Concert Photographers Against the 'Three-Song Rule'

[theshowlastnight]

Shame on beer. Beer is bad. bw!

The best thing you can do with concert shooting is to use two or three zoom lenses. Multiple bodies even better. Every thread you read on here for concerts come to that same conclusion.

If you have to use primes stick with one and shoot on the largest resolution and quality you have available and then crop the image in final process. I've tried the prime usage way back in the beginning(30 years ago) and quickly learned that zooms are the best in that situation ... especially in the 3-song limitation. Primes are for when you have unlimited access and time. The best two lenses for concerts, especially in the pit, are 24-70mm(or 24-105mm) and 70-200mm. The faster the better.

The reason they make photogs leave ... you're there on a free pass. You're entitled to shoot three songs for professional purpose or assignment. You're not guaranteed to see a free full length concert on that pass or privilege. Most likely if you had bought a ticket you could have gone to your seat and enjoyed the show, but don't even think about pulling your camera out back there ... that's a one way trip to the parking lot with no refund.

The key thing to remember is the three song access is a privilege, not a right. You're a guest of the band under that set of rules. Now if you know the band it can be a whole different story and set of rules.

ROCK ON, Bro!


Ya, slowly I do plan on upgrading. Hopefully I can jump straight to a 70-200 2.8 one of these days. I don't forsee owning another body any time in the near future - not making enough money to be able to invest $1,300+ for another toy.

Aww well, soon enough.

[90c4]

That's inconsiderate, but you should have tapped her on the shoulder and asked for a turn. I always offer my spot once I've gotten my shot, but I wouldn't be offended if someone asked for my spot. I don't have to do it too often, but I've been known to tap on shoulders a few times a year.


There was a girl at the Old 97's/Langhorne Slim concert I was at last week that set up shop right dead center on the stage and didn't move until the entire concert was over.

Shooting her 75-300 4.5-5.6 for a full two hours. UGH.

[mdflowe]

That's inconsiderate, but you should have tapped her on the shoulder and asked for a turn. I always offer my spot once I've gotten my shot, but I wouldn't be offended if someone asked for my spot. I don't have to do it too often, but I've been known to tap on shoulders a few times a year.

We have that on occasion here too. One example is Ted Nugent. He travels with a husband-wife team of photographers. The are actually a very nice couple so I'm not trash talking about them. The wife mans her post downstage while the husband mans his post in the pit center and brings a folding chair. They shoot the entire show, every show.

Then each night a selection of the shots go up on his website for fans to see. The only thing wrong here is Ted seems to wear the exact same thing every night and plays the same guitar every night. Thus all the shots look the same throughout the week or month they are up.

[bbgeekchic]

mdflowe,
I know what your talking about. I'm a big Ted Nugent fan, yet I've seen what your talking about. It IS always the same (virtually) so every concert photo looks so similar to the next its crazy.

[SaltCityRed]

I do have problems with light technicians that only start proper lighting at song 4 ;)


I wonder what is meant by proper lighting...
Does that mean they are failing to light the show in the first 3 songs?

[narlus]

so it's been a while, but last night i was at a show w/ 'that guy.'


The Reigning Sound (excellent rock/soul/garage band from Asheville via Memphis) played a pretty informal show at a space that is in a large complex of rehearsal spaces...first time i've been there, and it was pretty cool. max capacity of ~200 or so, and the room was jammed. the guy i am referring to stood front/center the entire time, taking flash shots of leader Greg Cartwright for pretty much the entire 75 min set...at least he had his flash on low power, but i was truly expecting in between songs, Cartwright asking him if he'd gotten enough shots. they were all from the same vantage point, and sometimes he'd just stick his arms out and get the camera around 2' away. and after each shot he'd instantly bring the camera up close and chimp.

holy god was that annoying. i was about ready to ask him to cut the sh*.t

[mdflowe]

snipped ...

holy god was that annoying. i was about ready to ask him to cut the sh*.t

I feel for you brother! I've got a long one for you here. Bear with it as it is funny in a way. In the end I will be more than happy to trade you my guy for yours. :confused:

One of my regular haunts when I stay in town (meaning no big show out of town that weekend!) is a nice little live music club that holds a few hundred folks. I help run the stage for the owner when I'm around as I know most everyone passing through. We got some really good touring acts that are openers for many popular bands.

We've got this one guy, we'll call him Ronny, that comes in every once in a blue moon. He's super nice so don't get me wrong on that part. His regular haunt is a small club about an hour and a half away from here in his hometown that holds about 100, no raised stage, just a guardrail built on the end of the dance floor. That place is popular for Texas Red Dirt music.

