Panasonic GF-1 vs G11

[Jannie]

This is starting to get confusing, we have the G11 which looks very familiar but has a completely new sensor which might push it to the front of all, I certainly like being already familiar with the controls.

Then the Olympus but today, maybe all of you knew about this but I was startled to see this: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090204panasonicdmcgf1.asp regarding a new Panasonic camera in the mix. Already it kind of looks better than the Oly but the zoom is kinda huge and there is only one length of pancake lens like the Oly as well and unless they really offer up some incredible IQ, the G11's fold up zoom still looks great.

Of course the bottom line always starts with us saying we want better image quality from tiny cameras and then when they come out, it's quesitonable because of lens choices etc. and it gets cloudy very fast.

Don't know what the Panasonic will cost either but my guess will be the same as the Oly so that once again puts the G11 at a completely different price point and different group of buyers. This is all interesting.

[10megapixel]

Looks great, but it lacks the in body IS that the EP1 has :-( It's nice that it has fast AF like the G1, plus a built in flash.
DP Preview only has 1 sample pic @ ISO 1600 and it was shot in broad daylight, I hate when they do that.

[cmdisme]

GF1 = $899, shallower DoF, clean up to 1600iso (based on GH1), HD video, but a slower f/3.5-5.6 28-90 and larger size (~3.5" with lens)

G11 = $499, small sensor DoF, maybe clean up to 400-800? (yet to know), nearly 1 stop faster lens, 28-140 and easier to slip into a small bag

My questions would be:

How clean is the G11 -- claiming 2 stops, which with its faster lens puts it on par with the GF1 + zoom kit.

With a 28-90 range is the GF1 going to be sharp enough to crop images to match the G11? For me, 28-140 is an ideal range.

http://news.cnet.com/i/bto/20090901/gf1ovr_610x466.jpg

[Jannie]

I actually would not be interested in the GF-1 with the zoom, it's too clumsy, but I would be interested in the pancake lens that is a 40mm equivalent f1.7. But not having body IS seems crazy, the IS in my G9 was really excellent.

Some combination out of all of these is going to have to make sense, the combination of still not clunky like a DSLR but with high IQ will have to come together. The thing is we can't really expect additional lenses to be made later for any of these because the cameras change so often.

I might have gotten really excited if my local dealer had had the pancake lens available when they showed me the Oly, if the image quality had been really great. They are pretty cool about testing new gear when it comes out, taking shots and printing them up right there in the store so you can see some real life comparisons but they only had the Oly zoom which did not make me want it over even the existing G10, but it felt oooooh so good in the hand.

[EORI]

I am drooling to get my hands on the GF-1 for a test run. I've been searching for a compact camera that I can take on trips where photography is not the primary objective, without losing the 3 most important features to me of the DSLR; shallow DOF control, precise selection of focus points, and usable higher ISO.

I previously bought the G7, but it pretty much sat collecting dust, with probably no more than a few hundred shots taken before I recently gave it to my daughter. It had plenty of manual control, but the slow built-in lens and the small sensor made the aperture control pretty meaningless. Images were fairly grainy above 200 ISO, which limited its use to daylight hours on sunny days. Focus point selection was also a challenge. The camera was essentially a glorified P&S, without the convenience of a compact, pocketable size. I always ended up grabbing the DSLR instead. For the ultimate in pocketable P&S, I recently bought the SD780IS.

If the GF-1 can deliver near-DSLR image quality, it would seem to be the ideal kit for travels where weight and size are important.

[twnll]

If the GF-1 can deliver near-DSLR image quality, it would seem to be the ideal kit for travels where weight and size are important.

Why shouldn't the GF-1 offer DSLR quality since it has a much bigger sensor than the G11? BUT.....

My take is - I will have a G11 for everyday use and a cheap and lightweight APS-C DSLR like a Nikon D40 or D60 or the new D3000 with a decent kit lens for travel.

Reason is - I cannot make do without an Optical View Finder. PnS like th e G11 excepted because I can't see much through it anyway.

