Career in Photojournalism, realistic?

[JAcosta]

I want to become a photojournalist, specifically war photojournalism. Im 23 and currently in active duty in the US Air Force with about 2.5 years left on my enlistment. My goal is to ultimately become embedded with a Marine or Army unit, and I think my prior military background will help with that. With the last couple years or so in my contract, Im looking at completing as much of a degree in "PJism" as I can, and using the GI Bill to finish off my degree oince I get out.

My only concern is wondering if there's any furute left in it. I look through the Business of Photography forums and I see that more and more, magazines and newspapers are buying stock photo/flickr/smugmug photos for their articles. Its seeming like photojournalism is a career that is going by the wayside as more and more mooks buy DSLRs and are willing to let publishers use their photos for free just because its "cool" to be published.

Im not afraid to take up the challenge and work to get where I need to be. I am just worried that in 5-10 years there wont be a need for photojournalists anymore and I'd be out of a job. I figure at that point Ill just have to settle for weddings/senior portraits types of gigs (not saying there's anything wrong with it, I just dont have a passion for it).

What do you guys think?

[20droger]

If that's what you want to do, then go for it. Learn your craft. Start small (local events) and work your way up. Obviously, you'll have to go where the action is. And not all events are going to be covered by "mooks." There will always be a market for good photos. (Mooks don't win Pulitzers.)

As to there being a future in wartime photojournalism, yes, there is one. There will always be wars, unfortunately.

[airfrogusmc]

I think things are changing rapidly in the world of PJ. I think that a lot of the traditional type news papers and magazines (print) will still need images even though that area is now in a decline. The internet and web type media is still trying to find its way and I think once things like UP gets it all figured out there could be even more PJ opportunity. :confused: As it stands now most of the traditional media have been laying off.

PS thanks for your service.

[advaitin]

You'll have to multitask. Fortunately, the newer cameras coming out have made it possible to combine the best of video and still shooting in one piece of equipment. I expect an upcoming version of the 1D series of pro cameras will have video capability by the time you are ready to enter the biz. This will make it possible to sell to many outlets--sell being the operative word, you must sell to eat and to continue doing what you want to do.

You'll also need to sharpen your typing skills. Learn to self-correct as you write.

Check out

www.zoriah.com

to see a working pro who knows how to self-market.

[airfrogusmc]

Also there are many other areas that you can use PJ skills besides weddings that can be very lucrative and rewarding.

[JAcosta]

20droger, Thats the thing about war photography. You want wars to end but at the same time you dont want to bve out of a job.

airfrogusmc, Id like to hope that there will still be tangible magazines and newspapers. At least I think in third world countries, print will be around for a long time. I dont want to work there, though.

advaitin, I too see the future PJ as a photographer and videographer. Its just the name of the game as cameras are now going to have high quality video features along with high quality still photo capabilities. My typing skills are fine, this is just an internet forum ;)

[yogestee]

20droger, Thats the thing about war photography. You want wars to end but at the same time you dont want to bve out of a job.

airfrogusmc, Id like to hope that there will still be tangible magazines and newspapers. At least I think in third world countries, print will be around for a long time. I dont want to work there, though.

advaitin, I too see the future PJ as a photographer and videographer. Its just the name of the game as cameras are now going to have high quality video features along with high quality still photo capabilities. My typing skills are fine, this is just an internet forum ;)

Living and working in a developing country (3rd world country is now politically incorrect) is a wonderful thing if you are that kind of person..

My background is in photojournalism, I worked for a newspaper for 17 years but now I'm teaching ESL.. I do voluteer work for various NGOs here in Laos plus the occasional paid gig..I'm shooting a project at the moment on street kids for an NGO.. Volunteer your services to various organisations to get your name out there,,specialising in certain genres doesn't hurt either..

I approached one of the ministries (can't tell you which one) to get the go ahead to document some of the ethnic groups but was rejected because of the politically sensitive nature of my project..

[advaitin]

[QUOTE=advaitin, I too see the future PJ as a photographer and videographer. Its just the name of the game as cameras are now going to have high quality video features along with high quality still photo capabilities. My typing skills are fine, this is just an internet forum ;)[/QUOTE]

Yes, I hear this all the time. And I have a friend who has always worked as a PJ, whose skills with a keyboard are atrocious, yet he sells work just fine. I only say these things because our habits are hard to overcome. If you have a habit of not bothering to edit your social communication, how well will you perform if you are working under deadline and other pressures? It's my firm belief that practice makes perfect--or close to perfect. I'm not trying be hypercritical, just constructive in my advice.

I once took a budding reporter out to a crash site near Mountain Home AFB. The F-111 had lost power just after take-off and crashed on public property. The local paper was holding the presses for the story. I shot photos while the reporter (non-military female) bumbled around asking stupid questions. I knew the PAO people and got the information I needed for the caption and, consequently, the story.

We went back to the news office and I processed the film and wet-printed a screened half-tone for the front page in about 15 minutes. When I went to the front the young lady was still trying to figure out how to write the story. I sat down and typed out a straight-forward lead and three paragraph full story with all the details available at that moment and handed it to her--under her byline. She later won an award for spot news for the article.

The ability to accurately work under pressure does not come automatically. You have to discipline yourself constantly.

[DennisW1]

Yes, I hear this all the time. And I have a friend who has always worked as a PJ, whose skills with a keyboard are atrocious, yet he sells work just fine. I only say these things because our habits are hard to overcome. If you have a habit of not bothering to edit your social communication, how well will you perform if you are working under deadline and other pressures? It's my firm belief that practice makes perfect--or close to perfect. I'm not trying be hypercritical, just constructive in my advice.

I once took a budding reporter out to a crash site near Mountain Home AFB. The F-111 had lost power just after take-off and crashed on public property. The local paper was holding the presses for the story. I shot photos while the reporter (non-military female) bumbled around asking stupid questions. I knew the PAO people and got the information I needed for the caption and, consequently, the story.

We went back to the news office and I processed the film and wet-printed a screened half-tone for the front page in about 15 minutes. When I went to the front the young lady was still trying to figure out how to write the story. I sat down and typed out a straight-forward lead and three paragraph full story with all the details available at that moment and handed it to her--under her byline. She later won an award for spot news for the article.

The ability to accurately work under pressure does not come automatically. You have to discipline yourself constantly.

I realize it was a breaking story and as such often those are handed out to whoever simply happens to be available to cover it at the moment, but if this woman was so incompetent as a reporter what the hell was she doing even working there? If even after having all the facts handed to her she couldn't write a simple lead and brief story maybe she was in the wrong profession? That's pretty basic reporting skills.

