Step-up ring confusion

[JHodzic]

I'm a bit of a beginner in terms of filters, so forgive me if this question is rather stupid :).
I am purchasing a 10-22mm EF-S and 50mm f/1.4 lens for my 40D soon. I already own a 17-85mm f/4-5.6 and 70-200mm f/4.

I wanted to get a CPL, ND, and perhaps grad ND for the 10-22mm, (filter size 77mm) and then get step up rings for the 50mm (58mm filter size) and the other two lenses (both 67mm.) When looking at step up rings/filters, I had a few questions.

1. When you buy a step up filter, is it "read" from lens size (of the smaller lens) - filter size (of the larger lens?) Or is it filter size - filter size. For example, when looking for a step up ring for my 50mm, would it be a 50mm - 77mm step up ring? I'm pretty sure that is wrong but I'm not sure 58mm-77mm is right either ..
2. Is the (slim) CP worth it for the 10-22mm despite how wide the lens is? Will vignetting be an issue in the ND filter as well?
3. Why are the brand name step-up rings SO much more expensive than general ones? The job seems very straightforward to me, is there really that much room for improvement?

[wickerprints]

Step-up rings always go from filter size to filter size. Focal length has nothing to do with it. So if your 50/1.4 has a front filter diameter of 58mm but you have a 77mm filter, you need the 58-to-77 step-up ring.

[NYPhotog]

Step-up rings are designated from lens thread diameter to filter diameter. In other words, if you wish to use a 77mm filter on a lens with a 67mm thread you would need a 67mm-77mm step-up ring.

I only shoot FF bodies and have not used the 10-22, so I am not sure at what point you will see vignetting when using a CPL on a crop body with that lens. A slim CPL will certainly help, but be aware that the B+W slim CPL filters do not have front threads, so I would choose a Hoya HD (which is as slim and has front threads). Vignetting will not be an issue with your longer lenses. ND filters will vignette less because they are thinner (unless you stack filters, of course).

Do not buy screw-in GND filters, as they are next to worthless. When using a GND filter you need to first frame your shot (say with the horizon 1/3 from the top of the frame) and then place the transition line of the filter at the same point. You can't do that with a round, screw-in GND filter, as the transition line is always dead center of the frame. You will instead need to purchase 4x5" or 4x6" resin GND filters, either Lee, HiTech or Singh-Ray and a holder system (if you decide not to hand-hold).

I use B+W step-up rings because they are machined better than the generic brands and will not as easily bind to either the lens or the filter. They are really not that expensive and are a one-time purchase.

[klr.b]

you may have a hard time finding a 58mm-77mm step-up ring. the name brand ones are expensive or hard to find. most likely, unless you're willing to go generic, you'll have to get a 58mm-67mm step-up ring and then a 67mm-77mm step-up ring.

[ralff]

The 58-77's are stocked pretty much everywhere I have been looking, even have some on E-Bay, not uncommon at all. Agree that it is worth it to buy a good one though, have seen peolpe trying to wrench off a cheap step up (and filters for that matter) when the "cheap" threads bind up.

[argyle]

You generally will not need a slim polarizer on the 10-22. I say "generally" since this really applies to the B+W F-Pro polarizer (I used this filter on my 10-22 and now on my 17-40L on FF and didn't get any vignetting). Others have posted the same results on this forum in many threads (you just need to search them out). Also, since you'll be stepping up other lenses to use this filter, I doubt that you'll get any vignetting in these cases either due to the longer focal lengths. I'd say that a slim is not necessary...

[ToyTrains]

Also remember that by using a larger filter on a smaller thread lens your lens hood may not slip over the larger filter. You would have to put on the hood first and remove the step-up ring to remove the hood. I decided it wasn't worth the trouble and bought separate filters (I actually had to return the step-up ring).

[JHodzic]

Thanks for all the responses!
To NYPhoto G, this may also sound dumb but why is it important to have a front thread on the filter?

[ed rader]

I'm a bit of a beginner in terms of filters, so forgive me if this question is rather stupid :).
I am purchasing a 10-22mm EF-S and 50mm f/1.4 lens for my 40D soon. I already own a 17-85mm f/4-5.6 and 70-200mm f/4.

I wanted to get a CPL, ND, and perhaps grad ND for the 10-22mm, (filter size 77mm) and then get step up rings for the 50mm (58mm filter size) and the other two lenses (both 67mm.) When looking at step up rings/filters, I had a few questions.

1. When you buy a step up filter, is it "read" from lens size (of the smaller lens) - filter size (of the larger lens?) Or is it filter size - filter size. For example, when looking for a step up ring for my 50mm, would it be a 50mm - 77mm step up ring? I'm pretty sure that is wrong but I'm not sure 58mm-77mm is right either ..
2. Is the (slim) CP worth it for the 10-22mm despite how wide the lens is? Will vignetting be an issue in the ND filter as well?
3. Why are the brand name step-up rings SO much more expensive than general ones? The job seems very straightforward to me, is there really that much room for improvement?


some people believe that if you spend more money you get better performance even if there is no real evidence supporting that belief.

filters are a good example.

$100 filter = good

$30 = bad

even when tests show there is no difference in performance or in fact the $30 filters performs better.

i buy the cheapest metal step-up rings i can find. they're probably all made in the same factory anyway. lube the threads if you think they will be a problem, tho i don't bother.

another suggestion is if you use CPLS on say three different lens sizes you could buy two CPLs in different sizes so you have two lenses set up at a time when you're in the field....this makes life easier for me.

of course if you are convinced that you need to spend $200 for a decent CPL instead of $50 this suggestion might not sound too attractive to you :D.

ed rader

[NYPhotog]

some people believe that if you spend more money you get better performance even if there is no real evidence supporting that belief.

filters are a good example.

