70-200 f/4L for a concert

[SBMP]

Hi, soon I'm attending my first concert as a photographer. Since I will be standing in the press area, and it's going to be my first time, I don't really know which lens I should bring...
I'm thinking of a 70-200 f/4L, but I'm not sure. I've read that the min. focus distance is about 3.9' (1.2 m), and maybe that's enough..? I also read that the USM focuses very accurately..
If anyone can help me choose, I would be thankfully.

[2004ep3hatch]

I would love to have that chance! Well if you don't have a 300 then yea the 70-200 it is. I would get the IS at least if you can't afford the 2.8IS. It will help you with good low light shots.

That is me tho. How far are you from the stage? maybe you won't need 300mm.

[EcoRick]

I've owned the 70-200 4.0 and ended up selling it because it simply was too slow for indoor/available light shots. In my opinion, 2.8 is even a stretch. I've gone to faster primes to handle low light situations. It might be more switching of lenses, but if you bump up the ISO and open up a fast prime, you have a much better chance for a good shot indoors.

[bohdank]

I have never had a problem keeping shuutter speeds in the 1/250 or faster range with my 70-200 at large music concerts/events-under-lights. It does mean you are shooting at ISO1600 but I have no concerns with noise on the 5D. Last year I was shooting with a 40D and the results at ISO1600 were good (enough). Would a 2.8 be better. Not necessarily. At close range, you don't have all that much DOF. It might suit how you want to shoot, it might not.

If you have access to the front of the stage, a 70-200 is certainly long enough. A 24-70 range might be a good idea to bring along also.

I generally just set the camera to AI Servo/Manual/ISO1600/F4, 1/320s as a starting pont.

I have a few events posted on Smugmug, almost all shot with the 70-200. Just set up the site so have been concentrating on quantity of images rather than quality. :-)

[SBMP]

First of all, thanks for your fast replies. I see I've found a reliable and awesome photography forum, which I have been looking for...

I would love to have that chance! Well if you don't have a 300 then yea the 70-200 it is. I would get the IS at least if you can't afford the 2.8IS. It will help you with good low light shots.

That is me tho. How far are you from the stage? maybe you won't need 300mm.
I will be standing in an area of 0-4 metres from the stage, just in front of the paying VIP's (haha, I'm in for free), so I will be able to get pretty close to the artists.

I have never had a problem keeping shuutter speeds in the 1/250 or faster range with my 70-200 at large music concerts/events-under-lights. It does mean you are shooting at ISO1600 but I have no concerns with noise on the 5D. Last year I was shooting with a 40D and the results at ISO1600 were good (enough). Would a 2.8 be better. Not necessarily. At close range, you don't have all that much DOF. It might suit how you want to shoot, it might not.

If you have access to the front of the stage, a 70-200 is certainly long enough. A 24-70 range might be a good idea to bring along also.

I generally just set the camera to AI Servo/Manual/ISO1600/F4, 1/320s as a starting pont.

I have a few events posted on Smugmug, almost all shot with the 70-200. Just set up the site so have been concentrating on quantity of images rather than quality. :-)
Well, it's an outdoor event, and as told, I will be in like 0-4 metres from the stage - I might be able to get my arms on the edge of the stage.
I only got my T1i for equipment, but I might be able to rent some lenses. I've experienced some ISO1600 grains (although there was IS on the lens I tested with). But yeah, I didn't expect the 2.8 to suit me better, since I will be standing that close.
I will definitely bring a 24-70 ;) but I just wanted to know if a 70-200 would fit the area...

By the way, cool gallery you got there :)

[oaktree]

For concerts, I usually take lenses that at f/2.8 or faster. But, this is when I had only the XTi at ISO 1600.

Now that I have a 5D2, I bet the 70-200/4 IS will also "work". But I'd be at ISO 3200-6400.

[bohdank]

First of all, thanks for your fast replies. I see I've found a reliable and awesome photography forum, which I have been looking for...


I will be standing in an area of 0-4 metres from the stage, just in front of the paying VIP's (haha, I'm in for free), so I will be able to get pretty close to the artists.


Well, it's an outdoor event, and as told, I will be in like 0-4 metres from the stage - I might be able to get my arms on the edge of the stage.
I only got my T1i for equipment, but I might be able to rent some lenses. I've experienced some ISO1600 grains (although there was IS on the lens I tested with). But yeah, I didn't expect the 2.8 to suit me better, since I will be standing that close.
I will definitely bring a 24-70 ;) but I just wanted to know if a 70-200 would fit the area...

