In which country to apply for copyright?

[Stan35mm]

I want to copyright my collection of pictures, but am confused if I should do it in Canada (where I currently live), or in USA (where I took those pictures, and lived in US at that time).
What do you think? If possible, please mention the source of your knowledge.
Thanks, Stan

[Longwatcher]

Given that it is between Canada and the US it probably does not matter, but
I think that you should copyright it in Canada, because I know the US will defend your copyright even if you do it somewhere else, but I don't know if other countries will defend a US copyright. Although I suspect Canada, Japan and most EU contries will. If it was between China and US, I would definately highly recommend China, since they really don't seem to care if there is a US copyright on it or not.

On the flip side, the copyright might last longer in the US at the rate things are going.

Just my opinion.
Type US and copyright into google for more better info. I am too lazy right now to do it like I normally do.

[Stan35mm]

Thanks. My intention of asking this question was mostly to see if the place of taking a picture matters. Sounds like it doesn't.

[DaveG]

I want to copyright my collection of pictures, but am confused if I should do it in Canada (where I currently live), or in USA (where I took those pictures, and lived in US at that time).
What do you think? If possible, please mention the source of your knowledge.
Thanks, Stan

You don't "apply" for copyright, you invoke it (Copy RIGHT, got it?) and you do that in the western world by placing ©2005 [your name] on or near the image. It won't matter where the shot was taken. It also can't hurt to place it in the EXIF/Metadata.

That's all there is to it. Can people steal it? Of course. But honest people won't if they figure they can get caught.

[DaveG]

It doesn't matter where you register the paperwork for the copyright.

There was a major treaty accepted by most of the world called the Hague Convention some years ago. One of the points of this treaty to which all of the signatories agreed addressed the recognition of intellectual property rights of citizens of the signing nations. Most (if not all) of the free world signed the Hague Convention. The Peoples Republic of China was one of the last major holdouts. In November 2003, it signed.

How well it can enforce piracy remains to be seen.

There is NO paper work to be registered. People think that copyright is like a patent and it is not. The ©2005 David Grandy on the material is all that's needed.

[defordphoto]

There is NO paper work to be registered. People think that copyright is like a patent and it is not. The ©2005 David Grandy on the material is all that's needed.

Oh no, no, no. That is not true in the USA. If you do not register your photos, and someone "steals" them, prints them and sells them, you will have no recourse other than threats. Your lawsuit will not stand up. You DO need to register your work with the US Copyright office, IF you desire legal recourse. Otherwise, all you can do is tell the thief to stop, and if they blow you off, you're done.

[Stan35mm]

You don't "apply" for copyright, you invoke it (Copy RIGHT, got it?) and you do that in the western world by placing ©2005 [your name] on or near the image. It won't matter where the shot was taken. It also can't hurt to place it in the EXIF/Metadata.

That's all there is to it. Can people steal it? Of course. But honest people won't if they figure they can get caught.
I already did some reading and don't think it's that simple. As it was already mentioned, copyright registration is necessary to enforce the copyright. Also there comes an obligation: in US, after publishing photographs, it is required to submit copies of the work. There are actually fines for not doing it. Whether this is enforced or not, it's a different story.
"apply" for copyright? I should have said "register".

[DaveG]

Oh no, no, no. That is not true in the USA. If you do not register your photos, and someone "steals" them, prints them and sells them, you will have no recourse other than threats. Your lawsuit will not stand up. You DO need to register your work with the US Copyright office, IF you desire legal recourse. Otherwise, all you can do is tell the thief to stop, and if they blow you off, you're done.

Do you think that every newspaper in the US sends in their paper every day to a register office to be copyrghted? Do you have any idea what tonage of paper that'd be? And this would have had to be in place well before it could be sent in electronically. There's no way an office could keep up. In any case that "office" by the way DOES NOT EXIST. A patent office does but there's no copyright bureau. I know that there's none in Canada and our copyright - by treaty with the US - will hold up.