And did she even share the award with you or give you proper credit for saving her ass?

[advaitin]

I realize it was a breaking story and as such often those are handed out to whoever simply happens to be available to cover it at the moment, but if this woman was so incompetent as a reporter what the hell was she doing even working there? If even after having all the facts handed to her she couldn't write a simple lead and brief story maybe she was in the wrong profession? That's pretty basic reporting skills.

And did she even share the award with you or give you proper credit for saving her ass?

Ha! That was the Mountain Home News. The editor at that time was a joke, the reporting staff was exactly two people and the other reporter was less experienced than the woman. The most experienced person on the paper was the business manager who could have written the story in ten minutes, but office politics (she was a holdover from the previous ownership) put her in a non-editorial spot.

No, I never got credit for the story. The doofus in charge felt it was important for her self-esteem. I had my share of awards from the Idaho Press Assn.

[DennisW1]

You'll have to multitask. Fortunately, the newer cameras coming out have made it possible to combine the best of video and still shooting in one piece of equipment. I expect an upcoming version of the 1D series of pro cameras will have video capability by the time you are ready to enter the biz. This will make it possible to sell to many outlets--sell being the operative word, you must sell to eat and to continue doing what you want to do.

You'll also need to sharpen your typing skills. Learn to self-correct as you write.

Check out

www.zoriah.com (http://www.zoriah.com)

to see a working pro who knows how to self-market.


And a lot of the video is still pretty poor in quality compared to "real" video gear.
I certainly hope that Canon does NOT include video in the 1D series cameras. First of all as a personal opinion I have no interest in shooting video. If I did I would buy the proper gear to do the job.
Secondly, and I wonder if anyone has considered this: Originizations like MLB for example, have very strict rules prohibiting the use of news gathering video equipment shooting game action. Would the video capability of such cameras make them unacceptable for use by photogs covering such events? Realistically it would almost have to be, as how would they enforce such a ban when it becomes impossible to distinguish a DSLR being used by the PJ's from the Betacam or P2 camera being used by a local news station? It could well open up a very large can of worms for a capability that is questionable at best in such a camera.

[advaitin]

And a lot of the video is still pretty poor in quality compared to "real" video gear.
I certainly hope that Canon does NOT include video in the 1D series cameras. First of all as a personal opinion I have no interest in shooting video. If I did I would buy the proper gear to do the job.
Secondly, and I wonder if anyone has considered this: Originizations like MLB for example, have very strict rules prohibiting the use of news gathering video equipment shooting game action. Would the video capability of such cameras make them unacceptable for use by photogs covering such events? Realistically it would almost have to be, as how would they enforce such a ban when it becomes impossible to distinguish a DSLR being used by the PJ's from the Betacam or P2 camera being used by a local news station? It could well open up a very large can of worms for a capability that is questionable at best in such a camera.

Two of my cameras have video capability, G9 and 5DM2, and I used it exactly once on the G9. There are a lot of functions available that you don't have to use to get an image. Current thinking among members of the NPPA, which represents both news and news video photographers, is that, since newspapers are already requiring staffers to bring back video for web sites as well as stills for the paper, the pros will need dual purpose equipment. So, the handwriting is on the wall.

How then, will the rules you mentioned be enforced? About the same as they are now--with a lawsuit here and there to keep shooters honest.

[JAcosta]

Thanks for the responses guys, you definitely gave me some food for thought.

Ive decided Im still going to go through with it. Do you guys think a degree in photojournalism would be worth while as long as thats what Im pursuing? I figure I can minor in something with money/management as a fall back on in case PJ ultimately doesnt work out. Worse comes to worse I could go be a photography teacher haha.

[yogestee]

Thanks for the responses guys, you definitely gave me some food for thought.

Ive decided Im still going to go through with it. Do you guys think a degree in photojournalism would be worth while as long as thats what Im pursuing? I figure I can minor in something with money/management as a fall back on in case PJ ultimately doesnt work out. Worse comes to worse I could go be a photography teacher haha.

Maybe not a degree in photography but some training in journalism will be of great benefit.. Photojournalism blends both photography and journalism.. There will be times when you will have to write as well as illustrate via your images..Believe me,,writing is much more difficult than taking photographs..

I would start off doing some course in writing..

[dave sparks]

JAcosta,
Just did 24 years with the Air Force, first 11 as a booger hooker (crew chief) on fighters, last 13 in Hydraulics on heavies. Not sure about your AFSC now but ever consider cross training? Maybe a hitch as an AF PJ might open some doors. Go to their Tech School on their dime and get some cool practical hands on for your portfolio. Someone had to take that picture from an F-22 sliding up under a tanker. May open some doors later.

And for the record, no, I was never a recruiter.Just a thought.

Dave....

[advaitin]

Thanks for the responses guys, you definitely gave me some food for thought.

Ive decided Im still going to go through with it. Do you guys think a degree in photojournalism would be worth while as long as thats what Im pursuing? I figure I can minor in something with money/management as a fall back on in case PJ ultimately doesnt work out. Worse comes to worse I could go be a photography teacher haha.

My education was split between regular college and technical school. I took a lot of writing courses in college, majoring in geography and minoring in Asian studies, working in every spare moment for school publications and CCTV. My technical schooling was in photography at what was then Daytona Beach Jr. College. I only took what I had to to become employable to support a new and growing family--I never finished the whole course of study at either school. I was an Army vet, started under the '60s GI Bill and just ran out of benefits.

It's much easier now. The Daytona school, Now Daytona State College, has become a real college with some programs leading to a four-year degree, although the photography program is still in two tracks, technical leading to a certificate and academic leading to a degree through a joint arrangement with the University of Central Florida. It allows for a greater technical education, including courses on the business of commercial photography, but art and photojournalism is available.

Those skills in both fields got me hired to work for the Dept. of the Army as a photographer, then up a grade in pay as a writer for the base paper, then up another two grades as the editor of special publications. I had a career going, but my lovely wife, who had finished her BS in nursing wanted to join the Air Force. Her choices looked better than my choices, so I left my job to follow her for 20 years.

At every base or nearby town thereafter, I found work as either a writer or a shooter and always ended up doing both for whomever I worked no matter what position I started in. I worked for PAOs, local papers and magazines and freelanced. Sometimes I did school portraits, including one 18 month period when the USAF sent my wife to get her Masters degree at the university of Florida--I freelanced for the Times-Union in Jacksonville and worked for the contract photographer doing senior and graduate portraits.

