Youth sports photography how-to???

[annephoto]

Hi all, I need some advice!!

My business of the last 10+ years has focused solely on horse sports. Recently, I've found my spring/fall seasons to be pretty slow in equestrian events and I wanted to try and branch out during those times.
I thought kids sports would be fun thing to try, and many of my friends with kids have said they've never seen anyone doing pro action photography at games. And I can't find more than one company in my entire area that seems to be doing it.
How does one get access to these events?? I've seen that many leagues have contracts, etc... is there any easy way to know who to contact? Find info about when games are occuring, etc?
I don't want a contract... I just want to shoot at games in the area when I'm free.
I haven't had too much luck with google.
Any advice on how to get this rolling would be soooo appreciated!

[wfcs1962]

I have been shooting a youth football league for 15 years I got started with film cameras and jumped to digital. The action shots have never been contracted to anyone with any of the teams that our Bulldogs play in. I have been contacted by a few teams in the league to cover their homecoming games. If you talk to someone from the league I bet they would be thrilled to have you there. parents and kids love to see the action shots they cant get. I post on a website and sell for a reduced price because I have a regular trade job and I just love to do it.
Try looking up their e teamz page if they have one..most do and email the contact

[vetkrazy]

If you don't want a contract why do you want to shot the games?

As for who to talk to, contact the league president or other officer. Go to a game and ask a parent or coach. Watch the local newspaper for sign up dates and go there to talk to league officers. I can not speak for other areas but our leagues require credentials from the league to be on the field. Both for insurance issues and to keep unknowns away from the kids ( what can I say, we live in a sick world ).

If you hope to make a little money from actions shots, you are on the right track. You will make little money. After sign ups, league fees and pictures.etc. etc. etc. most parents today won"t spend much on action shots. T&I is where to go in youth sports.

[asysin2leads]

The leagues around us require sideline passes in order to shoot from the field. I had to provide a certificate of insurance to prove that I had insurance. I'm sure not all of them require that, but you may have to. My advice would be to contact the president of the local league. I don't have a contract between the league and myself. I do upload my images to my galleries (on Exposure Manager) and sell them. I've had quite a few orders in just the past 2 weeks.

Be prepared for the not-so-fast-action of youth sports. If you get into the upper youth leagues (U15), then they will be much faster than say the candy league soccer. Get on their level. If you're shooting U15 game, then standing is ok, but if you're shooting a younger league, be prepared to kneel.

Good luck with getting this going. Keep us updated and make sure you post your results.

[tmalone893]

T&I is where to go in youth sports.

+1^^

I love doing the action shots and made a fair amount of money just taking pictures at games and handing out my cards. However, I made more money in two months doing T&I then I did all year for the action shots.

That being said, the action shots lead to many of the T&I sessions. Talk to everyone involved including the parents on the sidelines.

[Mike R]

+1^^

I love doing the action shots and made a fair amount of money just taking pictures at games and handing out my cards. However, I made more money in two months doing T&I then I did all year for the action shots.

That being said, the action shots lead to many of the T&I sessions. Talk to everyone involved including the parents on the sidelines.

Agree. Action shots had led to 4 out of 6 teams that I shoot for, giving me the T&I job. One team explained it this way " You do a great job with the hard stuff that we want to give you the easy job to." These teams don't even want a kickback.

Shooting the T&I for a HS football team is the most profitable.
48 players/48 pre paid orders. Cheerleaders are next 27 girls/27 prepaid orders.

Another way to increase income from action shots is to sell the team a slideshow for their team banquet. I start to build a show after the first game, by the end of the season it's done.

[DDCSD]

Another way to increase income from action shots is to sell the team a slideshow for their team banquet. I start to build a show after the first game, by the end of the season it's done.

Mike, any chance of seeing one of your slideshows? I'm thinking of starting to offer slideshows, but I'm not sure just how to go about it.

[Mike R]

Mike, any chance of seeing one of your slideshows? I'm thinking of starting to offer slideshows, but I'm not sure just how to go about it.
PM sent

[asysin2leads]

Another way to increase income from action shots is to sell the team a slideshow for their team banquet. I start to build a show after the first game, by the end of the season it's done.

I use ProShow Gold for my slideshows and Triple Scoop Music for the music. This sort of thing fell in my lap a couple of years ago with soccer and has been a pretty profitable item. The coach gets a free slideshow, but the parents order them. It has worked well for me so far.

