Football...what aperture/speed?

[ARMEE]

Hi all....
I have been taking pictures of youth football.
Newly acquired 300IS with MK3,question is,
what's your recommended aperture value for adequate
DOF?
Also I usually try to stay in the 1/400th to 1/500th range,is that what you use?
Lastly.using a tripos is their a trick to keep the horizontal
well horizontal using a monopod,following the action ,I tend
to bend withe action...LOL..
Any and all advice welcome.

P.S. I am well aware of ISO etc

[computerguru3190]

You own a Mark III but don't know how to use it? I'd suggest going back to a 50D for the automatic settings.

[RickyH]

I'd be shooting at a 2.8.

[eigga]

You own a Mark III but don't know how to use it? I'd suggest going back to a 50D for the automatic settings.

I have a 4x4 and it never goes off road, and a playstation that is only used for movies but I dont need to return them. Having great equipment is not only for the "pros"

Anyway typically for night football 2.8 is required to keep the shutter high enough. I prefer to stay at 1/640 but often end up at 1/500. You can always add flash too... There is a great thread about night football flash for this. For football in better light stopping down to f/4 can help depending on the backgrounds but I usually stay wide open anyway.

Keeping the horizon straight just takes practice... I have that issue as well and have to stay on top of it or it gets bad

[dmwierz]

If by "tripos" you mean tripod, do not use a tripod on the sidelines of a football game. Your 300 is just about what I would consider entry level for a monopod, and if you don't secure the tripod collar, you can learn to twist while you turn and keep the horizons pretty much level.

There are a TON of threads on shooting sports here, so check out the stickies.

Any of Scott Sewell's You Tube football videos are great for starters. Here's the one on exposure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEtd38xhlTo&feature=related

[ARMEE]

You own a Mark III but don't know how to use it? I'd suggest going back to a 50D for the automatic settings.
Computerguru,,,GROW UP! and learn to be respectful...

[ARMEE]

I have a 4x4 and it never goes off road, and a playstation that is only used for movies but I dont need to return them. Having great equipment is not only for the "pros"

Anyway typically for night football 2.8 is required to keep the shutter high enough. I prefer to stay at 1/640 but often end up at 1/500. You can always add flash too... There is a great thread about night football flash for this. For football in better light stopping down to f/4 can help depending on the backgrounds but I usually stay wide open anyway.

Keeping the horizon straight just takes practice... I have that issue as well and have to stay on top of it or it gets bad
Thank you MATT for the sound advice,that's pretty much
what I use ,But I find at 2.8 my DOF is very limited,I try
ans shoot at 4.0.My speed is basically what you mentioned.
Thanks again.

[ARMEE]

If by "tripos" you mean tripod, do not use a tripod on the sidelines of a football game. Your 300 is just about what I would consider entry level for a monopod, and if you don't secure the tripod collar, you can learn to twist while you turn and keep the horizons pretty much level.

There are a TON of threads on shooting sports here, so check out the stickies.

Any of Scott Sewell's You Tube football videos are great for starters. Here's the one on exposure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEtd38xhlTo&feature=related

Thank you,
sorry for the typos,I wrote this at 5.30AM,but no excuses.
I will try the collard trick and read the stickies too.
Thanks gain for your help.

[jamesb84]

Computerguru,,,GROW UP! and learn to be respectful...

Actually, he may have a point...I'm not after a fight, but what reasons did you have for buying the mk3?

I found the 30D to be perfectly suitable for sports, and since it was my earnings that I was spending, if it did the job for a fraction of the price, then I had more money for food to survive on.

Since then, I have bought a 1DmkII secondhand (and boy was it scuffed) due to a problem with ISO3200 on the 30D but still have the 30D as my second body...i would have loved a mk3, but didnt think that the benefits I would have got from it over the mk2 justified jeopardising my rent or food for that month.

It's all very well when you've got money to burn, but if you're working to a budget (and to be honest, i'd recommend that to EVERYONE here, it's much more rewarding to get great photos, and still have some cash left at the end of the month) then if you can get the job done for less money, then good for you.

So, there are pro's and con's to buying a mk3 and a 300IS...I had my 300 for 2 1/2 years because it was suitable without being as expensive as the 400. Now my remit has changed enough to require the 400, i've sold the 300 and I'll be buying secondhand (because, it's just as good...but cheaper).

Before you start telling people to give you respect, you need to earn it. Some people (rightly or wrongly) believe that if you start doing photography, you dont go and buy the 1D mk3 as your first body.

Anyway, as for advice, I would start by saying, you want to be wide open on aperture, shutter speed above 1/640 to cut down any motion blur, and match the ISO to appropriately expose. I'd recommend spot metering as well, simply because it will show you where you'll be properly exposed better. Some people prefer evaluative and then correct the levels in PP...but I dont have the time, i'll get the subject correct and to hell with the backgrounds, they'll be blurred anyway by the wide open aperture.

