Bridesmaid 'Snapshot'

[paulhillion]

I don't really do portraits but I took this shot at a recent wedding & I really like the way it turned out. 2 of the bridesmaids came over to my table for a chat & I just picked up my camera which had my 2 day old 50mm f/1.4 on & took one rather quckly composed shot. I thought I'd share it here!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/hillion/540BW.jpg

Thanks for looking.

[Baadil]

Very nice Pic.


---
Edit
---


I am really sorry about modifying and posting your image. I didn't mean to upset you.
I apologize.

[paulhillion]

Very nice Pic.

I just had to do some post processing on it... I hope you don't mind,,,:lol:
Would have been better if you'd asked first :mad:

[smittymike19]

I don't really do portraits but I took this shot at a recent wedding & I really like the way it turned out. 2 of the bridesmaids came over to my table for a chat & I just picked up my camera which had my 2 day old 50mm f/1.4 on & took one rather quckly composed shot. I thought I'd share it here!


Thanks for looking.

in my opinion, their faces are too dark. not a bad shot otherwise.

[smittymike19]

i gave it a quick shot in ps...let me know if you want me to take it down.

[kawter2]

Would have been better if you'd asked first :mad:


Yea this really pi$$e$ me off too.. I don't understand why people can't just ask!

I am sorry, I trust that you all have pure motives, but unless someone says "please edit this for me" it seems a BIT presumptious that someone would modify the image and upload it to the web with out even asking..

just my $.00015
[/rant]

[smittymike19]

oops sorry, didnt realize it meant that much. removed the edit.

[SuzanneCarey]

I think the shot looks great, a little dark, maybe play with levels a bit. Now I have made this same faux pas myself when I was new to the forum world. Some one else had edited an image and then I did too after they did...for fun. The poster was very gracious and did not say anything but later I thought maybe that was not very appropriate b/c they did not ask to have their image edited. Now I personally do not mind if someone edits my images. I like to see what others can do with it and see if they can make it BETTER. I think that's the point is to learn from others. But I can understand how some can get upset, especially if they did not ask for help in editing.

[smittymike19]

What is the best way to learn?

When I signed up for this forum I was interested in learning about photography. If I had my choice I would follow an expert around for a while and pay really close attention and take tons of notes. Since this is not an option, I joined this forum, which I consider the next best thing. Here we have an opportunity to show our work and ask for critiques. Hell if we get lucky someone may actually take a few minutes and actually show us what they would have done, rather than just tell us. Does it make the picture better or worse? That is up for discussion. But it is part of learning to critique your own work. If someone can show me a physical picture it is much easier for me to discern whether or not I prefer the edit, rather than just hearing “it needs to be lighter”. Sometimes I need to be shown the edit, and it makes much more sense. I can understand that egos can be fragile, but I truly doubt anyone here is out to hurt anyones feelings.
On this forum there are several types of people:
1. Scanners. People who just look at the posts and read, but don’t comment. They are serving the community absolutely no good as they are only taking, and not giving. If no one commented, the forum would quickly collapse.
2. Quick critiques…”cool shot. Cute. Neat picture.” These are great comments to get but again, it is not really teaching you anything.
3. Critiques: “well it’s a great shot, but…or…I love the composition and lighting….” Now here we are learning something. I often find myself saying “hey that IS a great idea” or “nah I like it my way”. Either way it starts to allow the process of critical thinking in photographic terms to occur.
4. Editors: “hey it’s a cool shot but this is what I would do…” In my opinion, these are the most highly regarded people on this site. They are actually taking time out to SHOW you their interpretation of the shot. It may or may not work, but I still feel appreciative that they actually took time out to give me a hand.

If you arent interested in someone sharing their opinion, I’m not quite sure that it is in your best interest to post on a public forum. Just my 2 cents. J

[kawter2]

...Now I personally do not mind if someone edits my images. I like to see what others can do with it and see if they can make it BETTER. I think that's the point is to learn from others. But I can understand how some can get upset, especially if they did not ask for help in editing.



Exactly, I just think we need to ask a bit more before we do it.. that is all

sorry about the rant, just caught me in a bit of a bad mood on a frustrating topic

[ayotnoms]

The photo appears too dark but my work monitor probably accounts for 80% of that.
I think it's a good shot that highlights the capabilities of the f/1.4 lens; that kool bokeh.

As for the editing, I'm in the "ask first" camp. If the person posting solicits alternative processing, that's fine too.

Recalling all the re-edits I've viewed on the forum since I joined, I estimate 25% of them were bonafide improvements. Most of the time they're either no better or a step down from the original.

There.
2¢ worth :-)

[SuzanneCarey]

Now this is what I love about this forum! We can all kiss and make up and hopefully no one goes away upset. This by far has become my favorite forum. Now Smitty I am afraid I fall under the "quick critique" category. I feel I should leave feedback on those images that "move" me b/c I have posted images myself and have gotten feedback. But to be honest, I feel like I am still learning so I feel I have no right to tell them how to do it differently. Maybe after a few more year's experience, I will get there. I have certainly enjoyed the feedback I have gotten from those "veterns". I also appreciate those who can give me DETAILS on how to make it better. IT takes a long time to write all that out, I hope others can appreciate and recognize that. :)

[Andy_T]

It's a nice image ... but it looks a bit dark to me, too.