By the way, cool gallery you got there :)

Thanks....

If that close, you'll probably be using a 24-70 range more than a 70-200 although the latter would be good for (very) tight shots. Considering performers rarely stand still, nailing focus can become a bit of a problem. F2.8 is not needed (there's usually plenty of light), and DOF, as I mentioned earlier can become an issue.

I also would not be shy using an outboared flash. It can make a big difference. When done right, it does not detract from the existing stage lighting and mood. I'm starting to use more and more flash although I don't see myself going to a flash all the time. Sometimes it just doesn't look right but is definately worthwhile for some of the shots.

There are quite a few flash assisted shots in my gallery, especially the Fashion Week ones.

[90c4]

You'll find that f4 isn't fast enough if it's a night concert - you really need at least f2.8. I shot the Allman Brothers last night and went up to f3.5 at ISO 1600 during the bright scenes, but most of the night I was at f2.8 and lower. If it's a daytime show, you'll be OK.

[90c4]

Thanks....

I also would not be shy using an outboared flash. It can make a big difference. When done right, it does not detract from the existing stage lighting and mood. I'm starting to use more and more flash although I don't see myself going to a flash all the time. Sometimes it just doesn't look right but is definately worthwhile for some of the shots.

There are quite a few flash assisted shots in my gallery, especially the Fashion Week ones.

Most bands don't allow flash, and it also usually ruins the shot unless absolutely necessary. I'd certainly check before using it.

[bohdank]

So you contradict me ;-) Check my "event" galleries. None of those shots are "pushed". F4 is fine 90% of the time.

[DDCSD]

So you contradict me ;-) Check my "event" galleries. None of those shots are "pushed". F4 is fine 90% of the time.


Not in my experience. F/2.8 is barely acceptable at 90% of concerts. Huge bands, sometimes.

And flash is almost always forbidden. A good way to get grabbed and escorted out of the building.

[District_History_Fan]

This shot was taken with a 70-200 f4L at a Fourth of July event. These guys are a bit less animated than the typical headbangers, so shutter speed wasn't a huge issue. ;)

I used a tripod which you probably won't be allowed to use. My new 70-200 f4L IS could have gotten the shot handheld. :D

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3075/2638446414_922e0e81cd_o.jpg

[DDCSD]

Hi, soon I'm attending my first concert as a photographer. Since I will be standing in the press area, and it's going to be my first time, I don't really know which lens I should bring...
I'm thinking of a 70-200 f/4L, but I'm not sure. I've read that the min. focus distance is about 3.9' (1.2 m), and maybe that's enough..? I also read that the USM focuses very accurately..
If anyone can help me choose, I would be thankfully.


Welcome to POTN!!!

Mind if we ask what band? Might give us an idea of what kind of lighting to expect.

Also, have you seen the performing arts section? There's a few guys over there that shoot concerts for a living and a bunch of others with a ton of experience.

Here is the discussion area:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=115

The photo sharing section:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=81

[bohdank]

Not in my experience. F/2.8 is barely acceptable at 90% of concerts. Huge bands, sometimes.

And flash is almost always forbidden. A good way to get grabbed and escorted out of the building.

My galleries do not lie :-)

[DDCSD]

My galleries do not lie :-)

I've literally never had enough light at a concert for 1/200, f/4, even at ISO 1600.


EDIT: Just looked. I had that much light in about half of my shots for Hinder.


But your events aren't typical concerts either. Judging by the titles, they are rather large festivals. Large festivals may have enough light, especially when they are held in a good facility with spotlights, but most concerts aren't.

[SBMP]

Thanks to all again.
See, it is an outdoor night event - from 7pm to 1am. So a heavy lens isn't what I wish ;)
Since it's an event here in Denmark (yeah, at the other side of the atlantic ocean) there are only a few internationally known artists, but the artist list is:
Mohamed Ali, Rasmus Seebach, David Guetta featuring Kelly Rowland & Chris Willis, Milow, Promoe, Pixie Lott, Joey Moe, Outlandish, Medina, Rune RK, Sukkerchok, Jooks, Jokeren, Celina Ree, Burhan G, Aqua, Agnes, Alien Beat Club.
I was in the crowd last year, and after what I remember from that night, the stage was lighted pretty much the whole time. But maybe you see some of the photos from last year (I didn't take them), and that might give you another view on the situation ;)

The artists are also to be seen here: http://www.thevoice.dk/voice09/artister
And a video from last years event is to be seen here: http://www.thevoice.dk/voice09/2887-behind-the-scenes-pa-voice-08

If you see the video from last year, you'll probably see that many of the artists do move around, so I think it would help me with high shutter speeds. But at the same time, I don't know yet if flash is allowed there - I don't think so (but I'll get some information about that soon)...

