Customer making every excuse not to pay...what do/can i do?

[christyjo2]

I have never been faced with this problem yet, but im sure it will happen again, so im needing some advice. I have been doing photography professionally for about 2.5 years now and i am really starting to pick up a lot lately. So here is the problem and hopefully someone can help me with with it. Im not gonna go into detail about the story cause its a LONG one, but i have a customer that owes me $200 for a session. I have already taken the pictures. After many lies and excuses as to why i have not received the money yet, im sick of it. Its been close to 2 weeks since she was suppose to have paid me. She has lied and said a check was sent (no check arrived). She has told me her husband, who is a truck driver is going to wire her the money (this was over 2 days ago) and yet NO money. Everytime i ask her its another excuse. So my question is...what do i do? I know i can send her a bill. But what can i do legally? Can i send her to collections? I know this is probably a stupid question, but i really dont know what to do in this situation. Any insight you could give me would be much appreciated.

[Sunapollo]

Did you give her her photos ? Did you guys sign any contract (probably not ... but it's good to have in the future for your protection) If she doesn't want to pay, there really isn't much you can do ... consider it loss and save the hassle.

[picturecrazy]

If you haven't given her the photos yet, then just don't give her anything. If you have already given them to her... well... you're pretty much screwed. You can go to a collection agency, but for $200, I'd rather suck it up than have a reputation spread as a mean business person.

[christyjo2]

well i dont want to be a mean business person, but she and i have a lot of mutual friends, and i mean a WHOLE lot, and a lot of these in which are also customers. And i dont want the rep that people can get away with this either. She ended up costing me 3 appointments from rescheduling which is more money. $200 many not seem like a lot to most people, but for someone who can only shoot a couple days out of the week, it is a lot. I have 4 kids to feed. Between the 3 appointments i lost because of her and the money she owes me, thats over $500. Im just fed up!

[Jim G]

well i dont want to be a mean business person, but she and i have a lot of mutual friends, and i mean a WHOLE lot, and a lot of these in which are also customers. And i dont want the rep that people can get away with this either. She ended up costing me 3 appointments from rescheduling which is more money. $200 many not seem like a lot to most people, but for someone who can only shoot a couple days out of the week, it is a lot. I have 4 kids to feed. Between the 3 appointments i lost because of her and the money she owes me, thats over $500. Im just fed up!

Why did you throw away three appointments for this one?

[L.Morey]

Judge judy (small claims)

[Photon Phil]

Want one of us to call her and act like a collection agency?;)

Seriously sorry to hear about this.

[Nick5]

Christy.
Most business that bill customers are on 30 days.
Two weeks is not that bad considering.
Since you have mutual friends, patience may be the best in this case.
Good things will come from that.

[tim]

Patience, and apostrophes are your friends. Most people will only pay you when they get something physical in return. You probably need to change the way you work, and bill, and present the images, tell us what you do and we can help.

For now honestly there's not much you can do. Send them an invoice, put a due date on, and charge late fees if you think you can. If you don't have a contract.... you're out of luck.

[christyjo2]

(Jim G) what happened was in the 4 appointment dates that she ended up with due to rescheduling. I had 3 different clients wanting those same appointment times and since i already had her down, i asked them if they would like to schedule for another time, but they said they would just have to get back to me. So therefore i lost 3 customers for that week.

(Photon Phil) Funny that you say that lol, cause my friend Chris wants to call her and act like one but i told him to get a life lol.

(Nick 5) I understand that most people bill on 30 days, but technically she was suppose to pay before the services were even done, so that was stupid on my part. She promised there was a check in the mail and i took her for her word, which i will never do for anyone again thanks to people like her.

(tim) Funny about the apostrophes sorry, i, guess, i, was, in, a, hurry. But as far as how i USUALLY do things. My customer's pay me a deposit to hold their appointments. When they arrive to their appointments They pay me for their session up front, and then i shoot. I edit their photos within 2-3 days and have them put into an online gallery for them. I order the customer 5x7 proofs of the whole session and call them once they are in so they can take them home to look over and decide what they would like to order. Since this customer sent her sister with her child, while promising there was a check in the mail everything got kinda messed up. She was suppose to pay for the session fee, which she did not. So technically regardless of any pictures ordered, she owes me for my services and it aggravates me more than anything that she has lied through her teeth for 2 weeks. If you didnt send a check, then dont say you did. If you dont have the money...then cancel your appointment and make it for a later time.