I never had fame or made really big bucks, but I had a good life and interesting times. So , I say go for it--and good luck.

[yogestee]

I'm just wondering,,does the US military encourage enlisted personal to take on extra studies like university degrees, as the Australian military does??

[dave sparks]

yogestee,
Yes, they do. In most cases to get into the top two enlisted ranks a degree is pretty much mandatory any more. I am talking about the Air Force, since I only have experience there.

Dave....

[20droger]

Maybe not a degree in photography but some training in journalism will be of great benefit.. Photojournalism blends both photography and journalism.. There will be times when you will have to write as well as illustrate via your images..Believe me,,writing is much more difficult than taking photographs..

I would start off doing some course in writing..
Amen to that. And editors are the Enemy, with a capital "E".

[yogestee]

yogestee,
Yes, they do. In most cases to get into the top two enlisted ranks a degree is pretty much mandatory any more. I am talking about the Air Force, since I only have experience there.

Dave....

Thanks Dave.. I have a friend whose both sons are in the Australian military,,one Army, one Navy.. The selection process is very difficult just on academia alone..

The son who is in the Army is parametic by profession and was advised to further his studies in the medical field at University..

The son who is in the Navy is an electrician by profession was advised to study electrical engineering and electronics..

Both sons are now at University and the Australian military is picking up the tab..

[yogestee]

Amen to that. And editors are the Enemy, with a capital "E".

Sub Editors in Australia.. The guys and gals with the mighty red pen!!

[vibin247]

I'm having second thoughts about a career in photojournalism myself. Because the market is changing and the direction of media output is more focused online than print, photojournalists have to wear more hats. Plus, marketing yourself is more important than ever, when you've got so much competition out there, and to set yourself apart seems quite challenging. It's not impossible to have a thriving career as a photojournalist, but there are fewer opportunities right now. I was thinking of joining the Air Force, which is kind of a nod to my father who spent 22 years of his life in the Blue, and train in a different field in case the photojournalism doesn't pan out. Becoming a doctor would be a real accomplishment for me (money for gear wouldn't be a problem, too ;)).

[teamB_macro]

Sure, anyone can make money in any career, depending how you approach it I guess. But like I always say -- If you're planning to pursue a career in photojournalism, then you should make sure that journalism is in your blood and that you love it, because frankly, you are NOT going to get rich doing it... :P

[vdao1972]

I work in Cambodia as a photographer for the past 6 years and have met some of the more prolific conflict photographers of the Vietnam war and I have seen the ravages that their profession have inflicted on them. These guys are considered the best of the survivors and sometimes I wonder if it was worth it. The physical and emotional scars they bear are things no one really likes to talk about when talking about conflict reportage. I guess it is one of the reasons I have never worked in a conflict zone.
To the OP, you are currently in the military and have experience in war zones but I wanted to offer a different perspective. Even though I have given you this, I can't say that there is something attractive about conflict photography so I will leave you with line that Tim Page gave me once in a bar in Phnom Penh.


"Nothing beats a good bang bang"

[JAcosta]

JAcosta,
Just did 24 years with the Air Force, first 11 as a booger hooker (crew chief) on fighters, last 13 in Hydraulics on heavies. Not sure about your AFSC now but ever consider cross training? Maybe a hitch as an AF PJ might open some doors. Go to their Tech School on their dime and get some cool practical hands on for your portfolio. Someone had to take that picture from an F-22 sliding up under a tanker. May open some doors later.

And for the record, no, I was never a recruiter.Just a thought.

Dave....


I did think about it but I dont want to take pictures of crime scenes, general's speaking, portraits of senior leadership, etc. Thats not what I want to do. Also the AF has changed and I absolutely hate it. I dont see how anyone could want to stay in.

[JAcosta]

My education was split between regular college and technical school. I took a lot of writing courses in college, majoring in geography and minoring in Asian studies, working in every spare moment for school publications and CCTV. My technical schooling was in photography at what was then Daytona Beach Jr. College. I only took what I had to to become employable to support a new and growing family--I never finished the whole course of study at either school. I was an Army vet, started under the '60s GI Bill and just ran out of benefits.

It's much easier now. The Daytona school, Now Daytona State College, has become a real college with some programs leading to a four-year degree, although the photography program is still in two tracks, technical leading to a certificate and academic leading to a degree through a joint arrangement with the University of Central Florida. It allows for a greater technical education, including courses on the business of commercial photography, but art and photojournalism is available.

Those skills in both fields got me hired to work for the Dept. of the Army as a photographer, then up a grade in pay as a writer for the base paper, then up another two grades as the editor of special publications. I had a career going, but my lovely wife, who had finished her BS in nursing wanted to join the Air Force. Her choices looked better than my choices, so I left my job to follow her for 20 years.

At every base or nearby town thereafter, I found work as either a writer or a shooter and always ended up doing both for whomever I worked no matter what position I started in. I worked for PAOs, local papers and magazines and freelanced. Sometimes I did school portraits, including one 18 month period when the USAF sent my wife to get her Masters degree at the university of Florida--I freelanced for the Times-Union in Jacksonville and worked for the contract photographer doing senior and graduate portraits.

I never had fame or made really big bucks, but I had a good life and interesting times. So , I say go for it--and good luck.


Did you ever get tired of it all, burned out, or just felt like you should have done something else?

[yogestee]

I work in Cambodia as a photographer for the past 6 years and have met some of the more prolific conflict photographers of the Vietnam war and I have seen the ravages that their profession have inflicted on them. These guys are considered the best of the survivors and sometimes I wonder if it was worth it. The physical and emotional scars they bear are things no one really likes to talk about when talking about conflict reportage. I guess it is one of the reasons I have never worked in a conflict zone.
To the OP, you are currently in the military and have experience in war zones but I wanted to offer a different perspective. Even though I have given you this, I can't say that there is something attractive about conflict photography so I will leave you with line that Tim Page gave me once in a bar in Phnom Penh.


"Nothing beats a good bang bang"

Tim Page,,,my favourite photojournalist.. "Derailed in Uncle Ho's Victory Garden" is brilliant..



Living and working in Laos I have seen the result of the ravages of war 30 plus years after the event,,it's not pretty.. I have talked to survivors of UXO explosions,,many are children..

The devastation is long lasting in terms of human suffering, long after the last shot has been fired..

War should never be glorified..

[advaitin]

Did you ever get tired of it all, burned out, or just felt like you should have done something else?

