Outside wedding: Lighting?

[czeglin]

Hi,

Unfortunately, this is my first wedding. I've read all the usual advice. I advised hiring a pro but I'm the best they could do. I'm doing it for free, but they're covering expenses. They've always liked my GWC photos on Flickr from parties we attend together. The difference is that I've always had a ceiling to bounce off of, while the wedding and reception will be outside!

They don't want formals, only candids.

You can see all of my gear in my sig.

In addition, I'm planning to borrow:
-450D
-430EX
-55-250 IS (I hope not to need this)

They'll be paying for me to rent:
-2x flash brackets
-70-200 f/2.8 IS (I hope)

I could spend a little bit more on gear, but any sort of ETTL radio trigger is going to break the bank. Manual triggers don't seem very useful for constantly changing conditions of a wedding. Others could probably adjust manual flashes reliably, but I'm not that good.

I've considered having my assistant (wife) hold a shoot through umbrella and forgoing the flash on the 2nd camera. Would the OCF trigger reliably this way? How sensitive is it to obstruction?

What tips do you have for direct flash both during the day and at night? During the daytime I can meter for ambient and use -2 to -1 FEC for fill? During night shoot at 0 FEC and live with the harsh flash? I will have Sto-fens for the flashes but such small diffusers seem silly and worthless. Is this accurate?

As a last ditch option, if you think OCF and ETTL triggers are the ONLY way, please recommend a particular model. I can always try convinving the wife to let me go farther in the hole on my camera budget :(

Thank you for reading!

[tim]

Thoughts:
- Forget the flash brackets, shoot high iso instead. I have a flash bracket but haven't used it in a couple of years, annoying uncomfortable things. Their main advantage is people think you know what you're doing and stay out of your way.
- 70-200 F2.8 IS would be nice to have.
- Outside during day just use fill flash, FEC -1 or 0. OCF is nice, but for your first wedding forget about it. Wireless ETTL that's built into the flashes is line of sight and doesn't work well with obstruction or in direct sunlight.
- At night shoot ISO1600, wide open with the 17-55 F2.8 IS, in manual exposed for the background. Use direct flash if there's nothing to bounce off, FEC+1 or so to expose properly.

Tell us more about the reception venue/setup and maybe we can advise more. Really though OCF radio triggered is about the only step up you can do, and that's expensive.

[czeglin]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what does ISO have to do with a flash bracket? I thought the purpose of the bracket was to avoid side shadows and red-eye.

So basically the optical sensor in the 430EX won't work reliably during daytime. How about at night? Of course, P&S flashes from guests will also set it off, right?

Here are some photos the B&G provided of the site. I posted them on a private gallery because I did not take them. I will delete them as soon as this thread concludes. link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/czeglin/sets/72157621901071057/)

The ceremony and reception are taking place at a residence. The entire thing is outside. As you can see from the photos the trees will not be providing any reliable shade.

On another note, a friend of mine just picked up a 430EX II that I may be able to borrow. But at that point I will have 3 flashes and 2 cameras, with no OCF solution...

[tim]

You're excused :p

High ISO means you avoid using flash, therefore no bracket is required. If it's REALLY dark then I just shoot landscape, with the flash head zoomed so the pews don't fool the metering. But if it's really dark and you're new then go with the bracket. The only place I would ever use them is for the processional and recessional, since I don't use direct flash as the main light otherwise. Even if you do just remove the red eye in PS.

If sunlight is falling directly on the red sensor it doesn't work reliably. At night there's no sun, so it's usually ok, but you need line of sight or a bounce surface.

[czeglin]

Ok. The ceremony starts at 4:30 outside so I should have plenty of light. I think I will avoid flash during the ceremony so I don't distract people. Afterwards I was planning to use flash during daylight to fill in the shadows on people's faces. Do you think this is unnecessary? After sunset my only light will be direct flash, it seems. Would you really forego the brackets in this (admittedly undesirable) situation? It seems limiting to only shoot landscape all night. I doubt I will have too many clean shots without people in the background to show the side shadow.

Thank you for the tips.

[tim]

I don't think you've quite understood my landscape comment. If you shoot landscape with flash during the processional the pews will be in the shot, the camera will expose for the flash, and so the people in the aisle will be underexposed. Shooting portrait removes the pews but creates side shadow. The two solutions are flash bracket or no flash, I prefer the latter.

Use the flash outside during the ceremony, no-one will notice. The general rule is if it's sunny outside you always use flash.

If you're shooting direct flash outside all night this is one of the few cases a flash bracket might be useful, as the dilated pupils will look red. Flash brackets help reduce red eye, but not eliminate it. Personally I lost the camera mounting plate for my flash bracket and never bothered to replace it.

I'd use three radio triggered off camera flashes spaced around the area I wanted to light.

[form]

If there are no situations where you will need to be far away from the subjects, a 70-200 will be no great benefit and you could get more use out of a fast prime instead (24L, 35L, 50L, 85L). The 70-200 is only really useful for the ceremony and only necessary when you aren't permitted to get up close.

I heard the alienbees new radio triggers are universal and they're less expensive than elinchom skyports for off camera flash.

[bobbyz]

I don't think you've quite understood my landscape comment. If you shoot landscape with flash during the processional the pews will be in the shot, the camera will expose for the flash, and so the people in the aisle will be underexposed.

I don't understand this. Why would flash under-expose the people in the shots? If the flash metering is tied to the focus point and that focus point is on the people, why would pews have any affect?

[form]

Closer subjects get hit by more light sooner, so they appear brighter and throw off your metering of the whole scene. In general, if the flash hits something that has a high reflective value and sends back really bright light, the flash tends to underexpose the scene because it's getting an inaccurate reading from the reflected light.

Plus, since the light's traveling in a linear way, the subjects closer to the flash will be illuminated more than farther subjects (if people are farther away, they will be darker).

Spot metering might help properly illuminate the people in the center of the frame, but then the pews would be way too bright because the flash would expose the distant subjects correctly, resulting in even more light hitting the pews and blowing them out in highlight range.

Manual flash might be best for consistency.

[alt4852]

not much to add to what has already been said, but i just wanted to wish you luck since you're from the coolest city in the united states. ;)

[philmar]

how can you tell he's from Ann Arbor, Mich?

[alt4852]

how can you tell he's from Ann Arbor, Mich?

:lol:

[czeglin]

It's nice to see someone else from Rockville! Any local spots you're fond of for photography?

[alt4852]

It's nice to see someone else from Rockville! Any local spots you're fond of for photography?

as much as i hate to admit it, bethesda and and germantown are much more interesting places to run around with a camera. rockville town center is renovated so it looks new and modern.. but it's lost a lot of the old character in my opinion. the stretch of 355 around MC and the post office have some quaint little neighborhoods (where i grew up) but i think they're only useful as backdrops with models rather than being intrisically interesting to photograph. if you're really dry on ideas, hop on the metro to DC and you have a grid of stations to run around and find inspiration. good luck! ;)

[tim]

I don't understand this. Why would flash under-expose the people in the shots? If the flash metering is tied to the focus point and that focus point is on the people, why would pews have any affect?

The flash metering isn't tied to the focus point. I think i've explained it pretty well, go try it yourself and you'll see.

[czeglin]

For what it's worth, I understand now.