[tim]

Couple thoughts. Deposit to book is good, balance when they turn up, good. Internet proofs, bad, they can print those - I don't care what you say, people can and will print them. Printed proofs - bad - people will make enlargements from them unless you have a watermark that actually obscures faces. A sales session is much better, i've only done a few but most people end up ordering between $500 and $1500 worth of prints. A 6x4 or 5x7 is $50, 8x12 is $100, etc. I'm not expensive compared with high end portrait photographers.

[asysin2leads]

I have decided to go w/ a face-to-face print proofing because of a couple of customers not paying, too. I charge a session fee and give a print credit. I've had 2 families who bugged the crap out of me to shoot their sessions. Well, 8 weeks later and no orders. I took their galleries off the web. They called all torqued off that I did. I told them that I would re-instate their galleries for a fee. I see one family about 3-4 times a week and they keep promising they're going to order. We'll see.

Unfortunately, Christy, almost everyone has a story like this. It's the nature of the business. People are out to get something for nothing. Best of luck with this and I hope it's a quick resolution. I would also wait a little bit longer. I know she's full of excuses and maybe to her, they are just as valid as you think they are a crock. I know your time is valuable and don't want to be cheated. However, things happen in this economy that are outside of our control. Maybe she doesn't have the money now that she did before and she would rather lie than be honest. I would meet with her and discuss payment terms. I wouldn't give her any prints until all monies are paid in full. Not only will this help out your customer, but perhaps she's going to spread the word that you helped out rather than send her to collections. It could be good business. Again, good luck with this and keep us posted.

[RDKirk]

Since she's a friend that you want to keep, all you can do is wait. However, a problem with friends is that they have an expectation of freebies--she's probably annoyed that you don't let the matter drop.

When working for friends or family, my rule is: Full price or free. Family and friends can undersand a gift, but they don't understand a cut-rate. If you make it a gift, you can do as much or as little as you want to give them. If you make them pay anything at all, they expect full service from you.

In the future, never take a step without being paid for it up front. Schedule a session, collect the money to pay for it. Show previews and take orders, collect enough money to pay for them. Deliver finals, collect the final amount. Each step in the process should pay for itself beforehand.

[christyjo2]

Couple thoughts. Deposit to book is good, balance when they turn up, good. Internet proofs, bad, they can print those - I don't care what you say, people can and will print them. Printed proofs - bad - people will make enlargements from them unless you have a watermark that actually obscures faces. A sales session is much better, i've only done a few but most people end up ordering between $500 and $1500 worth of prints. A 6x4 or 5x7 is $50, 8x12 is $100, etc. I'm not expensive compared with high end portrait photographers.


Well, i do put a huge watermark through the online proofs. I have never had a customer not order a large order before. Like i said, this is actually the very first time i have ever had this problem with anyone. I have not posted her pictures to the web for her to see, and she will not see a one of them until i get paid. It just turned into a bad situation due to mutual friends and the fact that her family and mine know each other very well.

[christyjo2]

I have decided to go w/ a face-to-face print proofing because of a couple of customers not paying, too. I charge a session fee and give a print credit. I've had 2 families who bugged the crap out of me to shoot their sessions. Well, 8 weeks later and no orders. I took their galleries off the web. They called all torqued off that I did. I told them that I would re-instate their galleries for a fee. I see one family about 3-4 times a week and they keep promising they're going to order. We'll see.

Unfortunately, Christy, almost everyone has a story like this. It's the nature of the business. People are out to get something for nothing. Best of luck with this and I hope it's a quick resolution. I would also wait a little bit longer. I know she's full of excuses and maybe to her, they are just as valid as you think they are a crock. I know your time is valuable and don't want to be cheated. However, things happen in this economy that are outside of our control. Maybe she doesn't have the money now that she did before and she would rather lie than be honest. I would meet with her and discuss payment terms. I wouldn't give her any prints until all monies are paid in full. Not only will this help out your customer, but perhaps she's going to spread the word that you helped out rather than send her to collections. It could be good business. Again, good luck with this and keep us posted.