Also, I think that the brutal sharpness of the 50/1.4 is too realistic ... especially on the skin of the girl on the right.

A light touch with the healing brush or a teenie weenie bit of blur might make her appreciate the picture more, I guess.

Best regards,
Andy

[Baadil]

Well,,, to me, it was not a big deal, as I usually appriciate when someone tries to enhance my image. Then again, I am a total amature and I usually like everyone's edits except my own. In any case, my edits were not meant to upset anyone. :-)
I guess just because it does not upset me does not mean it won't upset anyone else. You learn everyday :-)

[kjonnnn]

SmittyMike...

Learn the technical stuff and your camera controls, so that its all second nature to you. THEN start developing an "eye" for a good photography. Study some great photographs. Pick apart the elements of a photograph to find what makes you like it. (Remember some of the best photoographs are off simple things sometimes). Learning this is actually harder than the technical stuff. Don't throw away your bad photos. Analyze them asking yourself "What is wrong with this photo?" or "What should I have done differently? That was what was great about slide film. They aren't manipulated by a printer or even photoshop. The slide shows you exactly what you shot. I'm from the school of thought, "Get it right in the camera first."

[AFGPhotography]

I fall into the the "ask first" camp as well. It's a courtesy issue.

Now... about that list:

On this forum there are several types of people:
1. Scanners. People who just look at the posts and read, but don’t comment. They are serving the community absolutely no good as they are only taking, and not giving. If no one commented, the forum would quickly collapse.
2. Quick critiques…”cool shot. Cute. Neat picture.” These are great comments to get but again, it is not really teaching you anything.
3. Critiques: “well it’s a great shot, but…or…I love the composition and lighting….” Now here we are learning something. I often find myself saying “hey that IS a great idea” or “nah I like it my way”. Either way it starts to allow the process of critical thinking in photographic terms to occur.
4. Editors: “hey it’s a cool shot but this is what I would do…” In my opinion, these are the most highly regarded people on this site. They are actually taking time out to SHOW you their interpretation of the shot. It may or may not work, but I still feel appreciative that they actually took time out to give me a hand.

As for #1 - Scanners? Really?! In the Photo Sharing forums there is nothing wrong with folks "just looking". Maybe you should have specified the "Critique" forum for this bit of nonsense. Do you got to a museum and critique the artwork? Do you mutter suggestions when looking at photos in a book? I think not.
As for #2 - Well you have really tied the hands of the scanners looking to break out of "scan mode". There are a lot of beginners and amateurs "scanning" these forums. They just don't have a "contructive criticism" to interject into the threads containing pictures they like. Again, I think you used a shotgun instead of sharpshooter. ;) And you left out an example of the other end of the spectrum - as in posts like this: "Just doesn't do it for me." or "what's this suppose to be?" Those are also worthless posts in either the "sharing" or "critique" forums.

3 and 4 are fine. :)

But it's all profiling and we all know profiling is wrong. :lol:

Just my opinion as a scanner - until now.

AFG

[smittymike19]

I fall into the the "ask first" camp as well. It's a courtesy issue.

Now... about that list:



As for #1 - Scanners? Really?! In the Photo Sharing forums there is nothing wrong with folks "just looking". Maybe you should have specified the "Critique" forum for this bit of nonsense. Do you got to a museum and critique the artwork? Do you mutter suggestions when looking at photos in a book? I think not.
As for #2 - Well you have really tied the hands of the scanners looking to break out of "scan mode". There are a lot of beginners and amateurs "scanning" these forums. They just don't have a "contructive criticism" to interject into the threads containing pictures they like. Again, I think you used a shotgun instead of sharpshooter. ;) And you left out an example of the other end of the spectrum - as in posts like this: "Just doesn't do it for me." or "what's this suppose to be?" Those are also worthless posts in either the "sharing" or "critique" forums.

3 and 4 are fine. :)

But it's all profiling and we all know profiling is wrong. :lol:

Just my opinion as a scanner - until now.

AFG

ok you hit a hot button.
scanners. as far as i see a scanner it is doing a poster no good. if i post a picture and someone looks at it and doesnt leave me some sort of message, what am i posting the picture for? i am here to learn from fellow photogarphers. you lost me there. as afr as the museum, yeah i do go there and say hmm this is really cool i like the colors or this is just plain ugly. DOnt you? im very confused why you would go to the museum if you didnt want to talk about the art...its half the fun.
as far as #2, i would rather have that then nothing at all. i didnt come down on those people, i just think it would serve a greater purpose to expand on what you think is "cute,cool,or neat" about the shot. I am by no means a great photographer. BUT, i do know what i like and why. Saying, hey this is a cool shot,is a half a$$ed attempt at helping. Saying "hey this is a cool shot because it has great colors,nice lines,great composition, etc...well then we are getting somewhere. Not that every post has to have a thesis, but a short expansion on why you say "cool shot" is definitely helpful. Granted i am guilty of being #1,2,3,and 4 at times. Im just saying what i would appreciate, and that is more #4s and less #1s. Thats really all. Its irritating to me when i take the time to resize and post my pictures and have 150 people look at them, and 3 people leave comments. i would almost rather have a mandatory comment agrrement. that is if you look you must say something, even if it is just cool or neat or (yikes) terrible. at least im getting some feedback.

to me whan soemone says neat or cute, its ike my mom saying that i look nice, of course she has to say that, even if i had half my head dipped in battery acid for an hour just before she commented. :)

[Titus213]

The pictures too dark for my liking and I suspect would be too sharp for a really good portrait. But I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole if someone begged me to...

