Leica ... closer to bancruptcy now ... waiting for May 31

[Andy_T]

This is certainly bad news to many photography fans ... even those that can not really afford Leica's products :rolleyes:

I just read an article in the last week's print version of the German weekly 'Der Spiegel'.... with the notion that Leica might be close to bankruptcy.

After the announcement of the large loss (half the paid-in capital) in February, many banks cancelled their credit lines and the board now has to find new sources of capital until the extraordinary board meeting on May 31.

If you know German (or know the link to Babelfish), you might read more here: http://www.golem.de/0503/37100.html

And yes, as one of the major reasons for the imminent bankruptcy, Der Spiegel cited the former CEO with the words 'Digital is just a fad, like e-mails. People will always love to take real photographs'.

Best regards, Andy

[roanjohn]

:(

Sad......

Ro1

[sdommin]

And yes, as one of the major reasons for the imminent bankruptcy, Der Spiegel cited the former CEO with the words 'Digital is just a fad, like e-mails. People will always love to take real photographs'.

Der Spiegel is right to point out the CEO's words; Leica's half-hearted jump into the digital world and their stubborn insistence on film cameras became their doom. We've been discussing this on the Leica Forum for over a year now.

[Citizensmith]

Yeah, sad to see such a name go. Never owned anything leica, but they are a part of the photographic pantheon. I'm sure someone will snap up their IP.

Leica going would be kind of like discovering market pressures had turned the world renowned name Levi from a solid symbol of America into a pale, made on the cheap, 100% south American copy.

Oh wait, that already happened didn't it. :)

[Streetshooter]

Yeah..real bummer...I sold all my Leica's a year ago and have used them for 40 years.....sad times but digital is here to stay...Leica just never got it........don

[cactusclay]

Didn't I hear Contax having the same fate recently? That's too bad.I really liked my M6 and had considered getting another one some day.

[Tom W]

Contax is definately being discontinued. I believe that Kyocera owns Contax, and has decided that there is no profit in high-end camera gear.

I hope that Leica doesn't suffer the same fate. Perhaps they should start reverse-engineering AF lenses in Canon and Nikon mount like Sigma and Tamron.

[Citizensmith]

My money would be on Tamron, Sigma or somebody buying them to get the name association.

[lostdoggy]

I'll bet that the Vitec Group,Parent Company of Bogen Imaging, will swallow Leica up. But then again Tamron has Bronica. Sigma could also be a player too since they need a name to sell their Forveon powered DSLR. What better name to use then Leica. Think about this all those people who must have a Prada or Hermes or Gucci or LV or what ever expensive brand out there can't be caught dead carrying anything less the most expensive and well respected camera name. Key word is name.

[Andy_T]

And Panasonic has been producing digital cameras with 'Leica' lenses (and even the Leica compact digicam) for quite some time now.

Don't know about their financial whereabouts and plans, but they also might be interested - now we're talking takeover fantasies.

Best regards,
Andy

[Rob612]

RIP

I am really sorry to hear this. I still have some faithful Leicas. I think I will stop use them and keep as a memory of when Leica WAS Leica (its an old IIIc with a couple of lenses and an R3 with some lenses as well).

[TheBlindOne]

ok here it is.
1. Drop the MF SLR line completely. thats right get rid of the Rs. and while we are at it dump the preasent digis and the modul-r.
2. Suck up your pride and go to canon and/or nikon and colaborate on a series of "super Ls" I bet that pro photogs would pay the extra $$ for Leica glass on a 1DS MKII. It MUST BE AF however.
3. Suck up pride again and get the rights to produce and develope with the Ferveon sensor into the briliant idea that it is and produce the Digi body all the pros have been waiting for.
a)make a new body the xR, make it compatable with the old glass but give it AF as well.
b)make it sensor interchangeable as well and produce SEVERAL differant sensors. A 5 mp an 8 mp and a 12 mp in APS-c and Full Frame, a 16 mp or 22 mp in full frame only that has scan capabilities with an upgrade interface that you sell for $500 or $1000, a dedicated B&W sensor that is full frame and able to model differant films (ilford pan-x, tri-x, tech-pan, etc.) instead of ISOs, a dedicated IR sensor that has the IR filter built in, a ultra violet with the same, you get the general idea.
c) AF AF AF AF AF AF
d) be able to shoot at 3 FPS until the card is full.
e) have multiple bodies. one that is titanium and Carbon Fiber that is sealed and able to withstand a saharian dust storm, a walkabout body like the 20d, etc.
f) for gods sake hire some one to make the camera ergonomic.
g) take this knowledge and make a digi RF that come to market before the epson DR-2 and is cheaper.
h) the dSLR shell should be less than $1200 and the most expensive sensor, the scanning 16 mp or 22 mp, should be no more than $4000. the idea is that a PJ could have a body with a lens for less than 4 grand.
4) a student discount program that sells at or near cost. catch em young and keep em for life.
5) lower all current prices by about 20-25%
6) FIRE ALL bean counters in upper management and on board and replace with photographers who love leica.
7)make the parts for the cameras in asia then assemble in europe.

ok there it is now will someone loan me about $75,000,000 to do this. ;)
this would work better is everyone wised up and made me king,
Riaz

[roanjohn]

Maybe the upcoming Leica Module R (10 mpx digital back) will be thier saving grace............hopefully.............

