Color shift with different flash power settings

[texshooter]

I was so happy to test drive my new Alien Bee 1600 flash to see how much power it has to offer compared to 580exii, and to my horror as I lowered the power setting from full to 1/32, the color balance shifts toward red.

How do you guys manage this problem when you are using multiple studio flashes at different power settings. Don't tell me you fuss with a different color gels for every different power setting. If so, this is going to be more complicated than I planned.

[Gatorboy]

I never notice a difference in color based on power. Are you sure you aren't getting ambient leaking through?

[texshooter]

There's no ambient. I'm taking test shots of the bathroom with no ambient because the ceramic tile makes for a good test. I guess I could use all my strobes at the same power and slap on neutral density gels, but I don't see how that would be any easier that setting the strobes at appropriate power and slapping color correction gels. Oh well.

[texshooter]

Oh, I forgot to mention that between test shots, I changed the ISO to compensate for the flash power adjustment. Perhaps different ISO's have different white balances?

[opus13]

Don't tell me you fuss with a different color gels for every different power setting. If so, this is going to be more complicated than I planned.

post processing. everything gets tweaked anyway, touching the color up is barely any extra effort.

[TMR Design]

I was so happy to test drive my new Alien Bee 1600 flash to see how much power it has to offer compared to 580exii, and to my horror as I lowered the power setting from full to 1/32, the color balance shifts toward red.

How do you guys manage this problem when you are using multiple studio flashes at different power settings. Don't tell me you fuss with a different color gels for every different power setting. If so, this is going to be more complicated than I planned.

No matter how much people want to dispute this it is an issue with Bees and Paul Buff himself acknowledges the issue. There are color temperature shifts towards magenta as you drop the power to 1/16 or 1/32. Buff admits it so don't attack me or think I'm a basher. Contact the owner of the company.

[TMR Design]

post processing. everything gets tweaked anyway, touching the color up is barely any extra effort.

Not so when you want to correct a white background and in the process you destroy your skin tones. The concept of creating layer masks to correct for this problem is absurd. If you do some solid searching you'll find that the OP is not the first person to experience this and it's been pointed out many times.

[bobbyz]

If I needed to use AB1600 at 1/32 I would have bought X1600 to begin with.

[Vad]

Some color shift is there with any strobe. With Alien Bees the issue probably more noticeable than with similar lights. There are many ways to reduce the color shift but unfortunately it brings other issues. For example Photogenic Studiomax boasts very consistent color temperature, but.. The flash duratuion of the strobe is 1/125 sec. Calumet Genesis specifies tight color tolerance, but again the flash duration is 1/250 sec.

Just choose the one the fits your needs better. If your application is mostly color critical product photography for example - go with Photogenics. If you work with people especially children or experineced models go with ABs. If your life depends on it forget about all three and buy yourself Profoto.

Oh one more thing. Many cheaper softboxes pollute the color of the strobe due to flourescent effect.

Below is the color shift of AB800 light I took at different power setting. I use it to correct the white balance after the fact. If I remember for example that the power setting of strobes during a photoshoot were at 1/4 power I just pick the corresponding reference and apply it to the images. If you are less lazy than me you can shoot a grey card during the photoshoot. But I very often pick a handful of photos from a photoshoot and spend a couple hours on them. I may change the color balance from the ideal one because to me it looks better, very often it is warmer than the original.
So nothing to worry about; enjoy your lights and pay more attention to the posing, composition etc than to the characteristics of your lights :-)
And finally if one your light is set at maximum and another at minimum you are probably doing something wrong.

387189

[Wilt]

If I needed to use AB1600 at 1/32 I would have bought X1600 to begin with.

Yet many people who solicit advice about buying studio flash, and who are considering AB, are told "Buy more power, you can always turn it down!"

[bobbyz]

Well my advice always has been, if you think you need low power as well as more power then spend a bit more and buy X1600 instead of Ab1600. X1600 has a switch so one gets AB400 and Ab1600 in one unit. When shooting at lower powers, flip the switch to AB400 setting and use it. More consistent power and color. Need more power for outdoors, flip the switch and you gto AB1600.

