Really trying here

[kmarriner]

Ok, So this is one of my first posts here.
I have always loved racing, I have also always loved photography. This is a first for me as I am really self-conscious about sharing my work.

My dad did film back when I was a kid, so I learned a bit from that and have kept it over the years. Only recently was I able to get my slr and get back into it, and I have felt pretty good about it. Now I am getting into motorsports photography ( Also doing some racing myself).

But I do need some help, I currently shoot with an XSi and a sigma 70-200. I never learned post-processing since I never did digital and am having a hard time learning it. I have taken a few photos ( around 2000-3000) at my local track, NJMP, but they never seem to be as good as they could be.
When I first got the 70-200 I shot pretty wide open the first time at the track, not realizing how soft the focus is that wide open. I am sure I could have saved a few from looking horrid but as I said, not good at post.

What I usually do when I get to a new position on the track is take a few pictures at different settings until I find a set I like and lock that down, and I will check it every 25 minutes or so, I do this everytime I move around. I don't get press passes so I am behind fences ( I'd like to get a pass because having driven the tracks I can think of quite a few awesome shot locations that I can't get to, nor do I ever see any photographers at).


Anyway, I guess this long rambling post is to basically ask a few questions:
1. What is the best method of post?
2. Is shooting RAW really much better than just shooting LJPEG? I have shot raw once and really have not figured out how to handle it, such as where do I import it then how do I make it usable, not to mention the huge file sizes taking up SDcard space
3. Rain covers, is there any that is widely accepted as the best? I shot the rolex race in the rain and had to rely on my friend and girlfriend holding umbrellas over me.
4. Any suggestions for carrying a camera + 70-200 + tripod + extraneous gear on a mountain bike? ( My preferred method around the track)
5. Any other criticisms? And before you mention it, Yes I know my composition is horrid.

Here are some pictures for you to tear apart, most of these are resized down by me.com where I dumped them for easily gallery view.
Speed world challenge 5/2/09:
http://gallery.me.com/kmarriner/100108/IMG_4977/web.jpg?ver=12413088480001
http://gallery.me.com/kmarriner/100108/IMG_5624/web.jpg?ver=12413109230001
http://gallery.me.com/kmarriner/100108/IMG_5402/web.jpg?ver=12413118610001

Rolex 5/3/09, the exposure on these was quite wonky, the light kept shifting a lot:
This one was ruined by a film crew and I really liked it:
http://gallery.me.com/kmarriner/100109/IMG_6074/web.jpg?ver=12413946640001
http://gallery.me.com/kmarriner/100109/IMG_6040/web.jpg?ver=124139641600011
http://gallery.me.com/kmarriner/100109/IMG_6112/web.jpg?ver=12413960850001
http://gallery.me.com/kmarriner/100109/IMG_6329/web.jpg?ver=12413999380001


And one I decided to mess with for the hell of it:
http://bionickevin.com/Car/finalflamesmall.jpg (http://bionickevin.com/Car/finalflame.JPG)

[DC Fan]

Images need to be framed tighter and in focus. Post-processing won't help much with out-of focus images.

http://www.kevinlillard.com/racing/07202008b0690.jpg

http://www.kevinlillard.com/racing/07202008b0884.jpg

Also from road racing in the rain at a distance, but long focal lengths and the tightest framing possible, and in focus. Work on framing and focus before post-processing.

[Ingsy]

It's just practice, but first you have to set your camera up right. What focus settings are you using? Are you in Auto, Manual, Tv or Av mode? If manual, Tv or Av, what settings are you using?

[kmarriner]

It's just practice, but first you have to set your camera up right. What focus settings are you using? Are you in Auto, Manual, Tv or Av mode? If manual, Tv or Av, what settings are you using?
I use manual, 100iso, wide aperture, then I will lock down the shutter speed.
I use Servo focus.

[GSH]

I use manual, 100iso, wide aperture, then I will lock down the shutter speed.
I use Servo focus.

Well you've got that completely wrong...

Shutter speed first. Use TV and drop to Manual if the cars are running lights. 1/320th-1/400th for head-on, three quarter shots etc. 1/200th for pans to start getting lower as you get better.

Use your ISO to get an aperture of f8 or thereabouts. AI Servo and select focus point for composition.

Then practice.

[Ingsy]

GSH beat me to it. I started with 1/320 when I first began panning, and got stuff like this:

http://media.freeola.com/images/user-images/1657/img_1765-1.jpg


Which was alright, but with practice over a few events, I was getting down to 1/100 and getting stuff like this:

http://media.freeola.com/images/user-images/1657/img_6637-1.jpg

[Tolan]

It,s too heavy to start in M mode in the beginning. Test TV mode first and learn about how shutterspeed & aperture works & ISO together.

Don,t start with too long shutterspeeds if you want sharpness in the picture at the beginning. It,s ok if the wheels are frozen in the beginning when you practice panning and so.

So practice with around 1/500 & go for longer when you feel you got then panning ok.

[kmarriner]

It,s too heavy to start in M mode in the beginning. Test TV mode first and learn about how shutterspeed & aperture works & ISO together.

Don,t start with too long shutterspeeds if you want sharpness in the picture at the beginning. It,s ok if the wheels are frozen in the beginning when you practice panning and so.

So practice with around 1/500 & go for longer when you feel you got then panning ok.