However, http://www.leica-camera.com/imperia/md/content/pdf/rsystem/31.pdf.

:-(

Still...........it would be interesting. It's really thier first intro in the digital interchangeable lens market.

Ro1

[CyberDyneSystems]

The Leica-Panasonic relationship mentioned By Andy is allready in existance.. it doesn't seem like a natural fit though.. but on the other hand Panasonic has made some forays into some diverse markets you may not be aware of. (most failed however :( )

I just can't quite see why Leica can't pull themselves out of this spiral.
If there previous existing market is dwindling.. then it isn't being lost to other film cameras... it's being lost to Digital...

So why on Earth can't a line of Digital Cameras pull them back into business?

Leica could work with Panasonic to cut there own expenses re: investment into Digital technlogy research.. and still have bodies out there to make there lenses for.

Also Leica has allways been an optics company.. forget camera bodies.. all kinds of Optics. Are they losing that marketshare too? Maybe no one knows who Leica is anymore.

they actually had a very good line of Professional PA sound reinforcement gear back in the mid '80s through early '90s.. "Ramsa" unfortunately went under. Too bad too,. there Amps and Cabinets were incredible for there price range.

[Andy_T]

Well,

all of these propositions might be good ... but they use a lot of money ... and they don't have any at the moment :confused:

Too little, too late.

Best regards,
Andy

[Tom W]

Wouldn't it be a cool day if "L" stood for Leica?

[Bodog]

Isn't Epson making a pricey digital range finder that uses Leica lenses? Isn't Epson's parent company Seiko? That would be an interesting match...

[KennyG]

OPM, if anyone remembers that film. As Danny Devito said, that last man making buggy whips made the best buggy whips in the world.

I shot with Leica and loved it, but the world moves on. If it didn't we would still be using quill pens and the pony express to send messages.

[cactusclay]

Wouldn't it be a cool day if "L" stood for Leica?
Ha ha ha :) . I would think that with the interchangable focusing screens on the pro bodies, that even manul focus Leica lenses would be worth using, if they worked with the meter. I wouldn't mind using mf lenses, because I sort of miss the solidly built small lenses anyway, but to tell truth, I never really did care that much for my R4, what I really liked was the M series bodies and I think they should somehow keep that alive. Maybe an M-module or something.

[lostdoggy]

How about a M series full frame CMOS 16MP Range finder???

[Moments]

Very very sad. The digital revolution strikes again !! You have to learn to go with the flow and move with the times or die.

[lostdoggy]

This reminds me of the story about the Patent office agent closing the office because he believe that everything that can be invented have been invented!!!

[soupdragon]

What about go with the flow and die?

Going with the flow is exactly the thing that erodes our individuality.
In case you hadn't noticed, the world of slr photography is rapidly being narrowed down to Canon vs Nikon.
When one of the consumer electronic giants finally wins, there goes your choice.
Then you will be stuck with whatever the manufacturer says you can have.

Then we all lose.

[soupdragon]

Good Point there,.

[roanjohn]

http://lfi.portrix.net/ceemes/base.php?webfile/show/454/

This is one sexy beast!!!

Ro1

[rdenney]

Wouldn't it be a cool day if "L" stood for Leica?

Maybe. But you might be surprised at how good the L zooms really are. Leica lenses are no better designed than Canon lenses--they just throw away more of them (okay, that's a bit of generalization but it isn't far off). Canon could tighten their quality control raise their prices more, and produce similar products.

As usual, Andy is right. All the plans for Leica's resurrection call for an infusion of capital. That means a good business plan, and someone wiling to fund it. It's hard to sell a business plan to investors that praises a strategy publicly derided by the current management. And you have to pay your top technicians to stick around while you develop the new line, and if you were one of E. Leitz's top technicians, would you be "busy" if Carl Zeiss gave you a call?

Rick "who thinks a technology shift requires foresight, not hindsight" Denney

[rdenney]

What about go with the flow and die?

Going with the flow is exactly the thing that erodes our individuality.
In case you hadn't noticed, the world of slr photography is rapidly being narrowed down to Canon vs Nikon.
When one of the consumer electronic giants finally wins, there goes your choice.
Then you will be stuck with whatever the manufacturer says you can have.

Then we all lose.