[TMR Design]

Well my advice always has been, if you think you need low power as well as more power then spend a bit more and buy X1600 instead of Ab1600. X1600 has a switch so one gets AB400 and Ab1600 in one unit. When shooting at lower powers, flip the switch to AB400 setting and use it. More consistent power and color. Need more power for outdoors, flip the switch and you gto AB1600.

Good advice Bobby. Best of both worlds.

[texshooter]

Thanks all for the advice. I will look into the X1600 line. I did not know they existed.

[eduardofrances]

I was so happy to test drive my new Alien Bee 1600 flash to see how much power it has to offer compared to 580exii, and to my horror as I lowered the power setting from full to 1/32, the color balance shifts toward red.

How do you guys manage this problem when you are using multiple studio flashes at different power settings. Don't tell me you fuss with a different color gels for every different power setting. If so, this is going to be more complicated than I planned.

Use a gray card :) http://www.whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/02/index.html here you can find a video explaining how to use a gray card, whibal is the one I can recommend it is great :).

In reality you use a gray card or even a color checker when color accuracy is wanted, even if you have high end lighting gear it is highly recommended you use one of the two of the after mentioned items :).

[Vad]

Thanks all for the advice. I will look into the X1600 line. I did not know they existed.
Or if you are not afraid of new stuff you can wait for ABMax, which is claimed to will use the same power switcher as WL.

[texshooter]

Regarding the suggestion of using a White Lightning X1600 instead of an AB1600 to achieve better color consistency at lower power setting, I think that idea is dead in the water. I contacted Paul Buff company with this question:

Which of the three below scenarios will produce the least amount of color shift?

Scenario A: Change the power setting on an Alien Bee 1600 from full power to 1/16th power.

Scenario B: Change the power setting on a White Lightning X1600 from full power to 1/16th power after pushing the Power Range switch.

Scenario C: Disconnect a full power AB1600 and swap it with an AB400 set at 1/4 power.

Thanks much.


The Paul Buff company answered as follows:

Hi Sean,
The color shift is the same on all of our flash units – it is roughly 300 degrees Kelvin from the highest setting to the lowest possible setting. This applies to a X1600 in quarter power mode as well as in full power mode. When the X1600 is in quarter power mode you will get the same shift – at the highest setting to the lowest possible setting is about 300 degrees Kelvin. It is the same for the B400 as well. So the color shift on a B1600 from full to 1/16th power and the color temperature shift on a X1600 from full to 1/16th power in quarter power or full power mode is exactly the same. The B400 at ¼ power will be the same color temperature wise as any of our other lights at ¼ power. The main differences (between the B400 and a B1600 or X1600 in full power mode) would be the output and the recycle time.
I hope this clears things up for you – please let me know if you need further assistance.
Thanks,




So unless I've misread their answer, switching from AB to WL will not help reduce color shift when dialing down the power. I think I'll have to wait for the new ABMax. Can someone confirm if I am correct?

[TMR Design]

Well then, there you have it. Right from the horses mouth. I thought he had the issue corrected with the use of the 1/4 switch but apparently not.

Thanks for the info and confirmation of the shift.

[apersson850]

Obviously this is the reason for why Canon's own flash units, like the 580 EX II, transmits light temperature information to the camera.

[Hermes]

I thought the low-power shift was towards magenta

What he seems to be referring to in that email is a typical temperature shift of a few hundred degrees across the power range which is very little in real terms. Nothing mentioned about the magenta cast (not expressed in kelvin) or how that would be affected by the different scenarios.

[TMR Design]

It is towards magenta Hermes and it's not so much that 300 degrees is huge or a lot more than other strobes but the way I understand it is that the color shift is based on the window of temperatures moreso than the actual amount of shift.

[Vad]

I thought the low-power shift was towards magenta

What he seems to be referring to in that email is a typical temperature shift of a few hundred degrees across the power range which is very little in real terms. Nothing mentioned about the magenta cast (not expressed in kelvin) or how that would be affected by the different scenarios.

Do you care to post some examples ? I was looking and looking at my shots and could not find any dreaded magenta shift.

[TMR Design]

I don't have links off hand but this has been seen and images posted many times, both in testing and in actual portraiture.

If I have some time I'll try to find those posts and images.

[rabidcow]

AWB or custom?

[Vad]

I don't have links off hand but this has been seen and images posted many times, both in testing and in actual portraiture.

