How come canon bodie don't have..

[kouasupra]

...a flash triggering system like the nikon. When will canon ever make such a system? I think that's the only flaw from canon.

[justaf IREMAN]

Are you talking about a IR/RF slave or an actual button to trigger the flash?

[kouasupra]

Are you talking about a IR/RF slave or an actual button to trigger the flash?

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/ittlslave.htm

I think it's the ir/rf system

[Bob_A]

I believe he's talking about Nikon CLS where you can use the onboard flash as a master to trigger other flashes with iTTL or in Manual.

[BEEEsH]

While we're at it, can someone get us an AF-Assist Lamp?

[single_track]

Reading 'The hot shoe diaries' helped me to realize how advanced the Nikon flash system is in comparison to Canon. The SB-900 is quite impressive.

[twofruitz]

Try asking a Nikon engineer to build an 85mm f1.2L.

It would be like asking a monkey to make a cake.

[Lightstream]

It's called the ST-E2.

Try picking up one sometime. If you have a 5D or 1D, you'll also realize why it is better to have a ST-E2.

[justaf IREMAN]

It's called the ST-E2.

Try picking up one sometime. If you have a 5D or 1D, you'll also realize why it is better to have a ST-E2.

better system IMO for portraits, it emits IR and does not contaminate the shot with unwanted on board flash.

[District_History_Fan]

Reading 'The hot shoe diaries' helped me to realize how advanced the Nikon flash system is in comparison to Canon. The SB-900 is quite impressive.

Anyone think maybe the follow on to the 580EXII migt have a 200mm zoom head like the flagship Nikon flash? lol :)

[single_track]

The 200mm zoom is one feature we are missing. This would be nice.

[single_track]

Try asking a Nikon engineer to build an 85mm f1.2L.

It would be like asking a monkey to make a cake.

:D:D:D

[robojack]

The 200mm zoom is one feature we are missing. This would be nice. Are you referring to a different spread pattern for different focal lengths and picture styles?

[tharmsen]

I agree the Nikon system is more advanced but I don't use camera flashes all that often. Rarely actually. And when I do, it's usually a single strobe mounted for something like family shots. For my creative stuff, I use studio lights.

It's not a selling point to me.

[egordon99]

Anyone think maybe the follow on to the 580EXII migt have a 200mm zoom head like the flagship Nikon flash? lol :)

I've used my 580EXII with my 100-400L @ 400mm. it worked fine.

[Lightstream]

I've used my 580EXII with my 100-400L @ 400mm. it worked fine.

The Better Beamer works good too, if you really need that focal length coverage :)

[Methodical]

The Better Beamer works good too, if you really need that focal length coverage :)

Even better if you use a flash bracket

[single_track]

Are you referring to a different spread pattern for different focal lengths and picture styles?

Yes, the 900 can zoom to 200 while the 580 is limited to 105mm.

I've used my 580EXII with my 100-400L @ 400mm. it worked fine.

My comments was not intended to mean the 580 does not work past 105mm, only that the concentrated and focused beam of 900 (200mm) would facilitate further distances and act as an automatic snoot or sorts.

I am not saying the Canon flash system sucks, just as I dive in and learn more about flash work, the Nikon system seems to be more flexible and more complete (and more expensive). Just an observation.

[zincozinco]

I agree the Nikon system is more advanced but I don't use camera flashes all that often. Rarely actually. And when I do, it's usually a single strobe mounted for something like family shots. For my creative stuff, I use studio lights.

It's not a selling point to me.

+1 I dont think that there is so much more you can do with an "advanced" on camera anyway.

[Trey T]

too many zoom selection. I would rather want a more powerful intensity lighting than having bunch of zoom selection.
The 200mm zoom is one feature we are missing. This would be nice.

[Village_Idiot]

better system IMO for portraits, it emits IR and does not contaminate the shot with unwanted on board flash.

I believe CLS operates with a pre flash so you don't get the "unwanted on board flash".

[nphsbuckeye]

For the person that has no clue what CLS is, can someone write up a short memo explaining the Nikon system over the Canon? Thanks.

[Village_Idiot]

Depends on what you're shooting. Using a 580EX II on camera (Group A Master disabled) it does contaminate the photo with the pre-flash shooting at f/1.2 I can fix this by rotating the head of the 580EX II up and around. I am not sure if the pop up flash on the Nikon system can rotate out of the way.