By the way, I think I also will be able to meet'n'greet the performers at the entrance (the big interview wall in the video).

EDIT: I found a link for more photos of last year's event. These are shot at the press area, and they are about what I expect to get. I really just don't want dark photos which can't be used.

[bohdank]

I've literally never had enough light at a concert for 1/200, f/4, even at ISO 1600.

But your events aren't typical concerts either. Judging by the titles, they are rather large festivals. Large festivals may have enough light, especially when they are held in a good facility with spotlights, but most concerts aren't.

That may be true. I have been to (small) clubs where f2.8 would not cut it. Then again, a 70-200 would not be a useful range in a small(er) venue anyway.

[_aravena]

Depends on the concert. I used a 100-400L once and they turned out great and we know how slow those are. Still, my 70-200 has been my main lens, eve when I'm close, but if you have two cameras, grab a tele and a long lens.

Once again people complain about wait. I hauled around a 7MDH full (for 6hrs) with 100-400L, 70-200 F2.8, 18-50 F2.8, 10-20, and a flash. Gold's Gym is only $20 I think. :p

[DDCSD]

That may be true. I have been to (small) clubs where f2.8 would not cut it. Then again, a 70-200 would not be a useful range in a small(er) venue anyway.


I use the 70-200 for about 70% of my shots, even in smaller venues.

[90c4]

So you contradict me ;-) Check my "event" galleries. None of those shots are "pushed". F4 is fine 90% of the time.

Unless I'm looking at the wrong page, aren't all of your concert shots outside (and daytime). I've shot hundreds of concerts - 4 this week alone - and I never find myself thinking, "man, this is too much light I'll need to stop it down a bit". F2.8 is as slow as most concert photographers would want to go. BTW, there's a separate concert photography forum on this board that would have been a better place to pose this question.

[SBMP]

BTW, there's a separate concert photography forum on this board that would have been a better place to pose this question.
Yeah, I've seen it now. But I haven't checked the whole forum out when I was posing this question - my bad.

[bohdank]

Unless I'm looking at the wrong page, aren't all of your concert shots outside (and daytime). I've shot hundreds of concerts - 4 this week alone - and I never find myself thinking, "man, this is too much light I'll need to stop it down a bit". F2.8 is as slow as most concert photographers would want to go. BTW, there's a separate concert photography forum on this board that would have been a better place to pose this question.

If you look at the end of each album, all those shots are in the evening. The shows all started late afternoon and ran into the night or started in the evening.

Date and time are available in the 'Phot info" for each shot.

[freebird]

Well , alot of folks have their own style of shooting concerts.

I prefer tight headshots or body shots with full guitar in pic. A fast focusing lens is a must for me for the bands I have photographed. Primes would be my choice but thats just me.

At the distance the OP mentioned , I would think a wider prime , at least 2.8 or faster. However, having said that your DOF is critical as some have mentioned.

Focus / Recompose does not work well with fast primes much, I would just have FUN, takes lots of shots and try different angles and be looking at backgrounds as you frame your images.

OHHHHHHHHH RAW!!

I wish I was 5D shooter bohdank:D, not fair:D

Good luck

[90c4]

To be clear, I'm not saying that f4+ can't be used at a concert, it's just that given the choice, the correct tool for the job is a faster lens.

[bohdank]

Well , alot of folks have their own style of shooting concerts.

I prefer tight headshots or body shots with full guitar in pic. A fast focusing lens is a must for me for the bands I have photographed. Primes would be my choice but thats just me.

At the distance the OP mentioned , I would think a wider prime , at least 2.8 or faster. However, having said that your DOF is critical as some have mentioned.

Focus / Recompose does not work well with fast primes much, I would just have FUN, takes lots of shots and try different angles and be looking at backgrounds as you frame your images.

OHHHHHHHHH RAW!!

I wish I was 5D shooter bohdank:D, not fair:D

Good luck

:-)

The 2008 stuff is all 40D but, yes, the 5D is a notceable improvement. Even focusses better than the 40D, and for the events, the outer focus points have worked well , for me. You just need to learn their idiosychracies. Still I imagine a 1D's AF woul be desirable. Next camera......

