Are these strobes powerful enough for this car studio?

[kempobmx1]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/404347-REG/Photogenic_956192_StudioMax_III_320_Watt_Second.ht ml#accessories

I'm looking to replace the two hot lights you can see in the attached image with two of the strobes which I've linked to above. I have very little gauge of what kind of power 320w/s will translate to in terms of it's ability to illuminate a large space. The studio shown in the picture is 29'x37' and will have a white curtain over the open space when shooting cars and will have a white ceiling instead of a blue one. The idea of the white ceiling and white curtain are to aid in strobe reflection and keep light from escaping uselessly.

Do you think these strobes will suffice, or am I way over or under the necessary power for a studio of that size?

Zach

[tim]

The good thing about cars is they don't move, so as long as you eliminate ambient light you can leave the shutter open and flash as many times as is needed to get the amount of light you want.

[Wilt]

Its specs in the link claims GN170 at 320 w-s, but we should assume that for use without the softbox! The arithmetic says ISO 100 gives f/22 at just under 8', and we can assume about 1 or 1.5EV loss because of the softbox.

[SkipD]

Most studio lighting I have seen for shooting automobiles starts with the equivalent of a HUGE softbox (12 by 24 feet or more) above the vehicle, probably with many light sources behind (above) the diffuser - all set up for even lighting of the softbox surface.

I seriously doubt that you can control the lighting adequately with only two small light sources and bouncing the light all around the vehicle as if it were in a giant light tent. To do the job properly, you will want a variety of lighting equipment, support equipment to position the lighting in a variety of places, etc.

In general, you want to control the lighting so that you can control all of the reflections on the car's surfaces. This is not an easy task in a studio.

[kempobmx1]

I'm not looking to take it to quite that degree.

http://www.marlboronissan.com/New-Inventory.html

Take a look at any of the shoots that are not Nissan Stock Photos and you'll see what the pictures are looking like right now. I'm not looking for perfection. I need to eliminate the yellow cast by switching from hot lights to strobes. Past that, it's ok if the reflection of the strobes can be seen on the car. I'll worry about working with that later. All I need to know is that the strobes will be able to provide the same amount of light as I'm getting in my current shots. Camera settings are non-negotiable, as I do not have the time for long exposures. I shoot at 1/50th at 500ISO at f/4.5. I will still have my 580EX II on camera as supplementary light and as a means to trigger the strobes. All the strobes really need to do is illuminate the background fully, and put some light on the car. The 580 does the rest. I do plan to eventually turn the whole ceiling into a virtual 30x40 soft box, but I'm not worrying about that just yet.

So you know, this is not an unlimited budget operation. Obviously I don't have access to the kind of money that would be needed to make my shots look like Nissan Stock Photos. Also I have to shoot each car in 15-20 minutes (26-42 shots depending on the model) so I simply don't have time to work with a tripod and long exposures. If it were up to me, I'd spend 90 minutes on each car, but it's not.

Basically I just need to know that with these lights I'll be able to get the same shots I'm getting already, but without the yellow cast from the hot lights. If they can handle that then I can work from there to make things look better.

[SkipD]

I have several comments which you should digest individually.

First of all, your color problem with the current setup could easily be resolved if you simply eliminate the Speedlite and set the camera to the appropriate white balance setting for the continuous lighting. You've been using a mix of different color lighting which is impossible to correct for.

Using a softbox on the studio lights (either on the continuous lights you have been using or new flash units) is probably doing little more than wasting light. The reason I say this is because you have the softboxes so far from the subject that there is little "softening" of the light as a result at the subject. Using your reflective surfaces (particularly the white overhead reflector) and bouncing the light off the surfaces will provide all the softening you need.

If you still wish to change the lighting to studio flash units, I would suggest that you look at using a couple of flash units in the range of 640ws power level. Do not use softboxes (discussed above). If you use studio flash units, set your shutter speed to the "max sync speed" for the camera or slightly slower. That will virtually eliminate the effect of continuous lighting on the image (which you will still need some of to allow focusing). Then, you will need to determine the proper ISO/aperture for proper exposure. You will very likely be able to stop the lens down further than f/4.5 and get a deeper depth of field as a result. Most studio flash units can be turned down if you need to use a wider aperture for a narrower depth of field.

You will NOT be able to use your Speedlite to trigger any studio flash units if the Speedlite is used in any ETTL mode. What would happen is the pre-flash from the Speedlite would trigger the studio light(s) too early to have them affect the image. I believe, but cannot prove, that if you use the Speedlite in fully manual mode along with using the camera's exposure mode set to "M" you may be able to sync the Speedlite and studio flash units together.

The largest single advantage of going to the flash sources for your lighting (beyond having a single color of lighting) will be the fact that you can use the camera hand-held and not worry about camera/lens motion. The short duration of the flash burst will "stop" any camera/lens motion.

