580EX II Recycle Time

[especht]

Hello!

I recently purchased a 580EX II for my 50D and would like to primarily use it for fill flash in outdoor portraits.

When I first begin shooting, the flash fires very consistently and the recycle time is great. No waiting time is required between shots. After about 50 photos, the recycle time becomes very noticeable, approximately 4-6 seconds. After 100 shots, it is really noticeable.

I am using the Nimh batteries that came with the flash and bougt 8 additional Nimh batteries for when the recycle time becomes very slow. After switching batteries, I experience the same thing as mentioned above.

After consulting with my manuals and other specifications, I saw that I should be getting approximately 400 photos per battery life.

Is there a certain setup on the 580 that could give me faster recycle time? Is there batteries that could give me faster recycle time? Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Eric

[Firotechnics]

It all depends on what batteries your using there is a test thread some where but i can't seem to find it. I know someone else will post the link. To keep your recycle time up you could by the external battery pack, or bump up your iso and shoot at a lower flash power.

[gonzogolf]

That battery life estimate is also loosely based on type of use. If you are shooting in low ambient light your flash is putting out more light and probably using the focus assist beam more which would drain the batteries quicker than using it as fill on a cloudy day. Try this, get yourself a set of lithium batteries, do a shoot similar to those you tested the nimh batteries with. If the lithium drain similarly then you might have a flash issue. If not, you might consider changing your battery setup. Keep in mind that NIMH batteries dont store well, they lose charge fairly rapidly stored unused. Also all NIMH batteries are not created equal, a lot of bargain brands are rate their potential much higher than it is.

[bbvdm]

You mention "no waiting time is required between shots". Are you constantly shooting with flash? If so, the flash will heat up and automatically slow down. Eventually, it will stop altogether. The manual states you should let the flash rest after so many consecutive shots.

[Titus213]

This may help:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=677074

[especht]

You mention "no waiting time is required between shots". Are you constantly shooting with flash?

It is pretty steady shooting. There is a line of individuals waiting to get their photo taken. I try to take two photos of each as they come through the line. At the beginning of the shoot, the recycle time was working great. After about 75 shots, I was waiting a little longer. Then it got progressively longer as the shoot went on.

[gonzogolf]

It is pretty steady shooting. There is a line of individuals waiting to get their photo taken. I try to take two photos of each as they come through the line. At the beginning of the shoot, the recycle time was working great. After about 75 shots, I was waiting a little longer. Then it got progressively longer as the shoot went on.


Then you are just wearing your batteries down.

[[Hyuni]]

I just popped close to 300 shots with my 580EXII this past weekend for a photoshoot with my eneloops that weren't fully charged (completely forgot to charge them before shoot) but I was amazed to see they had survived the shoot in style!

I didn't notice any long recycle times and they are still going strong now, without recharge! (better charge them tonight though, just in case)

btw, I shot ETTL and there was decent, but not enough adequate light.

[especht]

Could somebody please share how to setup the 580 for flash fill use? I do not really need a bright flash, but rather a setup that provides enough flash for filling in shadows on the face (for example, shadows created by a hat).

[lefturn99]

One way to extend your flash life is to boost the ISO a little.

I'm still learning about ETTL II but I think I read that if you use Av mode it will default to fill. If not, decrease the flash exposure compensation. The less light, the longer the batteries will last.

[especht]

One way to extend your flash life is to boost the ISO a little.

I'm still learning about ETTL II but I think I read that if you use Av mode it will default to fill. If not, decrease the flash exposure compensation. The less light, the longer the batteries will last.

Great, thanks a lot!

[gonzogolf]

One way to extend your flash life is to boost the ISO a little.

I'm still learning about ETTL II but I think I read that if you use Av mode it will default to fill. If not, decrease the flash exposure compensation. The less light, the longer the batteries will last.

Don't decrease the flash exposure compensation at the expense of exposing the image properly just to save batteries. What would be the point in that?

[lefturn99]

Don't decrease the flash exposure compensation at the expense of exposing the image properly just to save batteries. What would be the point in that?

He was also asking about using the flash for fill. I was addressing that. Of course I was not suggesting making the batteries last longer by underexposing the image.

[Mystwalker]

I had similar problem but not to tune of 50 shots (seems awfully low) - I'm guessing, the type of battery you are using plus lighting conditions will have a big affect. I use 2700mAH rechargeables. Today, I also use Canon's battery pack - now I just have to be careful to not overheat/burnout flash.