[Mike R]

I use ProShow Gold for my slideshows and Triple Scoop Music for the music. This sort of thing fell in my lap a couple of years ago with soccer and has been a pretty profitable item. The coach gets a free slideshow, but the parents order them. It has worked well for me so far.

I started with Gold but switched to Producer, you can do so much more with it. I also have purchased their Style Packs for more options along with their Mediapack "Students and Grads"

I'd like to know what you charge the parents for the slideshow. I charge $265 for a 20 min show. Includes one copy and I run it in an endless loop at the banquet. Set up projector, press play, then enjoy the banquet.

On Triple Scoop, I found a song called Red Letter Day, it's awesome for sports and has lyrics. I use in each show. It works really well if the team made it to the State Championship, even better when they win it.
Triple Scoop is expensive but it has the best selection of royalty free music.
I had purchased 10 songs and got them for $40 each.

[CatchingUp]

I started with Gold but switched to Producer, you can do so much more with it. I also have purchased their Style Packs for more options along with their Mediapack "Students and Grads"

I'd like to know what you charge the parents for the slideshow. I charge $265 for a 20 min show. Includes one copy and I run it in an endless loop at the banquet. Set up projector, press play, then enjoy the banquet.

On Triple Scoop, I found a song called Red Letter Day, it's awesome for sports and has lyrics. I use in each show. It works really well if the team made it to the State Championship, even better when they win it.
Triple Scoop is expensive but it has the best selection of royalty free music.
I had purchased 10 songs and got them for $40 each.

I must live in an extreme rural area, economic wise- can't imagine people paying that for a 20 minute clip. How many of those do you sell?

[Mike R]

I must live in an extreme rural area, economic wise- can't imagine people paying that for a 20 minute clip. How many of those do you sell?

I shoot for 5 teams at one HS. The football team bought the first one, fortunately it was a year they won the State championship (my first yr with them) When parents that had kids playing other sports saw it. That was all it took for them to want it also. A 20 min show has close to 200 slides, if not more, and a lot of effects. Anything over 20 min and people get bored watching it. I give them a copy, in a DVD case with a nice cover. The label is Lightscribed onto the CD and I allow them to make copies to distribute. Some teams sell it. other just make copies and give them to the Seniors. If they want me to make multiple copies, it's $30 each because of the time involved.

[bobbyz]

Shooting the T&I for a HS football team is the most profitable.
48 players/48 pre paid orders. Cheerleaders are next 27 girls/27 prepaid orders.


Mike,

Are you the official photog for the school or they have some one else (big companies)? Just wondering on how to get into T&I with schools. I shoot action but only as a hobby.

[Mike R]

The schools up here use to use LifeTouch but have left them and gone with local,established photographers. I'm not the official school photographer at the schools where I shoot action. I got my start by approaching the booster club at a new HS and just wanted to let them use me as a fund raiser, I offered 10%. When the football team in a different town (no booster club) needed to replace their photographer. I was recommended to them.
Since then, I shoot for 5 teams there and it's much more profitable than the one where I started. I also do not give any of those teams a kickback.

A place to start is with the AD at the school you want to shoot at. He can tell you who has the responsibility to approve you. Be sure that you have gear that can handle this type of work. For outdoors, I suggest a minimum of a 70-200 f/2.8, don't need IS, also pick up a TC for daytime games. I use an 85 f/1.8 when shooting indoors (at f/2.2) because the lighting is terrible and they will not allow flash. I have a 580exII which I can use for night football games only.

It's been said by myself and others here that there is not a lot of money to be made in action shots. So it's important to try and get the T&I business as well. You also need to find other ways to make money off the action shots, such as the slide shows I mentioned above.

Be careful, your "hobby" can keep you out 5 nights a week, :lol:
I've taken vacation time form my day job to be able to attend games which are early.
It becomes an addiction, which is also fueled by the great folks here at POTN.

Best of luck and let us know what happens.

[bobbyz]

Mike,

Appreciate your quick and thorough response.

