4 digit file numbers too short?

[geoffh]

I am running an EOS10D and an EOS20D together and am taking so many pics that the file numbers are overlapping leading to big confusion on my hard drive. I have reset one camera to start from 0000 but they overlap again pretty quickly (really). And even if you keep similar file names separated on the disk Sods Law says sooner or later they end up in the same folder.

Long filenames are the answer, preferably a text line prefix in camera (Canon please note). One way is to put a differentiator (e.g. a prefix) on the file name. The 20D allows the folder name to be changed (say 100CANON to 200CANON) using Windows Explorer, which helps slightly, but the 10D recreates the 100CANON folder name whatever you do. In any case the folder name does not get copied onto the PC.

I do all copying by transferring the flashcard. Is there an in-camera way to differentiate? Or which can transfer the folder name too? Or something which allows me to add further info automatically, such as the day/time/session data?

I know this can all be done later in Photoshop but that means sitting down and thinking. My photo sessions (conferences, football matches, carnivals) seem to demand rapid transfer of large numbers of files on the spot, so thinking is not good ... and losing files due to duplicate filenames is even worse!

[S230]

Not sure about the 10D and changing on the spot but as for offline, I had ran into this problem 2 years ago and since then I had been using a date convention. What I would do is rename the IMG_xxxx to let's say this month to 0505xxxx (x's are the file number).
I keep the digits to 8 digits becasue incase of compatibility issue. As for naming per month, the chances of duplicating within a month is minized unless you take more than 9999 a month. In this case, just add extra letter to end. With my S230 camera, i have over 30000 photos on it and you can imagine if I had to search for a unique number.

Personally when I do it onsite, i generally use different CF cards and when after a session I backup onto my PD7X which creates a new folder for every transfer.

Hope this helps.

[ProAc_Fan]

Batch renaming in photoshop really isn't all that time consuming. I mean, hell, you give the files a name, select the numbering order and the software does all the work in seconds.


Mike

[jyrgen]

I use batch rename in BreezeBrowser right after downloading the files to the computer (I download them with ZoomBrowser, which is configured to create folders according to shooting date). I have configured BreezeBrowser to prefix the shooting date to the said four digits, but one can configure it to form the file name from many different system variables or constants, including those from exif, like aperture value or ISO.

[S230]

Just to add, to batch rename for canon files can be done straight in command mode.
for both Win98, Windows 2000 and XP, you can copy using explorer into a directory. let's assume c:\temp
click on Start and select run
type in "command" or "CMD"
in dos prompt, you change directory to the temp folder.. "cd \temp"
from there is where all the files are located. You type in:
rename IMG_????.jpg 0505????.jpg
this will almost instantly rename all files leading with IMG_ to the year and month you specified. This is much more direct approach than using any fancy applications.

hope this helps. :)

[aam1234]

Don't know if this is applicable or not, using ZoomBrowser to dowload, it asks you to give a prefex. That's why I prefer ZoomBrowser for downlaoding.

[Longwatcher]

You obviously need to upgrade just for that. :D

My 1DsMkII has a unique file name coming out the camera that I can't change if I wanted to until it gets on my computer. "VI0S_####" for trivia (although if in Adobe RGB it will be "_I0S_####" )

It is actually both good and bad and I personally would prefer to be able to change it as needed, but on the other hand it does prove RAW pictures are from MY camera.

[S230]

For file naming convention, I personlly don't like the way Canon had created it. What is worst is that if you use the same flash card and put it into another canon camera, it would reset the filenumber on the other camera or vice versa. I run into this problem quite often and is fustrating. (Don't share flash card between Canon cameras).
I haven't really experienced too much with higher models of Canon but with the Nikon D70 don't seem to have this problem. They can create a folder within the camera and place photos as they take them within that ONE folder until user chooses to create another one. Wished Canon would had thought about that option. Unless somebody can come up with a new firmware hack that can incorporate this function.