You did not mention what the wattage of your current lighting setup is, but whatever it is/was, I still suggest the 1600ws flash units to give you more flexibilty of your choices.

[kempobmx1]

As for the thought about eliminating the Speedlite, that's definitely not an option. Most of what is lighting the cars is the Speedlite. The hot lights are currently just providing the light to allow the camera to focus, and helping to fill in some of the shadows that can be cast by the Speedlite. I'm perfectly aware that using hot lights and a Speedlight will always create two separate color temperatures. This is why I want to get strobes in place of the hot lights.

I haven't looked at many strobes as powerful as 1600ws, but I imagine that would run very high in price. The limit here is around $1000 for two strobes.

As for the Speedlite's ability to trigger the strobes, it can trigger them during normal operation, not set as a slave master-flash. All you have to do is use the camera with the Speedlite as you normally would and the strobes will fire to match.

[Stereodude]

You can get two AlienBee 1600's (http://www.alienbees.com/b1600.html) for a lot less than $1k.

[slivr]

You can get two AlienBee 1600's (http://www.alienbees.com/b1600.html) for a lot less than $1k.

... Which are 640 watt/second lights, not 1600. While I'm not sure I agree with Skip that powerful a light is necessary, you're comparing a Kiwi to a Watermelon. ;) Alternatively - If there's a $1000 budget you have the option of purchasing a larger quantity of less expensive lights but each light source adds to the complexity of your setup.

Zach - off topic, but I wish I had that studio space and setup to shoot cars in!!!

[SkipD]

... Which are 640 watt/second lights, not 1600. While I'm not sure I agree with Skip that powerful a light is necessary, you're comparing a Kiwi to a Watermelon.I made a mistake. I was thinking of my B1600 Alienbees flash units and something just didn't click when I wrote the 1600ws recommendation.

I definitely think that the primary lighting should be the studio strobes and the Speedlite should be for fill rather than the other way around.

[SkipD]

As for the Speedlite's ability to trigger the strobes, it can trigger them during normal operation, not set as a slave master-flash. All you have to do is use the camera with the Speedlite as you normally would and the strobes will fire to match.That is totally incorrect if you are using the Speedlite in ETTL mode.

You MUST use the Speedlite in fully manual mode (along with the camera in fully manual exposure mode) to make the combination of Speedlite and studio style strobes work together.

You will also want to get a light meter that can read the light from flash sources. I highly recommend the Sekonic L-358 for the purpose.

[tim]

... Which are 640 watt/second lights, not 1600. While I'm not sure I agree with Skip that powerful a light is necessary, you're comparing a Kiwi to a Watermelon. ;) Alternatively - If there's a $1000 budget you have the option of purchasing a larger quantity of less expensive lights but each light source adds to the complexity of your setup.

Zach - off topic, but I wish I had that studio space and setup to shoot cars in!!!

Hey, I resemble that remark! :p

[kempobmx1]

I like the look of the AlienBee B1600. If it's something you guys would recommend, I may go with two of those.

Skip, on my 580EX II, if you put it in ETTL mode without enabling the flash as a master flash for a slave, it doesn't do the pre-flash you're referring to. I've had experience with this when I was in school. My school's photo studio had numerous studio strobes, which could be effectively triggered using the 430EX or 580EX II in ETTL mode. They didn't trigger prematurely, but at the moment the picture was taken, and the results were good. So long as the flash is not in "master mode," it shouldn't fire a pre-flash. The pre-flash is fired in "master mode" to tell the slave what to do.

Also, I do agree with you that I would like to make it so the strobes are my primary light source and the Speedlite is just my fill and trigger. As of now though, that is totally not the case.

[kempobmx1]

Slivr, trust me, it's really nice. I spend my days driving GTRs, Zs, and other cars, taking pictures in a relatively nice studio. Also I get to use the studio for personal use if I want. It's great.

[tim]

Skip, on my 580EX II, if you put it in ETTL mode without enabling the flash as a master flash for a slave, it doesn't do the pre-flash you're referring to. I've had experience with this when I was in school. My school's photo studio had numerous studio strobes, which could be effectively triggered using the 430EX or 580EX II in ETTL mode. They didn't trigger prematurely, but at the moment the picture was taken, and the results were good. So long as the flash is not in "master mode," it shouldn't fire a pre-flash. The pre-flash is fired in "master mode" to tell the slave what to do.

You're wrong, Skip's right, I know from theory and experience. Ask anyone.

Any strobes that trigger correctly when the flash is on ETTL are either very quick or have circuitry to ignore a preflash.

[jra]

Yep, there is always a pre-flash in ETTL mode to judge exposure. That's why you can see the flash fire through the viewfinder just before the mirror flips up, that's the pre-flash.

[kempobmx1]

Ok. I've definitely had it work, but I couldn't tell you what lights were being used or what the camera or flash settings might have been. In any case, I can always set the flash to manual if ETTL doesn't work, which apparently it won't.