[District_History_Fan]

:-)

The 2008 stuff is all 40D but, yes, the 5D is a notceable improvement.

How is the 5D an improvement on the 40D?

[brownbugger]

70-200 f/4 depends ! I frankly dont remember a concert or dance that I shot where I was shooting below 800 ISO , the faster the lens the better, flash is almost always forbidden, plus all the lightworks behind add to a picture which flash might usually kill , having something wider is also recoomended , the last music concert I shot was in an indoor stage where I was shooting at very close distance and the 24-70 helped me immensely.

[bohdank]

How is the 5D an improvement on the 40D?

Lower noise at higher ISO. Larger, brighter viewfinder is also a plus. Better center point focusing, imo.

[District_History_Fan]

Lower noise at higher ISO. Larger, brighter viewfinder is also a plus. Better center point focusing, imo.

OK, thanks.

[Hogloff]

85 1.8, 135L and 200 2.8. This will get you by for most concerts.

[narlus]

85 1.8, 135L and 200 2.8. This will get you by for most concerts.

way too long a collection imo...

[SuzyView]

Welcome to the Forum! I shoot concerts, but with the 70-200 2.8 IS. Flash is never allowed. But the f4 version with flash is great. Good luck! Just sit near the front, really you can't get close enough.

[SBMP]

Welcome to the Forum! I shoot concerts, but with the 70-200 2.8 IS. Flash is never allowed. But the f4 version with flash is great. Good luck! Just sit near the front, really you can't get close enough.
Thanks ;)
Okay, I'm getting further information about use of flash soon.
I will be standing in the press pit, so I might be able to get my arms at the edge of the stage ;)

[SuzyView]

You would think 70mm is wide, it isn't. And 200mm is long, but it isn't. Just shoot RAW and hope there is little noise. Take the ISO as high as it can go if you cant' use flash.

[SBMP]

You would think 70mm is wide, it isn't. And 200mm is long, but it isn't. Just shoot RAW and hope there is little noise. Take the ISO as high as it can go if you cant' use flash.
Thanks :)
I will do my best :D

[SuzyView]

Gee, if you lived closer :) I'd lend you my 70-200 2.8 IS. That is truly the best concert lens. I took some at the YouTube Symphony earlier this year, no flash allowed and I was sitting on the 11th row.

http://sbphoto1.smugmug.com/photos/514417954_6SjHo-L.jpg

[SBMP]

Gee, if you lived closer :) I'd lend you my 70-200 2.8 IS. That is truly the best concert lens. I took some at the YouTube Symphony earlier this year, no flash allowed and I was sitting on the 11th row.
Omg, that's amazing. I would be happy if so ;)

[SuzyView]

Thanks. Just remember to have a steady hand, always. And a monopod may be useful here.

[SBMP]

Thanks. Just remember to have a steady hand, always. And a monopod may be useful here.
Okay, thanks for the advice. I'll see what I can get ;)

[SBMP]

Hey all, I just got further information. We are allowed to use flash throughout the concert, so I'm pleased :D I might publish some photos in the photo sharing forum. Thanks for the advices everyone :)

[René Damkot]

But the f4 version with flash is great.
No, it's not.
IMO, flash is no substitute for a fast lens. Ever.

If you use flash as main light, it will look like crap. If you use flash as fill, you still need a fast shutterspeed. So a fast lens is a must.

Maybe a 70-200 f/4 IS will cut it. Depends on the lighting.
You'll need 1/60s to 1/125s or so at least to freeze faces (if the performers aren't moving fast). At that slow a shutterspeed, you will get camera shake.

I've yet to see a concert that allows ISO 1600, 1/125s, f/4 for more then a short while...
(Unless we're talking Bruce Springsteen: That gave 1/250s, f/4, ISO 1600 more or less all the time IIRC. But that wasn't enough, since the lenses needed were 300mm and longer ;))

Having to wait for the lights to go extra bright before you can shoot is not what you want...

[SuzyView]

True, Rene, but I don't think he has a choice here. And if the concert allows the flashing, the 70mm will be much better than the long end, but he may not have a choice. I don't think he can rent a 70-200 2.8 IS in the meantime, and I have used the 70-200 f4 indoors, and it's slow. Very slow. For what he needs it for, this is his first time, he may need his other lenses if the f4 can't cut it.

[narlus]

No, it's not.
IMO, flash is no substitute for a fast lens. Ever.

