remember, post count matters not!

We do have gearhead talk in Tupperware land too - just not 24x7 -- many good advice has been given here about gear and exposing properly - but without the flaming that comes from the other forums....

Come on Mark, that's not nice. Especially when this thread is filled with fellow Oregonians!


Wait a minute, now I'm confused. :confused::confused:


Hehe - you were dense yesterday and confused today - hmmm....

But - yay, another Oregonian!

[timbernet]

Where are my manners?!

G'MAE everyone!!

[Lightstream]

Hmm? Very soon it will be Red Ringed Oregon Party :p

Gear talk: I just sent Paypal to Chief.

I will keep quiet now. :p

[gjl711]

Heck, trying to catch up this morning and it seems like I wandered into the twilight zone. Good morning twilight zoners..

Sadly there are a lot more bad project managers out there than there are good ones.
...
Good ones are rare. We have a couple and they add a lot of value and make us techies lives much easier. But we also have a plethora of truly horrible ones. The joke here is that it seems that the only qualification one needs here to become a PM is learning two phrases:
“Are you done yet?” and
“That’s not acceptable”.

[Lightstream]

Good ones are rare. We have a couple and they add a lot of value and make us techies lives much easier. But we also have a plethora of truly horrible ones. The joke here is that it seems that the only qualification one needs here to become a PM is learning two phrases:
“Are you done yet?” and
“That’s not acceptable”.


Yes, I wrote a short brief on leadership not so many weeks ago. We are currently going through some project management courses and as you can imagine it can make for lively discussion about why system analysts and project managers are not just speed bumps on the road to progress ;)

Leadership should be 'watching out for us' not the other way around. Whenever I am asked to step into a leadership role (surprisingly I would rather not), I feel I owe more to the people who have opted to follow me than the other way around and it's up to me to use the wisdom and insight I have gained to lead them through the wilderness safely. The leadership which *I* personally have looked up to, did all of the above. We put our faith in them that we would come out just fine.

Sadly not everybody in leadership thinks this way. I recently had to deal with some very senior managers who simply could not be bothered. Five bloody minutes is all I ask for and I get pingponged around (and they accuse us techies of playing pong.. they do it in real life, which is worse). The irony is that they could have just given me the damn signature in LESS work than it took to fob me off ;)

[Lightstream]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3369179#post3369179

"omg omg I'm so pissed because some n00b shot pics and gave them to the band for free so I am not going to get paid"

I suppose we in the IT sector can laugh because every year, we see a new crop of 12 year old kids who discover a keyboard, 'do stuff for free and take the bread out of our mouths'.

We learned to deal with this a long time ago. Besides, since when was an income a god given right? Are photogs the only exception who don't have to EARN IT like every one of us has to?

Anyway.... I am a volunteer event photog.

I shoot stuff, do a quality job, AND GIVE IT AWAY FOR FREE. And I am proud of it.

[Lightstream]

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!

Petkal assaulted by tree shark!!

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/13/germany.animals.ap/index.html

[Adcuz]

Heck, trying to catch up this morning and it seems like I wandered into the twilight zone. Good morning twilight zoners..


Good ones are rare. We have a couple and they add a lot of value and make us techies lives much easier. But we also have a plethora of truly horrible ones. The joke here is that it seems that the only qualification one needs here to become a PM is learning two phrases:
“Are you done yet?” and
“That’s not acceptable”.
Just pick up from here, there's nothing interested since you last came here :lol:

[timbernet]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3369179#post3369179

"omg omg I'm so pissed because some n00b shot pics and gave them to the band for free so I am not going to get paid"

I suppose we in the IT sector can laugh because every year, we see a new crop of 12 year old kids who discover a keyboard, 'do stuff for free and take the bread out of our mouths'.

We learned to deal with this a long time ago. Besides, since when was an income a god given right? Are photogs the only exception who don't have to EARN IT like every one of us has to?

Anyway.... I am a volunteer event photog.

I shoot stuff, do a quality job, AND GIVE IT AWAY FOR FREE. And I am proud of it.

Heh - saw that this morning as well.... There is this thing called competition - but there is also quality. Competition is good, makes you make your quality better!

When I was 14'ish I would post my "computer services" in the local free computer magizine. I charged $7.50/hour... I got, 2-3 hate emails a month from "pros" saying I was ruining the market. I always relplied telling them that at my age, I didn't have the experiance and skills of the "pros", so I didn't feel it was right to price myself at $30-$100/hour...

That said! When you price yourself really low - you get all the cheap and stingy, weird, can't keep their apartment clean, OH MY GOSH I need a tetanus shot people!

[tommykjensen]

I was about to post my opinion in that thread but decided not to. Its the same al over. The discussion has been up so many times. Pro vs amateur/hobbyist.