Ronny has developed a good friendship with many of those types of bands because he offers custom screen printing for band t-shirts at a great price. He does make some very nice shirts for these low-budgeted bands. He also fancies himself a photographer. His stuff is borderline quality simply for the limitations placed on him by his equipment and the poor lighting of his club.

Now on occasion we book the same bands from that club. There are a couple he drives here to see. Like I said, he's a nice guy, incredibly nice. He travels with a posse of fans from that other club to here as well. Let's just say the posse is not your normal "Average Joe" ... they're a heavy metal, goth in appearance, dressed crowd. (Nothing wrong with that!) They are on the average about 6' tall and can weigh in anywhere from 200-400lbs. Their hair, if not shaved bald, is long and straight down the back to their belts.

The club is filled with standard level four person seated tables. The stage is probably elevated about 3' allowing some really good visibility throughout the club, except for some of those tables in the front rows if the fans stand and park in front of the stage. It's only about 2-3' wide down the whole front. Very tough to move about at times from one side of the stage to the other once the parking lot begins.

Now when Ronny shows up to shoot he doesn't stand back out in the wings. He gets right up there in the parking lot and constantly moves back and forth shooting with a short range zoom of some kind, 35-70-ish range. To help assist his camera in focusing he's planted a 480 knockoff on the body. He keeps the head aimed all over kingdom come as he's not using the flash for illumination. Much of the time it swiveled around and aimed back at the crowd! Imagine having that thing pop off full blast in your face all night!?!

To top it off he likes to partake of the brew ... a lot of brew! So now we have a somewhat stumbly photog moving side to side popping a flash every ten seconds or so. In between the shots he is chimpimg every single shot. Here's the kicker ... while he is shooting and chimping he likes to do the metal maniac head bob the whole time. He's one of the guys in his posse with the three feet of hair down his back mentioned earlier. The music isn't even anywhere close to metal!! In this case the music is Jimi Hendrix and Stevie Ray Vaughn flavored ... very mellow and bluesy. Thank god he's short.

So now we have a 5' 7" drunk guy with really long hair pumping his fist in the air, head bobbing, and sticking a camera about a foot or two from the performers faces while popping a flash in who knows what direction, then while still head bobbing he's chimping every photo. It's a performance all its own! And this goes on for a solid two hours or more. If the band is on stage he is shooting non-stop. And if its time for a restroom break or another brew ... he's hands the camera over to one of his posse members and points them to the stage. In most cases the friend has been this 6' bald gent that weighs in at about 400lbs. Tall and wide now performing the same exact shooting ritual until Ronny comes back to relieve him.

We have people leaving the show now that can't stand the constant hair lashings they are getting for choosing the good seats in front. I imagine it just gets irritating having this guy moving back and forth in front of you all night. So the folks just tend to leave.

I've tried to encourage him to tone it down. He's good for about a minute or two. At least until the next song and then it starts all over again. Like I said it just get worse through the remainder of the evening. Now, I've had security talk to him and it works for a bit. Then he starts back up and the security guy will talk with him again. What makes it hard at this point is usually the performer steps in and says, "he's okay, I don't mind, leave him be." OH, CRIMINY! There just went our leverage. Now the guy is right back to business as usual.

I can understand the performer pacifying him a bit in this situation, remember he is their merch wholesaler giving them great prices on their low budget. But, come on. This is more than ridiculous. Just how many shots does Ronny really need to shoot?? I've only seen him post about twenty of them on the average when he's gone non-stop for 2-3 hours.

Now, in this case, I love shooting this performer as well. He's got great character and is an incredible guitar player. But, when Ronny shows up as well, I just tend to lose any and all interest in shooting that night. Part of the hassle is he wants to talk shop, an Amateur to a Pro, and not so much for tips or hints ... he keeps running over to me and wants to show off his chimping skills over and over again. So with this I can't concentrate on my own gig being constantly distracted. Very annoying to me. I do the cold shoulder somewhat and tend to kind of ignore him as "I am busy" right now.

This happens with about three or four really good bands that pass through here that he does business with. So when I am doing stage load-ins and sound checks I am just hoping he's not going to show up. Sometimes he doesn't but more times he does.

This is one example where the three song rule is good! I'm seriously thinking about developing such a policy for the club. Make a sign that we can hang to point at in such situations.

I've attached a shot to give you an view of the stage and front row. The guy in the back right with the blue tie on is about 5' 9" to give you an idea of the working space.

Hope this one wasn't to long for you ... the short version just doesn't exist. ;)

ROCK ON!
:cool:

513931

[doreian]

lots of fun in this thread!
My two cents is that the 3 songs provides a challenge. Yes, the lighting and the energy is not always there, but the restrictions are a good test. Also, when there is the whole concert to shoot I never feel satisfied and can't stop to ever enjoy the music. Sure I am there as a photog, but there's a place to enjoy the music too.