Thanks. I think im just overly aggravated because i have never had to deal with this before. I should have known it was coming sometime or another. I just didnt expect someone i knew that well to be the one to do it. I dont want to send her to collections, but i do want her to know that just because she knows me and her cousin in one of my best friends that she is not going to just walk all over me. I have cooled down about it some. Im not even expecting to get paid. But she is ruining it for a lot of people, because im about to change a lot of things.

[christyjo2]

Since she's a friend that you want to keep, all you can do is wait. However, a problem with friends is that they have an expectation of freebies--she's probably annoyed that you don't let the matter drop.

When working for friends or family, my rule is: Full price or free. Family and friends can undersand a gift, but they don't understand a cut-rate. If you make it a gift, you can do as much or as little as you want to give them. If you make them pay anything at all, they expect full service from you.

In the future, never take a step without being paid for it up front. Schedule a session, collect the money to pay for it. Show previews and take orders, collect enough money to pay for them. Deliver finals, collect the final amount. Each step in the process should pay for itself beforehand.

Yea, i know what you mean. However, she isnt a friend of mine. I just know her. Her cousin told me she is bad about writing hot checks and im also afraid that once i do get paid, that this will happen to me. I actually have only called her about the matter once. She keeps calling me everyday with an excuse. She called me 3 days in a row telling me her husband is wiring her the money, then hours later she would call back and say "well, he cant find anywhere to wire it from." I just dont like liars. That eats at me more than anything. It doesnt help that her cousin (my friend) is telling their whole family that she is ripping me off. But that is beyond my control.

[fryefoto]

When, and if, you do get a check from her, take it to her bank to cash it. That way if it is bad you know right away and are not paying fees to your bank! Good luck!

[Chris]

When, and if, you do get a check from her, take it to her bank to cash it. That way if it is bad you know right away and are not paying fees to your bank! Good luck!

Unfortunately there are many banks now that will not cash a check like this unless you also have an account at the same bank. This really burns me up, but I've had it happen more than once.

[chakalakasp]

Just send it to a collections agency and be done with it. If she doesn't pay, at least her record will reflect (or more likely continue to reflect) that she doesn't pay her bills.

I'd understand if this were a necessity, but photography is a luxury, and one that is usually provided by small, local companies. It's no different than walking into the local grocery store and walking out with a bottle of Dom Perignon stuffed down your pants.

[tgara]

If you haven't given her the photos yet, then just don't give her anything. If you have already given them to her... well... you're pretty much screwed. You can go to a collection agency, but for $200, I'd rather suck it up than have a reputation spread as a mean business person.

Exactly right. No money, no photos. Simple as that. Just remember, its business and nothing personal. If you've given her the photos already, chalk it up to experience and move on.

Remember, there will always be deadbeat clients. I know, I have a few, and not in the photography field, and they owe much more than $200.

In the future, I would suggest the following: (1) have them sign a contract describing the services you will provide and the cost to them before you do any work; (2) get a retainer or downpayment up front. Pick a retainer amount that is reasonable -- could be 20% of the job, or 50%... whatever you feel comfortable with. My view after many years is that if they cannot come up with 20% down, they are not serious and not clients you want anyway.

[Chris]

So what happened?

[funpix]

I want to offer a different view...
the woman rescheduled multiple times, Ok so now that you have lost the others have you tried calling them to get to rebook instead of waiting for them to call you. It sounds like you are concentrating too hard on a job that is just not going to pay out.

Cut your loss there. maybe she had the best of intentions. maybe she did the session with out discussing it with her hub. i suggest you chalk it up to a learning experience.

i never rebook a client more than once --- Especially if i'm moving out a guaranteed session. Put aside your anger. Stop complaining and follow up with the others you lost. make some money and learn from the experience.

As for the cousin... tell her point blank that you do not appreciate her comments and if she really wants to help support your business suggest family and friends that pay.