Then again I don't use ETTL-II and use it just for triggering indoors manually when I'm lazy and can't be bothered going to each flash to adjust power settings. I wish I could adjust the zoom of each head via on camera though instead as a whole.

CLS is Nikon's system. I think I've had Nikon users tell me that the pop up emits a pre flash and doesn't actually have to flash at the time of exposure so that it won't be caught in the actual exposure.

For the person that has no clue what CLS is, can someone write up a short memo explaining the Nikon system over the Canon? Thanks.

CLS is on the DXX line and up. It's a built in wireless control that allows you to control multiple off camera Nikon speed lights with either auto TTL functions or by adjusting the setting manually from the camera.

Neat system. It has it's limitations but it also has it's strengths.

[tkbslc]

CLS is on the DXX line and up. It's a built in wireless control that allows you to control multiple off camera Nikon speed lights with either auto TTL functions or by adjusting the setting manually from the camera.

Neat system. It has it's limitations but it also has it's strengths.

Actually, the d40/60/5000 series does not have cls.

[egordon99]

Pentax allows you to use the pop-up flash to trigger off camera (P-TTL) flashes. You can have the pop-up contribute to the exposure (pop-up emits pre-flash and the flash during the exposure), or just control the off-camera flash (only emits the pre-flash)

[griptape]

It's been a while since I've read this, so I'm not 100% it's true, but I believe Nikon patented a pretty large number of flash related gadgetry in the 80's, and that's why Canon's flash system is somewhat inferior.

[egordon99]

With Canon, if you stick a 580EXII (or original 580 and possibly some other flashes) on your hot shoe, you can do most of what the Nikon CLS system does.

[nphsbuckeye]

CLS is on the DXX line and up. It's a built in wireless control that allows you to control multiple off camera Nikon speed lights with either auto TTL functions or by adjusting the setting manually from the camera.

Neat system. It has it's limitations but it also has it's strengths.
Thanks.

[Village_Idiot]

Actually, the d40/60/5000 series does not have cls.

Forgot that the entry level Nikons weren't DXXX.

[J_TULLAR]

yea and why dont canons have the rear curtain front curtain blah blah feature on their onboard flash. My friends d300 has it and it urks me. He can get cool night pics with dof that I just cant do on my 40D :(... or is the feature there ?

[JWright]

It's called the ST-E2.

Try picking up one sometime. If you have a 5D or 1D, you'll also realize why it is better to have a ST-E2.

Why create a system like Nikon's when you can get your customers to buy an additional $200 accessory? It's just good marketing strategy.

[J_TULLAR]

Why create a system like Nikon's when you can get your customers to buy an additional $200 accessory? It's just good marketing strategy.

Are you AD NAVY Chief?

[CyberDyneSystems]

yea and why dont canons have the rear curtain front curtain blah blah feature on their onboard flash. My friends d300 has it and it urks me. He can get cool night pics with dof that I just cant do on my 40D :(... or is the feature there ?

Every Canon camera I've owned with an onboard flash has had this, .. what camera do you have that you don't? It should be a in the custom function menu.. ?
Im sure the 40D has it.


That said, Noink still has the more advanced flash system ...

[J_TULLAR]

Every Canon camera I've owned with an onboard flash has had this, .. what camera do you have that you don't? It should be a in the custom function menu.. ?

hmm... maybe its labeled differently than nikon? I have a 40D ... Care to enlighten a noob :D

[CyberDyneSystems]

Well, now you got me curious, I just read through the 40D manual, ( i'm not a 40D owner) and it's not listed in the CF settings!

Did Canon really remove this basic setting? I'm amazed!
The 20D had it, I'm sure!

[J_TULLAR]

see... I kept looking for it and couldnt find anything. Wow cant believe no ones noticed this yet lol.

[Javiert92]

hmm... maybe its labeled differently than nikon? I have a 40D ... Care to enlighten a noob :D

Well, now you got me curious, I just read through the 40D manual, ( i'm not a 40D owner) and it's not listed in the CF settings!

Did Canon really remove this basic setting? I'm amazed!
The 20D had it, I'm sure!
Don't know much about flash but I recall seeing in my 40D's menu something about 1st and 2nd curtain, don't know if that is what you refer to.

