Graduated ND Filter help

[darksike]

I've looked around and it seems that the square is better than the screw in filter. typing 67mm graduated nd filter (for my tamron 17-50) from amazon and this came out
http://www.amazon.com/B-W-Color-Graduated-Filter/dp/B0000BZL87/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1249220244&sr=8-2

how can you attach this to your lens? sorry for the noob question.
also looking for something in the $50-$70 range and not http://www.amazon.com/Horseman-Graduated-Neutral-Density-Center/dp/B001B6HP1E/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1249220244&sr=8-4 (my fiance almost had a heart attack when she saw this)

thank you in advance

[Jon]

First, it's 67 mm, which is a standard screw-in size and second it's from B+W, who make round filters primarily. Square/rectangular filters are 3.5" or 4" (84 or 100 mm) wide; lengths may vary. And they go into a slotted holder which attaches to your lens. The Horseman is intended for a specific lens on a 4x5" view camera, not for your purposes.

Look for rectangular grads from Lee, Singh-Ray or HiTech. Cokin and Lee make holders for both sizes - Cokin's are "P" and "Z"; I don't recall what Lee's are called. Cokin makes grads but they aren't colour-neutral; you'll likely find a colour cast over the part of the picture the grad was on.

[darksike]

so kinda like this?
http://www.amazon.com/Lee-9-Graduated-Neutral-Density/dp/B00009R7X7/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249223079&sr=8-1

but how do you attach it to your lens? I mean , does the holder screw into your lens and the linked above drop into it? looking at the "customers who bought this also bought this" I can't see the holder

[Jon]

Filter goes in this (http://www.adorama.com/CKBPPW.html?searchinfo=Cokin+Slim+P+Holder) and you'd screw this (http://www.adorama.com/CK67P.html) onto your lens and attach the holder to that.

[darksike]

cool. thank you so much. just added it to cart

[MDJAK]

Hey, Jon, if one is going to use a 2 stop soft Grad ND, such as I just bought to tone down the sky and hopefully not blow it out, how do you meter for that? Before putting the filter on, after? When I slide it on the holder and slowly push it down, I don't really see much effect in the viewfinder as far as light to dark is concerned.

Thanks,
me

[Jon]

After. And you need to stop down to shooting aperture to see the effect.

[LostShootingStar]

Hey, Jon, if one is going to use a 2 stop soft Grad ND, such as I just bought to tone down the sky and hopefully not blow it out, how do you meter for that? Before putting the filter on, after? When I slide it on the holder and slowly push it down, I don't really see much effect in the viewfinder as far as light to dark is concerned.

Thanks,
me

Yeah, definitely after. http://entertainment-place.info/smile/img/4234/o09a0208gstn/POTNsmile.gifhttp://www.entertainment-place.info/smile/img/3200/n08d1214eybr/1by1.gif

[NYPhotog]

Wrong. You meter the scene BEFORE choosing which GND filter to use. First meter the darker area (i.e. the foreground), using the intended aperture and note the meter reading (shutter speed) to obtain the proper tone. Then meter the highlight, bright area (i.e. the sky) and again adjust the shutter speed to obtain the proper tone that you want for that area. Note the difference in stops for the two readings; that will be the the strength of the GND to use. After determining which filter to use return the shutter speed to the setting for the foreground, position the GND filter in front of the lens and take the picture.

[argyle]

Wrong. You meter the scene BEFORE choosing which GND filter to use. First meter the darker area (i.e. the foreground), using the intended aperture and note the meter reading (shutter speed) to obtain the proper tone. Then meter the highlight, bright area (i.e. the sky) and again adjust the shutter speed to obtain the proper tone that you want for that area. Note the difference in stops for the two readings; that will be the the strength of the GND to use. After determining which filter to use return the shutter speed to the setting for the foreground, position the GND filter in front of the lens and take the picture.

+1, but with a twist. After determining the exposure difference between foreground and sky, select a filter strength that is one stop less than the difference. For example, if the exposure difference is three stops, select a 2-stop filter. The reason being is that the sky is always brighter than the foreground...using a filter that is one stop less than the difference will ensure a more natural looking image. Balancing the foreground and sky equally will result in a "clinical" and unnatural look. Just an opinion garnered after 35 years of shooting. ;)

[NYPhotog]

+1, but with a twist. After determining the exposure difference between foreground and sky, select a filter strength that is one stop less than the difference. For example, if the exposure difference is three stops, select a 2-stop filter. The reason being is that the sky is always brighter than the foreground...using a filter that is one stop less than the difference will ensure a more natural looking image. Balancing the foreground and sky equally will result in a "clinical" and unnatural look. Just an opinion garnered after 35 years of shooting. ;)

I never said to use the metered difference, per say. I said, "adjust the shutter speed to obtain the proper tone that you want for that area. Note the difference in stops for the two readings; that will be the the strength of the of the GND to use". The proper tone for that area might be one stop less than the difference (as you have suggested), or some other value.

[Alan's 20D]

Jon --

Thanks for something that you brought up in your reply. I have been using the cokin Graduated ND's and have noticed the color shifts. The more time you add the more the color shift. This is a classic case of you get what you pay for. Better to pay more the first time then go back in and buy the second unit.

[packham]

So you meter at the brightest part of the sky that you still want details. Adjust so that the meter is at +2 (or less depends on taste). Then you meter for the midtone in the foreground. Adjust so that the meter is at 0. Note the difference in stops. That will be the strength of the GND to be used. And use the last exposure settings (the one for midtone at 0). Am I understanding correctly? Please advice.