[elbirth]

I agree with the comments of it looking a bit dark... I also think it should be cropped slightly tighter to get rid of the girl's deathgrip on the other's arm.

Also... I highly doubt anyone on this forum is out to try to make a fool of someone else or try to make them feel bad. I've had people edit my photos, and I enjoy seeing what others come up with. If someone edits your photo, just take it for what it's worth and see if you like/dislike what they did and comment back, that's all you need to do. It's not like they're out to steal your work or show you up.

And Titus213, sadly, I think most anyone else would be too scared to even offer posting their own edits to that simply because of the response given to an edit already at the beginning. It's sad that someone wants to come to an online forum to learn, but then when the opportunity is given, it gets shunned

[kawter2]

.... If someone edits your photo, just take it for what it's worth and see if you like/dislike what they did and comment back, that's all you need to do. It's not like they're out to steal your work or show you up.

And Titus213, sadly, I think most anyone else would be too scared to even offer posting their own edits to that simply because of the response given to an edit already at the beginning. It's sad that someone wants to come to an online forum to learn, but then when the opportunity is given, it gets shunned


Ik i wrote a LOOONG rant then deleted because i want to remain civil.. but I still don't understand why people are offended because they are being asked to ASK before editing someones images out of the blue in a "Sharing" section.

[elbirth]

Ik i wrote a LOOONG rant then deleted because i want to remain civil.. but I still don't understand why people are offended because they are being asked to ASK before editing someones images out of the blue in a "Sharing" section.


Maybe it's just me, but I've "lived" on online forums for YEARS, of various types, and it's always been accepted that if you post a picture online, it's susceptible to edits by other members.
I'm not offended personally, though I can understand why some people are- they're offering advice out of simply wanting to help a fellow photographer and that person gets mad that they're trying to help. It's the internet, get over it and don't take anything to heart, please... for people on both sides, not just one or the other.

[kawter2]

Maybe it's just me, but I've "lived" on online forums for YEARS, of various types, and it's always been accepted that if you post a picture online, it's susceptible to edits by other members.
.

Hummn that is odd because I have seen the exact opposite except here.. most places you are required to ask or PM

they're offering advice out of simply wanting to help a fellow photographer and that person gets mad that they're trying to help.

It isn't advice, when i think a PS edit would be ok I offer the steps that i did, or ask if it is ok to post the imag... Advice and altering someone elses creative content are TWO ENTIRELY diferent things..

, get over it and don't take anything to heart, please... for people on both sides, .

Nahh, i don't think people should get over it, I think it is healthy to air it out so we see if people WOULD rather that people ask before modifying their creative works

[elbirth]

It isn't advice, when i think a PS edit would be ok I offer the steps that i did, or ask if it is ok to post the imag... Advice and altering someone elses creative content are TWO ENTIRELY diferent things..

You make some good points, but I still have to disagree here to an extent. Sure, simply editing it and refusing to share what you did is a waste of everyone's time. However, I've always seen people here either offer up front what they did to it or provide the steps when asked afterwards. That is the advice that's being received.

[PhotosGuy]

If someone can show me a physical picture it is much easier for me to discern whether or not I prefer the edit, rather than just hearing “it needs to be lighter”. I have to agree that it's easier to show something than to explain it, but usually put long explainations in a sticky & then just provide a link to it. OTOH, I have edited 2-3 pics without asking.

As to comments like "Nice shot!", that should be enough when it really is, especially when other people have commented, & the pic isn't in the "Critique" section. If you want details, then put it there. Otherwise, you're putting it here for scanning & general sharing. And, just to fulfil my PC quota for 2005, I'll add IMHO.
;)

[cmM]

Jeeeesus Christ why are you people making such a big deal out of this...

[smittymike19]

hey maybe the answer to all of this is to have a "do not mod this post" button near the upload attachments. then people would know if they were allowed to do so or not. i agree this is a silly conversation, but i felt dumb after i offered an idea and got shunned. It reminds me of a time i tried to break up a fight and everyone turned on me and i got the crap kicked out of me by about 5 guys. was just trying to help. not trying to offend anyone. i really do enjoy it when people edit my pics, it shows me that they are trying to help, i NEVER feel insulted, unless it was accompanied by soemthing like "are you a moron, this is the worst piece of crap ive ever seen", well yeah, then it might be different. isuggest anyone who gets thier panties in a bunch by edits should ALWAYS put (in bold) PLEASE DO NOT MODIFY MY IMAGE. then you wouldnt have to worry. Peace. Ps i have a post in still life Black and white titled "abandonded trailer park, please feel free to edit, comment whatever, i am tough, i can take it. Peace.