[CyberDyneSystems]

That's what we are looking for... yes.

[single_track]

it is in the flash menu on the 40d, not the custom functions.

[J_TULLAR]

yea where is that damn thing lol.

[J_TULLAR]

well Ill be damned there it is lol, Thanks to everyone :D haha screw you d300 !!!

[CyberDyneSystems]

it is in the flash menu on the 40d, not the custom functions.

thanks! I was looking in the wrong place!

[kouasupra]

It's called the ST-E2.

Try picking up one sometime. If you have a 5D or 1D, you'll also realize why it is better to have a ST-E2.

Had it, sold it! I just think that if Canon had the same system like the Nikon their camera bodie would be worth a lot more IMO. Sure, the 580EX/ST-E2 can do the job slaving other flash, but it's just not as neat as having it in your camera function. .02 cent

[kouasupra]

Yes, the 900 can zoom to 200 while the 580 is limited to 105mm.

That's pretty darn impressive! I didn't know they sb900 was so much more advance than the Canon.

[tharmsen]

Had it, sold it! I just think that if Canon had the same system like the Nikon their camera bodie would be worth a lot more IMO. Sure, the 580EX/ST-E2 can do the job slaving other flash, but it's just not as neat as having it in your camera function. .02 cent
Well heck, I guess that means Canon will have to break the tradition of leaving the noob light off their pro bodies and start putting it back on. :)

I can only imagine how goofy a 1D would look with a pop-up flash. :)

[single_track]

I certainly was not referring to a pop up flash.

[tharmsen]

I certainly was not referring to a pop up flash.
That's a key element to the CLS system.

[davidfig]

That's a key element to the CLS system.
Yes and since its from the flash (not IR) it is more workable than canon.

[single_track]

I don't know much about cls. The D3 and D3x seem to be compatible without a pop up flash, right? I have been reading about the sb900, its zoom, its wireless system, its high speed sync and other features that seem to leave the 580exII behind. It just seems to me that the Nikon system has a more complete and more flexible flash system.

I love my 5d and my new 580exII. Just looking over the wall a bit.

[tharmsen]

I don't know much about cls. The D3 and D3x seem to be compatible without a pop up flash, right? I have been reading about the sb900, its zoom, its wireless system, its high speed sync and other features that seem to leave the 580exII behind. It just seems to me that the Nikon system has a more complete and more flexible flash system.

I love my 5d and my new 580exII. Just looking over the wall a bit.
The D3 doesn't have a pop-up flash, the last camera in their line-up to have one is the D700. The D3 uses a SB800 or SB900 to do the CLS stuff.

Yes, Nikon's flash system is more advanced than Canon's. If you don't have the money for proper studio lights and want to do the strobist thing exclusively, the CLS system offers more than the Canon system.

That's not to say you can't shoot the Canon system. I had great success using my 580EXII as a master and two remote 430EXII's as slaves. It works fine. But the CLS system is pretty slick with its added features.

[shadowcat]

Canon needs a built in RF system in there camera's for there flashes.

[kouasupra]

Canon needs a built in RF system in there camera's for there flashes.

I couldn't agree more..

[Bob_A]

I believe CLS operates with a pre flash so you don't get the "unwanted on board flash".

CLS is Nikon's system. I think I've had Nikon users tell me that the pop up emits a pre flash and doesn't actually have to flash at the time of exposure so that it won't be caught in the actual exposure.


They were incorrect if they told you the preflash (emitting data to the other flashes) doesn't get captured. While it makes a very tiny catchlight, it's there.

Nikon has the following device that is supposed to ensure this doesn't happen:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/410445-REG/Nikon_4905_SG_3IR_IR_Panel.html

[apersson850]

In Nikon's manual for their SB-900 they state that the command flash, even if master flash is turned "off", can be visible in the images when using high ISO and/or large apertures.

Canon doesn't say anything, but I measured the command flash from my 580 EX II and found that it's about 1/1024 of full power.

[jklewer]

7D answers this huh?

[Josh_30]

Yep, it would seem so. Not a super useful feature to me, but I guess it's easy enough to add to the body and it's another bullet point to sell more cameras. I can't see this ever reaching the 5D or 1D series though.