To tell you the truth, the writing was harder to do and quickest to get tired of. If I covered something I was exhaustive in interviews and research and I tried to present all sides to an issue, even if it meant doing a multi-part series. Shooting, all I had to do was be there and be the all-seeing eye.

I have always said that shooting was fun and writing was work. I'm retired now and still shooting as often as I can--if just for myself.

[JAcosta]

Tim Page,,,my favourite photojournalist.. "Derailed in Uncle Ho's Victory Garden" is brilliant..



Living and working in Laos I have seen the result of the ravages of war 30 plus years after the event,,it's not pretty.. I have talked to survivors of UXO explosions,,many are children..

The devastation is long lasting in terms of human suffering, long after the last shot has been fired..

War should never be glorified..


This is something else Id like to do. Id like to go to war ravaged countries and document the devestation and unimaginable hardships caused by conflict. These people dont have a voice, a way to tell the world. I want to be that. I want to document the suffering by these people and write about it, to let the world know whats happening. I want to bring how hard their lives to the living rooms of people who dont even know this sort of thing is happening. I want to document things like the Darfur conflict and the war crimes that happened there. Things of that nature. Being embedded with military units engaged in conflict is my way of showing americans how hard the conflict and overall day to day life of the soldiers. People just dont realize.

I just want to show the world what is happening and hopefully help try to put an end to all this.

[yogestee]

This is something else Id like to do. Id like to go to war ravaged countries and document the devestation and unimaginable hardships caused by conflict. These people dont have a voice, a way to tell the world.

I'm trying my hardest not to have a long, hard rant but I'll keep this short..

Laos is the most bombed nation on this planet.. The exact figure is not known but it's reputed there are still 30-80 million UXOs littering the Lao countryside,,a country about the size of Britain with a population of 6.5 million.. Most of these are cluster bombs, one of the most evil devices inflicted on humans by humans.. Laos has the greatest cluster bomb infestation of any country..

There are wonderful organisations like Mines Advisory Group (MAG) and UXOLao trying to clean up the mess.. At the rate they are going it will take 180 years to clean up.. UXOs are one of the major reasons why Laos is one of the poorest nations on earth.. Hundreds are killed or maimed each year,,many are children who sift through the forests looking for scrap metal to sell just to help feed their families.. Many of the injuries and deaths go unreported because it's illegal to to look for scrap metal, especially around known battle zones, so the figures are inaccurate...

A bit of "light" reading http://www.bombharvest.com/background.html

Also check out the video http://www.bombharvest.com/index.html

OK,,rant mode is off..

[airfrogusmc]

You've probably all seen this sorry if its a repost but I found it very interesting by one of the greats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3VoyjUP8hg

[JAcosta]

I'm trying my hardest not to have a long, hard rant but I'll keep this short..

Laos is the most bombed nation on this planet.. The exact figure is not known but it's reputed there are still 30-80 million UXOs littering the Lao countryside,,a country about the size of Britain with a population of 6.5 million.. Most of these are cluster bombs, one of the most evil devices inflicted on humans by humans.. Laos has the greatest cluster bomb infestation of any country..

There are wonderful organisations like Mines Advisory Group (MAG) and UXOLao trying to clean up the mess.. At the rate they are going it will take 180 years to clean up.. UXOs are one of the major reasons why Laos is one of the poorest nations on earth.. Hundreds are killed or maimed each year,,many are children who sift through the forests looking for scrap metal to sell just to help feed their families.. Many of the injuries and deaths go unreported because it's illegal to to look for scrap metal, especially around known battle zones, so the figures are inaccurate...

A bit of "light" reading http://www.bombharvest.com/background.html

Also check out the video http://www.bombharvest.com/index.html

OK,,rant mode is off..


I never knew this, and niether did anyone else at work right now. This is exactly why I want to become a photojournalist. This needs to be brought to light because this is absolutely terrible. 180 years? I cant imagine.

[JAcosta]

You've probably all seen this sorry if its a repost but I found it very interesting by one of the greats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3VoyjUP8hg


Ill have to view this later. I cant view youtube videos at work. What is it about?

[PhotosGuy]

My typing skills are fine, this is just an internet forum It doesn't matter if it's "just an internet forum". Google picks up everything we post & it's there for anyone to see forever. Publicly, you are how you're perceived to be. Also there are many other areas that you can use PJ skills besides weddings that can be very lucrative and rewarding. Consider that you could also work through an agency, & when you get tired of getting shot at, there's corporate photography. They always need images for company magazines & annual reports. Maybe a hitch as an AF PJ might open some doors. Go to their Tech School on their dime and get some cool practical hands on for your portfolio. That's my thought, too.

[JAcosta]

It doesn't matter if it's "just an internet forum". Google picks up everything we post & it's there for anyone to see forever. Publicly, you are how you're perceived to be.

Okay so lets say I apply for a job at a newspaper. The editor takes my resume, my portfolio, my references, and my interview and throws it out the window. He insteads takes time out of his or her day scrounging the internet for forums to find where I could have posted at in my leisure time. I mean he's googling anything and everything when it comes to public photography forums. He's got FM, sport shooters, nikonians, POTN, and even DPreview forums up looking for me. He finds who he thinks is me on POTN and starts searching and proofreading all the thousands of my posts. He finds a typo here, a gramatical error there, and maybe even some words I "fat fingered". He takes what he found, and decides to tell me to never contact him again for a job, reason being I didnt have perfect posts on a public internet forum from a year or so before.


Come on. This is just an internet forum.

Consider that you could also work through an agency, & when you get tired of getting shot at, there's corporate photography. They always need images for company magazines & annual reports.

Thats not a bad idea, but I dont think Id be able to do that for very long.

That's my thought, too.

For the Air Force, photography is under Personal Affairs. Photography for the Air Force is mainly taking pictures of promotions, speakers at events, crimes scenes, etc. The temporary duty assignments are normally traveling with a General officer for 2-4 weeks and being his/her personal photographer. I would also have to take portraits of award winners, and senior ranking leadership.

Eh, no thanks.

[20droger]

It doesn't matter if it's "just an internet forum". Google picks up everything we post & it's there for anyone to see forever. Publicly, you are how you're perceived to be.
Many of us are in deep doo-doo.

As a professional writer, people are always asking me for tips. My biggest single tip: learn to master English until you don't have to think about it. That means grammar, punctuation, spelling, and vocabulary.

People sometimes send me manuscripts. I always send them back, unread. I lose some "friends" that way, but, it I read them and did a C&C (as asked), I'd lose many more.