[CatchingUp]

I will echo the statements about the money being in the T&I gigs vs. action. And I too, started out just enjoying the hobby of action shooting. But let me tell you what has helped for me ( It doesn't hurt that I have been a teacher here for years and just recently got back in to my photography when I moved in to an 'empty nest' season here at home) -

I post my action shots on my website simply for the pure joy of sharing my work with the kids and their families. I even encourage them to download the 4x6 images and tell them they can make their own prints. No one else around here is doing anything like this. You should see the hit counter on my site spin after a big game or local event.

I get so much positive feedback from people that it is overwhelming at times. And before anyone gets bent out of shape that I 'give' my shots away in that fashion - let me tell you how it has paid off-

1- the increase and repetitive traffic to my site has generated numerous wedding shoots, family portraits, engagmenet shoots, senior portrait shoots, etc.

2- the AD at the school did away with Life Touch doing the T&I shots and has me doing it for all the teams, year round in our district.

3- I get more parents ordering posters from me now and since I have my own templates set up, they just tell me which images and from which game so I have a catalog, on line, so to speak. for them to select what they want. And this has become a nice money maker for me.

I had to laugh, and agree with this 'hobby' becoming an addiction. But there is no denying it pays for itself. Since I enjoy the action shooting so much, I see the posting of them as a great promotional tool for me. I got kids all over who c/p my images (that have a nice border trim with my logo/site on the edge) and they plaster them all over their myspace/facebook pages.

I free lance for two papers in the area now and over the past three years, I am getting more and more calls.

It's worked for me, sure sure. :-)

Don't go in to it with trying to turn a profit so soon. Just have fun, hone your craft, and in time, the doors will open.

[bobbyz]

Thanks Tony.

[Sibil]

Interesting thread.

I am doing most of what everyone is talking about, except selling anything, or having a web page. I do the action shots, team shots, make the slideshows (using Proshow Producer), distribute CDs and DVDs, all for free, etc etc. I am doing it purely out of fun, and becuase all my kids are into sports and my wife is a coach. It statrted by just shooting my own kids but more and more, parents, coaches, and a League Director ask for shots of all the kids. Strangers ask for my business card or how they can buy my shots.

I am wondering if I am headed in the direction that most of you seem to have ended up; that is, having to set up a website and start making some side money. Hummmmmm .......

[CatchingUp]

Interesting thread.

I am doing most of what everyone is talking about, except selling anything, or having a web page. I do the action shots, team shots, make the slideshows (using Proshow Producer), distribute CDs and DVDs, all for free, etc etc. I am doing it purely out of fun, and becuase all my kids are into sports and my wife is a coach. It statrted by just shooting my own kids but more and more, parents, coaches, and a League Director ask for shots of all the kids. Strangers ask for my business card or how they can buy my shots.

I am wondering if I am headed in the direction that most of you seem to have ended up; that is, having to set up a website and start making some side money. Hummmmmm .......

Get a web site up and then get ready....

[Sibil]

Get a web site up and then get ready....

Yeah, I am thinking maybe I should search the POTN threads to see what would be a simple/workable website approach for a noob like me.

[S.Horton]

I have done a bit of it, and researched it in the past.

Here's the best single thread I found on the subject. Heed the advice, and you can make some $$.

http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=30823

Now, what to shoot?

Here's where I think the money is:
1. Hockey
2. Gymnastics
3. Swimming
4. Horse shows
5. 4H shows
6. Youth track racing (cars, ATVs, etc.)
...........

Basically, anything where the price of your services is LOW when compared to the outlay of the parents for the child to participate -and- shooting the event requires some actual skill (or risk to your person).

Advice you may not agree with, but I've watched this work time and again -- Shoot HD video, sell the DVDs with slips parents fill out right at the event. They sell quickly, and better than the stills.

What you must have: Help from the organization promoting two things -- That you'll be there, and post-event follow-up to drive orders. To get that, the event "owners" are going to want a slice of your sales.

Good luck!

BTW, welcome to POTN.

[kgauger30]

Sibil,

I just found a great little gem it is free, unless you make a sale, then it is 15% of sale. It is backprint.com. I am currently a SmugMug customer, but may use this on the side as well for my team and individual shots..

Good luck and remember NEVER give away your prints. They cost you money... so you are pretty much paying them to have a picture of their child. I am not sayiing charge alot, just charge something :)

[CatchingUp]

the younger the kids, the more you'll sell. Or so it seems.

[Sibil]

Sibil,

I just found a great little gem it is free, unless you make a sale, then it is 15% of sale. It is backprint.com.