The 300IS has a tripod ring that you can keep pretty loose (though be careful not to make it too loose, or it can detach the nut from the screw inner) and therefore on a monopod, use the weight of the camera body to keep you horizontal, if for whatever reason you dont, adjust it in PP, Photoshop has a handy rotate function when you crop, use it, that's what it's there for...use something in the background as a reference point, and then bingo.

[ARMEE]

James...
First of all who said the MK3 was my first body.
I went through 40D,5D and 1D MK2 before buying a used MK3,
I don't feel I have to justify my purchases to anyone but myself.
I do all this to take pictures of my two sons playing football,
any other pictures I take in the games,I give away to the kids
as some kids never saw themselves in a decent picture ever.
I thought this board was about helping each other take better
pictures,well it seems as philosophy is another.
I would appreciate answers about the question in question
and only that.

Beyond that,thank you James for the part Anyway for advice...
Have a great day.

[jamesb84]

James...
First of all who said the MK3 was my first body.
I went through 40D,5D and 1D MK2 before buying a used MK3,
I don't feel I have to justify my purchases to anyone but myself.
I do all this to take pictures of my two sons playing football,
any other pictures I take in the games,I give away to the kids
as some kids never saw themselves in a decent picture ever.
I thought this board was about helping each other take better
pictures,well it seems as philosophy is another.
I would appreciate answers about the question in question
and only that.

Beyond that,thank you James for the part Anyway for advice...
Have a great day.

Sorry that you seem to feel that my answer to you was an attack...it wasn't meant as that. However, there are some who get annoyed at someone going out and spending $1000's on equipment with no idea how to use it. I've not accused you of that, but others have.

If you wish to take my advice, then fine, but in future I will have to be more selective about which threads I participate in if I'll be accused of something i've not done.

[ARMEE]

James:
My reply was not meant to dissuade you to participate in future threads
as I did end by thanking you for the technical aspect of the reply.
One person's situation is not another,you don't know mine nor do I know yours.
My point was just if you want to answer the question fine,but if
you want to past judgment on my purchasing habits,not fine.
But again I want to take this opportunity to thank you for part
of your reply.
After all we are here to learn and/or help others do better what
we all love,that is taking pictures,capturing the moment.
Peace and love.
No harm done.

[tmchance]

ARMEE:

On a side note, how did you like your 50? I'm new to this forum (as DGrin is having issues) and I'm on the fence about purchasing a 50. I've been using my XSi since it came out and I'm looking to add a new body with more fps. I've read several reviews that stated it had significant noise issues. I live in the DC area and love night photography - ISO around 100 to 400. Thanks again and don't let the words of others distract you from your goals.

[ARMEE]

TM:
I never owned a 50D, I have/had a 40D and 5D, I have a friend who owned a 40D for a long time ,bought a 50D to go along with it,did not like his 50D and sold it due to noise issues.
But,he's a real stickler for image quality and he read some negative
comments on the forums that may have influenced his decision.
If I may suggest ,you ask in a new thread so that current 50D
owners can better answer.
I hope this helps.

[tmchance]

Sorry - I misread where you stated you'd owned a 40D, 5D.....Thanks again.

[computerguru3190]

I didn't mean it harshly. I meant that having a Mark III but not being experienced enough to set manual settings is harmful. The auto modes on the Mark III are not useful if you don't.

[ARMEE]

Not a problem....
Besides,the MK3 has many more settings than the average camera.
FYI. I should often in Manual mode as my first SLR I got was
a Mamiya 500 ,completely manual in 1973.
My motto is,if I have nothing positive to contribute to
a thread,I don't.
To each his own.
You take care now.
Armand...

[Rocketdun]

If you want to get one player of a group of players in a football actions shots try shooting in the AV mode, with the aperture set at 2.8 and try keeping the shutter speed around 1/250 if possible. Keep in mind the closer you are to the action the most background blur is achieved. The further the action or players are from you camera and lens you will have more of the back ground in focus. You mentioned that you had a 300 IS lens assuming it it an aperture of 2.8 you would try to set your camera to the AV mode, spot focus, and check the shutter speed to see what ISO would allow you to shoot at no less than 1/250 as the shutter speed. The later in the day you shoot you may have to move to the higher ISO's to achieve 1/250 shutter speed or above.
I can see some of the folks raked you over the coals about having a higher end camera and admitting that you had some questions about use. The dumbest question was the one that was never asked.

[carshop]

If you want to get one player of a group of players in a football actions shots try shooting in the AV mode, with the aperture set at 2.8 and try keeping the shutter speed around 1/250 if possible. Keep in mind the closer you are to the action the most background blur is achieved. The further the action or players are from you camera and lens you will have more of the back ground in focus. You mentioned that you had a 300 IS lens assuming it it an aperture of 2.8 you would try to set your camera to the AV mode, spot focus, and check the shutter speed to see what ISO would allow you to shoot at no less than 1/250 as the shutter speed. The later in the day you shoot you may have to move to the higher ISO's to achieve 1/250 shutter speed or above.
I can see some of the folks raked you over the coals about having a higher end camera and admitting that you had some questions about use. The dumbest question was the one that was never asked.
Good point

[Sledhed]

As DW said, DO NOT shoot football using a tripod. This is dangerous for you, the other people around you and the players. If a play comes towards you, you can not move out of the way fast enough with a tripod. If you don't have one pick up a monopod, a Bogen 680 or 681 are relatively inexpensive and more than adequate to hold a 300/2.8.