Once, a person handed me a manuscript in such a manner that it was well nigh impossible to get away. I read the first page, handed it back, and said, "Correct your spelling and grammar, then get back to me." (Both were atrocious!)

He actually said, "That's the editor's job." I'm still laughing lo these many years later.

The editor's job, indeed! You've got to get it to an editor first. Bad grammar, spelling, and punctuation will never get you past the slush pile.

I know quite a few writers. All of us have large collections of rejection slips. It goes with the territory. The late Isaac Asimov received rejection slips even after over 100 published books. He claimed, however, that by that time he had learned to keep his crying tantrum down to an hour or two.

The same basic concept applies to the other arts. There are reasons why there are so many starving artists.

[yogestee]

I never knew this, and niether did anyone else at work right now. This is exactly why I want to become a photojournalist. This needs to be brought to light because this is absolutely terrible. 180 years? I cant imagine.

From 1964 until 1973 the US military dropped 2.5 million tons of bombs on Laos because the Ho Chi Minh trails ran through Laos into South Vietnam.. Laos was a neutral country during the Second Indochina War and was having its own civil war against the Pathet Lao (the Lao communists).. These bombing sorties were kept a secret by the US government from its own people.. Richard Nixon went on TV stating "There are no combat troops in Laos". Google Laos secret war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laotian_Civil_War

Laos is sparsely populated, remote and the UXO problem so vast it will take 180 years to clean up the mess..

Savannakhet is the most effected province because the Ho Chi Minh trails ran along its eastern border with Vietnam.. Savannakhet has always been Laos' rice basket but many areas are now unfarmable because of the UXO problem further adding to poverty.. 80% of the Lao population are subsistance farmers..

I appologise to members for getting political..

[yogestee]

Ill have to view this later. I cant view youtube videos at work. What is it about?

It's the trailer from an Australian produced doco about the Mines Advisory Group, lead by an Australian ex army engineer how they are training the locals to dispose of UXOs..

[_aravena]

Just subscribing to read as it's interesting and what I want to do. What I don't get is, if you';re int he military...why didn't you go JO or something similar? I'm considering that for the Navy or Marines and thus, I'm in the war, with a gun at least :D and get military benefits doing what I love.

Is it possible? I think right now it's really hard, for anyone. it's dangerous, it's infamy worthy, it's promotable worthy, so people aren't afraid to jump in.

[yogestee]

Just subscribing to read as it's interesting and what I want to do. What I don't get is, if you';re int he military...why didn't you go JO or something similar? I'm considering that for the Navy or Marines and thus, I'm in the war, with a gun at least :D and get military benefits doing what I love.

Is it possible? I think right now it's really hard, for anyone. it's dangerous, it's infamy worthy, it's promotable worthy, so people aren't afraid to jump in.

Are you referring to me?

[_aravena]

No...the OP.

[yogestee]

Many of us are in deep doo-doo.

As a professional writer, people are always asking me for tips. My biggest single tip: learn to master English until you don't have to think about it. That means grammar, punctuation, spelling, and vocabulary.

People sometimes send me manuscripts. I always send them back, unread. I lose some "friends" that way, but, it I read them and did a C&C (as asked), I'd lose many more.

Once, a person handed me a manuscript in such a manner that it was well nigh impossible to get away. I read the first page, handed it back, and said, "Correct your spelling and grammar, then get back to me." (Both were atrocious!)

He actually said, "That's the editor's job." I'm still laughing lo these many years later.

The editor's job, indeed! You've got to get it to an editor first. Bad grammar, spelling, and punctuation will never get you past the slush pile.

I know quite a few writers. All of us have large collections of rejection slips. It goes with the territory. The late Isaac Asimov received rejection slips even after over 100 published books. He claimed, however, that by that time he had learned to keep his crying tantrum down to an hour or two.

The same basic concept applies to the other arts. There are reasons why there are so many starving artists.

Roger,, putting pen to paper isn't easy, even for educated, native speakers.. Writing is very tangible.. It's in black and white, and any mistakes jump out of the page at you..

I teach formal writing in my ESL classes as part of the syllabus.. You can have students who have a good grip on grammar, vocabulary, punctuation and sentence syntax.. Where their writing falls in a heap is the flow of ideas within the paragraph.. For example, supporting sentences having no relevance to the main idea/s of the paragraph and concluding sentences which don't connect or summarise the topic sentence or even the topic..

In my opinion anyone who is embarking in a career in photojournalism is advised to take some kind of writing course..

[vdao1972]

Just subscribing to read as it's interesting and what I want to do. What I don't get is, if you';re int he military...why didn't you go JO or something similar? I'm considering that for the Navy or Marines and thus, I'm in the war, with a gun at least :D and get military benefits doing what I love.

Is it possible? I think right now it's really hard, for anyone. it's dangerous, it's infamy worthy, it's promotable worthy, so people aren't afraid to jump in.

I think a problem with being a military journalist is a matter of objectivity. You cannot objectively cover a conflict by being employed by one of the combatting sides. I have always felt that the rules that govern the embed journos have been the main hurdle in properly covering the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq. There is a great book called Unembedded (http://www.unembedded.net/) that covers 4 very good PJ's that went under the radar and produced some of the most stunning photos from the Iraq conflict.

[20droger]

Roger,, putting pen to paper isn't easy, even for educated, native speakers.. Writing is very tangible.. It's in black and white, and any mistakes jump out of the page at you..

I teach formal writing in my ESL classes as part of the syllabus.. You can have students who have a good grip on grammar, vocabulary, punctuation and sentence syntax.. Where their writing falls in a heap is the flow of ideas within the paragraph.. For example, supporting sentences having no relevance to the main idea/s of the paragraph and concluding sentences which don't connect or summarise the topic sentence or even the topic..

In my opinion anyone who is embarking in a career in photojournalism is advised to take some kind of writing course..
All very true. It's been my experience, however, that mistake jump out of the page at everyone but the author. That is until it's published. Then every damned error become a flashing neon sign.

Process goes like this:

Write the manuscript, being careful to correct errors as you go.
Meticulously check the manuscript. Correct more errors.
Put the manuscript aside for a while to let your brain rest.
Meticulously check the manuscript again. Correct more errors.
Send the manuscript in.
Get the manuscript back from the proofreader. Correct the errors he/she found.
Meticulously check the manuscript again. Correct even more errors.
Send the manuscript in again.
Get the typesetter's proofs.
Meticulously check the proofs and correct the errors found (there are always some).
Okay the proofs. The article/book goes to press.
Get your first copy of your new article/book. Open it to any page at random. Get hit in the eye by a glaring error on that page.

