Using the beauty dish - School me

[sdipirro]

I'm a new owner of the Kacey beauty dish, similary to the 22" Speedotron and Mola in its lighting characteristics. I have seen some awesome and flattering beauty dish portraits in this forum, and after taking some test shots, I realize I have a lot to learn about using one to its full potential. Most of my experience is with softboxes.

There are a number of "variables" with the beauty dish:

- Distance between deflector disc and flash tube
- Leaving the modelling light in place or removing it (with strobes)
- Color deflector disc (white, silver, gold, translucent, etc..)
- Using a sock or not to soften the light
- Angle of placement, relative to subject
- Height of placement, relative to subject
- Distance between subject and beauty dish
- Use of fill when using such a directional light

Given my limited subject availability, making it difficult to try all the combinations I'd like to try, I figure the experienced experts here can provide me with some good starting points to achieve some flattering results, and I can work from there to do more experimenting.

For instance, Jerry Kacey said he likes to position the solid white deflector disc about 1-1.5" from the flashtube. I'm experimenting with a strobe that has a modelling lamp. So I removed the lamp and positioned the disc at that distance to start, using only the beauty dish for lighting. I like that you can really create dramatic shadows by repositioning the dish even slightly, but the angles I've tried so far have not yielded very flattering shots of my subjects, and that's where I could use some help. I've seen some fantastic beauty dish portraits here. So school away! Others may benefit from this also.

[J Kacey]

Steve.... take the time to try all the combinations. Learn what works for you and what you like. Learn what effect you will get by placing the BD combined with a reflector in a certain position. Example (http://www.photoworkshop.com/static/lightcage/index.html)

Maybe start with a simple butterfly type lighting setup then modify the placement of the flashes to make the subjects facial structure most flattering. Add optional rim lights to separate subject from the background..... Add a background light.... play with gelling background light and so on. The possibilities are endless
http://kacey.smugmug.com/photos/634757149_vwx7H-XL.jpg

[sdipirro]

Thanks, Jerry. I do plan on trying as many combinations as possible, but it's helpful to have a starting point, and I've seen some excellent, flattering potraits here, and I thought I could benefit from that experience. My assumption is that I shouldn't just assume a beauty dish is like a softbox, and I should try some different things. Your butterfly lighting example is a good one for me to try. If anyone has any favorite beauty dish configurations, I'm all ears and would like to try those as well.

[george m w]

Let's bump this thread back to life ! I also would like to see how folks are using their beauty dish.

[Cathpah]

Let's bump this thread back to life ! I also would like to see how folks are using their beauty dish.


Close! As close as I can get it to the model, without it being in the frame.

I enjoy having it up a good bit above the model, but not so high as to give "raccoon eyes"

If you want simple, flattering light, Jerry's recommendation to do clamshell lighting is a good idea.

see here:

http://modelmayhm-7.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/090613/22/4a3487351bdbf.jpg

[george m w]

Cathpah,
Thanks ! That's a nice shot....I'll try that.

[sdipirro]

Well, this was one of my first test shots using the Kacey BD and the clamshell approach Jerry suggested. The only light is an Elinchrom strobe with the beauty dish. The white deflector disc is at its closest position to the flash tube, maybe 1-1.5" from it. There's no grid, but I have a diffusion sock over the dish. A white reflector is basically in her lap to fill in harsh shadows below her chin. I metered under her chin, and given the high position of the beauty dish, this was a mistake because you can see the hot spot on her forehead. I don't find this light as flattering as, say, a large softbox because I'm not sure that the shadows it creates are going to be flattering on some subjects (like my wife here).

[J Kacey]

I would try without the sock.....

[jdear]

Most uses for the Beauty dish are for beauty-shots indoors, with the BD on-camera axis, but higher up and using a second light / reflector for the beauty / clamshell lighting.

The reason for using a Beauty dish is that when the key light is placed at the models forehead, the forehead becomes a hotspot of light if you used any other light modifier, making it brighter than the eyes and a distraction. The central deflector of the BD creates a dead-zone in the middle of the lighting pattern when the dish is in close eleviating this problem.