If I have some time I'll try to find those posts and images.
This one?
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=8264174&postcount=138

[TMR Design]

No, I'm referring to posts that clearly demonstrated the magenta tint.

[RichNY]

So unless I've misread their answer, switching from AB to WL will not help reduce color shift when dialing down the power. I think I'll have to wait for the new ABMax. Can someone confirm if I am correct?
Or you always have the choice of buying strobes from one of many many companies that don't have the color shift.;)

[MR do little]

AWB or custom?

As long as the wb is fixed you will notice the shift if its there.

[Vad]

No, I'm referring to posts that clearly demonstrated the magenta tint.
The shot I quoted was made by someone else but it is very consistent with my experience with the lights. See post #9 in this thread. Yes there is color shift towards warm but nothing out of ordinary. Other lights in this price range do the same.
So how could it be that in the most unfavorable situation like shooting white towels there is no magenta cast even at 1/32 but some shots that you are looking for still show it ? FYI the color cast often is caused by other factors, for example low quality materials used in light modifiers. My guess is that all the rumors about magenta cast were caused by this. I remember there was a letter from Alien Bees notifying that some batches of their sofboxes were released with such materials and caused a blue cast in that case. I would think using cheap e-bay softboxes could cause any type of color cast.
On the side note once I was bored and went for a class with on of the local famous photographers. The guy is very good and charges upward of $4000 for a photoshoot. He easily could afford to buy a set of Profoto or any the fanciest lights. His profession in younger years was developing software for printing, processing color profiles and so on, so he understands the issue better than any of us.
But guess what: For the last number of years he has been using exclusively Alien Bees, he does pay attention where he takes the modifiers from. Someone asked about the color problems with AB, and the guy gave us a long laugh. His literal words "Why do you need the lights for ? If measuring color temperature, and other properties of the lights by no means buy the most expensive lights you can get. If however you need the light to take pictures stop asking b/s questions and go practice shooting not measuring."
That was the most important lesson I got from that class.

[TMR Design]

I'm not going to try to explain why you or others don't see the tint or don't experience it or can't show it.

I'm not new to lighting, white balance or using strobes and all I can tell you is that all the questions like "did you try this?" or "maybe it's your modifier", etc. have been explored by myself as well as all the people that have experienced the magenta tint over the years.

The one thing that is consistent with every instance is that as soon as we use another strobe the problem goes away. If the scientists among us want to figure that out then that would be great but if I do exactly the same thing in terms of setting custom white balance, use the same modifiers in the same room with the same backgrounds and I get a magenta tint with Bees and then don't when I replace it with another strobe then I really don't need to know any more than that.

I've had this discussion/argument far too many times to find it fun or interesting any more. If users of Alien Bees are not having the problem then that's great. Don't sweat it. For those that are having the problem, don't let others convince you you're doing something wrong or that your modifiers are creating the color shift. For those that have the problem and want to resolve it, do yourself a favor and try a strobe from another manufacturer.

I won't ask anyone to believe me or trust me blindly. I never have and never will. Do your own experiments, troubleshoot on your own and see what you find.

[Vad]

I'm not going to try to explain why you or others don't see the tint or don't experience it or can't show it.

I'm not new to lighting, white balance or using strobes and all I can tell you is that all the questions like "did you try this?" or "maybe it's your modifier", etc. have been explored by myself as well as all the people that have experienced the magenta tint over the years.

The one thing that is consistent with every instance is that as soon as we use another strobe the problem goes away. If the scientists among us want to figure that out then that would be great but if I do exactly the same thing in terms of setting custom white balance, use the same modifiers in the same room with the same backgrounds and I get a magenta tint with Bees and then don't when I replace it with another strobe then I really don't need to know any more than that.

I've had this discussion/argument far too many times to find it fun or interesting any more. If users of Alien Bees are not having the problem then that's great. Don't sweat it. For those that are having the problem, don't let others convince you you're doing something wrong or that your modifiers are creating the color shift. For those that have the problem and want to resolve it, do yourself a favor and try a strobe from another manufacturer.

I won't ask anyone to believe me or trust me blindly. I never have and never will. Do your own experiments, troubleshoot on your own and see what you find.
If at least one shot like the one I quoted above does not display the problem that means there is no problem. I haven't seen it in my photos and nobody was able to show me the problem in theirs. Searching google with alien bees +"magenta cast" brings no convincing examples. Taking into account that the ammount of AB users in the US is probably higher than the number of users of any other light the discussion would be all over the place, and nobody would buy the lights by now.