[vdao1972]

Also, you might want to check out Teru's article on gizmodo (http://gizmodo.com/5330715/ask-a-pro-how-to-shoot-and-not-get-shot-in-a-war-zone?skyline=true&s=x) about being a photographer in a warzone. Along with being a war photographer, he also started Lightstalkers (http://www.lightstalkers.org) which is a great PJ site.

[advaitin]

Okay so lets say I apply for a job at a newspaper. The editor takes my resume, my portfolio, my references, and my interview and throws it out the window. He insteads takes time out of his or her day scrounging the internet for forums to find where I could have posted at in my leisure time. I mean he's googling anything and everything when it comes to public photography forums. He's got FM, sport shooters, nikonians, POTN, and even DPreview forums up looking for me. He finds who he thinks is me on POTN and starts searching and proofreading all the thousands of my posts. He finds a typo here, a gramatical error there, and maybe even some words I "fat fingered". He takes what he found, and decides to tell me to never contact him again for a job, reason being I didnt have perfect posts on a public internet forum from a year or so before.


Come on. This is just an internet forum.



Thats not a bad idea, but I dont think Id be able to do that for very long.



For the Air Force, photography is under Personal Affairs. Photography for the Air Force is mainly taking pictures of promotions, speakers at events, crimes scenes, etc. The temporary duty assignments are normally traveling with a General officer for 2-4 weeks and being his/her personal photographer. I would also have to take portraits of award winners, and senior ranking leadership.

Eh, no thanks.

I want to be encouraging, but how about errors of fact. Air Force Photographers are generally are within the Public Affairs wing, not personal affairs. While they do shoot required official portraits and meets and greets and all the mundane and boring stuff you mentioned, they are also responsible for documenting training, on-base news events and public events like air shows, aircraft accidents and war fighting--real dull stuff.

Most international shooters begin their careers working for a newspaper. They have to in order to build up a good portfolio and/or the cash reserves to support themselves if they decide to freelance on speculation. Do you know what the daily life of a newspaper photographer is like--pretty much the same as that of the Air Force photographer that you disdain.

What is it that you do now?

All very true. It's been my experience, however, that mistake jump out of the page at everyone but the author. That is until it's published. Then every damned error become a flashing neon sign.

Process goes like this:

Write the manuscript, being careful to correct errors as you go.
Meticulously check the manuscript. Correct more errors.
Put the manuscript aside for a while to let your brain rest.
Meticulously check the manuscript again. Correct more errors.
Send the manuscript in.
Get the manuscript back from the proofreader. Correct the errors he/she found.
Meticulously check the manuscript again. Correct even more errors.
Send the manuscript in again.
Get the typesetter's proofs.
Meticulously check the proofs and correct the errors found (there are always some).
Okay the proofs. The article/book goes to press.
Get your first copy of your new article/book. Open it to any page at random. Get hit in the eye by a glaring error on that page.

God's honest truth! Even worse for a Masters thesis.

I think a problem with being a military journalist is a matter of objectivity. You cannot objectively cover a conflict by being employed by one of the combatting sides. I have always felt that the rules that govern the embed journos have been the main hurdle in properly covering the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq. There is a great book called Unembedded (http://www.unembedded.net/) that covers 4 very good PJ's that went under the radar and produced some of the most stunning photos from the Iraq conflict.


You are right and wrong, all at the same time. Military journalists and photographers who get what used to be called DINFOS training (It may still be, but acronyms get changed all the time) undergo a relatively fast course, but includes the same journalistic ethics that college journalism majors get. Consequently they cover everything as accurately as they can, within their individual capabilities.

What goes out to the public, however, is often censored according to the military commander's policies. This is true of the embedded civilian journalists, as well. Unlike the product of the military journalist, which is totally owned and controlled by the military, the civilian can retain his notes and images and report what he wants once he is out of the theater of operations.

What your unembedded journalists did was good work, but don't think for a moment that what they showed to the world was purely altruistic or lacking an agenda. Everyone works from a point-of-view. Everyone has to find an audience to buy their product. And don't think that public media is any more free than military media.

[advaitin]

I forgot to mention that PhotosGuy has a point. It's now almost routine for personnel managers to do an internet search on new or selected new employees. If you've maintained your anonymity at web sites and keep embarrassing stuff off Facebook and Myspace, you should be OK.

[PhotosGuy]

Come on. This is just an internet forum. It's about paying attention to detail, & I'm not just talking about the occasional typo. If you aren't inclined to do it here, what makes a editor believe that you'll be any better at it on the job you would do for him? Would you stop when you got "a" image, or would you go the extra mile(s) to get "the" image? And how do you convince him that you would?

[_aravena]

It's about paying attention to detail, & I'm not just talking about the occasional typo. If you aren't inclined to do it here, what makes a editor believe that you'll be any better at it on the job you would do for him? Would you stop when you got "a" image, or would you go the extra mile(s) to get "the" image? And how do you convince him that you would?

Actually you lack a point there. After find MANY MANY MANY mistakes in my local paper, I started hunting down articles and reading more than I care to about the same crap stories online for different papers and magazines. Not to mention, my local paper obviously gets articles from other papers like the New York Times which is where I've found mistakes. Sorry to burst your bubble but typos apparently mean nothing. I have a collection of mistake within a week covering small and large newspaper companies.

If you're right, maybe I'll land a job or internship; or...someone else may just lose there's.

[20droger]

It's about paying attention to detail, & I'm not just talking about the occasional typo. If you aren't inclined to do it here, what makes a editor believe that you'll be any better at it on the job you would do for him? Would you stop when you got "a" image, or would you go the extra mile(s) to get "the" image? And how do you convince him that you would?
You're beating a dead horse, PhotosGuy. Virtually all the "it's just an internet forum" types I've run across fail to grasp one simple fact. It's just plain rude to post crap and expect someone to wade through it. If some poster won't respect me as a reader, why should I respect him as a poster? I don't.

It is very true that one is perceived as and judged by what one posts. There is, after all, no other way one can be judged over such an anonymous medium. This being the case, why would one want to post crap?

We all sort of agree that one shouldn't post in all caps. It's perceived as "shouting," and rude. What about using no caps, which seems to be popular these days? I find it difficult to read, so I usually don't bother. The same goes for the "no paragraphs" crowd.

There are reasons that English has rules.

[airfrogusmc]

Ill have to view this later. I cant view youtube videos at work. What is it about?