I don't get why a good pro is afraid of the socalled wannabees that turn out rubbish (to use the OP's own words).

[Lightstream]

Heh - saw that this morning as well.... There is this thing called competition - but there is also quality. Competition is good, makes you make your quality better!

When I was 14'ish I would post my "computer services" in the local free computer magizine. I charged $7.50/hour... I got, 2-3 hate emails a month from "pros" saying I was ruining the market. I always relplied telling them that at my age, I didn't have the experiance and skills of the "pros", so I didn't feel it was right to price myself at $30-$100/hour...

That said! When you price yourself really low - you get all the cheap and stingy, weird, can't keep their apartment clean, OH MY GOSH I need a tetanus shot people!

Exactly. It's quality. When my last contract came up for renewal I asked for a bit more than usual figuring I deserved it. They said yes, because of the quality of service I'd rendered so far. It was a REALLY good feeling. I am glad that they too saw the light: they would actually have been penalizing themselves by hiring someone else who didn't know what they were doing, even if they came at a cheaper per-hour rate - because they'd spend MORE time fixing things, plus downtime costs. Better to give it to me - I go in, nail the problem faster than anybody else can (because I have been on board since zero hour and know exactly what is going on with this beast of a system - mostly learned the hard way, like I said, only a couple of us have been with it cradle-to-grave. Grave coming soon. Replacement being planned. Memo to follow. ;) ).

I learned, not too long ago, to stop chasing the bottom of the barrel, as you have rightly observed. You get all the wierdos and the freaks. You start there like everybody else I agree, but you have to work to get out of that zone fast.

[Lightstream]

I was about to post my opinion in that thread but decided not to. Its the same al over. The discussion has been up so many times. Pro vs amateur/hobbyist.

I don't get why a good pro is afraid of the socalled wannabees that turn out rubbish (to use the OP's own words).

Hear, hear!

I would have posted my opinion in that thread that would have started a flame war, a threadwreck and then made more work for the mods to sort out. While causing a threadwreck can be fun, out of consideration for the kind mods I did not (since I like the mods anyway.. :) (especially the one sending me the Mk2 :D)

And you're right, the real pros don't care. Just like I said about us in IT, we don't care about the buck an hour kids just starting out. Some of them will make it and become pros eventually, I don't doubt that, the lightweights will get weeded out. I've seen so many get wiped out along the way vowing never to work in tech again.

It just seems that many photogs who want to go "PRO" need a big, harsh dose of BUSINESS realities. (even in my line you'd be surprised how much business I need to know and how much gets forcibly shovelled down my throat :p). Competition, startups, strengths/weaknesses/opportunities/threats (SWOT analysis :p) - all of this has to factor in the plan. It's not as simple as switch to RAW mode, pimp some pix and make money.

[Jon]

Thanks, but I'm too much of a gear head I think. :) I like helping people rather than just chatting away - hence my very low post count for the 5 years I've been here. :)

Mark
That's no excuse . . . You can do both . . .
haha, just watch out, I hate it when people use 6 million quotes
Oh?
You prefer 6 million posts with 1 quote?Not I! And if I were to take that route I might even be ahead of CDS in total post count.

[Lightstream]

ooo, another brilliant 'gem' of wisdom.

"be smart enough to realize you don't need full frame for landscapes, just step back a few feet"

Let's see...

Onto the freeway with 4 lanes of oncoming traffic each way at 65.

Back off a bridge, plunging a hundred feet in a move that may actually place me lower down the corporate ladder. Like, maybe somewhere in Hell.

Out of a hot air balloon, this time a couple of hundred feet. I may make a bigger crater. So will the 1D.

Out of the chopper just as the pilot calls "ATC, we are 1500 feet over the bay" (ooo, I get a water landing, this may be good)

Such wisdom, I love it. I would rather be called stupid, and be alive to share my full frame photos.

[timbernet]

ooo, another brilliant 'gem' of wisdom.

"be smart enough to realize you don't need full frame for landscapes, just step back a few feet"



OR - get a UWA lens for your crop camera...

[Lightstream]

OR - get a UWA lens for your crop camera...

Exactly. What I was criticizing is the so often repeated 'foot zoom' advice. There are situations where this SIMPLY ISN'T POSSIBLE. MANY of the situations I find myself in do not permit me the LUXURY of a prime lens. Yes, to me it is rare that a subject presents itself that is well suited to a prime. Product photography is one occasion where I enjoy working without a zoom.