Generally you want the light to hit the eyes. (so you can see a slight catchlight) Anything higher and you will then see a shadow cast from the eyebrows down over the eyes. You can position it for different shadow effect. Alot of users place it on the same axis as the nose, and others use it slightly off-camera to get more dimension.

Generally to get the BD look you want the light roughly 1-2x the diameter of the dish away from the subject. This equates to roughly 2-6 feets depending on the size of the dish. The further you move the dish away, the more specular the light is, and the less soft its lighting pattern is.

Using the BD with grids is another versatile look of the BD. It helps pronounce the beautiful BD falloff and control light. Often used when using the BD as a hairlight, rim-light or even a main-light for a specific look. (i.e. falling light onto the subjects face, and not as much on the rest of her body etc.)

If you bring the BD in really close you can almost emulate the ring-light effect.

If you use a silver BD, Id diffuse it with a sock and then feather (tilt the dish in an extreme manner) to control the fall-off. Also if you tilt the dish like this, the bulb often is no longer blocked by the central deflector and this can give a bit more pop to your light. i.e. the light peers out from behind the deflector.

I use a large silver dish outdoors with a diffusion sock. A smaller white BD is used without the sock for indoor shots. If im shooting full length then ill use the sock still. It doesnt quite turn the BD into a small softbox due to the light patten which comes out from it, but it is still a soft lightsource which Im partial too. You dont also have to contend with wind issues etc, outdoors when using a BD vs softbox, which is another reason its my chosen light modifier.


Generally you want your deflector to be 1-1.5" away from the top of your flash bulb as mentioned previously, to allow enough heat to dispense from the flashtube, and also throw light back into the dish in a more focused pattern.

Some manufacturers, such as the MOLA use translucent Opal discs, or perforated (PAD) central deflectors which still let some light through (the PAD uses the circles of confusion principle) and give a beautiful look, without the dead doughnut catchlight in the subjects eyes.

Have a play and enjoy your new mod!

Jonathan

[OneStrobe]

Thanks for the awesome write up jdear!

I just received my Kacey Beauty Dish today and can't wait to try it out :) Hopefully this thread stays alive long enough for me to be able to use this thing properly.

[BCRose]

I just read an article by Will Crockett over at ShootSmarter.com and he says that the 'sweet spot' distance for a BD is the same as the diameter. So placing a 22" disk 22" away from the subject is what he recommends.

[lukeap69]

Nice discussion. Subscribing...

[Psychobiker]

Likewise. It's high time I ventured into using one!

[sdipirro]

Yes, thanks for all the info, jdear. I appreciate that. Sounds like my test shot was on the right track. The BD was pretty much positioned correctly but probably should be slightly lower to not cast as strong an eyebrow shadow...and moved closer to the subject. I tried to get it close, but I know I wasn't 2 feet away. It was more than that. I should try it without the sock next time too. Thanks again.

[Alejandro Sandoval]

Set Up...

http://i29.tinypic.com/301258g.jpg

Photo

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2547/3908423678_160d689108_o.jpg

[Psychobiker]

Cheers Aztech! Moving to Canada in November for (hopefully) longer than my year's visa. Might cross paths! Great explanation of use of the dish.

[Alejandro Sandoval]

Cheers Aztech! Moving to Canada in November for (hopefully) longer than my year's visa. Might cross paths! Great explanation of use of the dish.


Give me a Holla when u get here...are you ready for the winter ???? lol

[Psychobiker]

Snow boots and down-stuffed jacket at the ready.

[BCRose]

Cheers Aztech! Moving to Canada in November for (hopefully) longer than my year's visa. Might cross paths! Great explanation of use of the dish.

Canada is such a small place I am sure you will meet up somewhere along the line...Kidding.

Which part are you planning on moving to? East/West/In between? I suggest SuperNatural BC for decent weather and spectacular beauty.