[karusel]

How curious... Apparently there haven't been enough heavy shooters complaining about this, as I'm sure Canon could fix that in a second, say, add another #, or while tey're at it, two ##.

[Digital Prophet]

I know that I am criminally insane. But I have a file naminq system that I use that not only stops overlap but also makes image identification easier.

It is made of a 13 digit alpha-numberic system based on: Purpose of the photo (i.e. personal, stock, sale, online use etc.)
Category of photo (i.e. Horse and Rider, Architecture - General, Arcitecture - Interior, Commissioned City Project etc.)
Camera used (300D, RB67 etc.)
Location (Name of Ranch, Houston - Downtown, Houston - Zoo etc.)
Format photo was shot in (Raw, JPEG)
Subject (Client name, Project number)
And finally a four digit image number Sample file name: C31-A05-A31-0001.JPG

That tells me that it is a Sale Photo that was shot for the City of Sugar Land shot with my 300D at the Sugar Land Regional Airport in RAW format and it is a Miscellaneous Group Photo and that it is the first one in that category.

I have been using this system for over a year and have been so pleased. It seems complicated but batch renaming makes it so easy in BreezeBrowser and over converters. And I can't tell you how many times I have had someone call for an image and how fast it is to find this way.

Try it, you might find out you are insane too.

- Digital Prophet -

[OviV]

Try my free utility that I wrote for my use and have shared with others. It will put files in separate folders by camera model and can prepend photographer's initials to file names.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43292

[Sicily1918]

Hmmm... I generally create a directory with the subject (e.g. "San Diego" or "Beach" or "Milliways") and dump all the xxxCANON directories in there -- I never worry about file overlap because they can't.

As for the numbering system, CF cards (most NV RAM media for that matter) work on FAT, which is limited to the 8.3 naming convention. If they're gonna call it "IMG_" you only have 9999 numbers to use (since they don't use 0000). I suppose they could call it CA (for Canon) or DG (digital) and add a dash, that'd give us 100,000 numbers (CA-xxxxx.JPG); surely more than enough? ;)

[karusel]

digital prophet: Wow, so.. you're off your pills for over a year? :lol:

I wanna be insane too, but the tutorial you provided doesn't help. Requesting detailed instructions. What's C31?

Also, I have a similarly insane idea for those who don't shoot for clients: go through all your photos, pick out the best, copy them in one folder (or two if numbers are naughty and overlapping), go through them again, force yourself to dump 50% of the not-so-good ones. If you're like me, you'll have a pretty thin folder and no trouble renaming every file to a text description. :D

[Jon]

Like many others, I rename mine in batch. Format's aaa-bbbb_cam.*, where aaa is the camera's folder number; bbbb's the file number from the frame, and cam is 20D, D60, A80 as appropriate. So a typical file would be 160-6023_D60.JPG.

[iwatkins]

Get yourself a copy of BreezeSystems Downloader Pro, it'll do it all for you.

Once setup you just plug a CF card into the card reader and away it goes.

I currently only have the one camera, so Downloader Pro is currently configured to name mine as follows:

\Year\Month\Negatives\Day\yyyymmdd_hhnn_serial.crw

E.g.

\2005\05\Negatives\12\20050512_1752_9678.crw

File name is year, month, day _ time _ serial number

Downloader Pro even creates the directories for you as it goes along. I've even got it configured to create my other working directories for me at the begining of each month, e.g.

\2005\05\Negatives\
\2005\05\PrintReady\
\2005\05\WebReady\

For your problem it can also tag each image with a unique reference based on the camera body.

Worth a look

Cheers

Ian

[Digital Prophet]

Sample file name: C31-A05-A31-0001.JPG

That tells me that it is a Sale Photo that was shot for the City of Sugar Land shot with my 300D at the Sugar Land Regional Airport in RAW format and it is a Miscellaneous Group Photo and that it is the first one in that category.