Someone once did a comparison test. Took a photo of his door or something, ISTR. Noted how many steps backwards and forwards it would take to achieve a 'foot zoom'. Think it may have been five steps backwards to equal some other focal length, seven steps forward to equal another FL. Said "This is great, foot zoom will do everything, it's only a few steps". Was reminded by another poster that such distances are RELATIVE. He may have been just a few feet from the door. If he was a few MILES from the mountain, those five and seven steps would have become five and seven MILES respectively. Time to buy new shoes.

Apart from that, 10-22 on the 350D works great. You don't need the world's best autofocus engine, at f/8 everything already *IS* in focus. (ex-owner of that superb combo speaking from experience). Not even asking someone to pack a 5D to do the job. There isn't a need to.

BTW, if you are not tremendously picky, the Sigma 10-20 has a wider image circle than most and thus is a good match for the 1.3X cameras. I shot it on my 5D to 'preview', mirror clears no problem but there is vignetting. Still the image circle is much wider than I expected.

Image quality is not quite on par with the 17-40 even though this is a sharp copy (friend owns it). Friends were all drooling over my 17-40 because I passed that around while trying the 10-20. Still, it is a reasonable UWA solution.

It's just that the OP was selling the 1DM3 as the be-all-end-all solution. It is not. Much as I respect that camera and at one point was hell bent on buying one, it isn't the be all end all. It has some magnificent strengths, but at the end of the day it still is, what it is.

Anyway rant off, I am going to sleep. After writing all of that I just wonder why I bother to listen to the trolls any more, knowing that they are trolls. Maybe I am stupid. I'll leave it at that. :(

[aussieskier]

Ugh, I need a bath after going into the lens forum, but I like this one...

"The 17-40 is heavily compromised compared to the 17-55, limited to f/4 and having no IS."

Oh of course its HEAVILY compromised because of that :rolleyes:.

[timbernet]

Ugh, I need a bath after going into the lens forum, but I like this one...

"The 17-40 is heavily compromised compared to the 17-55, limited to f/4 and having no IS."

Oh of course its HEAVILY compromised because of that :rolleyes:.

:rolleyes: but it isn't EF-S ;-)

[aussieskier]

Why are people so against selling stuff if they upgrade to full frame?!? I just don't get it. (That wasn't directed at you Scott, I know you don't, just as some of the the other comments in that thread...).

[Lightstream]

Why are people so against selling stuff if they upgrade to full frame?!? I just don't get it. (That wasn't directed at you Scott, I know you don't, just as some of the the other comments in that thread...).

Yeah exactly, it would be as if you asked them to cut off a nut or something. They get all upset at me too, not realizing I have made the transition there *AND* back. AND there again! I sold my 10-22 for very little $$ loss.

(350D to 5D to 1D to 30D to 1DM2 - and bought one of EVERY $#@!ing EF-S focal length ever made!!)

(I say one of each FL because there are 4 variants of the 18-55. I have only owned one variant, although I do own TWO copies of that variant.)


Anyway speaking of the UWA, I will leave you folks with one more photo. Comments from RRTP regulars welcome.

Eureka Skydeck. I think this is (currently) the tallest tower in in the city. The 'really high up' city shots I posted a couple of weeks back - this is the tower. All 88 floors.

http://pix.lightrefineries.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3311&g2_serialNumber=3


Really off to bed now.

*wanders off reciting the Internet mantra: Never argue with a troll, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience*

[gjl711]

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!

Petkal assaulted by tree shark!!

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/13/germany.animals.ap/index.html
WTF!!!! Killer squirrels. It’s the end of the world I tell ya.
.

[Belmondo]

:rolleyes: but it isn't EF-S ;-)Hmmmph. There's something else it doesn't have.

People who use the 17-40L lens are clearly disadvantaged.

[Belmondo]

Exactly. What I was criticizing is the so often repeated 'foot zoom' advice. My goal in life is to never have to take a step forwards or backwards. Just plop me down in a lawn chair with all my lenses, and I'll have the perfect lens for the focal length I need at the moment.

I'm getting close.

[Jamie Holladay]

Good MOOOOOOrning All!

thanks again for the help yesterday. I really appreciate it.
here is a link (http://www.24zero.com/DMH/veracruz/IMG_7745-grad-final.jpg)to the one I think we are going to use.

Dante's back :D

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=333849

Hi guys! Good news. The bride & groom were thrilled with the wedding scrapbook I made them.....they called today and were going on & on. The bride said she cries everytime she looks at it (I hope that is a good thing:rolleyes: ;) )
I said HI.
Hmm? Very soon it will be Red Ringed Oregon Party :p

Gear talk: I just sent Paypal to Chief.