The Was Photographer / James Nachtwey

[stathunter]

To the OP - I would suggest that you have a back up plan - that is not related to PJ. Photojournalism is a VERY tough industry to work in now. Call a few editors and ask them the chances of getting a job - unfortunately you will here sad things.
While being a war photographer is interesting - right now it is hard to make any $$ doing it - there is a lot of access to war photos and fairly easy to get embedded - so the income return is low.
I would suggest that you specialize in something - come up with your own niche - if you are going to count on working for a paper or magazine - it is EXTREMELY tough right now - and probably not going to get better.

[vdao1972]

Another great documentary is The Death of Kevin Carter: Casualty of the Bang Bang Club.

[PhotosGuy]

You're beating a dead horse, PhotosGuy. I know. Sad, isn't it? But the point might stick with somebody.

I sometimes email with a friends 11-year old daughter. After six months, she's starting to use the CAPs & periods. It's worth the effort. ;)

[yogestee]

Another great documentary is The Death of Kevin Carter: Casualty of the Bang Bang Club.

I've heard of this doco but never watched it..

Back to Tim Page.. I first heard of Tim Page whilst reading Tim Bowden's "One Crowded Hour',, Neil Davis' autobiography..

BTW,,is Neil Davis' photo still hanging in the FCC in Phnom Penh??

[DennisW1]

Two of my cameras have video capability, G9 and 5DM2, and I used it exactly once on the G9. There are a lot of functions available that you don't have to use to get an image. Current thinking among members of the NPPA, which represents both news and news video photographers, is that, since newspapers are already requiring staffers to bring back video for web sites as well as stills for the paper, the pros will need dual purpose equipment. So, the handwriting is on the wall.

How then, will the rules you mentioned be enforced? About the same as they are now--with a lawsuit here and there to keep shooters honest.


Or just with security people refusing admittance to anyone with camera models on a "black list", including photojournalists. Don't put it past originizations like MLB and others. They do more stupid stuff than that even now.

[20droger]

I know. Sad, isn't it? But the point might stick with somebody.

I sometimes email with a friends 11-year old daughter. After six months, she's starting to use the CAPs & periods. It's worth the effort. ;)
It's beyond sad. It's tragic.

I've received job applications and resumés with text-speak and/or profanity. And they'll never understand why they didn't get the job, being so well qualified.

[vdao1972]

I've heard of this doco but never watched it..

Back to Tim Page.. I first heard of Tim Page whilst reading Tim Bowden's "One Crowded Hour',, Neil Davis' autobiography..

BTW,,is Neil Davis' photo still hanging in the FCC in Phnom Penh??

I don't know about that as its been awhile since I've been in the FCC as its a bit too touristy for me. Next time you are in Phnom Penh, you should go to Cantina. Its now turned into the journo hangout and gets pretty wacky on Thursdays. If you are ever in Phnom Penh, email me and we can catch a beer there.

Vinh

[yogestee]

I don't know about that as its been awhile since I've been in the FCC as its a bit too touristy for me. Next time you are in Phnom Penh, you should go to Cantina. Its now turned into the journo hangout and gets pretty wacky on Thursdays. If you are ever in Phnom Penh, email me and we can catch a beer there.

Vinh

OK Vinh,,will do :)

[Tom Reichner]

I think that the goal of becoming a full time photojournalist is realistic, if you're willing to pay your dues. I would expect that if you really wanted this, you would have to be willing to take a "crap" job for several years at a small town newspaper. You would be under alot of stress & pressure, would have to work 50-70 hours a week, and get paid in the $20,000 to $25,000 per year range. After 5 or 10 years doing this you could move up the ladder a bit and take a slightly better job with the same paper or a similar job with a bigger newspaper. After another 5 or 10 years you could perhaps apply for and interview for better jobs that are similar to what you ultimately want to do - if your work is truly excellent. It seems to be this way in many fields - work your butt off for nothing for 15 or 20 years, then you finally get something halfway decent. But even when you get the "dream job" it's going to be a very hard grind to continually keep the bosses happy.

[oaktree]

Probably not realistic. BUT, if I or anyone else can convince you of that, you won't make it anyway.

[yogestee]

I think that the goal of becoming a full time photojournalist is realistic, if you're willing to pay your dues. I would expect that if you really wanted this, you would have to be willing to take a "crap" job for several years at a small town newspaper. You would be under alot of stress & pressure, would have to work 50-70 hours a week, and get paid in the $20,000 to $25,000 per year range. After 5 or 10 years doing this you could move up the ladder a bit and take a slightly better job with the same paper or a similar job with a bigger newspaper. After another 5 or 10 years you could perhaps apply for and interview for better jobs that are similar to what you ultimately want to do - if your work is truly excellent. It seems to be this way in many fields - work your butt off for nothing for 15 or 20 years, then you finally get something halfway decent. But even when you get the "dream job" it's going to be a very hard grind to continually keep the bosses happy.

Why are salaries so low in the States?? No-one in Australia would work a 50-70 hour week for 25 grand..

[advaitin]

Why are salaries so low in the States?? No-one in Australia would work a 50-70 hour week for 25 grand..

Some community newspapers--weeklies and semi-weeklies pay less than that. Newspaper management prefer young, dumb--just out of school--photographers who are grateful to have a job. I don't mean dumb as in stupid, but unfamiliar with the way the world works. The last small-town daily I worked at had one chief photographer who actually inherited the job from his father--on the job training, nothing else. There was one staffer who desperately longed to be somewhere else, but couldn't find a new job. There was a vacancy for a second staff position, temporarily held by me because I was hired to report. I was back to writing after they hired a kid straight out of school who was quite good, but he was too good and was hired away within six months. That gave me back my second hat of shooter-writer until my wife retired from the Air Force and we moved home to Daytona.

Even when there were three photographers on the staff, I still shot most of my own features because I quickly learned that assigning feature shots against hard news and community meet and grabs always seemed to get last priority. It was second nature for me to catch what I needed while I was gathering the info. And occasionally I would see something and just shoot it as spot news because waiting for a staffer to get on scene would have lost the moment. And the salary--$10 to $11.00 an hour--averaging just more than $400.00 a week. Of course this was ten years ago--the turn of the century when the dollar meant something (Ha!).

[yogestee]

In Australia we have a minimum wage which is $14.31 AUD before tax.. This is a Federal Award and any employer paying workers under that will have the book thrown at them and probably closed down.. This comes from having a unionised work force..

For example, a 3rd year photography cadet (trainee) is paid $43,378.00 AUD per annum before tax for a 38 hour week plus 20 days paid leave per annum..