[elbirth]

hey maybe the answer to all of this is to have a "do not mod this post" button near the upload attachments. then people would know if they were allowed to do so or not. i agree this is a silly conversation, but i felt dumb after i offered an idea and got shunned. It reminds me of a time i tried to break up a fight and everyone turned on me and i got the crap kicked out of me by about 5 guys. was just trying to help. not trying to offend anyone. i really do enjoy it when people edit my pics, it shows me that they are trying to help, i NEVER feel insulted, unless it was accompanied by soemthing like "are you a moron, this is the worst piece of crap ive ever seen", well yeah, then it might be different. isuggest anyone who gets thier panties in a bunch by edits should ALWAYS put (in bold) PLEASE DO NOT MODIFY MY IMAGE. then you wouldnt have to worry. Peace. Ps i have a post in still life Black and white titled "abandonded trailer park, please feel free to edit, comment whatever, i am tough, i can take it. Peace.

I know there are probably going to be people to respond to this and freak out, saying that there shouldn't need to be any prior requests to NOT modify it before anyone asks... but if you're going to freak out that much over it, then maybe it's necessary to prevent further discussions such as this.

[Andy_T]

I agree with CMM.

And I can see Titus' point very well ... I have similar feelings.

Another question ...
Paul, do you appreciate our feedback (apart from the editing) at all?
You put it here to share, not for critique.

Best regards,
Andy

[Maureen Souza]

Oh my, this has been a little hot bed that I've missed out on. Personally, I don't care if people edit my posts and share their take on my pictures. I think it is fun & interesting to see what others come up with. After all, my pictures are still in my computer/on a disc in their original form and they aren't touched by anyone but me. Whatever is posted here is a free-for-all. Let's not lose sight of the fact that we are all interested in viewing, commenting, critiquing and helping each other along here.

[PhotosGuy]

Good for you, Maureen! anyone who gets thier panties in a bunch :D:D:D I haven't heard that one in a long time!

[poke]

Maybe we need to get Pekka to add an extra line under peoples avatar's... something to signify if they are going to get offended by edits.

Personally I can't see the problem with edits, either requested or unsolicited. If people are that worried about it, then maybe we can have a few sections where no reply posts are allowed. Then people can just display their photos for everyone to see... oh wait... isn't that what a gallery is for!!!

[cmM]

Maybe we need to get Pekka to add an extra line under peoples avatar's... something to signify if they are going to get offended by edits.

Personally I can't see the problem with edits, either requested or unsolicited. If people are that worried about it, then maybe we can have a few sections where no reply posts are allowed. Then people can just display their photos for everyone to see... oh wait... isn't that what a gallery is for!!!
How about you just put it in your signature if it's soooo important, I'm sure no one will touch your posted images.
Pekka has a life too. Let's not make administrating this site a full time job for him.

[poke]

How about you just put it in your signature if it's soooo important, I'm sure no one will touch your posted images.
Pekka has a life too. Let's not make administrating this site a full time job for him.

Umm... maybe the sarcasm in my post didn't come across. :D

Lifes to short to get wound up over something like this. Lets get back to looking a pics!!

[cmM]

Umm... maybe the sarcasm in my post didn't come across. :D

Lifes to short to get wound up over something like this. Lets get back to looking a pics!!
You're right, it didn't :). I thought you were seriously gonna request some nonsense stuff like that.

[paulhillion]

I agree with CMM.

And I can see Titus' point very well ... I have similar feelings.

Another question ...
Paul, do you appreciate our feedback (apart from the editing) at all?
You put it here to share, not for critique.

Best regards,
AndyOh dear what a to do!

I sure do appreciate feedback and without it I wouldn't have learnt as much as I have done over the last year or so. But what seems to have stirred up quite a debate is my little statement that it would have been nice to have been asked first if it was ok to modify my image and post the results. Within a couple of minutes of me posting this photograph a member had seen fit to (quickly) modify the image and post the results, the fact that I didn't like the modified version is by the by.. I wouldn't dare download and start adjusting someones image that they're sharing with other members without asking first, unless of course they had requested so! It's just plain rude!

If I'd wanted to see what other members could produce from my photo I would have either stated so or posted it in the 'Critique Corner'. Maybe we could have a section where members are free to download images from other members and share their knowledge in improving it?

On the subject of the image appearing too dark, yes I agree, but on my laptop screen it looks fine so I think I have to calibrate in the near future?

Thanks once again for all your comments,

Paul

[Baadil]

Hi Paul,



I do not understand what all the fuss is about...:confused: It is not that your image was modified to add/remove people or may be someone cloned a head of something else etc.



What age have we come into? If someone simply tried to show you how they think it might look better, what is wrong with that? After all, is this not the goal here? To find what might be better? I am in no way saying you have to like the edits. Also would you rather have some psycho out there collecting all your images, edited or not, and not tell you about it or some enthusiast try to enhance and show you what can be done with the pic.



What’s the difference between telling you:

Duplicate Layer

Add Gaussian Blur 2.5 etc etc

Change Opacity to 73%



and showing you the actual edit along with it? If a person just tells you the steps with some setting, there is no way for you to tell if they have actually modified your image or not already on their PC.



So my recommendation for you is to relax and lighten-up. This is a public forum and your “ask first’ will only deter people from showing what can be done. If I post an image and someone has only few minutes to spend on it, I would rather they edit my image and post it than to post a message asking permission first and wait hours before they can do something with it.

Thanks. :cool:

[paulhillion]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. I posted in a 'Photo Sharing' section, just because it's public doesn't mean people have the right to do with my images what they wish, however bad or incorrectly processed those images maybe.