I will keep quiet now. :p
Congrats on the purchase!
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3369179#post3369179

"omg omg I'm so pissed because some n00b shot pics and gave them to the band for free so I am not going to get paid"

I suppose we in the IT sector can laugh because every year, we see a new crop of 12 year old kids who discover a keyboard, 'do stuff for free and take the bread out of our mouths'.

We learned to deal with this a long time ago. Besides, since when was an income a god given right? Are photogs the only exception who don't have to EARN IT like every one of us has to?

Anyway.... I am a volunteer event photog.

I shoot stuff, do a quality job, AND GIVE IT AWAY FOR FREE. And I am proud of it.
I'll leave my $.02 at this. I no longer give stuff away. I do however put what I shoot out there. If my friends want it they can purchase it. A hobby it maybe (maybe a little more), but the Easter Bunny did not put all that stuff in my back pack and the Thoothe Fairy is not bringing me a MKIII. So every little bit helps.

[Permagrin]

Moooooorning everyone ;)

Thanks, but I'm too much of a gear head I think. :) I like helping people rather than just chatting away - hence my very low post count for the 5 years I've been here. :)

Mark

Hey! We help people a lot in here...really. And the best part is that we're nice to them too :D

Gear talk: I just sent Paypal to Chief.

I will keep quiet now. :p

Cool Yoda!


I don't get why a good pro is afraid of the socalled wannabees that turn out rubbish (to use the OP's own words).

I'm afraid I did post there. I can't see anywhere where the OP actually SAW the guy's photos...it appears he just assumed they were bad because of the gear!

I think it's possible that perhaps he's a wanna be pro who's irritated that someone is swiping that end of the market...because you are right, a real pro already has a market...

Ugh, I need a bath after going into the lens forum, but I like this one...

"The 17-40 is heavily compromised compared to the 17-55, limited to f/4 and having no IS."

Oh of course its HEAVILY compromised because of that :rolleyes:.

LOL...have you seen the threads about the 17-55 lately? So many of them say "my 17-55 stopped after two months...or after 1 year it's completely broken...or there is so much dust in here...." Yeah, I've had my 17-40 for almost two years...no dust, great color, I shoot indoors in low light with it all the time w/o IS & get great results....I'm clearly at a disadvantage....:rolleyes:

Hmmmph. There's something else it doesn't have.

People who use the 17-40L lens are clearly disadvantaged.

hey! If I'm disadvantaged, can I apply for a grant? (is new gear on the horizon? tune in next time for "Government funding? or Increase the defecit?" *musical interlude* dunna dunna dunna dunnaa BATMAN!)

[Adcuz]

What's this about the 17-40?

[Permagrin]

I'm not sure....Scott apparently saw a thread that was thrashing it...

[Adcuz]

What there's a replacement? I don't see the need for it with the 16-35 except the price difference.

[Jon]

ok thanks guys. I am going to keep my 20D and get a 1dino. Then I can use my 20D for ISO 1600 and 3200 with my 50mm 1.4 and my 1Dino with my 17-55 1.8 IS and flash at ISO 200 or 400.

Then when I get enough money I will upgrade to the MK II N and an L lens.

What's this about the 17-40?One guy who's so fond of the 17-55 he wants to use it on his (hypothetical) 1D, among other things. He says he's converted the 17-55 before. Must not have looked at the corners on his shots . . . thinks it'll be good on the 5D as well.

[Permagrin]

no replacement (except for the 17-55 ef-s lens), other than the new 16-35 II.

[Permagrin]

One guy who's so fond of the 17-55 he wants to use it on his (hypothetical) 1D, among other things. He says he's converted the 17-55 before. Must not have looked at the corners on his shots . . . thinks it'll be good on the 5D as well.

I hope he doesn't care about the mirror being jammed into the back of the lens...even with Yoda's "converted" lens (can't remember which one he converted) it jammed his 5D's mirror...

with the optics of the 17-40 and the 16-35, I just can't see a need to convert the 17-55 (which I'm not a fan of anyway)...

[Belmondo]

I've always considered vignetting such a lovely word.

Is it French?

[Permagrin]

I've always considered vignetting such a lovely word.

Is it French?

ORIGIN late Middle English (sense 2 ; also as an architectural term denoting a carved representation of a vine): from French, diminutive of vigne ‘vine.’

[timbernet]

I'm not sure....Scott apparently saw a thread that was thrashing it...

"Riley" saw a thread - not me...

[Permagrin]

omg, I just got a phone call...one of our dearest friends just died of a heart attack

[fi20100]

My goal in life is to never have to take a step forwards or backwards. Just plop me down in a lawn chair with all my lenses, and I'll have the perfect lens for the focal length I need at the moment.

I'm getting close.