- Digital Prophet -[/QUOTE]

I have a spreadsheet that is my photolog and each of the first three parts of the file name consist of a letter and a number. The last 4 digits are to sequence the images in that particular group.

So in this case it is like this: C = Sale Photo
31 = City of Sugar Land Project
A = Shot with 300D
05 = The locations was the Sugar Land Regional Airport
A = Shot as RAW
31 = Photo subject is "Miscellaneous Group Shot"
0001 = Order of sequence in this category
.JPG = Files extension
Like I said this really works for me and lets me have completely unique file names that are easily identifiable by me and my clients.

And with a app like Breeze Browser (for example) batch naming this is super super easy.

- Digital Prophet-

[ed2day]

Ian,
I think your system is interesting. Do you find it inconvenient at all when the month rolls over during a trip such that pics from the same trip are displaced on the "file tree"?

[aam1234]

Also, I have a similarly insane idea for those who don't shoot for clients: go through all your photos, pick out the best, copy them in one folder (or two if numbers are naughty and overlapping), go through them again, force yourself to dump 50% of the not-so-good ones. If you're like me, you'll have a pretty thin folder and no trouble renaming every file to a text description. :D

That's an excellent idea karusel. Unfortunately, if I follow it I wouldn't have any photos at all :(

[kevin_c]

As previously stated by iwatkins above - I also use Downloader Pro by Breeze Systems, It is very versitile and enables you to rename as you download to your hard drive in virtually any combination of dates, numbers, text etc.

[S230]

Sample file name: C31-A05-A31-0001.JPG

That tells me that it is a Sale Photo that was shot for the City of Sugar Land shot with my 300D at the Sugar Land Regional Airport in RAW format and it is a Miscellaneous Group Photo and that it is the first one in that category.

- Digital Prophet

I have a spreadsheet that is my photolog and each of the first three parts of the file name consist of a letter and a number. The last 4 digits are to sequence the images in that particular group.

So in this case it is like this: C = Sale Photo
31 = City of Sugar Land Project
A = Shot with 300D
05 = The locations was the Sugar Land Regional Airport
A = Shot as RAW
31 = Photo subject is "Miscellaneous Group Shot"
0001 = Order of sequence in this category
.JPG = Files extension
Like I said this really works for me and lets me have completely unique file names that are easily identifiable by me and my clients.

And with a app like Breeze Browser (for example) batch naming this is super super easy.

- Digital Prophet-I did though about this method before but I later decided to keep the actual filename simple to 8 characters. The Rebel runs on DOS and is limited by that. I can always rename afterwards but I figure for me, I should not go over 9999 photos in a single month. This is not counting assignments that I do such as weddings etc. For Assignments, I create a new folder and a new separate CD for each sesson because I can easily have thousdands in a day. But for normal shots like shots of pets, people, etc.., then my naming convention should be sufficient. The first 2 digit for year and the other for month.... Ie. 05031234.JPG 05=year 03=March 1234=Filenumber JPG=Extension. More importantly is if I decide to upload to another operating system platform such as Mac or unix or whatever., the 8 character convention seems to be most widely accepted.

[Digital Prophet]

My personal opinion on file naming systems is this: Don't just do what works. Work with what you will do.

By that I mean that someone can look at my insane system and say "hey I want to do that" but then find it is too complex or time consuming. So they start piling images with default names that they "plan" to rename later. Whereas if they picked a less detail naming procedure they may be MORE inclined to keep up with it. Thus making the less detailed system the better system for that person.

It really just all comes down to personal work habits and preferences. And medication levels.

- Digital Prophet -

[iwatkins]

Ian,
I think your system is interesting. Do you find it inconvenient at all when the month rolls over during a trip such that pics from the same trip are displaced on the "file tree"?

Ed,

No, not at all. As soon as all the shots are on the computer I tend to add some IPTC tags via Photoshop so that I can search for all images from "That trip of a Lifetime" easily. You can even get Downloader Pro to prompt you for this information once it fires up when you insert your CF card (job codes as well if you are shooting for a client and have a reference system).