[kawter2]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. I posted in a 'Photo Sharing' section, just because it's public doesn't mean people have the right to do with my images what they wish, however bad or incorrectly processed those images maybe.


maybee it would be good for us to have some kind of creative commons licensing etc..


For me, if I posted a shot of a parked car and someone edited it.. humn I wouldn't really care, but If i posted a shot of some customers (lets say "bridesmaids") and several people wanted to edit it and post it.. then we might have an issue, you are now crossing the line IMO..

That is why it just seems easier for everyone involved to ask!! IMO If you are REALLY trying to help you would not have a fuss if someone wants you to ASK... It hints of misguided motives if someone is put out to ask for permission to edit property..

[jukas]

How arrogant can some of you people be? If I was in Paul's place and I nicely asked someone to ask before editing my images and got the response he's gotten I'd simply stop posting here and as much as I like POTN it's certainly not the only good photography forum on the net.

Who do some of you think you are to bash and flame him and go so far as to tell him to lighten up because you don't agree with his preferences? The people who are complaining the loudest about how it should be their god given right to edit a photo posted in a section intended for sharing, not critiquing should take a good hard look at themselves.

How would you like it if I walked into your house and started re-arranging the furniture and decorations? I bet every single person here who's squawked about editing his images would be pissed as hell if I did that. :rolleyes:

[tiptop70]

... wow, popular post - i adore this photograph. the faces are a bit dark, but nothing some curves adj. can't fix and or tweaking the RAW file is that's how it was shot. wedding photos can be really dull affairs. i am drawn to photojournalism and this has that style. it's the kind of image that makes me want to see more from the series.

[ayotnoms]

How arrogant can some of you people be? If I was in Paul's place and I nicely asked someone to ask before editing my images and got the response he's gotten I'd simply stop posting here and as much as I like POTN it's certainly not the only good photography forum on the net.

Who do some of you think you are to bash and flame him and go so far as to tell him to lighten up because you don't agree with his preferences? The people who are complaining the loudest about how it should be their god given right to edit a photo posted in a section intended for sharing, not critiquing should take a good hard look at themselves.

How would you like it if I walked into your house and started re-arranging the furniture and decorations? I bet every single person here who's squawked about editing his images would be pissed as hell if I did that. :rolleyes:

Amen

If you like a post, say so.
If you don't, say so (maybe stating why) or if you're like me, just move along.
If you have a re-image idea (lighting, camera settings, etc), share it.
If you can't put into words, ask the person posting if it's OK to reprocess and repost. The people here are so nice, 90%+ will say, "Go for it".

If that's too much for you to bear, reprocess and enjoy it in the comfort of your own home.

[kawter2]

How arrogant can some of you people be? If I was in Paul's place and I nicely asked someone to ask before editing my images and got the response he's gotten I'd simply stop posting here and as much as I like POTN it's certainly not the only good photography forum on the net.

Who do some of you think you are to bash and flame him and go so far as to tell him to lighten up because you don't agree with his preferences? The people who are complaining the loudest about how it should be their god given right to edit a photo posted in a section intended for sharing, not critiquing should take a good hard look at themselves.

How would you like it if I walked into your house and started re-arranging the furniture and decorations? I bet every single person here who's squawked about editing his images would be pissed as hell if I did that. :rolleyes:

Doubble amen!! Preach it Pastor!!! :D :D :D

[jfrancho]

Paul, I've looked at your site before, and went back for a refresh. This indeed a departure from your other photography. I think that you "just picked up your camera and snapped" speaks more to your instinctual ability to to set up and compose a nice picture. I for one like the tonal range, and sharp definition, as this is how I would expect to see it with my own eye, minus the color, of course. Any lightening would surely result in some tonal loss in the flattening of the contrast that would be necessary to accomodate such an adjustment without getting blown out highlights. To summarize, cool shot.

I also don't like it when someone contributes unsolicited work to my images. It doesn't help me learn anything when someone does it for me.

I hope you don't mind, I've edited one of my self portraits, you can link to it here (http://plan-b.smugmug.com/photos/22591138-L.jpg).

[kawter2]

I hope you don't mind, I've edited one of my self portraits, you can link to it here (http://plan-b.smugmug.com/photos/22591138-L.jpg).


rotflmao!!!

[ayotnoms]

I hope you don't mind, I've edited one of my self portraits, you can link to it here (http://plan-b.smugmug.com/photos/22591138-L.jpg).

now there's a re-processing job I can get behind. LOL LOL

[witchy]

I'm a newbie here, I've only been a member for a few weeks. I am also a novice when it comes to photography and post editing.

This forum has already taught me so much, I appreciate everyone that has commented on my photos and/or helped improve them. I have only had one pic edited by another member and he asked permission (which I thought was lovely)..However, it wouldn't bother me if permission wasn't asked.

For me I am posting my pics to get opinions (good or bad)..This is how you learn. I haven't yet posted any pics in the critique forum, mainly because I have seen the quality of pics posted there and I don't feel mine are the same quality.

Another thing I wanted to say..Someone commented on the OP being bashed and flamed. I have been to other forums and believe me, this forum has to be the politest one I have been too. Everyone here is so friendly and helpful. Other forums can be very nasty. I am not talking about photography forums, just forums in general.

I thought that this discussion was very civil.