[tim]

ISO100/F8 will wear the batteries down quickly. Raise your iso, open up the lens, and use the shutter speed to limit ambient light entering the flash.

Get a CP-E4 battery pack (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/498738-REG/Canon_1947B001_Compact_Battery_Pack_CP_E4.html/BI/2312/KBID/3114) if you need faster recharge speeds, but be careful not to burn out the flash head - though it has protection. Get a good battery charger (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMaha-Powerex-MH-C9000-WizardOne-Charger-Analyzer%2Fdp%2FB000NLUSLM%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Delect ronics%26qid%3D1225155101%26sr%3D8-1&tag=headphonerevi-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325) and some of the Powerex cells linked from that page on amazon if you want good batteries, or get some of the low discharge cells if they suit you better.

Could somebody please share how to setup the 580 for flash fill use? I do not really need a bright flash, but rather a setup that provides enough flash for filling in shadows on the face (for example, shadows created by a hat).


Av mode, FEC to -1 or 0.

[Titus213]

There is no 'fill flash' mode on the 580. You adjust the flash intensity with FEC.

[bcwang]

The 580ex II doesn't come with batteries, you must have got it in some kit offered. Do you know what brand they are? Batteries can vary quite a lot. With my collections of nimh cells, I've got a range of 2.22 -3.31sec with some outliers near the 10 second range. Eneloop work quite well in the flash, if that's not what you're using you should give it a try. I get a recycle time around 2.3 seconds with them at first, and they don't seem to noticeably get longer during my use with them. Maybe your 50 pops are all full power?

I also recently began experimenting with ni-zn cells. They are 1.6v nominal, I was a bit afraid of the higher voltage so I decided to use 3 along with a dummy cell. I was able to achieve a 2.0 sec recycle time. That is already the fastest I recorded of all batteries I've tried by quite a margin. If the 4th cell was used it would probably be much faster with the extra 33% voltage. However my flash is not in warranty so i don't want to give it a try even though Canon support said it is ok to use. They aren't actually familiar with the battery type and since I have no warranty left, if they are wrong I'm the one who would be screwed anyway.

So if you're looking for the fastest recycle times, look into ni-zn. If you want to stick with nimh, try eneloops.

[especht]

Great advice everybody, I really appreciate it. I went through "round 2" last night, bumping up the ISO and using different batteries. What a big difference from a few nights ago! I took approximately 50 more photos and the recycle time was incredible.

bcwang - I did buy this in a kit, I'm not sure off-hand what brand the batteries are. The batteries I used last night were "Radio Shack" brand of Nimh. They worked well, but I am going to purchase some eneloop in the near future.

Thanks again everybody!

[MT Stringer]

+1 for what Tim said.

I used the battery pack on the 580 EX II Friday night shooting high school football. Recycle was practically instant. I never had to wait on the flash. I was shooting in burst mode (6 fps) and would typically shoot about three - four frames, then stop.

I will admit I was shooting at a higher ISO than normal - 1250, on manual at 1/250, f/3.2 with the flash on ETTL.

This week I aim to shoot at f/3.5 - f/4 at ISO 800. That should take more flash power so I'll know more about the flash and battery pack when the game is over.

For event shooting like you were doing, I think you need a battery pack.

NOTE: I use Powerex 2700 rechargeables for the pack and 2500 Energizers in the flash. I also have a MAHA MH C800S 8 cell charger that works real well.
Mike

[H2Ohta]

http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/ (http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/)
I have found this to be the most useful site for any flash related questions. If you use AA batteries, Sony and Sanyo are very good perfomers and the quality of the battery makes a huge difference. Hope this helps.

[bcwang]

Alright, I finally decided to try the ni-zn cells in my 580ex-II. With full power pops, I was able to recycle in 1.28 seconds. Woah, that is fast. Using 8 eneloops in a CP-E4 I can reach 1.12 seconds but that is with 3 times more batteries. I'm too afraid to try the ni-zn inside the CP-E4 for now. But I imagine if it did work, it would result in some amazingly fast recycle times.

I don't think the ni-zn cells work in the original 580ex though. I tried for a few seconds, the red light started flashing intermittently and it made strange sounds so I turned it off right away.

[dmward]

The CP-E4 pack, and other external sources for battery power for 580EX and 580EXII deliver the power to the flash at a much higher voltage. I have read that the output voltage on a Quantum Turbo battery pack is 350 Volts. That's why they shorten the recycle time for the flash.