:lol::D:lol:

[timbernet]

omg, I just got a phone call...one of our dearest friends just died of a heart attack

:shock: :( :(

Aww, that's too bad... what a poor way of starting out your day :-(

[fi20100]

omg, I just got a phone call...one of our dearest friends just died of a heart attack

I'm so sorry to hear that.

[gjl711]

omg, I just got a phone call...one of our dearest friends just died of a heart attack
Wow!! That’s sad, my condolences. :(

[thomascanty]

Sorry to hear that, Permie... :(

[Jon]

omg, I just got a phone call...one of our dearest friends just died of a heart attackReally sorry to hear that . . .

[Jamie Holladay]

omg, I just got a phone call...one of our dearest friends just died of a heart attack
Sorry to hear that Lisa.

As for the 17-40 I like mine!

[fi20100]

As for the 17-40 I like mine!

I like mine very much as well :)

[Belmondo]

omg, I just got a phone call...one of our dearest friends just died of a heart attackThat is always a shock. You have my deepest sympathies. I lost a very close friend a few years ago, and to this day if I'm not paying attention, I'll get an impulse to call him on the phone to share some story or another. The realization has to sink in all over again.

Friends are special, and they really can't be replaced.

[Woolburr]

I was about to post my opinion in that thread but decided not to. Its the same al over. The discussion has been up so many times. Pro vs amateur/hobbyist.

I don't get why a good pro is afraid of the socalled wannabees that turn out rubbish (to use the OP's own words).

The best part comes in a later post when the OP comes clean and says "BTW...I'm not a professional either". :lol:

[Claire]

Permagrin, so sorry to hear that. :(

[Adcuz]

omg, I just got a phone call...one of our dearest friends just died of a heart attack

I'm so sorry to hear your sad news Permie. Our thoughts are with you and the family. I'm sure I can speak for all of us.

[Jon]

Milestone post time, I think - so -
MNQIF - Seppy (Macaw Not Quite in flight), and CCIF (California Condor in flight)

[timbernet]

Milestone post time, I think - so -
MNQIF - Seppy, and CCIF

Congrats on the 20K!

CCIF? Is that Californian Condor in Flight?

[Woolburr]

Congrats Jon...you have entered in to unique territory.

[Jon]

Yep - edited to add that.

[timbernet]

Yep - edited to add that.

Wow! I have read about those - I guess they have a 9-foot wing span!

Their faces are as ugly as a Turkey Vulture - but their size sure makes up for it!

[Jon]

I'll have to root around in my Grand Canyon photos - they were flying around with some TVs as well. I may have some shots with both.

[fi20100]

Time to go to bed... nighty night!

[ibdb]

Lisa -- My sympathies.

I was just sorting through my e-mail address book this morning and saw I still had my wife's grandfather's address listed. He passed away about a year ago now. . . :cry: Winning his favor was as important as winning her parents' favor when we were first dating.

[puddlepirate44]

Thanks for the kind words, folks. Things like this are never easy, no matter the circumstances. The burden, however, is always a little bit more bearable in the midst of good friends.

[Jamie Holladay]

Eli says MOOOOOOOOO (actually it is more like WOOOOOOOOOOOOF)

http://www.24zero.com/Eli/Eli%20061007-001.jpg

[timbernet]

Eli says MOOOOOOOOO (actually it is more like WOOOOOOOOOOOOF)




Awww - cute!!

[theflyingkiwi]

omg, I just got a phone call...one of our dearest friends just died of a heart attack

I'm sorry to hear that.

[Permagrin]

thanks everyone...I really appreciate all your kinds words :)

[Lightstream]

My goal in life is to never have to take a step forwards or backwards. Just plop me down in a lawn chair with all my lenses, and I'll have the perfect lens for the focal length I need at the moment.

I'm getting close.

Ahh, Chief has Great Wisdom!! (off to buy $10 folding chair later.. oh wait, I DO have a folding chair, it's next to my Computrekker..)

I hope he doesn't care about the mirror being jammed into the back of the lens...even with Yoda's "converted" lens (can't remember which one he converted) it jammed his 5D's mirror...

with the optics of the 17-40 and the 16-35, I just can't see a need to convert the 17-55 (which I'm not a fan of anyway)...

Exactly. The 17-55 is soft wide open and I've been told (officially) that is normal. Uh uh. Not gonna happen.

I re-engineered two lenses, 17-85 and 60 macro. 60 macro will hit 5D mirror but not the 1D (4MP) mirror. I am too much of a chicken to try it on my new 1DM2 so I will use the 50 Compact Macro on that instead. Surprisingly, NO vignetting even on full frame. The 60 macro is a little bit overengineered in this respect and truly an exception to the rule.