This means a Photoshop search can then return all the images from that shoot even if it spans two months.

Works for me. :)

I would say that keeping control of your file naming and captioning is probably one of the more boring aspects of digital photography. But if you do it without fail, you can quickly recall images from hard disk.

Just this week I had someone call me to ask if I had some shots taken of a car at the Autosport Show in 2003. While I was on the phone I had already found them and had converted them to JPEGs. The email left my computer before I had even hung up the phone.

Cheers

Ian

[Citizensmith]

I just make my own folders, Year/Month/Day - Topic and drag the photos of the camera into it. I have to main folders, family and work, and this tree grows under both of them. Whenever I edit one I make a copy and append tags to the name to reflect what was done. Such as reduce the image size, format for a certain type of printing, run noise reduction.

Very simple, quick and easy. I find files using Picassa which is also great to use.

[Citizensmith]

As for the numbering system, CF cards (most NV RAM media for that matter) work on FAT, which is limited to the 8.3 naming convention.

Since when. Sure the cameras may be limited to writing in 8.3 but the cards certainly are not limited to that. I often end up using them to transfer files from one location to another and these files rarely comply with the old 8.3 thing.

[Jesper]

I did though about this method before but I later decided to keep the actual filename simple to 8 characters. The Rebel runs on DOS and is limited by that. I can always rename afterwards but I figure for me, I should not go over 9999 photos in a single month.....The Rebel runs on DOS ?!? :rolleyes: :lol: What do you mean by that, do you think the Digital Rebel runs on MS-DOS ?!? :lol:

[S230]

....The Rebel runs on DOS ?!? :rolleyes: :lol: What do you mean by that, do you think the Digital Rebel runs on MS-DOS ?!? :lol:
The base OS is DOS.. yup.. old but darn reliable...

[karusel]

I cannot recall DOS ever crashing, and I started with a 3. something version if I'm not mistaken. I still like to visit the good old command prompt, if for nothing else, to ping or tracert a server... ahh, good old days, when things used to be black and white, now they're blue sometimes, and when I say blue I mean blue screen of death. :)

[KennyG]

Dowloader Pro, my life would be hell without it shooting 1,500 images a session over two cameras.

[S230]

I cannot recall DOS ever crashing, and I started with a 3. something version if I'm not mistaken. I still like to visit the good old command prompt, if for nothing else, to ping or tracert a server... ahh, good old days, when things used to be black and white, now they're blue sometimes, and when I say blue I mean blue screen of death. :)The basic operating system is ROM-DOS by Datalight and implemented on Canon in 1998. Not sure what OS was used prior but is a proven technology that practically never crash.

http://www.datalight.com/product_detail.asp?p_id=9&archive=0

If you were to boot into the camera, you will see A: and B: drive. The actual boot file is "camera.exe"


http://www.dpreview.com/news/9902/99022402canonromdos.asp

[Rob612]

For batch renaming try this:

http://www.bulkrenameutility.co.uk/Main_Intro.php

I love it.

[S230]

For batch renaming try this:

http://www.bulkrenameutility.co.uk/Main_Intro.php

I love it.
I vote for this one too... It is a great program if you plan on adding more than 8 characters to a group of filenames. I personally have been using this tool for a while also and the author or the program is pretty efficient at responding to my emails.

[iof]

Another vote for Downloader Pro by Breeze. And, they have a 30 day free trial.

http://www.breezesys.com/downloads.htm

[RobbTC]

Try my free utility that I wrote for my use and have shared with others. It will put files in separate folders by camera model and can prepend photographer's initials to file names.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43292

Nice lil' program OviV...

Zoombrowser/Camera Window used to work with 10D and allow for folders to be created based on date photos were shot. I used that feature all the time.

Does anyone know why Canon decided to not allow the ZB/CW software to work with the 20D?

