Canon Canada drops the ball (er...lens!!)

[schmoelzel]

I'll try and keep this short but I am sure that a lot of you will find this most interesting (as have I!). Back in Ferbruary I took my copy of the 28-70f2.8 L into a local photo shop to get them to send it to Canon Canada and have it calibrated and tested. I was never happy with the quality I was getting for a supposedly sharp lens.......everything was soft. 1 week after dropping the lens off, I received a call from the photo shop telling me that the lab at Canon had determined that there were three focus elements that were severely out of spec and one element that needed cleaning. Estimate to do the work was $144 CAD. I told the shop to go ahead and ok'd the repair. My plan was to sell the lens once I got it back in working condition. I was told it would take 4 weeks.........4 weeks went by and I began to call the shop every week to see if any progress was made. Same answer every week.........no word from Canon. After 7 weeks, I decided to call Canon Canada in Mississauga myself and see if I could find out anything. That was 3 weeks ago........last week I received a call from a young lady at Canon telling me that the lens would be shipped to the photo shop on Friday May 13th...........I should have it on the following Monday. I thought, great 11 weeks but at least the lens will/should be ok. Today I received a call from the shop asking if I could come in.........they had received a lens from Canon but it wasn't my 28-70 but rather a 16-35f2.8 L. Canon Canada wanted to know if I would accept this brand new lens in lieu of them 'losing' my original lens!! Due to these forums, I immediately knew that this was a much more expensive and impressive piece of glass and I went straight away and picked up my brand new 16-35F2.8 L...............I had to pay the repair cost $144 but since the 28-70 cost me $850, I left the store with an $1800 CAD lens that I had invested $1000 dollars in........not bad for $800 in savings.

As you can all imagine, I have had an enjoyable afternoon with my daughter Julia trying out this ultra-wide lens............I am impressed!!! This thing has awesome colour, sharpness, contrast, and bokeh. It is as good as the reviews I have read. I have never really played around with wide angle but it does make for interesting shots. On my 1D with its 1.3 focal factor, this lens is about 20mm..........really WIDE! (at least for me!!) Here are a couple of shots taken this afternoon at the park. (sorry for being so long winded but I am still in new lens euphoria!!):lol:

http://theteahaus.netfirms.com/Canon/nfpicturepro/albums/userpics/10001/16-35L-1D-A.jpg

Camera: Canon 1D
Shutter speed: 1/8000 sec
Aperture: 2.8
Exposure mode: Manual
Flash: External E-TTL High speed sync
Metering mode: Evaluative
Drive mode: Single frame shooting
ISO: 250
Lens: 16.0 to 35.0 mm
Focal length: 16.0mm
AF mode: One-shot AF

http://theteahaus.netfirms.com/Canon/nfpicturepro/albums/userpics/10001/16-35L-1D-B.jpg

Camera: Canon 1D
Shutter speed: 1/8000 sec
Aperture: 2.8
Exposure mode: Manual
Flash: External E-TTL High speed sync
Metering mode: Evaluative
Drive mode: Single frame shooting
ISO: 250
Lens: 16.0 to 35.0 mm
Focal length: 16.0mm
AF mode: One-shot AF

[tim]

Great luck, and wow, nice picture! The colors are great, and looks really sharp :)

[schmoelzel]

Great luck, and wow, nice picture! The colors are great, and looks really sharp :)

Yeah, I'm still in shock looking at this lens sitting in front of me!! The guys in the shop were all surprised as well since Canon doesn't normally do this kind of thing. I am thinking that someone at the lab really messed up my 28-70 and since they don't make this lens anymore..........I won't complain!! Now I just have to decide to keep this lens or sell it and buy another prime........who says Friday the 13th is bad luck!!!:eek:

[mbze430]

Hey, what are the chances of me sending in my crap lens and getting a 85mm 1.2L back? lol

Lucky indeed.

[drisley]

Wow, those pictures, especially #2, are breath-taking!
They almost look like they are taken in a studio in front of a beautiful painting!
If you plan on selling tht lens, please let me know ;)
I can offer my Tokina 17mm and Canon 28/1.8 for trade :)
There have been a few times I thought of selling these 2 lenses and consolidating with one lens, primarily the 16-35L. I often wondered about the quality, and now you have really sold me on that lens.
BTW, I always call you the "king of fill flash", and these 2 images really show your talent.
Do you do any FEC at all, or just use auto? And are you using an attachment on the flash (omnibounce, etc)?