17-85 will hit the mirror at the wide end, but will not at the tele end (based on how much the rear element 'sinks' into the lens as I zoom forward. This was not actually tested. I'm not stupid enough to go for a second helping of trouble ;) ) SERIOUS SERIOUS vignetting. Talk about tunnel vision, I get it even when looking through the VF. I'm pretty sure the 17-55 would be this way too, if they had made it with a full image circle it would be something like the 70-200's size or bigger.. even the 16-35 needs an 82mm bore to achieve FF coverage at 20mm shorter!

omg, I just got a phone call...one of our dearest friends just died of a heart attack

Thanks for the kind words, folks. Things like this are never easy, no matter the circumstances. The burden, however, is always a little bit more bearable in the midst of good friends.

Oh dear....sorry to hear about that. My sympathies :(

[aussieskier]

omg, I just got a phone call...one of our dearest friends just died of a heart attack

Wow, I missed this some how. I am sorry to hear this!

[aussieskier]

Yoda. That program you suggested it pretty sweet. I works perfect for what I want. It will be really nice when I get my N.A.S setup (hopefully sooner than later)

[puddlepirate44]

"TR's"

"Final Frontier: One last pull"
http://tuppervilleranch.com/comics/119ffolpull.jpg

"Final Frontier: I thought you had 'em"
http://tuppervilleranch.com/comics/120keys.jpg

[aussieskier]

"TR's"

"Final Frontier: One last pull"


"Final Frontier: I thought you had 'em"

:lol::lol::lol: How could you forget the essentials! :lol:

[aussieskier]

Does anyone else here ever get the urge to play with a Holga Camera?

[Lightstream]

Yoda. That program you suggested it pretty sweet. I works perfect for what I want. It will be really nice when I get my N.A.S setup (hopefully sooner than later)

Glad it helped you out :) it's a great way to check whether the contents of two files and folders are identical, down to the byte level. I went through this last Dec.. I carted a 120GB of images back home, and discovered that while everything was readable, all the images had significant JPEG artifacts (purple bands, half the image gone, yadda yadda). This was the solution to ensure that the files were verified after copy :)

"TR's"

"Final Frontier: One last pull"
http://LC-images.smugmug.com/photos/162259050-L.jpg

"Final Frontier: I thought you had 'em"
http://LC-images.smugmug.com/photos/162259002-L.jpg


TR FOR THE WIN!!!!!

Awesome! This space program stuff is beginning to get good.

[Permagrin]

okay, I thought I'd spend the day not thinking as much as possible. So I edited photos in lightroom. Everything was WAY oversaturated (I didn't notice it until it was loaded on to my gallery) and too much contrast. (even thought I DID NOT bump saturation at all, though I did use vibrance)....

Anyone using lightroom have similar issues (it looking different in lightroom?) I'm going back and re-doing all the photos again, in lightroom.....thinking that there's got to be something I'm doing wrong...but I don't know what!

(everything looks very yellow) and my monitor is callibrated.

[Woolburr]

OK...who was supposed to be in charge of the keys this week? At least we have the beer.:lol: :lol: :lol:

[timbernet]

okay, I thought I'd spend the day not thinking as much as possible. So I edited photos in lightroom. Everything was WAY oversaturated (I didn't notice it until it was loaded on to my gallery) and too much contrast. (even thought I DID NOT bump saturation at all, though I did use vibrance)....

Anyone using lightroom have similar issues (it looking different in lightroom?) I'm going back and re-doing all the photos again, in lightroom.....thinking that there's got to be something I'm doing wrong...but I don't know what!

(everything looks very yellow) and my monitor is calibrated.

Make sure LR is set to sRGB (dunno where that is, my demo has expired)

[wu_wei0]

OK...who was supposed to be in charge of the keys this week? At least we have the beer.:lol: :lol: :lol:
Just pop a couple and wait for soeone to bring the keys. no problem.

[Permagrin]

Just pop a couple and wait for soeone to bring the keys. no problem.

they should make you the systems analyst :)

okay Scott...I'll look

[theflyingkiwi]

"TR's"

"Final Frontier: One last pull"
http://LC-images.smugmug.com/photos/162259050-L.jpg

"Final Frontier: I thought you had 'em"
http://LC-images.smugmug.com/photos/162259002-L.jpg

that's funny.

[Woolburr]

Come on...somebody has the keys.:evil:

[theflyingkiwi]

Come on...somebody has the keys.:evil:

don't ya know I hid them, I don't think you guys have had enough training for space yet :)

[puddlepirate44]

Come on...somebody has the keys.:evil:

Don't worry. There's a back up plan.

[Woolburr]

ROFL...I hope you didn't trust TD with them or the plan...

Thanks again Cap'n for the great artwork...that is just super...