Thanks,
Robb
http://www.robbware.com (http://www.robbware.com/)

[geoffh]

Thanks to all who managed to reply to the question with sensible and even insane suggestions and sorry for the long delay in replying (I was not looking in the right place!!!) I don't think an in-camera solution is possible unless Canon changes something but I'll try as many of the above as I can.

[condyk]

digital prophet: Wow, so.. you're off your pills for over a year? :lol:



Wow ... :lol: :lol: Rain Man wasn't just a film then?

[hmhecht]

Nice lil' program OviV...

Zoombrowser/Camera Window used to work with 10D and allow for folders to be created based on date photos were shot. I used that feature all the time.

Does anyone know why Canon decided to not allow the ZB/CW software to work with the 20D?

Thanks,
Robb
http://www.robbware.com (http://www.robbware.com/)
Hi Robb -- I have a 10D and just got myself a 5D. I used to LOVE that ZB would automatically rename my photos to be <foldernumber>_<imagenumber>.jpg (or raw etc.) That was INVALUABLE to me in ensuring I never have duplicate filenames. And I have about 100,000+ photos from my 10D so I would easily have multiple (~10+) duplicate filenames.

You can force this to happen in the new EOS UTILITY software that came with ZB 5.6 -- HOWEVER you have to create it manually via the CUSTOMIZE button AND it doesn't automatically keep track of the filenames -- it wants a sequence number from which to start. My issue is that EOS Utility only works with the camera directly, and does not work with any CF Cards and Card Readers. So what did Canon do for us? They provided a new piece of software called CameraWindow... EXCEPT they LEFT OUT the functionality that allows you to have filenames created with the in-camera 3-digit folder name as the prefix. Sure... just connect the camera and use EOS Utility, right? Nope -- not a viable solution.

OK so why is this a problem for me? Because EOS Utility took nearly 75 minutes to transfer 1.5GB from a high speed CF card via a high speed USB 2.0 port via my 5D which is also USB 2.0 high speed (or so they claim). This would have taken 2-3 minutes via a CF card reader transfer instead. (Think about it -- at a typical event or series of events I will shoot 10-15GB of RAW and JPG photos. If it took over an hour to transfer 1.5gb of photos, and nearly drained the camera battery, it will take 10+ hours to transfer 15gb of photos. NOT VIABLE.

All I need is for the software to download the images and name them <in-camera-folder-name>_<image_number>.jpg. WHY is that so difficult!?!?!?

When I got my 5D I installed all of the new software and now want to wring the necks of the product managers at Canon that allowed their developers to TAKE AWAY functionality that was CRITICAL to photographers and our workflow. I can't answer why they made ZB/CW not work with the 20D (and 30D and 5D) but I would like to both ASK and ANSWER another question: Why did Canon TAKE AWAY functionality that was so critical to my workflow? The only answer I can think of is that at Canon they DO NOT UNDERSTAND the workflow that their photograpers employ. (either that or you and I are both nuts.)

I am FURIOUS at Canon about this. I have spoken to their support people at least 5 times spanning at least 10 hours wasted with them. They just plain don't get it, and it pisses me off to no end. What they don't seem to hear is: I went from a $1500 camera to a $3200 camera and you took away functionality that has increased my workflow TEN-FOLD or more instead of maintaining it, or heaven forbid, making things easier.

(I am a software product manager myself and would be taken out back and shot if I ever pulled a stunt like this without fully understanding my market, their workflow, and how my actions impact all of the above.)

SO... can anyone tell me how to use a CF Reader and accomplish what I want, which is <cf_folder_number>_<Image_Number>.jpg? i.e. 589_3023.jpg

Thanks - and thanks for listening to me rant a bit...

[Jon]

Downloader or Downloader Pro from Breeze Systems will allow you to do this. My files all d/l in format <folder-no.>-<file-no>_<cam. model>.type to folder <folder-no>C_<cam-model> and with my name in the IPTC copyright field via Downloader Pro. It also prompts me for additional IPTC info at the time of download. The problem is remembering to change it all!