If you use flash as main light, it will look like crap. If you use flash as fill, you still need a fast shutterspeed. So a fast lens is a must.

unless you stop down, shutter drag and blast 'em w/ light...but then the 70-200 is gonna be way too tight for that sort of shot. and that style is very subjective as to whether people like it or not.


I've yet to see a concert that allows ISO 1600, 1/125s, f/4 for more then a short while...
(Unless we're talking Bruce Springsteen: That gave 1/250s, f/4, ISO 1600 more or less all the time IIRC. But that wasn't enough, since the lenses needed were 300mm and longer ;))


i've had a few shows where i was comfortably stopping down to f/5.6 or greater, at ISO 640 and had plenty of shutter speed (Deep Purple, Whitesnake, DEVO) but not many. actually, the recent Heaven and Hell show had similar conditions (mainly shot @ f/4, ISO 1000, shutters in the 100-400 range). must be something about those old metal guys who like the hot light.

[gtvone]

Use mostly my 24-70 2.8.. Also use the 100-400 a lot (5DMk2) - next lens most def 70-200 2.8 - Have hired / used the f/2.8 and the f/4 and for my money would not bother with the f/4... That said, the 100-400 may be f/4.5-5.7 but works just fine..

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2594/3827129155_aeed0dbfe4.jpg

[narlus]

well there's a pretty big difference between the lights for 'generic band x' and a spotlight for Bono. :lol:

[SuzyView]

I like that spotlight on Bono. I haven't gone to a rock concert since my ears got blasted the last time. But I shoot orchestra concerts where lighting is awful, very harsh. The f4 is actually not awful for those bright stage lights. For a band, though, it can be tricky and the color lights are difficult to manage at best.

[gtvone]

well there's a pretty big difference between the lights for 'generic band x' and a spotlight for Bono. :lol:I thought there would be, too... but after a couple of years of just doing music, there ain't all that much difference... it's like the follow spot guys were all on acid... *owww, look at the pretty lights*

[gtvone]

I like that spotlight on Bono. I haven't gone to a rock concert since my ears got blasted the last time. - Always take ear plugs or your ipod if you're shooting someone horrid! haha

But I shoot orchestra concerts where lighting is awful, very harsh. The f4 is actually not awful for those bright stage lights. For a band, though, it can be tricky and the color lights are difficult to manage at best.Hey Suzy - yep, sometimes there is enough light... not often though, even at these bigger gigs... (Benicassim, 60mtr stage, wind made them take down all the follow spots, made the lighting all red and back lit... ugh) I've shot classic a couple of times, the biggest problem I had (used the 100-400 because of where they wanted me) was not noise in the images but noise from the shutter in the ultra quiet environment! felt VERY self conscious about the shutter sound..

S

[René Damkot]

since my ears got blasted the last time.

Invest in ear plugs before you invest in glass ;)

[DDCSD]

Invest in ear plugs before you invest in glass ;)

Yep, amazing how well earplugs work and you can actually hear the concert better.

[90c4]

On the subject of earplugs, I feel I should point out that one of the best investments of my life was in customized earplugs http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx. They seemed ridiculously expensive at the time - I think the plugs and fitting were $150 about 18 years ago - but I still have them and have used them at hundreds and hundreds of concerts. They attenuate each frequency by the same amount so it's like turning down the volume... or using a neutral density filter. I use the 15db filters and find that they're sufficient for 95% of the shows I see, and use foam ones only when necessary.

[narlus]

or spend the $15 on the ER-20s :D

[90c4]

or spend the $15 on the ER-20s :D

I tried those out but didn't like having the long plastic bit sticking out. But the bottom line is, hearing loss is often permanent so whether you shove cigarette butts in your ears or custom-molded earplugs, do something to take care of your hearing. Not directed at narlus - I've never seen him without plugs.

[SBMP]

Hi, the concert was great, and it really was a great experience for me.
I actually got some nice photos, and they can be seen here:
http://galleri.ungupdates.dk/#3
I shot many of the photos in Tv program, with shutter speed set to 1/800-1/1250. The lights were okay, so I had many great lightnings. Of course the photos were shot in Raw ;)

Thanks for the advises, but I forgot to bring my 24-70, so I used my 18-55. It turned out really well :)
Btw, I saw three photographers who used the 70-200 f/2.8 and they told they were heavy ;)

[DDCSD]

1/800-1/1250 at f/4?!?!? That is a ton of light! Looks like good quality light from the photos.


Some great shots in the gallery. Try to get the singers when they aren't eating the mic and be careful with the up the nose shots. :)