[puddlepirate44]

ROFL...I hope you didn't trust TD with them or the plan...

Thanks again Cap'n for the great artwork...that is just super...

Naw. TD's just comic relief. ;)

I'm glad you like it!

[Woolburr]

Oh good...he is not bad as comic relief...but I just don't dare turn him loose with anything serious...I think he gets distracted by the Boring Boys and forgets what he set out to do...:rolleyes:

[timbernet]

Oh good...he is not bad as comic relief...but I just don't dare turn him loose with anything serious...I think he gets distracted by the Boring Boys and forgets what he set out to do...:rolleyes:

Hey!

[Permagrin]

Hey!

LOL...you know it's true...as soon as Riley started hanging over precipices, he lost all concentration! :lol: :lol:

[Woolburr]

Yep...they probably wouldn't survive any outings without all his hard work.

[timbernet]

LOL...you know it's true...as soon as Riley started hanging over precipices, he lost all concentration! :lol: :lol:

Oh.... well - yea, that is true.

It is all Riley's fault ;-)

[Woolburr]

Your halo is starting to rust Scott.

[T.D.]

ROFL...I hope you didn't trust TD with them or the plan...

Thanks again Cap'n for the great artwork...that is just super...

Naw. TD's just comic relief. ;)

I'm glad you like it!

Oh good...he is not bad as comic relief...but I just don't dare turn him loose with anything serious...I think he gets distracted by the Boring Boys and forgets what he set out to do...:rolleyes:

LOL...you know it's true...as soon as Riley started hanging over precipices, he lost all concentration! :lol: :lol:

Oh sure, I work late a couple of nights in a row and you guys think you can run amok!?

What's up with that!? :rolleyes::evil:

[timbernet]

Good evening TD!

[wu_wei0]

they should make you the systems analyst :)

okay Scott...I'll look
ROFL

I do have some experience at that. :D
and at popping the beer and waitng for the keys to show up too!

[wu_wei0]

Come on...somebody has the keys.:evil:

Fear Franklin and Gorgo??

[T.D.]

Good evening TD!

Hey Scott.

The cokin shipped today.

[timbernet]

Hey Scott.

The cokin shipped today.

Nice - you should get it Friday or Saturday (comes USPS)

[T.D.]

Nice - you should get it Friday or Saturday (comes USPS)

YEP!:D

[thomascanty]

Where did you guys order your filters from? 2filter.com?

I still need to get my Cokin setup.

[timbernet]

I tried tone mapping (not HDR - I wish more people would figure out the difference) on one of my shots from last weekend - not bad, not my favorite:
http://www2.sandynet.org/potn/CO/SB-IMG_0018TMWB.jpg

[timbernet]

Where did you guys order your filters from? 2filter.com?

I still need to get my Cokin setup.

Yup! 2filter.com

[T.D.]

Where did you guys order your filters from? 2filter.com?

I still need to get my Cokin setup.

Yes.

I tried tone mapping (not HDR - I wish more people would figure out the difference) on one of my shots from last weekend - not bad, not my favorite:
http://www2.sandynet.org/potn/CO/SB-IMG_0018TMWB.jpg

Scott, I really like this. How do you do that?

[timbernet]

Scott, I really like this. How do you do that?

Thanks - it is a program called Photomatix (link: http://www.hdrsoft.com/)

[Permagrin]

I ordered ours from b&h, they won't get here until Wed. (figures :rolleyes: )

[T.D.]

Thanks - it is a program called Photomatix (link: http://www.hdrsoft.com/)

Scott, what's the limit on the free version compared to the purchased version?

[timbernet]

Scott, what's the limit on the free version compared to the purchased version?

Time! (I think...)

I started with the trial version and then bought it a few months ago...

[Permagrin]

we bought it, it's a cool program :)

[timbernet]

Wait:

The trial is fully functional and never expires, but applies a watermark to images produced with one of the two Tone Mapping methods and four of the six exposure blending modes.

[T.D.]

My 8 gb cf card got here today (for the 5D). It shows 500 shots.

[T.D.]

Wait:

That's what I was looking for. I looked around their site, but couldn't find it. Thanks!

[Woolburr]

Oh sure, I work late a couple of nights in a row and you guys think you can run amok!?

What's up with that!? :rolleyes::evil:

Hey....we are just looking out for your welfare...or something like that.:lol:

[Permagrin]

here are three of my favorite hdr/tonemapped shots

http://LC-images.smugmug.com/photos/145709726-L.jpg

http://LC-images.smugmug.com/photos/131613471-L.jpg

http://LC-images.smugmug.com/photos/131619126-L.jpg

[Woolburr]

And the watermark is totally annoying...