[90c4]

If it was too easy, everyone would do it. But most shows that have 3 song limits are in places big enough to have real lighting. Or maybe I've just gotten lucky with the kind of bands that I typically shoot. I agree that having too much time is tough too. I'd much rather come home with 100 shots to go through than 500. BTW, we've probably bumped shoulders - I'm in Boston too. I met someone from Melophobe at a Garden show, I think Jay-Z perhaps.

lots of fun in this thread!
My two cents is that the 3 songs provides a challenge.

[DerekMartinezPhotography]

The 3 song rule can be tough when the lighting designer doesn't give you much to work with; however, getting to enjoy the rest of the show and having less images to edit is always nice.

[doreian]

If it was too easy, everyone would do it. But most shows that have 3 song limits are in places big enough to have real lighting. Or maybe I've just gotten lucky with the kind of bands that I typically shoot. I agree that having too much time is tough too. I'd much rather come home with 100 shots to go through than 500. BTW, we've probably bumped shoulders - I'm in Boston too. I met someone from Melophobe at a Garden show, I think Jay-Z perhaps.
hey RIch! I wish that was me @ Jay Z, maybe Gaga or Black Eyed Peas? My wife was at Low Anthem with you on Friday, and she's been working through the photos all morning!

Oh, back to the topic of 3 songs...
Derek is so right about less images to edit! This also means if the music is good, enjoy! If the music is bad, get home early. Sometimes nice to not be out all hours for shows. Sometimes.

[90c4]

Must have been the Peas. I didn't actually shoot the Low Anthem - they got delayed at the border and missed their soundcheck and I had to get over to the Orpheum. Really a shame as the sun coming through the church windows would have made for nice photos.

hey RIch! I wish that was me @ Jay Z, maybe Gaga or Black Eyed Peas? My wife was at Low Anthem with you on Friday, and she's been working through the photos all morning!

Oh, back to the topic of 3 songs...
Derek is so right about less images to edit! This also means if the music is good, enjoy! If the music is bad, get home early. Sometimes nice to not be out all hours for shows. Sometimes.

[doreian]

anyone have thoughts on the first lens you have lined up when there is a 3 song limit?

Hate that "should have used the 1.8" feeling when I started shooting w/ 2.5

[narlus]

easy...24-70 on one body, 70-200 on the other.

i always have at least one prime w/ me, as well as a 16-35, if i need them.

[pixbylorne]

Three song would have been great, had the OK from the publicist to shoot Melissa Etheridge and the management at the venue demanded one shot only! All the while the audience was shooting away with camera, cell phone and even recording audio!

[doreian]

easy...24-70 on one body, 70-200 on the other.

i always have at least one prime w/ me, as well as a 16-35, if i need them.

what happens for Great Scott or Middle East upstairs? Anything over 1.8 hasn't worked for me very well.

[90c4]

I think that's a new record. I've been given 3 minutes which I thought was tough.

Three song would have been great, had the OK from the publicist to shoot Melissa Etheridge and the management at the venue demanded one shot only! All the while the audience was shooting away with camera, cell phone and even recording audio!

[90c4]

ISO 6400. Most bands that I shoot with a 3 song rule typically play larger clubs and have better lights. I don't think I've ever had a song restriction at either of those clubs.

what happens for Great Scott or Middle East upstairs? Anything over 1.8 hasn't worked for me very well.

[narlus]

what happens for Great Scott or Middle East upstairs? Anything over 1.8 hasn't worked for me very well.

ME up generally has enough (orange-tinted) light to use a zoom, but they have also started to use LED lights which suck...but i like to use the 35/50/85 combo for that room. same w/ Great Scott; it's generally got a bit better light, and the 16-35L is nice for wider shots w/ more than one person in 'em.

[doreian]

ME up generally has enough (orange-tinted) light to use a zoom, but they have also started to use LED lights which suck...but i like to use the 35/50/85 combo for that room. same w/ Great Scott; it's generally got a bit better light, and the 16-35L is nice for wider shots w/ more than one person in 'em.

that 16-35 is amazing for downstairs, shooting from the side ramp always gets great crowd/band interaction. One of the few places where this happens for every show.

[blackshadow]

One of the best three songs I had was Jane's Addiction at the Soundwave Festival last year - the third song was Three Days and it went for at least 10 minutes!

[BJWOK]

richard, i second that!!

in adelaide we got four songs to be exact:

up the beach
mountain song
had a dad
three days

i was seriously in tears at how amazing it was!!