[IndyJeff]

There is NO paper work to be registered. People think that copyright is like a patent and it is not. The ©2005 David Grandy on the material is all that's needed.


As RFM stated above, that is not a great way to insure the copyright of your work. Now your in Canada and about that, I don't know from squat but, here in the US if the image isn't registered basically there is not much you can do.
Oh you can sue but all you can get is actual damages, meaning if the regualr rate for that publication that stole your picture is say $25 then that is all your allowed by law to receive. Now try and find an attorney who will take that case.
If the image is registered, your entitled to actual damages, plus attorney fees, and court costs and punitive damages. If anyone is stamping ©2005 on a photo and expecting full protection of the law, they're sadly mistaken or misinformed.
Newspapers don't send in each paper everyday, they do it like everyone else and send in a cd of all images published, be it by the week or month.

[andygrif]

Oh no, no, no. That is not true in the USA. If you do not register your photos, and someone "steals" them, prints them and sells them, you will have no recourse other than threats. Your lawsuit will not stand up. You DO need to register your work with the US Copyright office, IF you desire legal recourse. Otherwise, all you can do is tell the thief to stop, and if they blow you off, you're done.

First, let me say that I am not an expert in US Copyright Law, however I am not sure you are correct about this.

See the info here which describes how to secure copyright in the US at http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hsc

I'm not going to read the whole site, so it's more than possible that there's a contradictory phrase in there somewhere, but that statement is quite clear to me.

I know that here in the UK, and I assumed all of the Treaty countries, copyright exists at the moment of creation. You do not need to state anywhere in the photo that you own it, you don't have to put a copyright notice and you don't need to put the little (c) mark anywhere on it.

[DaveG]

First, let me say that I am not an expert in US Copyright Law, however I am not sure you are correct about this.

See the info here which describes how to secure copyright in the US at http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hsc

I'm not going to read the whole site, so it's more than possible that there's a contradictory phrase in there somewhere, but that statement is quite clear to me.

I know that here in the UK, and I assumed all of the Treaty countries, copyright exists at the moment of creation. You do not need to state anywhere in the photo that you own it, you don't have to put a copyright notice and you don't need to put the little (c) mark anywhere on it.


Thank You

[Stan35mm]

In any case that "office" by the way DOES NOT EXIST. A patent office does but there's no copyright bureau. I know that there's none in Canada and our copyright - by treaty with the US - will hold up.
David, David, please check this Canadian government guide to copyright, and related links:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/cpguide-e.pdf
The office that deals with copyright in Canada is:
Canadian Intelectual Property Office

[DaveG]

Newspapers are exempt on editorial-purposes grounds.


David, David, please check this Canadian government guide to copyright, and related links:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/cpguide-e.pdf
The office that deals with copyright in Canada is:
Canadian Intelectual Property Office

"You do not have to register your work to be protected ..."

[Longwatcher]

From My research;
A lot of people above have caught most of it (I will probably miss something also). This only applies to US copyright

You do not HAVE to put ©, date, and name on or with the photo, however, doing this shows intent to protect your work from copying. Very important if you want money.

The image is copyright under the Berne? convention the moment it is captured.

You do not have register the copyright, however, as RFM stated, you get way more money back if you do go after someone. To register you need to send CD of image(s) or print(s) to copyright registration office. If you publish your work, you need to send two copies.

Again registration shows intent to protect the copyright.

You have, I seem to remember, 60 days to register from publication for best results, but can register it at any time. Again though if you miss the 60 day window you may not get back as much money.

From what I have read, one of the best solutions when you find someone violating your copyright is to send them a reasonable bill for the amount you would have charged them had they gotten permission in the first place, plus maybe 10-20% for hassle. If they don't pay then you sic the Lawyers on them. Most of the time they will pay the cheaper bill up front. Again this apparently plays well in court, since you made an effort to make it easy on them and the courts and THEY decided to make life difficult. Again get more money.