In your case it could be that the flash tubes you had on your ABs were not UV coated, as it used to be the case a couple years ago with ABs. Now they do install UV coated flashtubes. The amount of color pollution from synthetic materials used in modifiers is directly affected by the inensity of UV radiation. Also the human skin can react to UV lights.

Anyway I do not see any significant color cast besides usual warm shift when powering down.

[TMR Design]

If at least one shot like the one I quoted above does not display the problem that means there is no problem. I haven't seen it in my photos and nobody was able to show me the problem in theirs. Searching google with alien bees +"magenta cast" brings no convincing examples. Taking into account that the ammount of AB users in the US is probably higher than the number of users of any other light the discussion would be all over the place, and nobody would buy the lights by now.

In your case it could be that the flash tubes you had on your ABs were not UV coated, as it used to be the case a couple years ago with ABs. Now they do install UV coated flashtubes. The amount of color pollution from synthetic materials used in modifiers is directly affected by the inensity of UV radiation. Also the human skin can react to UV lights.

Anyway I do not see any significant color cast besides usual warm shift when powering down.

Fine, then there's no problem. Everyone else is right and I'm wrong. I'm with you man. You can believe that and myself and others will know the truth. It's absurd for you to state that there's no problem considering the numbers of complaints and the problem repeating itself often.

You don't find it interesting at all that the only time the complaint comes up is when an Alien Bees strobe is used? Hmmm, I guess we ignore the facts that we don't want to see.

SO do your thing and enjoy.

[rabidcow]

As long as the wb is fixed you will notice the shift if its there.

Exactly, which is why I am asking what WB setting was used.

[MrV]

I not only experience color shifts with mine but I also experience power output fluctuations. It's about a stop difference when that happens, it doesn't happen a lot but it's enough for me to get annoy by it. I got everything going just the way I want it and the lights decide to play power games on me just when everything is running smoothly. I hate it.

To cope with it, I just tell the model to take a break, discharge the capacitors, shut down all the lights and try again in 20 minutes. That usually works but man do I wish I had consistent lights to work with. So I now I'm contemplating switching to more efficient and consistent lights.

For the record, I have 2 AB800 and 1 AB1600
--MrV

[BCRose]

Seems to be a constant theme running through these AB threads with the same person. Give it a break.

[TMR Design]

Look at the subject and OP. Brand new thread. New person. Same question.

[Wilt]

Seems to be a constant theme running through these AB threads with the same person. Give it a break.

With a little Search research, you will discover illustrated threads started by people complaining of color shift, contributions by people which demonstrate color shift, and voiced complaints by other people within threads...

Texshooter, CurtisN, Tharmsen, Bumgardnern, Fensterbme, PaceAce, Kimms, MrV

Unfair to blame one person, as if they have a vendetta!

[bobbyz]

Some of my tests done topday.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=8490736&postcount=25

[texshooter]

Comparing your results to mine, every power setting below 1/8 is unusable. I decided to use the AB1600 at full, 1/2, and 1/4 power only. I'll use the AB400 for up to two more lower stops, and I'll use a 580exii if I need even less power.

[Curtis N]

How do you guys manage this problem when you are using multiple studio flashes at different power settings.I will atempt to provide some useable advice here, starting with the assumption that the B1600 below 1/8 power exhibits a slight magenta color shift and a drop in consistancy of output. In my opinion these issues do not apply to power settings of 1/8 or more. There are several ways to attack the problem, and the best way depends on the situation and user preference. Most of the suggestions below are methods I have employed at one time or another.

1) Use a larger modifier at a greater distance. This will allow a higher power setting without changing the apparent size of the light source. It also allows your subject more movement without significantly affecting exposure.
2) Use ND gels on the lights to reduce output.
3) Use an ND filter on the lens.
4) Use a hotshoe flash unit instead of the B1600.
5) Adjust exposure and white balance in post as needed.
6) If you need to use low power on a regular basis, consider purchasing lower powered strobes to better match your needs.

Once again I will recommend the use of a WhiBal card to neutralize groups of shots, regardless what lights you're using.