[cdhender]

Wow dude, what luck! Congratulations. I was reading your story expecting it to end badlly and then just like that you come out on top! Just when I thought I had settled on the 17-40 I see picture like that from the 16-35. Those pictures make me want a 16-35L so badly.

Screw newspapers and brick walls, that is a lense test.

[pjd83]

Wow! Those photographs are fantastic! Superb quality.

And thats just another reason why I prefer Canon to other brands. Service like this (okay, they did lose your lens) but to give you a lens that costs nearly twice as much is superb service indeed!

EDIT> Yeah, just like CDHender I was expecting a bad ending!

[drisley]

Btw, just like when schmoelzel had us all drooling over the 50/1.4 when he posted his amazing shots, again a word of caution. Just owning this lens won't guarantee great results like these. Schmoelzel and Julia can make the 28-135mm lens look like a $1000 L lens.

Just have a look at these images (http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/ef_1635_28), all 3187 of them!
I doubt you will find even 1% of these pictures even come close to the quality of Schmoelzel's.

Btw, I have to say that Schmoelzel's experience, although in the end turned out very well, is an example of how bad Canon's service can be, especially in Canada.
I was told that my BG-E2 would be a simple fix and would only take a week or two.
It actually took well over a month, and many phone calls, and they ended up just replacing it with another faulty one (power flex issue).

[cdhender]

Drisley - great point. Sometimes I see an awesome image and the first thought is to the lense, and not to the photographer's skill. I was browsing a gallery at work today and was amazed at the photos, thinking for sure they were "L" quality. Then I found out they were all shot with the 28-135, which is a good lense, but not an L.

I'm learning, it takes more than hardware to make great photos. Nevertheless, I still want that 16-35. But to be honest, I've wanted it for awhile. Only yesterday did I "settle" on the 17-40.

[pjd83]

Yeah, its the photographer that is the most important. I've still got a lot to work on for my composition. The technical aspect I'm fine with, lenses, cameras etc. But why have the means to capture high quality sharp images if you are shooting garbage?

EDIT> My university newspaper run by students has a guy that is doing photo's in a modelling section. They get a few people to model clothes provided by one of the UK's top chains of shops. Unfortunately the guy only sees the models and not the background. Once they published photos with griffitied walls in the background. Might have looked nice apart from all the expletives that could be read clear as day. Its the photographer and his/her ability to manipulate the frame that is important.

[drisley]

It's just something I keep telling myself to keep me from buying more lenses. :D
However, pictures like that do make it tempting, especially if I can consolidate my lenses at the wide end.

[schmoelzel]

Thanks for all the kind words! I am glad that I have a place to share stories like this where people are interested!! (my mother-in-law didn't quite understand my excitement!!:))

So far this lens has exceeded all expectations. I think I was expecting my 'soft' 28-70 but it is much more. Two most interesting points thus far:

1) the weight......this thing is light. I don't mean that is doesn't feel solid but I was expecting more weight. Built like the 135F2 but definitely lighter than the 28-70.

2) the colours coming straight out of camera are to die for! As Drisley noticed, as soon as I took the first few shots I could see (yeah chimp city!!) that the backgrounds had this unreal hue to them. Mind you, I was shooting in strange weather......cloudy and raining on one side and blue-sky sunny on the other.........made for interesting light especially anthing green. Still, I think the colours here are superb.......better than expected.

As far as using FEC.......no, just set to auto. I chuckle at the moniker 'king of fill-flash'.......I am only doing what the manual says........set the flash (420EX w/Omnibounce) to hi-speed sync and fire away........works for me!! The flash has to pointed directly at the subject or you create shadow. I have read somewhere that the 1D is the best in regard to using hi-speed sync. I like it even though you do get a lot of strange looks when you're using a flash in bright sunlight!!

As far as comparing this lens to the 17-40.......I used one of those briefly last year but I didn't have a clue as to what to look for........didn't think it was bad but didn't blow me away. I think now my mind would be changed. From all I 've heard it is a great lens in the right hands. I like the larger apertures though (even though my 300F4 is on it's way as we speak)

One last thing........I think this may be the lens that finally gets me to shoot other subjects than just Julia!!! We'll see........I hope to post more shots from this lens in the next few days.........

[schmoelzel]

Just checked the date code on the lens (UT0310) which makes it March 2005!! That is pretty new in my book!!

