Fill-in Flash Confusion

[pizelli]

I have a Canon 5D Mark II with a 580EXII flash and a 24-105mm L lens. I am obsessed with good lighting and continually use flash outside for fill-in. My shots are erractic - some shots are amazing while others are blown out.

It seems to me that the "closer" I have the flash to the subject, the better the fill-in is. The further away the flash is to the subject, the more blown out the pictures look.

I am sure that there is some technical rationale for this. Can some one explain or am I off base.

When shooting at a distance to the subject and zooming in for a tight picture, is there a way to "trick the camera" to think its close to the subject ?

[gonzogolf]

I have a Canon 5D Mark II with a 580EXII flash and a 24-105mm L lens. I am obsessed with good lighting and continually use flash outside for fill-in. My shots are erractic - some shots are amazing while others are blown out.

It seems to me that the "closer" I have the flash to the subject, the better the fill-in is. The further away the flash is to the subject, the more blown out the pictures look.

I am sure that there is some technical rationale for this. Can some one explain or am I off base.

When shooting at a distance to the subject and zooming in for a tight picture, is there a way to "trick the camera" to think its close to the subject ?

Are you adjusting the power of the flash using the FEC control? You also might want to check your metering pattern, you will get different results depending on which metering pattern you are using.

[Curtis N]

Are you using Evaluative or Average E-TTL mode (Evaluative is the default, Average can be set via custom function on your camera)?

A few samples with EXIF would be helpful.

[troymm]

what mode are you shooting in?

[Bippa1]

Flash exposure compensation

Set on the camera.(meter button and thumb wheel) you may still need to test shoot. I know its a pain. (yes shoot on P)

I assume you are in ETTL.

Trev

[Gatorboy]

Sounds like he is in Av mode with a wide aperture -- and is overexposing from the get go, for the shutter speed is maxed at 1/200

[troutfisher]

If you were outdoors in good light using flash to fill in should you use HSS?

[Paul Li]

I personally use P mode when I use my pop up flash (ETTL). If you don't want to use P mode, try FEC.

[pizelli]

I have my flash set on E-TTL in high speed sync. Yes, I shoot in the Av mode normally (to control the aperture opening). I also vary the FEC (so much that even though I shoot in the Av mode, I feel that I am shooting in the manual mode because of so many changes).

Why is it better to shoot in the P mode for fill in flash ?

Also as mentioned in the original thread, the pictures "seem" to fill in better when the flash is closer to the subject ? As reason for this ?

[Curtis N]

There's a limit to the flash unit's power and ability to compete with the sun, especially in HSS mode.

Provide samples of problem shots or you'll get nothing but blind speculation.

[pizelli]

How do I go about posting some pictures ? Can I post them directly to this forum or do I have to create a link to, let's say, Flickr ?

[Player9]

I would not recommend that you use P mode, as P mode does not always utilize flash as fill-in. For example, if the ambient light is not bright enough, P mode will cause the camera to try to use the flash as the main source of light, which will be harsh, and the background will be too dark. M mode is a better choice if you really want to get independent control over the background and foreground.

I suspect that the OPs problem may be that the scene is overly contrasty and beyond the dynamic range of the camera sensor. In such a situation, something has to give; either the shadows are too dark, the highlights are blown, or both. Flash solves this problem by reducing the dynamic range into something that can be captured by the camera. It could be that, from further away, the flash isn't strong enough to raise the level of the shadows enough to allow the camera to reduce the overall exposure time (which would allow the bright highlights to register).

[Curtis N]

Image posting rules:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51022

How to attach photos to a post:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160897

Where to host photos:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=163130

Thumbnail w/ External Image Link:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=157706

[TheBurningCrown]

I have my flash set on E-TTL in high speed sync. Yes, I shoot in the Av mode normally (to control the aperture opening). I also vary the FEC (so much that even though I shoot in the Av mode, I feel that I am shooting in the manual mode because of so many changes).

Why is it better to shoot in the P mode for fill in flash ?

Also as mentioned in the original thread, the pictures "seem" to fill in better when the flash is closer to the subject ? As reason for this ?
If you're shooting in HSS, that means that the flash is putting out much less power than it would normally (you're pulsating the flash as compared to one big burst, so that you don't get black areas where the shutter curtain is at the time of the flash). So if you're shooting in a place where you need HSS, you're probably outside in bright sunlight. The flash can't compete with the sun, especially if you limit its output with a high shutter speed. The power of a flash diminished by one full stop every time you double the distance. So if you're much closer to your subject, the flash has the power to "fill" better.

Next time, put the flash in HSS outside in bright sunlight and put it on manual. You'll be able to see how much light the flash actually will give you to work with in that situation.

[MT Stringer]

I personally use P mode...

My main camera doesn't have P mode. :-)
Just AV, Tv, M and Bulb. That's all I need.
Mike

[egordon99]

I personally use P mode when I use my pop up flash (ETTL). If you don't want to use P mode, try FEC.

P and FEC are not mutually exclusive :)

[Bippa1]

Correct egordon99

Using P and FEC together is a good combo