This scale goes up to a Grade 10 which is paid $110,661.00 AUD per annum before tax for a 38 hour week.. These awards were updated on the 1st September 2009.. Newspapers are highly unionised..

Resourses fom Media, Entertainment, Arts Alliance (MEAA) the union which handles Photographer's and Journalist's awards..

http://www.alliance.org.au/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=7&Itemid=123

[Tom Reichner]

Why are salaries so low in the States?? No-one in Australia would work a 50-70 hour week for 25 grand..

Many of our newspapers are in tiny little communities with struggling economies. My local newspaper puts a paper out once a week. It's circulation is quite low. In fact, the total population that it serves is less than 10,000 people - so I would guess that it's circulation is probably less than 4,000.
Where would the money come from if they were to pay more to their reporters? how the heck would the newspaper with a tiny little circulation ever make enough revenue to pay people more? They have already tried to do silly little things to raise revenues, but their ideas just don't work because there are just so few people living here, and the people who live here have very, very little money.
The US has many, many such communities. Communities that are very rural and isolated from the larger population centers. Newspapers exist in almost every such community, and all of them struggle to stay afloat. In Australia, are there any tiny little towns that are 200 to 300 miles from any other city? if so, and such a town had only a few thousand people living in it, how would the local newspaper be able to bring in enough revenue to pay people the high minimums that you have spoken of? Or do the tiny little communities in Australia not have their own local weekly newspaper?

[yogestee]

Many of our newspapers are in tiny little communities with struggling economies. My local newspaper puts a paper out once a week. It's circulation is quite low. In fact, the total population that it serves is less than 10,000 people - so I would guess that it's circulation is probably less than 4,000.
Where would the money come from if they were to pay more to their reporters? how the heck would the newspaper with a tiny little circulation ever make enough revenue to pay people more? They have already tried to do silly little things to raise revenues, but their ideas just don't work because there are just so few people living here, and the people who live here have very, very little money.
The US has many, many such communities. Communities that are very rural and isolated from the larger population centers. Newspapers exist in almost every such community, and all of them struggle to stay afloat. In Australia, are there any tiny little towns that are 200 to 300 miles from any other city? if so, and such a town had only a few thousand people living in it, how would the local newspaper be able to bring in enough revenue to pay people the high minimums that you have spoken of? Or do the tiny little communities in Australia not have their own local weekly newspaper?

Tom,, most newspapers even the small country town 'papers come under the umbrella of a larger mastheads like Fairfax, News Limited or Rural Press.. Because the organisations are so large they can absorb the costs of production costs etc.. Only about 20% of revenue is actually from the cover price,,the rest is made up from advertisers..

Most independent newspapers employ casuals which offsets the cost of salaries.. Many of the photographers and journalists are used as contributers and work for more than one media group..Many smaller newspapers are slowly being gobbled up by the larger media groups which in my opinion is sad..Most of these smaller newspapers have been community 'papers for many, many years and have been owned by the one family for generations..
The newspaper I worked for, for 17 years is a mid sized daily which was established in 1855..

The salaries I quoted in my last post is for Photographers, Journalists and Artists who work fulltime for Fairfax.. Casuals are paid a higher hourly rate but don't get paid leave or sick leave but the employer still contributes to their superannuation..

[hooookup]

Very very tough job to come by right now. The industry has been dying a slow death for years. Daily periodicals are dropping by the dozens. Stringers willing to work for free are taking over.

[shannyD]

if you are already enlisted in the military.. you can see if you can make a LAT move to combat photography? or switch service. I have friends in the Marines, and the Army who are combat photographers, and have grown tremendously as photographers. And I have seen more emotionally moving material come out of them, than I have seen from an embeded photographer in a long time.

i realize that staying in the service is not what you are looking for.. BUT i feel that it is a great strting point, and will give you a better learning advantage, and a lot more experience than a lot of other people get in the real world. you can use some of the images to start building up your portfilio as well.

like i said.. i have seen images that have broken my heart, moved me to tears because of a tender moment.. and they came from our enlisted boys serving in the dirt.

just another suggestion.

[JAcosta]

Im not staying in the military.

[Rainyday]

Maybe not a degree in photography but some training in journalism will be of great benefit.. Photojournalism blends both photography and journalism.. There will be times when you will have to write as well as illustrate via your images..Believe me,,writing is much more difficult than taking photographs..

I would start off doing some course in writing..

Agreed, plenty of writing. And take tons of photojournalism pictures. Photograph strangers, dogs in the park anything and everything. And pay attention to details. You might not think sloppy typing on a forum matters, but I guarantee you if I were an editor and saw your posts, your resume wouldn't get a second glance. You're discussing your career here, act like your future employer is also here.

[advaitin]

Agreed, plenty of writing. And take tons of photojournalism pictures. Photograph strangers, dogs in the park anything and everything. And pay attention to details. You might not think sloppy typing on a forum matters, but I guarantee you if I were an editor and saw your posts, your resume wouldn't get a second glance. You're discussing your career here, act like your future employer is also here.

If you click on the little blue Flickr link at the bottom of the OP's signature, you can see his photography. It gave me a sense of deja vu--to the kind of stuff I and other GIs with cameras shot in our unformed youth--some 46 years ago. The more things change, the more they stay the same, and one thing that doesn't change in the military is the massive amounts of boredom and make work mixed with a few moments of pucker factor. The factor increases if you serve in a combat unit, but there is no real "behind the lines" job in the sandbox, so everyone gets an equal chance at a pucker moment.

I do have a bit of news for our OP. There will come a day when you'll wonder whether you should have gotten out--whether you made the right choice at this time, depending on which way your road leads.

[advaitin]

September/October issue of American Photo has an article that addresses the OP's question. Page 4 editorial and page 35 article: How three combat photographers got their start shooting local news at a small newspaper in Ohio.

[chauncey]

Why are salaries so low in the States??
To quote my good friend Mitch, " Great photographers are like ants at a picnic". Since there's a ton of them out there...salaries go south.

You have 2.5 years left...use it.

[yogestee]

To quote my good friend Mitch, " Great photographers are like ants at a picnic". Since there's a ton of them out there...salaries go south.

You have 2.5 years left...use it.

Shouldn't that read "great photographers are as rare as rocking horse s**t,,average photographers are like ants at a picnic"??

[advaitin]

Shouldn't that read "great photographers are as rare as rocking horse s**t,,average photographers are like ants at a picnic"??

By that standard there would be no great photographers, since rocking horse manure does not exist. On the other hand, God must love average photographers---you know the rest of the quote.