Wait'll Pentax comes out with their digital 645 next year. 18.6-MP sensor with 9-micron photosites, which, by my calculation, is a sensor 35x43. Price point well under the 1DsII (I hear $7500). Excellent lenses already available with manual focus lenses fully compatible. The larger sensor will outperform the smaller sensor, and we may see event and studio pros going back to "medium format". I predict it will be a winner if it's not just vaporware.

It's not a matter of Canon and Nikon pushing out the old, but someone not yet coming up with an alternative New that meets a different set of requirements.

Rick "who'd rather have the Pentax as described than a 1DsII, and who has lenses for both" Denney

[lostdoggy]

You are forgetting that there are alot of Billionaires out there who don't know what to do with their money. With an establish name like Leica at bargain basement price I'm sure they will find ways of making it come to life. Just look at St Dupont and Cartier, both of these companies were in trouble and now they are in the black. All because someone believe in the name.

[Andy_T]

They recently also postponed the launch of the digital back ... read more here: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0505/05051202leica_modulr.asp

Best regards,
Andy

[Andy_T]

Well, we forget about the update ...

The board meeting of Leica approved of the measures deemed necessary at the moment to save Leica.

So ... future will tell :D

Best regards,
Andy

[Redbird_xo]

The current faith of Leica shouldn't be a surprise to some of the people who followed or read about M&A transactions. The current major shareholder of Leica, if I'm not mistaken, is a french name who specializes in luxury goods market (ready-to-wear, leather, perfumes, etc.). I'm no expert in management theory, but I think this is a mismatch.

[lordjim]

There is still some hope. Ilford was also close to bankruptcy not long ago. There have been some significant restructuring and it seems that it is up again. So we should probably expect the same from Leica. They have such a prestigious name. I think they can still capitalize on it. Even if I do not use their products, far too expensive for me, I would be sad to see them go bankrupt.

[Belmondo]

I just traveled up to the San Francisco Bay Area last weekend. I stopped into Keeble & Schuchat in Palo Alto, a large camera store. As luck would have it, it was their 40th anniversary celebration, and they had reps from many of the major camera manufacturers showing off their wares. The biggest crowds were at the Leica counter.

I guess that isn't so surprising in a place that's populated by large numbers of pipe smoking millionaires who sport beards, wear Birkenstock sandals, pocket protectors. and cargo pants full of gizmos.

It was interesting watching them OOOH and AAAH over rangefinder cameras based on 40-year old designs, packaged in wooden boxes. It must be the box.

[KevC]

That DMR is seski as H! I want one... :)

[Andy_T]

The current major shareholder of Leica, if I'm not mistaken, is a french name who specializes in luxury goods market (ready-to-wear, leather, perfumes, etc.). I'm no expert in management theory, but I think this is a mismatch.

I don't really think so. :wink:
It even led to a special edition of the Leica M series with special Hermes leather casing.
Sounds more compelling an argument to me for buying the camera than just the photographic features :lol:

http://www.leica-camera.com/imperia/md/images/leica/produkte/msystem/sondermodelle/1_392x300.jpg

Best regards,
Andy

[Tom W]

Leica could do real well by selling the 19 mm Elmarit-R with the Canon EOS adapter included. :)

[Redbird_xo]

I don't really think so. :wink:
It even led to a special edition of the Leica M series with special Hermes leather casing.
Sounds more compelling an argument to me for buying the camera than just the photographic features :lol:

http://www.leica-camera.com/imperia/md/images/leica/produkte/msystem/sondermodelle/1_392x300.jpg

Best regards,
Andy

Hi Andy, I appreciate your different opinion. People who buy Leica aren't those on a tight budget, but I am just curious how much a "product" with two renowned brand names together would go for? Personally, I like Hermes products as evident by having a few of their items. And I truly believe Leica has its reputation for high quality rangefinders. But these two together just don't make much economics sense.

Someone please ask Mr. Dumas about it. ;)

[Andy_T]

People who buy Leica aren't those on a tight budget, but I am just curious how much a "product" with two renowned brand names together would go for?

Well, THAT part of the question I can answer.

The Leica MP .72 'Hermes edition' set sells for 8500$ at B+H, compared to buying the normal (black) camera and the 35/2.0 summicron lens for a total of about 6100$.

So for 2400$ more you get ... a silver camera :lol:
If that won't make the 300D crowd happy, I don't know what will...

Best regards,
Andy

[Chris Sandström]

Hi,
I've looked into what happened to Leica and tried to explain their problems in the following presentation:

http://www.slideshare.net/Christiansandstrom/leica-cameras-in-deep-trouble-presentation

It's indeed a fascinating story, especially given how early Leica entered and try to do something with digital photography.

Best,

Chris

[MDJAK]

that was a very exhaustive and complete slideshow. I enjoyed it.

Thanks.

mark

[condyk]

Interesting ...

[neilwood32]

Well it survived but still not exactly burning up the markets.