Thanks for the link.

My appologies to the OP for jumping in the thread. Now back to the original Qs

[Thorrulz]

What exactly is a T&I?

[DDCSD]

What exactly is a T&I?

Team and Individual photos.

Otherwise known as picture day! :lol:

[DDCSD]

Here's the best single thread I found on the subject. Heed the advice, and you can make some $$.

http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=30823



That post from Dave Amorde is out-freakin-standing! Wish I had seen that before I started doing this.

[Mike R]

That post from Dave Amorde is out-freakin-standing! Wish I had seen that before I started doing this.

If I read it before getting addicted I wouldn't be planning which games I'm going to 3-5 nights a week from Mid Sept- Mid May. With the occasional Saturday game/event. But each season I improve and sales increase and that only feeds my addiction. Come to think of it, If I read that post before I started I wouldn't be up now (1:25am) typing when I need to be up at 5:30 to get ready for my day job. Well, at least my addiction forces me to get outdoors.

[S.Horton]

That post from Dave Amorde is out-freakin-standing! Wish I had seen that before I started doing this.

Yeah, it is spot-on!

I can't recall the other thread, but it was on SS as well, and it was by a photog company owner on Long Island who's been in the biz of youth sports, large-scale, for a couple of decades -- Very similar advice, but with a few war stories to boot (such as printer failure in the field, etc........)

[annephoto]

Wow, everyone thanks so much for the response.

I'm surprised, though, that everyone agrees there's not much to be made with the action. A few of the moms I talked to said parents were hiring studios to come to games just to shoot their kid playing.
I can't seem to find one company in the area doing it on spec. I got kind of excited about that, but we all know one thing for sure.... if there's a lot of money to be made shooting something, it'll be hard to get your foot in.

I'm going to give it a whirl though. Already have the equipment and website, so I have nothing to lose. What's a T&I, by the way?
Is that the team posed photo day?
Anne

[Mike R]

T&I is the Team photo and individual shots of each player. Usually pre paid for. I give them an order form about 2 weeks before the scheduled day. On the day of the pictures the kids bring the forms back with a check.

[S.Horton]

Wow, everyone thanks so much for the response.

I'm surprised, though, that everyone agrees there's not much to be made with the action. A few of the moms I talked to said parents were hiring studios to come to games just to shoot their kid playing.
I can't seem to find one company in the area doing it on spec. I got kind of excited about that, but we all know one thing for sure.... if there's a lot of money to be made shooting something, it'll be hard to get your foot in.

I'm going to give it a whirl though. Already have the equipment and website, so I have nothing to lose. What's a T&I, by the way?
Is that the team posed photo day?
Anne

If nobody in your area is shooting action, it is either because the pros around you know it isn't profitable, or they don't know how to do it.

I have had a few 'focus player' gigs -- If you do try it, then shoot a couple and track how many hours you spend on each one -- After that, adjust your price. ;)

[lsman]

Be careful, your "hobby" can keep you out 5 nights a week, :lol:
I've taken vacation time form my day job to be able to attend games which are early.
It becomes an addiction, which is also fueled by the great folks here at POTN.




Well said. LOL.

[Sibil]

Interesting thread.

I am doing most of what everyone is talking about, except selling anything, or having a web page. I do the action shots, team shots, make the slideshows (using Proshow Producer), distribute CDs and DVDs, all for free, etc etc. I am doing it purely out of fun, and becuase all my kids are into sports and my wife is a coach. It statrted by just shooting my own kids but more and more, parents, coaches, and a League Director ask for shots of all the kids. Strangers ask for my business card or how they can buy my shots.

I am wondering if I am headed in the direction that most of you seem to have ended up; that is, having to set up a website and start making some side money. Hummmmmm .......

Yeah I am bringing this thread back since the title is so fitting. Today, a league director asked me if I would consider setting up my own website and promoting selling bball shots for a cut back to the league. Only action shots. There is no T&I in this league. I was also told that more than half the parents aren't into on-line ordering and I should find a way to sell prints directly before/after games.
My head is spinning, thinking if I should go for it. Everyone in this thread said that there is not much money in action shots.

[paraphysis]

Ok-- I give. What's T&I?

[paraphysis]

Sorry- scratch that-- went back and saw the post with an explanation.