[argyle]

I never said to use the metered difference, per say. I said, "adjust the shutter speed to obtain the proper tone that you want for that area. Note the difference in stops for the two readings; that will be the the strength of the of the GND to use". The proper tone for that area might be one stop less than the difference (as you have suggested), or some other value.

Exactly, which is why I suggested using a filter that is one stop less than the actual exposure difference in order to maintain a more natural look. Your explanation on how to properly meter the scene was spot-on...I'm only suggesting that folks using GND's for the first time give consideration to not achieving a, per se, "perfect" balance between foreground and sky. YMMV.

[NYPhotog]

So you meter at the brightest part of the sky that you still want details. Adjust so that the meter is at +2 (or less depends on taste). Then you meter for the midtone in the foreground. Adjust so that the meter is at 0. Note the difference in stops. That will be the strength of the GND to be used. And use the last exposure settings (the one for midtone at 0). Am I understanding correctly? Please advice.

Not exactly. Basically, take a reading of the bright area and a reading of the dark area. That will give you the absolute difference in stops between the two. Say the difference is 3-stops. If you were to choose a 3-stop GND, the two tones would be equal (and unnatural), so you would choose perhaps a 2-stop GND instead so the light tone would still appear lighter. Before taking the shot, you would set the meter for the reading that you obtained originally for the dark tone.

[NYPhotog]

Exactly, which is why I suggested using a filter that is one stop less than the actual exposure difference in order to maintain a more natural look. Your explanation on how to properly meter the scene was spot-on...I'm only suggesting that folks using GND's for the first time give consideration to not achieving a, per se, "perfect" balance between foreground and sky. YMMV.

i believe I said the same thing, in a different way.;)

[rklepper]

You know there have been a great number of questions about these filters lately, from myself included. It would be nice if someone who is good at using them were to put together a tutorial. It seems that it is greatly needed.

[jdizzle]

You know there have been a great number of questions about these filters lately, from myself included. It would be nice if someone who is good at using them were to put together a tutorial. It seems that it is greatly needed.
There is a tutorial on this forum and it used to be a sticky. Rammy put up a tutorial with pics and everything.

[jdizzle]

Here it is! :)

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=315987

[argyle]

You know there have been a great number of questions about these filters lately, from myself included. It would be nice if someone who is good at using them were to put together a tutorial. It seems that it is greatly needed.

There's plenty of info available...all that's needed is a search. Some of these threads are making out the use of these filters to be much more difficult than it actually is. Basically:

1. Meter for sky exposure
2. Meter for foreground exposure
3. Determine the exposure difference and use this a starting point to select a filter strength (I always use a filter that's one stop less to keep the sky brighter than the foreground...YMMV)
4. Determine whether a soft or hard gradient is needed
5. Position the filter and use the camera's stop down button to verify the gradient position
6. Press the shutter button

That's really all there is to it...it's not as difficult as it's being made out to be.

EDIT: Deleted the repeated line since Julian was ragging me about it. :D;)

[packham]

Hi argyle. I'm always confused when people say "meter for the X exposure". Do you mean adjust the settings so that the meter is at 0 or do you mean adjust so that the meter is at the zone where it's supposed to be?
For example, if meter for the sky (which is bright), do you put the sky at 0 or at +2 (if the sky is at zone 7)?
Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_system

[NYPhotog]

Hi argyle. I'm always confused when people say "meter for the X exposure". Do you mean adjust the settings so that the meter is at 0 or do you mean adjust so that the meter is at the zone where it's supposed to be?
For example, if meter for the sky (which is bright), do you put the sky at 0 or at +2 (if the sky is at zone 7)?
Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_system

We are not dealing with the zone system here. Metering the sky and the foreground is simply a means to determine how many stops brighter the sky is than the foreground so as to choose the proper strength GND filter. For example, at an aperture of f/16, the sky meters at 1/1,000th and the foreground at 1/60th - a 4-stop difference. You would then choose a GND of 2-3 stops, depending on how bright you wanted to render the sky tone (4-stops would equalize both the sky and foreground tones).

[jdizzle]

That's really all there is to it...it's not as difficult as it's being made out to be.

That's all there really is to it...it's not as difficult as it's being made out to be.

It's real easy to use GNDs.

It's real easy to use GNDs.

It's real easy to use GNDs.

:):lol:;)

[argyle]

It's real easy to use GNDs.

It's real easy to use GNDs.

It's real easy to use GNDs.

:):lol:;)

Hey...I was punching keys on an iPhone...for some reason, it wouldn't let me scroll down to delete the repetitious line...its not like I didn't try. :D:D:D

[argyle]

Hi argyle. I'm always confused when people say "meter for the X exposure". Do you mean adjust the settings so that the meter is at 0 or do you mean adjust so that the meter is at the zone where it's supposed to be?
For example, if meter for the sky (which is bright), do you put the sky at 0 or at +2 (if the sky is at zone 7)?
Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_system

What NYPhotog said in his response...I couldn't have said it any better.

[packham]

I see. Thanks NYPhotog and argyle :)

[jdizzle]

Hey...I was punching keys on an iPhone...for some reason, it wouldn't let me scroll down to delete the repetitious line...its not like I didn't try. :D:D:D

LOL! I see. I also have an iPhone and although I love it, it isn't perfect. :)