$100 filter = good

$30 = bad

even when tests show there is no difference in performance or in fact the $30 filters performs better.

i buy the cheapest metal step-up rings i can find. they're probably all made in the same factory anyway. lube the threads if you think they will be a problem, tho i don't bother.

of course if you are convinced that you need to spend $200 for a decent CPL instead of $50 this suggestion might not sound too attractive to you :D.

ed rader

Sorry, but I have been shooting for 35 years and DO see a difference in the quality of filters (and step-up rings, for that matter). Here is a recent CPL filter test that you might have missed http://www.lenstip.com/115.1-article-Polarizing_filters_test.html Do you still believe there is no difference between filters? BTW, the test did not include the best Hoya, the "HD", nor the new B+W series, the XS-Pro (which I will be trying as soon as the CPL is released). With filters, you usually do get what you paid for, and I will not put a cheap filter on expensive "L" glass.

[NYPhotog]

Thanks for all the responses!
To NYPhoto G, this may also sound dumb but why is it important to have a front thread on the filter?

For mounting additional filters, screw on shades or lens caps. The B+W slim, for example, comes with a push-on lens cap, which always comes off or gets lost.

[ed rader]

Sorry, but I have been shooting for 35 years and DO see a difference in the quality of filters (and step-up rings, for that matter). Here is a recent CPL filter test that you might have missed http://www.lenstip.com/115.1-article-Polarizing_filters_test.html Do you still believe there is no difference between filters? BTW, the test did not include the best Hoya, the "HD", nor the new B+W series, the XS-Pro (which I will be trying as soon as the CPL is released). With filters, you usually do get what you paid for, and I will not put a cheap filter on expensive "L" glass.


the first filter was disqualified. heliopan, which always gets recommended here, scored horribly and the hoyas and kenkos placed near the top.

and for UV filters the kenkos and hoyas also score very well.

as far as step up rings go i won't pay $20 when a $5 step-up works fine for me. if you use step ups alot you probably should buy the filters you need.

ed rader

[NYPhotog]

The first B+W was disqualified because a linear polarizer was delivered, instead of a CPL. Otherwise, the B+W filters generally scored the highest. The results of the Heliopan filters generally are in line with my experience with this brand - they are overpriced, over-hyped and under-performing. BTW, I have used an 82mm Marumi DHG Super CPL and find it to be an excellent filter and a less expensive alternative. The problem with Hoya has always been the coatings, but the new HD is excellent in this regard and a great filter - the best Hoya I have ever used. I have used a Kenko CPL and did not care for the build quality. I have used cheap generic rings and prefer the slightly more expensive B+W, as they will not bind. I do not generally use rings that much anymore, preferring instead to use lens-specific CPL filters.

[ed rader]

The first B+W was disqualified because a linear polarizer was delivered, instead of a CPL. Otherwise, the B+W filters generally scored the highest. The results of the Heliopan filters generally are in line with my experience with this brand - they are overpriced, over-hyped and under-performing. BTW, I have used an 82mm Marumi DHG Super CPL and find it to be an excellent filter and a less expensive alternative. The problem with Hoya has always been the coatings, but the new HD is excellent in this regard and a great filter - the best Hoya I have ever used. I have used a Kenko CPL and did not care for the build quality. I have used cheap generic rings and prefer the slightly more expensive B+W, as they will not bind. I do not generally use rings that much anymore, preferring instead to use lens-specific CPL filters.


my original post was actually about UV filters ($30), where hoya takes three out of the first four positions. i own one CPL now, and it's a B+W.

ed rader

[JHodzic]

NYPhotog- I feel like an idiot for asking that front thread question, :P I've seen that crappy B+W slide on cap that they give with the slim filters-quite annoying.
The Hoya HD would definitely be nice, but it is our of my price range. The most money I can spend is around 150-180 bucks.

Argyle, I looked up the B+W F-Pro Polarizer, and I've found some people do complain about vignetting. I'm the kind of person who actually thinks vignetting can be aesthetically pleasing. So, if it's not too harsh, I'll probably take your advice. However, like you said, I also found people who say you don't need a slim filter. Now I'm wondering why this is...I know on a crop body the equivalent of the 10-22mm is 16-35mm, or in other words, the lens is an ultra-wide angle lens. Shouldn't it have a problem with vignetting?

[JHodzic]

Ok I've been looking at filters, and am quite confused about the differences between a few of them.

The B+W F Pro series are simply any B+W Polarizers that aren't thin/wide angle, am I correct?

Also, I can't find a difference between these two HD Hoya CPL

http://maxsaver.net/HOYA-77mm-HD-Circular-Polarizing-Digital-Filter.aspx

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/574287-REG/Hoya_XHD77CRPL_77mm_Circular_Polarizing_HD.html

Thanks for all the help!

[NYPhotog]

Ok I've been looking at filters, and am quite confused about the differences between a few of them.

The B+W F Pro series are simply any B+W Polarizers that aren't thin/wide angle, am I correct?

Also, I can't find a difference between these two HD Hoya CPL

http://maxsaver.net/HOYA-77mm-HD-Circular-Polarizing-Digital-Filter.aspx

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/574287-REG/Hoya_XHD77CRPL_77mm_Circular_Polarizing_HD.html

Thanks for all the help!

There are other filters with the F-Pro mount, including UV.

The two Hoya HD CPL filters are identical, except, of course for the price. The Hoya HD was much cheaper in the U.S. until recently, when all U.S. dealers were forced to sign vertical marketing agreements with the distributer, essentially raising and fixing the price. They are super filters, however, and that is a good price from Maxsaver.