[timbernet]

here are three of my favorite hdr/tonemapped shots

http://LC-images.smugmug.com/photos/145709726-L.jpg



:shock: Did you do any other PP work on this? It looks amazing!

[Permagrin]

what watermark?

[Permagrin]

:shock: Did you do any other PP work on this? It looks amazing!

nope, just the normal levels etc. (it's 3 diff shots divided into six different exposures via levels)

[timbernet]

nope, just the normal levels etc. (it's 3 diff shots divided into six different exposures via levels)

And then do you use the Photmatix program or the photoshop plug-in? Do you ever do true HDR or just tone-mapping?

This guys HDR are just... well... amazing! http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=331509


4000 posts! 1K more and I get all creamy....

[aussieskier]

How many of those posts were on company time :grin:?!

Congrats!

[Permagrin]

I used photoshop to do the levels adjustments. I took 3 shots at 3 different exposures. Then I duplicated each of them in photoshop and adjusted levels to make the dynamic range broader...then I used photomatix to generate the hdr of the 6 shots and then I tonemapped it in photomatix because it doesn't let me save an hdr as a jpeg. I don't think I understand that program very well but I think the plane is my best effort yet with it.

[timbernet]

How many of those posts were on company time :grin:?!

Congrats!

Umm... sorry, that is classified....

I used photoshop to do the levels adjustments. I took 3 shots at 3 different exposures. Then I duplicated each of them in photoshop and adjusted levels to make the dynamic range broader...then I used photomatix to generate the hdr of the 6 shots and then I tonemapped it in photomatix because it doesn't let me save an hdr as a jpeg. I don't think I understand that program very well but I think the plane is my best effort yet with it.

Ahh - very cool *bookmarks post*

[T.D.]

I believe I found the watermark Wool was talking about. :rolleyes:

This is a quick and dirty attempt at the Tone Mapping. This is the Washington State Capitol on a really rainy day. Please excuse the rain drops on the lens.

http://hoyboy.smugmug.com/photos/162737782-L.jpg

[timbernet]

I believe I found the watermark Wool was talking about. :rolleyes:

This is a quick and dirty attempt at the Tone Mapping. This is the Washington State Capitol on a really rainy day. Please excuse the rain drops on the lens.



That looks pretty cool - want to post the original so we can compare what is your super-elite camera skills and what is your super-elite mouse clicking skills?

[Permagrin]

wow...that would be cool, minus that watermark and the drops :)

g'night everyone

have fun :)

[Belmondo]

wow...that would be cool, minus that watermark and the drops :)

g'night everyone

have fun :)Sleep tight, Permie. Sorry again about your friend.

[T.D.]

That looks pretty cool - want to post the original so we can compare what is your super-elite camera skills and what is your super-elite mouse clicking skills?


Okay wise guy...but remember this was a quick and dirty shot with a quick and dirty edit. So :p:p:p!

http://hoyboy.smugmug.com/photos/162740298-L.jpg

[timbernet]

Good night Lisa - catch ya in the morning (or 10 minutes...)

[T.D.]

Goodnight Perm.

[timbernet]

Okay wise guy...but remember this was a quick and dirty shot with a quick and dirty edit. So :p:p:p!


Tone mapped all the way on that shot! Much more dramatic!

[Woolburr]

I believe I found the watermark Wool was talking about. :rolleyes:

This is a quick and dirty attempt at the Tone Mapping. This is the Washington State Capitol on a really rainy day. Please excuse the rain drops on the lens.



We have a winner...kind of hard to miss that watermark.

[T.D.]

Tone mapped all the way on that shot! Much more dramatic!

I agree. I'm looking forward to trying it on a decent image and spending a little time on it. I artificially bumped up (and down) the exposure to create 3 images.

....plus the rain drops are really baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Not to mention the dust. :rolleyes::oops:

[Woolburr]

Did you guys order Cokin Z or P holders?

[T.D.]

We have a winner...kind of hard to miss that watermark.

What watermark?

I don't see it.

[T.D.]

Did you guys order Cokin Z or P holders?

P for me.

[timbernet]

Did you guys order Cokin Z or P holders?

Everyone ordered "P"

[T.D.]

Everyone ordered "P"

Tell him why we didn't order Z Scott.

That way I'll know too! :oops::oops:

[Woolburr]

OK...then how do you adjust your grads?

[aussieskier]

OK...then how do you adjust your grads?

Push them up and down... and rotate them in a circular manner?

[timbernet]

Tell him why we didn't order Z Scott.

That way I'll know too! :oops::oops:

Z costs more and the people who played with my "P" really liked it, so that is what they all got...

OK...then how do you adjust your grads?

Slide them up and down in the holder... Am I missing something big here?