So put the copyright, with date and name; register your work with the appropriate office and retain a lawyer as needed. You will get more money that way.

[KennyG]

I wonder how US sports photographers cope where they may take up to 2,000 images at one event? What a nightmare if you want to protect all your work, just in case.

[GerryDavid]

It doesnt sound to hard, just toss them all onto a dvd and mail it into the government office and its all registered. Doesnt sound like a nightmare to me. :0)

[pcDigiMan]

I was under the impression you needed to print out what you registered to the US Gov. You were allowed to reduce the image size so you could get half dozen or so images on a sheet. When you are registered the $$$ you recover in the courts is larger than if you were not registered.
So 2000 photos divided by 6 gives you 333 sheets of paper. Yes, must be a better way.

[GerryDavid]

Its my understanding you just send them a cd and the completed form, no contact sheet of all the pictures your registering.

[defordphoto]

First, let me say that I am not an expert in US Copyright Law, however I am not sure you are correct about this.

See the info here which describes how to secure copyright in the US at http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hsc

I'm not going to read the whole site, so it's more than possible that there's a contradictory phrase in there somewhere, but that statement is quite clear to me.

I know that here in the UK, and I assumed all of the Treaty countries, copyright exists at the moment of creation. You do not need to state anywhere in the photo that you own it, you don't have to put a copyright notice and you don't need to put the little (c) mark anywhere on it.

Everyone's mixing up countries here. The US is much more restrictive than most other countries. Yes, everyone's photos are automatically copyrighted as soon as you push the shutter button. Heck, every post on this forum is copyrighted as soon as you type it. BUT (in the USA), if you want full, legal recourse, you HAVE to register your photos. As previously stated, you can place thousands of photos on a DVD, fill out the form, mail it to the copyright office and there ya go.

[andygrif]

Everyone's mixing up countries here. The US is much more restrictive than most other countries. Yes, everyone's photos are automatically copyrighted as soon as you push the shutter button. Heck, every post on this forum is copyrighted as soon as you type it. BUT (in the USA), if you want full, legal recourse, you HAVE to register your photos. As previously stated, you can place thousands of photos on a DVD, fill out the form, mail it to the copyright office and there ya go.

As I said, I don't know about US laws - but another part of the FAQ I posted from the USCO says you need to send $30 for EACH application. Does that mean the tog sending a DVD of 100 images needs to send it with a cheque for $3,000?

[defordphoto]

As I said, I don't know about US laws - but another part of the FAQ I posted from the USCO says you need to send $30 for EACH application. Does that mean the tog sending a DVD of 100 images needs to send it with a cheque for $3,000?

Nope. One CD/DVD is one application. And you can send in reduced sized photos. So, you have the potential for registering thousands of photos for one application. It is not a difficult process.

[redbutt]

Just because everyone seems so interested in this. I've been through this many times for visual art as well as audio recordings. Here is the official 'law' for how copyright is attained.
---
Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

In the case of works made for hire, the employer and not the employee is considered to be the author. Section 101 of the copyright law defines a "work made for hire" as:

* (1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment; or
* (2) a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as:
o a contribution to a collective work
o a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work
o a translation
o a supplementary work
o a compilation
o an instructional text
o a test
o answer material for a test
o an atlas
---
You'll notice that the work for hire section is very careful about the definition of an employee and 'work for hire'. This is why it's a good idea in any contract you create for a job to specify the copyright arrangements. The definition of a 'fixed' form is this:

--
Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. "Copies" are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm. "Phonorecords" are material objects embodying fixations of sounds (excluding, by statutory definition, motion picture soundtracks), such as cassette tapes, CDs, or LPs. Thus, for example, a song (the "work") can be fixed in sheet music (" copies") or in phonograph disks (" phonorecords"), or both.
--

Now, specifically to the topic of this thread:

---
Copyright protection is available for all unpublished works, regardless of the nationality or domicile of the author.