Finally I just wanted to comment on this quote

2. Quick critiques…”cool shot. Cute. Neat picture.” These are great comments to get but again, it is not really teaching you anything.

I do the above, reason...I have no experience to comment otherwise. If I like a pic, I just say so but I cannot critique a picture. I have no experience to do so :)

[kawter2]

I hope you don't mind, I've edited one of my self portraits, you can link to it here (http://plan-b.smugmug.com/photos/22591138-L.jpg).


I hope you dont mind, I have edited your avatar because i thight it could use a little help.. lol

[jfrancho]

I'm a newbie here, I've only been a member for a few weeks. I am also a novice when it comes to photography and post editing.

This forum has already taught me so much, I appreciate everyone that has commented on my photos and/or helped improve them. I have only had one pic edited by another member and he asked permission (which I thought was lovely)..However, it wouldn't bother me if permission wasn't asked.

For me I am posting my pics to get opinions (good or bad)..This is how you learn. I haven't yet posted any pics in the critique forum, mainly because I have seen the quality of pics posted there and I don't feel mine are the same quality.

Another thing I wanted to say..Someone commented on the OP being bashed and flamed. I have been to other forums and believe me, this forum has to be the politest one I have been too. Everyone here is so friendly and helpful. Other forums can be very nasty. I am not talking about photography forums, just forums in general.

I thought that this discussion was very civil.

Finally I just wanted to comment on this quote



I do the above, reason...I have no experience to comment otherwise. If I like a pic, I just say so but I cannot critique a picture. I have no experience to do so :)But, what did you think of Paul's picture?

[witchy]

What did I think?

To me it looks dark :) Otherwise a nice photo.

[smittymike19]

How would you like it if I walked into your house and started re-arranging the furniture and decorations? I bet every single person here who's squawked about editing his images would be pissed as hell if I did that. :rolleyes:

well if i could click a button and undo everything all of the changes, id be up to it. like i said before its a good learning tool to see others viewpoints. and on that note, i am actually interested in talking to an interior designer as i am not happy about my decorating. so I would more than welcome your suggestions on my furniture arrangemnts. as long as i could click a button and undo the changes there is abslutely no harm done. But for all of the sensitive egos, i would suggest putting a bold disclaimer stating "DO NOT EDIT". Easily solved. then if someone did edit it we could have them BANNED for life, as sharpening/lightening/saturating a picture is a disgusting barbaric act. right up there with defacing religious art.:rolleyes:

[ayotnoms]

But, what did you think of Paul's picture?
Dang. I forgot to mention in my earlier post.
Paul, on my work monitor, the photo was indeed dark. When I got home and viewed it on my powerbook screen, the tonal quality was just fine. FYI

[kawter2]

But for all of the sensitive egos, i would suggest putting a bold disclaimer stating "DO NOT EDIT". Easily solved.

You really don't see a difference here?

Scenario 1
You snap pictures of your kids, share them in "people... someone helps and posts... cool deal they gave me a better picture..

Scenario 2
You share some pictures from a recent event that you were hired to shoot in the people section. A few people try to modify your image to their taste....

Lets take it further
Then the customer does a search for your website and gets POTN in the results because of your signature..

The see that people are having a field day with their mugshot..



But for all of the sensitive egos, i would suggest putting a bold disclaimer stating "DO NOT EDIT". Easily solved.


Sensitive EGOS!!! you have got to be kidding me.. you want unsolicitedly to modify someones artwork, adding your artistic impressions, then share it online for the world to see... and you think i have a sensitive egos because I wan't you to ask me first!!!!


wow, I am baffeled...

[witchy]

Lets take it further
Then the customer does a search for your website and gets POTN in the results because of your signature..

The see that people are having a field day with their mugshot..

How does this work with a pic of a third party. Should their permission be gotten to post their pic on the web.

Just curious..Don't know how I would feel if a photographer posted my pic on a site like this without asking.

[kawter2]

How does this work with a pic of a third party. Should their permission be gotten to post their pic on the web.

Just curious..Don't know how I would feel if a photographer posted my pic on a site like this without asking.


I worry about the relations with my customer... I am the one that suffers if they are unhappy, and thus i post images and certain modifications that i feel comfortable with them seeing.. (it is my risk that i could lose business)

however you have no idea of my customers and also you do not suffer if they are pissed of because you tried to color correct and you made her look green etc.. now you are jeopardizing my business.


If you ask, I then am responsible for the decision i make, and I can make an educated decision based on all my variables

[smittymike19]

You really don't see a difference here?

Scenario 1
You snap pictures of your kids, share them in "people... someone helps and posts... cool deal they gave me a better picture..

Scenario 2
You share some pictures from a recent event that you were hired to shoot in the people section. A few people try to modify your image to their taste....

Lets take it further
Then the customer does a search for your website and gets POTN in the results because of your signature..

The see that people are having a field day with their mugshot..






Sensitive EGOS!!! you have got to be kidding me.. you want unsolicitedly to modify someones artwork, adding your artistic impressions, then share it online for the world to see... and you think i have a sensitive egos because I wan't you to ask me first!!!!


wow, I am baffeled...

hey man im not quite sure if you are having a bad day or what but you really seem to be going over the top by something very trivial. if i were a professional, i would NEVER put pictures of my clients on the web without their consent. its seems very UN professional imho. The file is digital. as such i realize that anyone can download it and do what they wish with it, so i would just steer clear of the whole issue. but, if i were to look online and see that the version of a picture of me (the client) had been lightened (GASP) i would be off to the lawyers, cause nobody, AND I MEAN NOBODY, lightens/sharpens/saturates a picture of me and gets away with it.:rolleyes: if you dont want to give people a digital file to have as their own, dont post it here.