[drisley]

Schmoelzel, thanks for the info!
I might need you to walk down to Camera Canada for me, and pick out a 16-35 for me that works as well as yours ;)
That's one unfortunate thing here. I can't just walk down to a local camera shop and test lenses :(

[schmoelzel]

Schmoelzel, thanks for the info!
I might need you to walk down to Camera Canada for me, and pick out a 16-35 for me that works as well as yours ;)
That's one unfortunate thing here. I can't just walk down to a local camera shop and test lenses :(

Yeah, I could do that for you but be aware that Camera Canada doesn't stock 90% of what they have on the website!! I recently needed a new eye-cup for my 1D and went in there thinking they must have this but I had to order one and it took a week to come in!!! They have good prices but last time I looked they had 1 L lens in the store........70-200F4!! BTW.......the shop where I took my lens for repair is a local operation called McKittrick's and they had never seen, nonetheless sold a 16-35 before!! The only place in town here that has a decent selection of lenses is good ole Henry's!!

[aam1234]

WOW these photos are unreal :shock: It's definitely the photographer's skills at play here, not the lens or the camera.

[ron chappel]

Those photos look amazing to me-the lighting is especially gentle and even.

I Know it's soft afternoon light but was there some kind of fill flash as well -gelled maybe(?)

[Toogy]

Camera Canada (Forest City Image Centre) actually has a ID Mark II on display in their store right now. I made the mistake of touching it........ now I want one :(

[pierrot]

Excellent pictures, even better than the story itself! :shock:

It seems that a talented photographer should deserve some smile from the Fortune at least some time... ;)

You lucky guy! :D

[schmoelzel]

ron chappel: thanks for compliment! I just used fill-flash.....420 attached to the top of my 1D. The late afternoon light was very odd yesterday here in London. I also used a bit of shadow/highlight tool in PSCS.

toogy: maybe we'll run into each other at Forest City sometime! See, you should only look and not touch!! Now you can start saving...........

pierrot: thanks for the compliment! I do feel lucky and this all occured on Friday the 13th!!! Go figure........

[Medic1]

Thats great!! I wonder if I send a 75-300 in they will send me back the 100-400 I am looking at buying this week....lol

shmoelzel: I thought I was the only London photog in here!! good to see another name with London under it....

Toogy: St.T is where I work......now this is definetly the first time I have seen a St.Thomas name in here......

[Jon]

Jeez. That's really rough! Did you tell them that you had a deep-seated attachment to that 28-70 and the 16-35 just wasn't the same? Maybe they'd look a little harder and find your old lens. ;{)#

[schmoelzel]

Thats great!! I wonder if I send a 75-300 in they will send me back the 100-400 I am looking at buying this week....lol

shmoelzel: I thought I was the only London photog in here!! good to see another name with London under it....

Toogy: St.T is where I work......now this is definetly the first time I have seen a St.Thomas name in here......

Been here a while ever since my G1 days!! I guess I'll watch for a guy walking down Dundas with a huge white lens!!!

[schmoelzel]

Jeez. That's really rough! Did you tell them that you had a deep-seated attachment to that 28-70 and the 16-35 just wasn't the same? Maybe they'd look a little harder and find your old lens. ;{)#

I tried and cried but they insisted that I take this brand new 16-35.........:lol:

[lancea]

Before I got my 17-40 I read quite a number of posts saying that their shots had an "almost 3D look", but I didn't see anything that showed that look to me. First impression on looking at your shots was how life-like they are to view on even this humble LCD screen. Especially the first one - it's really showed me what that 3D look is. Very nice. Hope you've framed that one!

[schmoelzel]

Before I got my 17-40 I read quite a number of posts saying that their shots had an "almost 3D look", but I didn't see anything that showed that look to me. First impression on looking at your shots was how life-like they are to view on even this humble LCD screen. Especially the first one - it's really showed me what that 3D look is. Very nice. Hope you've framed that one!

Take a look at some of the shots that Drisley gets from his 135F2 and the body-building competitions that he shoots.........there is some serious POP and 3D like stuff happening there..........:lol:

Thanks for the compliment!

[lancea]

That would explain why Governor Arnie doesn't look so lifelike now he wears a suit :mrgreen:

[guitarman3]

Wow Schmoelzel, those look like studio shots! The lighting is perfect. All with a 420ex, huh? I better think about cashing in my pop cans (we still do that here in Oregon!) and get me a light. Oh yeah, forgot about the 16-35 lens--congrats!

[drisley]

Guitarman3, the 420EX is a very capable flash. If you dont need slightly more power, and more bulk found in the 550EX or 580EX, the 420EX is a very good external flash.
Schmoelzel, thanks for the compliment :)

[JAZZ D.P.G.]