[sdipirro]

OK, so now I'm a little baffled. Obviously, the model repositioned herself from the setup shot, but I'm assuming the setup shot is for the general idea. I see a sock on the BD, and the distance from the subject looks to be several feet away. So based on the setup shot, it's not all that different from what I did, but the lighting is much better in your shot. The shadow under her jawline is what I would expect, but is there a fill light or reflector to camera right?

[Psychobiker]

:D Montréal primarily, but I'll be all over the place in search of work. Electronics / RF engineering.

[abdul10000]

Most uses for the Beauty dish are for beauty-shots indoors, with the BD on-camera axis, but higher up and using a second light / reflector for the beauty / clamshell lighting.

The reason for using a Beauty dish is that when the key light is placed at the models forehead, the forehead becomes a hotspot of light if you used any other light modifier, making it brighter than the eyes and a distraction. The central deflector of the BD creates a dead-zone in the middle of the lighting pattern when the dish is in close eleviating this problem.

Generally you want the light to hit the eyes. (so you can see a slight catchlight) Anything higher and you will then see a shadow cast from the eyebrows down over the eyes. You can position it for different shadow effect. Alot of users place it on the same axis as the nose, and others use it slightly off-camera to get more dimension.

Generally to get the BD look you want the light roughly 1-2x the diameter of the dish away from the subject. This equates to roughly 2-6 feets depending on the size of the dish. The further you move the dish away, the more specular the light is, and the less soft its lighting pattern is.

Using the BD with grids is another versatile look of the BD. It helps pronounce the beautiful BD falloff and control light. Often used when using the BD as a hairlight, rim-light or even a main-light for a specific look. (i.e. falling light onto the subjects face, and not as much on the rest of her body etc.)

If you bring the BD in really close you can almost emulate the ring-light effect.

If you use a silver BD, Id diffuse it with a sock and then feather (tilt the dish in an extreme manner) to control the fall-off. Also if you tilt the dish like this, the bulb often is no longer blocked by the central deflector and this can give a bit more pop to your light. i.e. the light peers out from behind the deflector.

I use a large silver dish outdoors with a diffusion sock. A smaller white BD is used without the sock for indoor shots. If im shooting full length then ill use the sock still. It doesnt quite turn the BD into a small softbox due to the light patten which comes out from it, but it is still a soft lightsource which Im partial too. You dont also have to contend with wind issues etc, outdoors when using a BD vs softbox, which is another reason its my chosen light modifier.


Generally you want your deflector to be 1-1.5" away from the top of your flash bulb as mentioned previously, to allow enough heat to dispense from the flashtube, and also throw light back into the dish in a more focused pattern.

Some manufacturers, such as the MOLA use translucent Opal discs, or perforated (PAD) central deflectors which still let some light through (the PAD uses the circles of confusion principle) and give a beautiful look, without the dead doughnut catchlight in the subjects eyes.

Have a play and enjoy your new mod!

Jonathan



excellent explanation

[abdul10000]

Close! As close as I can get it to the model, without it being in the frame.

I enjoy having it up a good bit above the model, but not so high as to give "raccoon eyes"

If you want simple, flattering light, Jerry's recommendation to do clamshell lighting is a good idea.

see here:

http://modelmayhm-7.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/090613/22/4a3487351bdbf.jpg

how close was the model to the background, pretty close, correct?

[Tareq]

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8213/a00008192.jpg

[Cathpah]

how close was the model to the background, pretty close, correct?

nope....about 10' away.

[abdul10000]

nope....about 10' away.


what do you have lighting the background?

[abdul10000]

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8213/a00008192.jpg

why did you over process this picture, is this a look you were aiming for?

[Tareq]

why did you over process this picture, is this a look you were aiming for?

Yes, it is!

[Cathpah]

what do you have lighting the background?

I don't believe anything is lighting the background in that one (aside from spill from the main/"underneath" lights).

It was shot on a very large white cyc wall.