I've been doing photography for about 16 years off and on, so I know how the settings work together, Just never digital or with motorsports.
The problem I see with using Tv is that if I want to get an aperture of 8 in lower light conditions, while keeping the shutter up, I could have to bump the ISO fairly high resulting in noise.

[Mike Hoyer]

But that would be the same with film wouldn't it. You'd have to use a grainier film.

[Tessa]

I actually rarely use Tv, mostly I'm at Av: I set the aperture to around f/3.5 or f/4 and use ISO to control shutter speed. I just prefer narrow DOF, but that's my style.

[kmarriner]

I actually rarely use Tv, mostly I'm at Av: I set the aperture to around f/3.5 or f/4 and use ISO to control shutter speed. I just prefer narrow DOF, but that's my style.

That makes more sense to me.

But that would be the same with film wouldn't it. You'd have to use a grainier film.

Yes, But with film I could shoot a 400 speed and still get less grain than I would at 400ISO with my XSi.

[slick2000]

I've been doing photography for about 16 years off and on, so I know how the settings work together, Just never digital or with motorsports.

sorry but shutter speed is the basic in motorsport, digital or analog doesn't matter,
choose a SP from 1/100 to 1/250 to get nice pannings, and go for 1/500 (or even to 1/1000) to freeze the action.

ISO 100 in a such rainy day is asking too much, I would say 400 minimum.

Unfortunately the Sigma 70-200 does't have a very quick (and precise, due to the lack of good light) focus, same story for the Rebel.

Nik :)

[GSH]

Unfortunately the Sigma 70-200 does't have a very quick (and precise, due to the lack of good light) focus


Unfortunately that's wrong, as is your suggestion to use 1/500-/1000th for Motorsport, unless you like cars to look as if they're standing still.

[KennyG]

When photographing things that move you must be in control of the shutter speed and then use the ISO to control aperture. The big problem a lot of people have in moving from film is adapting to the full and wide range control you have of ISO with digital. In daylight (most races are in daytime) you can forget about any additional noise from a high ISO for all practical purpose.

You can also push the ISO to help with "slower" lenses (F4.5 and worse) but you can't compensate for slow AF motors and there are a few non-Canon lenses that fall in to this category.

Just fix a couple of speeds in your head - for anything other than panning 1/320 or 1/400. For panning use 1/250 or 1/200. You can experiment with slower settings as you get comfortable with the basics.

I did over 20 years of motorsport with film and made the move to digital in one jump nearly 10 years ago. It is the same rules, just a lot easier and you can push everything a way lot further.

[slick2000]

Unfortunately that's wrong, as is your suggestion to use 1/500-/1000th for Motorsport, unless you like cars to look as if they're standing still.
unfortunately you didn't read properly,
as I said "to freeze" the action,
there are MANY situations that pannings just wont cut and a SS of 1/100-1/250 will blur the picture,

one good example is motocross, with groups of bikes in the dirt/mud (or rally cars going in to the water), a faster SS will freeze all the things, creating a nice effect, while a slower SS will create just a mess.

Ok, for the Sigma, I don't own it, and I was, erratically, reporting things.

Nik :)

[GSH]

unfortunately you didn't read properly,
as I said "to freeze" the action,
there are MANY situations that pannings just wont cut and a SS of 1/100-1/250 will blur the picture,

one good example is motocross, with groups of bikes in the dirt/mud (or rally cars going in to the water), a faster SS will freeze all the things, creating a nice effect, while a slower SS will create just a mess.

Ok, for the Sigma, I don't own it, and I was, erratically, reporting things.

Nik :)

Still wrong.

There is no need to "freeze" the action for Motorsports, particularly with respect to the sort of racing posted by the OP.

Also, for Rally cars in Water splashes, 1/320th is more than fast enough even when the cars aren't travelling particularly quickly. There is no need to use 1/1000th or 1/500th as you have suggested.

Both of these examples are at 1/320th. If you think they're a mess then fine. I have a list of happy customers who say otherwise. :)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/geoff.hubbert/Pics/Images%202009/Croft%20Historic/Croft%20Historic-0019.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/geoff.hubbert/Pics/Images%202009/Scoobs/Malton%20Forest%20Rally-0202.jpg

[slick2000]

There is no need to "freeze" the action for Motorsports

it's your opinion, and I fully respect it, but there are plenty of examples proving that a different result could be obtained, your images are very nice, but at 1/1000 the water / mud effect would be a little more "solid" giving a different result, that I prefer.

BTW my first sentence was .. "choose a SP from 1/100 to 1/250 to get nice pannings",
that I, almost, always use,
so frankly I don't get your rudness :confused:

Nik

[GSH]

BTW my first sentence was .. "choose a SP from 1/100 to 1/250 to get nice pannings",
that I, almost, always use,


You may or may not have noticed that your suggested speeds for panning are not what i picked up on. As for a higher speed for a more "solid" water splash effect, well that's your choice i suppose. My eyes certainly don't see the water frozen in mid air so i don't attempt to make the camera see it that way either.

Others may agree or disagree, but i'm pretty sure i know which way the majority of people on here would shoot that type of shot...


As for me being rude, if that's how you read my posts then so be it.

[jac31k]

Whats the point of shooting the same way the majority of people would shoot? So you can get the same shots?

I agree with slick2000 that sometimes its appropriate to freeze the action completely. I've seen plenty of shots with mud frozen in mid air that look spectacular.

[theryaner]

nice pics, looks good.