And here I was stupid enough to actually pay for mine!

Sort of explains why Canon Canada is more expensive than Canon USA. They keep replacing inferior glass with great glass when they lose something.

Yep, I like mine too.

[schmoelzel]

And here I was stupid enough to actually pay for mine!

Sort of explains why Canon Canada is more expensive than Canon USA. They keep replacing inferior glass with great glass when they lose something.

Yep, I like mine too.

Sounds like a good explanation to me!!!:lol: Seems like a really nice lens thus far.......

guitarman3: Thanks for the compliment! Better start saving those pop cans.........if you want wide, on my 1D this lens is R E A L L Y W I D E !!!

[PhotosGuy]

Great story & nice shots! Except that you really need to patch or blend some green color into that yellow growth sticking out of her head! ;-)

[schmoelzel]

Great story & nice shots! Except that you really need to patch or blend some green color into that yellow growth sticking out of her head! ;-)

Good one!! Never even noticed that but it is a portrait no-no........back to the practice board!! Thanks for the comments!:D

[drisley]

You know what? I never really noticed that.
I don't think most people notice these little "no-no's", other than photographers who have read books about it. ;)

[schmoelzel]

I'll have a closer look at Julia today with my newest lens.......300F4.... and see if she really does have a yellow pole sticking out of side of her head!!:D

[tcaran]

I'd like to throw in my two cents worth and agree the picture of Julia is stunning. I've shown it to my family and they were all amazed. I also mentioned to my wife - THIS is why people spend so much on lenses :wink: And congrats on your good fortune!

[drisley]

I also mentioned to my wife - THIS is why people spend so much on lenses :wink: And congrats on your good fortune!
If you want to justify buying a new lens, it's always best to get somebody with talent to take a great picture, show it to your wife, and say "SEE! If I had this lens look what my pictures would look like!" :lol:

[MgnDvD]

nice shots indeed...but as starnge as this sounds, my Powershot A80 produces exactly the same quality images on Program mode without any difficulty.
Now, I'm asking myself a question - do I really need XT without a high quality lense ?
Was it better to get a newer 6-8 Mpx Powershot, which has almost all the features of XT and all the settings are already there to produce sharp saturated photos, like A80 ?
The 18-55 kit lense doesn't compare to the A80 lense at all !
Any recommendations for a SHARP SATURATED not expensive lense($150-200) that is close as much as possible to the A80 ?
Thanks!

[drisley]

:lol:
I've used the A80, and it doesn't come close to producing the image quality of a 1D and 16-35L lens!
Heck, I used to have a G3, which is superior to the A80, and it doesnt even match a 300D with kit lens.
However, a very good photographer can take better pictures with a P&S than a bad photographer with a $LR (Don Ellis with his G2 is a prime example).
Most users of p&s cameras, like the A80, however prefer the oversaturated, oversharpened (although with less detail than an SLR) look that comes out of those cameras. It sounds like a p&S camera may better suit your needs.

PS. Please post these A80 images that match the quality of these 2 that schmoelzel posted?

[tcaran]

If you want to justify buying a new lens, it's always best to get somebody with talent to take a great picture, show it to your wife, and say "SEE! If I had this lens look what my pictures would look like!" :lol:

Yes. That lens in my hands would have a long way to go before it produces shots like that. Sure didn't mean to imply it's all the lens. But hey, what does my wife know? :D

[Simon Spiers]

That was worth the wait then;)
Beautifull results of a beautifull baby:p
Your daughter has the same name as my sister which is fairly uncomon over here.

[schmoelzel]

Thanks for even more kind comments and all the nice PM's that people sent me!! AS far as an A80 taking shots that turn out like that......I don't doubt it for a second. As Drisley mentioned, look at Don Ellis' shots with his G2; Pekka's original G1 gallery.......one thing you will notice though is that the DoF cannot be manipulated as easily for composition as with an SLR. Also, my 1D has a ton more resolving power than even an 8 MP P & S.......important when you decide to print big; not so important if you only print the occasional 4 X 6. I also do a lot of product shots in my teashop and I regularly get them blown up to 16 X 20 and they look great. I think the mantra here in this thread is that the equipment is secondary but does play a role in the shots that can be achieved.

[drisley]

Those were the first 2 things I noticed when I went from the G3 to the 300D... abilitity to control DOF, and improved resolving power. The 300D image could take so much more sharpening compared to G3 images. And still, DOF control is my favourite aspect of an SLR.
Btw, when are we going to see these shots of your teashop on your website?