[tmchance]

Great reply Rocketdun - I'm positive that is EXACTLY what Armee was requesting.....I recently picked up a Manfrotto 681B monopod at Ritz for around $55 (max load 26lbs or somewhere in that range). It's extremely solid and well built. I would definitely recommend purchasing a Wimberly'ish lens plate for quick release. Scott Sewell dicusses this on his YouTube segment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pth9aKWh3Go&feature=PlayList&p=F6B375A7D4AD882C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=4

[dmwierz]

Great reply Rocketdun - I'm positive that is EXACTLY what Armee was requesting.....I recently picked up a Manfrotto 681B monopod at Ritz for around $55 (max load 26lbs or somewhere in that range). It's extremely solid and well built. I would definitely recommend purchasing a Wimberly'ish lens plate for quick release. Scott Sewell dicusses this on his YouTube segment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pth9aKWh3Go&feature=PlayList&p=F6B375A7D4AD882C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=4

While I respect Scott a lot, I have never seen the need for anything on top of a monopod - this includes quick release or swivel heads. Just one more thing to fail, or come loose, or whatever. Why not just screw the monopod directly onto the lens collar? IMO, this is a lot more secure, especially with a $6,000 lens hanging off the end of a $100 lens plate. Real scary!

[jamesb84]

If you want to get one player of a group of players in a football actions shots try shooting in the AV mode, with the aperture set at 2.8 and try keeping the shutter speed around 1/250 if possible. Keep in mind the closer you are to the action the most background blur is achieved. The further the action or players are from you camera and lens you will have more of the back ground in focus. You mentioned that you had a 300 IS lens assuming it it an aperture of 2.8 you would try to set your camera to the AV mode, spot focus, and check the shutter speed to see what ISO would allow you to shoot at no less than 1/250 as the shutter speed. The later in the day you shoot you may have to move to the higher ISO's to achieve 1/250 shutter speed or above.
I can see some of the folks raked you over the coals about having a higher end camera and admitting that you had some questions about use. The dumbest question was the one that was never asked.

I agree with this, except for the speed stated. I really would like to have a bit more speed than 1/250 personally. I would say 1/640 for pro level (college or NFL football) and 1/400 for youth level (not sure what you'd call that! pee-wee?!) just to cut down on motion blur.

The mk3 can handle higher ISO speeds without a huge loss in image quality, so i'd advocate using them! I'd say start at 1/640 then if you think the speed of the play can handle it, go down to 1/400 with a corresponding drop in ISO speed. Keep the aperture at 2.8 though, much better for blurring backgrounds even though some may say it's not the lenses "sweet spot".

James

[AzzKicker]

I agree with this, except for the speed stated. I really would like to have a bit more speed than 1/250 personally. I would say 1/640 for pro level (college or NFL football) and 1/400 for youth level (not sure what you'd call that! pee-wee?!) just to cut down on motion blur.




Good luck finding a High School Stadium that will have the lighting capability to allow you to get a 1/640 shutter. I've been in some stadiums where ISO3200 and F2.8 will barely get you 1/400.

[dinny66]

As has been said, it does rather depend on your lighting levels. Are you shooting daytime or night time, as you don't specify?
I've found shooting football (soccer), which I do every week, that a monopod is very useful. Tripods a no-no. Where are you on the field? If you are pitch side I'm surprised it's allowed TBH. Daytime I'm shooting f4 lowest ISO to give reliable 1/640 in the darkest areas of the pitch. The f4 gives you a bit of leaway when you've got a bunch of players together.
Nightime, it depends on the floodlights I guess. f2.8, ISO to get you 1/400 or faster. -EC if needs be. Much slower than that and motion blur comes in. Better to NR afterwards than have a ruined shot because of motion blur I think.
Never used a flash. More likely to get kicked out! If your pitchside it's a distraction the players can well do without, especially if you're standing up so at face level with them.
Personally I use centre-weighted metering, as opposed to evaluative.
If you get any good High ISO 6400 ones, do post. I'm on the cusp of buying a 1D3 myself.

HTH,

Mike

[dinny66]

Good luck finding a High School Stadium that will have the lighting capability to allow you to get a 1/640 shutter. I've been in some stadiums where ISO3200 and F2.8 will barely get you 1/400.

+1 :lol:

[Gatorboy]

I have been taking pictures of youth football.
Newly acquired 300IS with MK3,question is,
what's your recommended aperture value for adequate
DOF?

Wide open.

[dinny66]

Found these, might help.

Mike

[dinny66]

And these.

Mike