[Sibil]

Ok-- I give. What's T&I?

Team and Individual

[Big K]

Yeah I am bringing this thread back since the title is so fitting. Today, a league director asked me if I would consider setting up my own website and promoting selling bball shots for a cut back to the league. Only action shots. There is no T&I in this league. I was also told that more than half the parents aren't into on-line ordering and I should find a way to sell prints directly before/after games.
My head is spinning, thinking if I should go for it. Everyone in this thread said that there is not much money in action shots.

Do they give you any sort of special access? Are they going to actively promote your sales efforts? Are they going to provide the table and someone to staff it during the games? Are they going to allow you to subtract the costs of all the proof materials you will need to provide from their cut since most of that material never gets sold? Are they going to allow you to deduct the cost of the website from their cut?

If not, I would not waste my time. All they are trying to do is generate money from your work without them doing anything for it and placing all the costs on you. In the end, the only one's who will make any money is them.

I would suggest pushing them to allow you to do T&I work. It is by far more profitable especially if the kids are younger.

Sports leagues, like telemarketers, will suck every freakin penny out of you if you let them. Be very leery of any league director that approaches you with an idea that makes them money vs viewing it as you providing a bonus service for their parents and kids.

[Sibil]

Do they give you any sort of special access?
All the access I want
Are they going to actively promote your sales efforts?
They asked for my suggestions on how to promote sales.
Are they going to provide the table and someone to staff it during the games?
Yes
Are they going to allow you to subtract the costs of all the proof materials you will need to provide from their cut since most of that material never gets sold?
They asked that I work all the numbers and give them a final number on what we should sell 4x6's for.
Are they going to allow you to deduct the cost of the website from their cut?
That'll be my cost
If not, I would not waste my time. All they are trying to do is generate money from your work without them doing anything for it and placing all the costs on you.
I don't think so. They just don't know how to approach it. I have shot for them on valunteer/favor bases, since I am not that good. I have made slideshows for end of season activities and I was told there was a lot of interest to buy prints and the slideshow. They don't know how to generate sales from the interest and asked for my suggestions.
I would suggest pushing them to allow you to do T&I work. I haven't thought about T&I since I am not sure it's within my abilities. That's something I need to read on.
It is by far more profitable especially if the kids are younger.
The age group is 7-14 with about 200+ players. It is new league growing every season.
Sports leagues, like telemarketers, will suck every freakin penny out of you if you let them. Be very leery of any league director that approaches you with an idea that makes them money vs viewing it as you providing a bonus service for their parents and kids.
The Director is a friend of mine and there is no hidden agenda in his questions. I am asked to figure it out for them. I need to figure a setup so that it's worth my and their trouble, keeping in mind that I have been doing most of this work for free anyway.
I am also thinking long-term being that my kids are into sports and as they grow and I spend lots of time on court-side and field-side snaping, this might turn into something more solid and steady and I should set something up that is more permament with conservative growth. If the sales pay for my gear, I'll be a happy kid :)

[Big K]

Sibil,

Thanks for the detailed response.

I am off for a busy day of volleyball state tourney fun but have some additional thoughts I will send you later tonight.

[Sibil]

I am off for a busy day of volleyball state tourney fun but have some additional thoughts I will send you later tonight.

Thanks Kevin. Your feedback is always appreciated.

[Sibil]

I thought I should re-state my question differently.

Parents want to buy but most don't go on-line to buy.

We discussed three oprions. Keep in mind that we have zero experience in this stuff.

1. Pick/Print pictures from one weekend and deliver to games the next weekend in the hopes that we pick the stuff that will sell. We will be running the chance that the printed stuff won't sell and we'll be stuck with it. This is the easiest option with the highest risk.

2. Setup laptop/monitor/printer and market/print/sell direct on location. Besides hardware, I have no clue what kind of software I'd need to display, etc. Any ideas? I provide the laptop/monitor/software, and the league buys the printer

3. Setup website. Take paper orders on location (with payment) and process them with direct shipping to parents from the website, allowing parents to order from website themselves if they want to. On location paper ordering would have a higher price than parents who order directly themselves. I pay for the website.

The league said they'll provide volunteers to help with all three options.

So, in your experience, which options would work better? What should the pricing be for 4x6s which is all we want to sell.

Thanks for any help

Cheers