[I Simonius]

I'll try and keep this short but <snip> (sorry for being so long winded but I am still in new lens euphoria!!):lol:

<snip>

Camera: Canon 1D
Shutter speed: 1/8000 sec
Aperture: 2.8
Exposure mode: Manual
Flash: External E-TTL High speed sync
Metering mode: Evaluative
Drive mode: Single frame shooting
ISO: 250
Lens: 16.0 to 35.0 mm
Focal length: 16.0mm
AF mode: One-shot AF


Lost your lens!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Anyway goood luck for you!
I have seen several of your pics and the one thing that really impresses me is that you have got the hang of the flash perfectly.
- can you explain your technique?
Is it only your camera that will do that high speed synch or can I do it with my 20D?
You have definitely inspired me to get a flash!

[schmoelzel]

Lost your lens!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Anyway goood luck for you!
I have seen several of your pics and the one thing that really impresses me is that you have got the hang of the flash perfectly.
- can you explain your technique?
Is it only your camera that will do that high speed synch or can I do it with my 20D?
You have definitely inspired me to get a flash!

Thanks for the compliment!! I have been getting a lot of questions concerning flash photography and the only advice I can give is to not be shy about using a flash in bright sunlight!! You might get strange looks but from my trial and error ways, it is one of the only ways to get decent looking shots in bright sunshine. My flash (420EX) gives me the choice to set it to high-speed sync and the camera responds by throwing just enought light to cover any shadows. Not sure if the 20D will work the same but I can't see why not............now go and buy that flash!!!

[drisley]

The 420EX works wonderfully well on the 20D too. The new ETTL-II is a nice improvement over the older ETTL. However, by the sounds of it, the 1D didn't need ETTL-II to produce amazing results.
Btw, it looks like Canon's loss, may not only be schmoelzel's gain, but mine as well ;)
See sig later this week ;)

[rwenglish1]

Very NICE photos, I can't believe the color and sharpness. Canon is getting over on you though, look at all the Free publicity you are giving them. Heck, I wan't one of those lens.

Besides, who said Friday the 13th was unlucky, my now Father in law, pushed my wife to get us to make a wedding date, I toll her to tell them August Friday the 13 th. 1976. That will be 29 years ago, this August the 13th.
Congrats on your lens, and what a beautiful daughter you have. rw

[I Simonius]

The 420EX works wonderfully well on the 20D too. The new ETTL-II is a nice improvement over the older ETTL. However, by the sounds of it, the 1D didn't need ETTL-II to produce amazing results.
Btw, it looks like Canon's loss, may not only be schmoelzel's gain, but mine as well ;)
See sig later this week ;)

I was thinking of getting the 580 - is there any reason not too?
e.g. are there cheaper canon flashes that do the same jiggery pokkery but just less power?

[drisley]

The 420ex will work just as well as the 550ex, and 580ex, unless you need the extra power. ETTL-II works with the 420Ex as long as your camera has it (20D, 1DMKII, 350D)
It's a great external flash to start with, and not as bulky as the other two.
Then, later if you want the ability to use multiple flashes in a master/slave fashion, get the 550ex or 580ex.

[schmoelzel]

Agree with all of the previous concerning flash (420EX, 550EX, 580EX) All very good but I believe many has too much flash and don't utilize what they have........I found that the 420EX is more than enough for what I do with flash photography.

[I Simonius]

Agree with all of the previous concerning flash (420EX, 550EX, 580EX) All very good but I believe many has too much flash and don't utilize what they have........I found that the 420EX is more than enough for what I do with flash photography.

Too late ! I got photography fever and bought the 580 this morning
(and a 17-40L!)
I blame POTN!
POTTN should get a percentage of all canon sales induced from reading this site ;)

[schmoelzel]

Too late ! I got photography fever and bought the 580 this morning
(and a 17-40L!)
I blame POTN!
POTTN should get a percentage of all canon sales induced from reading this site ;)

Alright Simon!!! Here's a link to an article that details fill-flash very well...........worth reading and then when you get your flash, go out and experiment!!:D

http://www.popphoto.com/assets/down...21200311318.pdf (http://www.popphoto.com/assets/download/821200311318.pdf)

[I Simonius]

Alright Simon!!! Here's a link to an article that details fill-flash very well...........worth reading and then when you get your flash, go out and experiment!!:D
snip[/url]

Thanks for that!