Published works are eligible for copyright protection in the United States if any one of the following conditions is met:

* On the date of first publication, one or more of the authors is a national or domiciliary of the United States, or is a national, domiciliary, or sovereign authority of a treaty party,* or is a stateless person wherever that person may be domiciled; or
* A treaty party is a country or intergovernmental organization other than the United States that is a party to an international agreement.
* The work is first published in the United States or in a foreign nation that, on the date of first publication, is a treaty party. For purposes of this condition, a work that is published in the United States or a treaty party within 30 days after publication in a foreign nation that is not a treaty party shall be considered to be first published in the United States or such treaty party, as the case may be; or
* The work is a sound recording that was first fixed in a treaty party; or
* The work is a pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work that is incorporated in a building or other structure, or an architectural work that is embodied in a building and the building or structure is located in the United States or a treaty party; or
* The work is first published by the United Nations or any of its specialized agencies, or by the Organization of American States; or
* The work is a foreign work that was in the public domain in the United States prior to 1996 and its copyright was restored under the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA). Request Circular 38b, "Highlights of Copyright Amendments Contained in the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA-GATT)," for further information.
* The work comes within the scope of a Presidential proclamation.
---

And, lastly, here is why you register your copyright with the US Copyright office. As previously stated by many, it is NOT required...copyright is attained the instant the image is "fixed" in a tangible form (i.e. the moment it is recorded). Point #2 is the main reason.

--
* Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.
* Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U. S. origin.
* If made before or within 5 years of publication, registration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.
* If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.
* Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for protection against the importation of infringing copies. For additional information, request Publication No. 563 "How to Protect Your Intellectual Property Right," from: U.S. Customs Service, P.O. Box 7404, Washington, D.C. 20044. See the U.S. Customs Service Website at www.customs.gov for online publications.

[Stan35mm]

Thanks for this extensive explanation; Considering that my pictures haven't been published before, and I plan to publish them in Canada, I'm not eligible for registering the copyright in US. So I'll do it in Canada.

EDIT: but than I noticed this:
"Copyright protection is available for all unpublished works, regardless of the nationality or domicile of the author."
so since I haven't published it yet, I'm eligible to register it in US (although I live in Canada).

If I read it correctly, I still have two options (Canada or US). I wonder which one is better. One would argue that it doesn't matter, but it's not that simple. For example, you need to submitt a copy of the work while registering copyright in US. In Canada you don't submit it! Sure it's less hassle in Canada, but in reality, how can one prove that the picture in question is the one I registered for copyright? In other words, the benefits of registering copyright in Canada seem to be harder to enforce if needed.

[Monito]

you need to submitt a copy of the work while registering copyright in US. In Canada you don't submit it! Sure it's less hassle in Canada, but in reality, how can one prove that the picture in question is the one I registered for copyright? In other words, the benefits of registering copyright in Canada seem to be harder to enforce if needed.This seems to be my reading of it too. Works published in Canada are submitted to the National Library, but I was unable to find any way to submit copies of unpublished photographs for registration purposes.

In the US, where I will be registering photos, the mutiple photos on a CD concept seems well enough defined. However, CDs are notoriously fickle about being playable and their durability is in doubt. Is it possible to submit thumbnail printouts at the same time as a CD for unpublished work? Is this effective?

In practical terms, if you are infringed against and are unable to collect compensation without suing, the defendant's lawyer will look up the copies early in the process. If the CD will not play, then you may be out of luck, and out of pocket for legal fees for filing a suit that has to be dropped, right?

[scrumpy]

I have read this thread with interest and did a 'Google' on copyright for the UK. Here in the UK, it seems that as soon as you press the shutter, you own the copyright of what ever appears on the card. You CANNOT physically register your pics in the UK. You don't even need to put the copyright logo on a picture either. Just prove that the original is yours and you can sue.