[witchy]

You don't have to worry about me altering anyone's pics. I am flat out trying to get mine right. :)

I do see your point...Just wondered if customers permission was sought first?

[smittymike19]

I worry about the relations with my customer... I am the one that suffers if they are unhappy, and thus i post images and certain modifications that i feel comfortable with them seeing.. (it is my risk that i could lose business)

however you have no idea of my customers and also you do not suffer if they are pissed of because you tried to color correct and you made her look green etc.. now you are jeopardizing my business.


If you ask, I then am responsible for the decision i make, and I can make an educated decision based on all my variables

as a customer i would be more upset that you had posted my picture on the web, than the CONSTRUCTIVE advice that followed. you act as if mods were done that put the peoples heads on naked bodies or some other compromising situation. we are talking about LIGHTENING and soft focuing the picture. i

[kawter2]

hey man im not quite sure if you are having a bad day or what but you really seem to be going over the top by something very trivial.

Naah, I'm having a great day.. but thanks for giving me an out ;)


if i were a professional, i would NEVER put pictures of my clients on the web without their consent. its seems very UN professional imho.

Are we role playing now? .. if so.. "if I were a non-professional wanting to help, I would NEVER mess with someones stuff with out asking" it seems very self-centered.


if you don't want to give people a digital file to have as their own, don't post it here.


haha I love simple logic. "If you don't like my help.. dont ever post" haha wtf man, lollol



. The file is digital. as such i realize that anyone can download it and do what they wish with it, so i would just steer clear of the whole issue.


Tell that to corbis, getty etc..

[kawter2]

as a customer i would be more upset that you had posted my picture on the web, than the CONSTRUCTIVE advice that followed. you act as if mods were done that put the peoples heads on naked bodies or some other compromising situation. we are talking about LIGHTENING and soft focuing the picture. i

I am not debating what customers get upsetover.. I take the risk for sharing my interpretations of their work, and I can and do cover that in a signed contract, these variables are under my control.




CONSTRUCTIVE advice is ALWAYS welcome@!!!!! Just seems that if you were genuinely wanting to help you wouldn't be offended that I would like you to ask before modifying someones work and posting your artistic interpretation of my customer

[smittymike19]

[QUOTE





Tell that to corbis, getty etc..[/QUOTE]

apparantly they are concerned about what people do with the pics so you shouldnt either. or dont post them (didnt i already say that). ?

[kawter2]

apparantly they are concerned about what people do with the pics so you shouldnt either. or dont post them (didnt i already say that). ?

eh, you might want to re-read that one because im confused

[smittymike19]

CONSTRUCTIVE advice is ALWAYS welcome@!!!!! Just seems that if you were genuinely wanting to help you wouldn't be offended that I would like you to ask before modifying someones work and posting your artistic interpretation of my customer


I sat back and realized something, NOBODY TOUCHED YOUR PHOTOS HERE!!. this isnt your post, you hijacked the poor guys post. that is just plain rude.

[smittymike19]

:confused: Oh the funny thing here is that you keep repeating over and over how this forum is for showing the pictures and getting responses. yet you have posted about 20 times and STILL have not commented on the poor guys picture, you used it as a place to vent your frustraions over how people edit YOUR pictures without asking. NOBODY HERE TOUCH YOUR STUFF. maybe on one of your posts they did, but here,no.:confused: sorry but i just think its inconsiderate to hijack. I am guilty of helping you do it right now, so i am finished. go surfing and have a beer, lifes too short.:) peace.

[kawter2]

I sat back and realized something, NOBODY TOUCHED YOUR PHOTOS HERE!!. this isnt your post, you hijacked the poor guys post. that is just plain rude.


OHHHH the irony, Let me get this straight mike..

I can't be upset because of the re-occuring theme of image modification?

but you can have an issue with people commenting on what "the poor guy" said about "ask next time please"


I think you are just looking to throw gas on a fire mike. It wouldn't be outside your M.O.

[smittymike19]

here is how i see it. i would suggest to everyone that you do not ever comment on KAWTERs posts. today we are being crucified for posting edits because it"may make his customers mad". who knows, down the road you may have a new stipulation, COMMENTING on the pictures (not editing), well that could bring up the whole topic of questioning his professional skills. his customer may think, "well i like the shots but im no expert. apparantly the experts on this forum were all saying the picture wasnt that good. And to top it off they wanted to show him how to make it better and he was so stubborn headed he wouldnt allow it. eesh ill never use him again". Then he will get on here and bash us all for telling him his pictures were bad on a public forum. man the nerve of you people, how dare you say something other than "neat" or "cute".:rolleyes:

[smittymike19]

oh by the way kawter i took a look at your site and you have some awesome shots there. Nice work.