I have two CP-E4s and two Chinese knockoffs that are essentially identical.

Last Saturday I shot something like 1500 exposures in TTL with 580EXII, 580EX, each with a battery pack. toward the end of the night I checked recycle time, and they were both still fast as when fresh.

I test recycle time by switching the flash to manual 1/1 (full power) with the packs attached the recycle is about 1.5 seconds. Without the packs its about 2.5 seconds.

I have energizer 2500mA and Sanyo 2700mA NiMh for the packs and generally have entlops in the flash themselves.

When I recharged the batteries after the wedding, the recharge time suggests that they were still well over half full.

TTL the recycle is much faster and the power output is well below full power most of the time.
In that case the recycle is nearly instintanious (sp?).

[tim]

I test recycle time by switching the flash to manual 1/1 (full power) with the packs attached the recycle is about 1.5 seconds. Without the packs its about 2.5 seconds.

Wow, you're doing well, my Powerex 2700mah cells can't get near that even when freshly charged. I'd guess 1.5-2.0 seconds with a CP-E4 containing more Powerex cells.

[bcwang]

Ok, I just realized when using the CP-E4 it can still use the internal batteries in tandem. So I redid the test with fully charged internal batteries as well.

Manual 1/1 full power pop with 580exII
-eneloop in flash - 2.02 seconds
-ni-zn in flash - 1.28 seconds
-rayovac hybrid in flash + 8 eneloop in CP-E4 - 1.00 seconds

Tim,
Eneloops are much better at high current than powerex 2700 cells. I have some, though they are older, that take over 4 seconds (maybe 6-10 seconds) to charge in my flash which takes 2.02 seconds using eneloops.

dmward,
The same comment applies to you. With your cp-e4 you are getting worse recycle times than me just using ni-zn in the flash itself. It's likely the 2500-2700mah cells you're using in the CP-E4.

[tim]

bcwang, you may be interested in this post (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=7716388&postcount=6), which suggests your experience isn't the norm.

I wonder if Sys would be interested in throwing some NiZn cells into the mix, they sound interesting. Be careful you don't burn your flash head out too.

[dmward]

the Ni-Zn batteries are interesting.
I doubt that there will be a problem with them in the battery pack and flash.
Both the flash and the pack are configured in series anyway.

[bcwang]

bcwang, you may be interested in this post (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=7716388&postcount=6), which suggests your experience isn't the norm.

I wonder if Sys would be interested in throwing some NiZn cells into the mix, they sound interesting. Be careful you don't burn your flash head out too.

What do you mean not the norm? It shows in your link the eneloops charge up the flash faster than the 2700mah cells when freshly charged. By the way, my tests using 2700mah are with quite old cells from when they were introduced. They've probably degraded a lot, but I know eneloops handle higher currents than most if not all high capacity nimh cells. Also, if you're questioning the timing differences, I'm using a 580exII while that test is using a 580ex.

I don't think the 580ex will work with the ni-zn cells so SYS should probably not test them. My few seconds of on time with them were erratic so I stopped using them immediately in my 580ex.

dmward,

The concern about the battery pack is it lists a 12v output. If that's true, it is bumping the voltage of the 8 batteries up from (1.2x8=9.6v or 1.5x8=12v) to 12v. However, the Ni-zn batteries come off the charger at 1.84v each, which is (1.84v x 8 = 14.72v). I really don't know if it will handle that safely. Someone with too much money or maybe Canon themselves could test it. But I'm not going to.

[tim]

What do you mean not the norm? It shows in your link the eneloops charge up the flash faster than the 2700mah cells when freshly charged. By the way, my tests using 2700mah are with quite old cells from when they were introduced. They've probably degraded a lot, but I know eneloops handle higher currents than most if not all high capacity nimh cells. Also, if you're questioning the timing differences, I'm using a 580exII while that test is using a 580ex.

I only looked at the after 100 pops measurement, the Powerex cells and Enloops are about the same. The Enloops are best for 5 pops, but after that the Powerex recharge faster and last longer. The Powerex 2700mah cells are fine, they're still very close to top of the line.

Not sure why we're even talking about this. You're making statements that don't seem to agree with the data we have, but that's fine, whatever works for you. Both cells work fine. Enloops are best if you don't use the flash often. Powerex are best if you need more capacity. Really either will do fine for most situations.