[jukas]

well if i could click a button and undo everything all of the changes, id be up to it. like i said before its a good learning tool to see others viewpoints. and on that note, [b]i am actually interested in talking to an interior designer as i am not happy about my decorating[b]. so I would more than welcome your suggestions on my furniture arrangemnts. as long as i could click a button and undo the changes there is abslutely no harm done. But for all of the sensitive egos, i would suggest putting a bold disclaimer stating "DO NOT EDIT". Easily solved. then if someone did edit it we could have them BANNED for life, as sharpening/lightening/saturating a picture is a disgusting barbaric act. right up there with defacing religious art.:rolleyes:

See that's just it, you are looking for that help, I am not. Give me a break though, you expect me to believe if you came home one night, and found me in your house uninvited you'd be happy as long as I put everything back the way it was?

If I came home and found someone had broken into my house and was still there, I'd shoot them and call the sheriff, but that's an entirely different discussion ;)

You being interested in talking to a designer is completely different from one just barging in, making changes while you are away and saying "there you go". Even if you were ok with that, would that give you the right to go off on your neighbor because they weren't?

If you want people to respect your work and acknowledge your opinions you have to be willing to do the same. Paul doesn't want people retouching his photos without asking and frankly I don't blame him. I don't particularly want someone re-editing my image unless I've asked for it. The difference here is that even if I didn't agree with him, I'd respect his wishes whereas other people have basically resorted to name calling and blaming him that he should have expected it.

[kawter2]

here is how i see it. i would suggest to everyone that you do not ever comment on KAWTERs posts. today we are being crucified for posting edits because it"may make his customers mad". who knows, down the road you may have a new stipulation, COMMENTING on the pictures (not editing), well that could bring up the whole topic of questioning his professional skills. his customer may think, "well i like the shots but im no expert. apparantly the experts on this forum were all saying the picture wasnt that good. And to top it off they wanted to show him how to make it better and he was so stubborn headed he wouldnt allow it. eesh ill never use him again". Then he will get on here and bash us all for telling him his pictures were bad on a public forum. man the nerve of you people, how dare you say something other than "neat" or "cute".:rolleyes:

oh by the way kawter i took a look at your site and you have some awesome shots there. Nice work.


That has to be the most bi-polar oposite back to back post, serriously mike, I read your posts and have no idea what to believe.. I have no idea what you are truly saying and what your are typing in jest to get a rise out of members..

[ayotnoms]

oh by the way kawter i took a look at your site and you have some awesome shots there. Nice work.

I also have admired Eric's work which is undoubtedly why he --rightfully, in my opinion-- has such strong feelings about this.

Getting back to the 2nd point (the 1st point being Paul's post :-)), you can never go wrong with being courteous with someone's intellectual property. Using three simple words, "Would you mind?..." is not unreasonable.

Yes this is the internet....a public forum. But just as a person's car in a public parking garage remains his/her property, so too is the case with images posted on this forum.

..unless they start permitting anonymous posts. :-)

As SmittyMike sez, Peace

[smittymike19]

That has to be the most bi-polar oposite back to back post, serriously mike, I read your posts and have no idea what to believe.. I have no idea what you are truly saying and what your are typing in jest to get a rise out of members..

not quite sure what you mean. do i think you are being absurd about this ? absolutely. that does not mean that i dont think you have good stuff. the difference here is that you are trying to be personal, im not.:)

[Pekka]

OK time out.

From now on we do it so:
If you do not get a written permission to edit that photo, you may not edit that photo and post the edited photo back. This applies ALL FORUMS. Giving the permission can be simply "post processing examples welcome."

I've added this to posting guidelines info on each share forum.

[paulhillion]

OK time out.

From now on we do it so:
If you do not get a written permission to edit that photo, you may not edit that photo and post the edited photo back. This applies ALL FORUMS. Giving the permission can be simply "post processing examples welcome."

I've added this to posting guidelines info on each share forum.Thank you Pekka.

[Wazza]

Well done Pekka. Thank you for your continued support. :)

As for the original photo, it's a nice quick capture, and looks good. Just what's already been said, it's just a wee bit dark, but changing the levels from 255 down to 225 or so, brightens it up a wee bit.

I like your work Paul. Keep it up. :D

[kawter2]

Thanks Pekka

BTW.. back on track, the image does appear dark in IE, but I checked it and it is mostly because the way IE handles images with 20% dot grain.. Try to convert images to sRGB before saving them if you want them to be seen on the web..

[Maureen Souza]

Personally, I don't think the picture flatters either subject. We agree here it is too dark...but those girls don't look very happy for being at such a joyous occasion. The girl on the right has too much hair falling forward...it is overbearing in the photo to me.

[Claire]

I have to agree with Maureen here. The first two things that hit me when viewing the picture was that it's too dark and the girls look unhappy. They should be smiling! Especially the right girl looks...oh gosh, I don't mean anything mean, but she looks a bit...devilish. :o No offense.

I don't know if you've sharpened the image or if the 1.4 is that sharp, but it probably wouldn't hurt to soften it a bit. Also cleaning up the right girl's skin would be more flattering for her. When it comes to dark rings under the eyes I personally use the clone tool to lighten them.

Otherwise nice picture. :)

[paulhillion]

Too many to name but a big thank you to all of you who took the time to offer advice and to leave feedback on the image. I've taken it all on board and as soon as I get chance I'll try applying some of the things mentioned to this photo.

Learning all the time :)

Have a great weekend all!

Paul