Another reason - a G11 + D40 + kit lens cost abt the same as a GF-1 + EVF + 2 kit lenses (the 14-42 zoom isn't that compact as a package)

And another reason - I got two cameras for travel - the G11 is a good backup.

In my opinion, the E-P1 and GF-1 are niche products, desirable yes, necessary no. To me the 4/3rd system is irrelevant. APS-C would cream any 4/3rd sensor any day.

[roger767]

why not a 500d with a prime lens, 500d is hated for its small size. Yet people want small compacts with dslr IQ.....

[EORI]

why not a 500d with a prime lens, 500d is hated for its small size. Yet people want small compacts with dslr IQ.....

Even the 500d is very large by comparison. Take a look at this video clip showing the GF-1's larger, bulkier predecessor, compared with the XSi.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/videos/g1-compare.shtml

[Jannie]

If I decide to travel this year, it is very likely that I will get this camera. If the G11's new sensor really is a large improvement, then I will choose that probably instead.

But otherwise I'm using my iPhone 3Gs to fulfill point and shoot needs and use my DSLR for everything else. In another year or 18 months it also will have an improved model.

I still want a smaller, flatter digital camera that has full frame image quality, and I want it to have a choice of high quality small lenses, and I want IS, I simply do not see any reason why I should at this stage of things, forgo IS. As I've stated often, even if it's the size of a M8 but has fantastic image quality then it opens a new book. From experience I would be mostly inclined to buy a camera like this if it was made by Canon or Panaasonic.

[pieq314]

The GF1 is definitely a very interesting camera. With the 20mm pancake lens, it is so small so that it is very convenient to carry around, and its fast AF speed (supposedly as good as entry level DSLRs) and the built in flash make it a better choice than the E-P1.

The 4/3 sensor is just slightly smaller than Canon's 1.6x crop sensors (about 25% smaller), so if Panasonic can make its sensors as clean as Canon's, then its image quality should be close to what Canon's 1.6x crop cameras can do in terms of ISO noise. I would like to see sample photos for ISO comparison.

[MFor]

... I would like to see sample photos for ISO comparison.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/PanasonicGF1/page14.asp

[denncald]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this link from Imaging Resource, but they now have a hands-on preview of the GF-1, (http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DMCGF1/DMCGF1A.HTM) with image samples. They also have several test samples for the EP-1 (http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EP1/EP1A7.HTM).

Dennis

[pieq314]

Just took a look at the sample photos from imaging resource. Both the GF1 and E-P1 produce very clean photos at ISO 3200. And at ISO 1600, the noise levels are even cleaner and similar to what Canon 450D's level.

[CJinAustin]

There won't be a huge difference in outdoor light,,, but once the light fades the Panasonic is just going to spank any small sensored camera... bad.

I love the G-series cameras,,, but if you want high iso performance you should definitely look into the Olympus and Panasonic models.

[Jannie]

But we don't know that the new G11 won't perform well in low light, they are claiming a lot and maybe it's possible, they have a whole new sensor etc. give them a chance, I'd be really going ga-ga over a new Leica if Canon did the digital part of the technology.

[CJinAustin]

But we don't know that the new G11 won't perform well in low light, they are claiming a lot and maybe it's possible, they have a whole new sensor etc. give them a chance,

I don't think the G11 will be anywhere close to the GF1 or EP1's high iso performance,,, they just have a huge advantage in sensor size.

[I Simonius]

Thanks for the links and pics - what I'd really like to see are some pics done with both the G11 and GF1 in a direct comparison

I'm up for getting one of them!;)

[eagle359]

I want to buy a new camera by the first of November, going to see the grandkids in CA. The three on the short list are the G11, the GF-1, and the G-1. I wish you guys would decide which one is better-so I do not have to!!! If you assume NEAR equal IQ, how much does the price enter in? At the price of the GF-1 am I a fool for not considering the Canon T1i? I am still shooting film in an old A2E and several very old F-1 & F-1N Canons.

[tkbslc]

I want to buy a new camera by the first of November, going to see the grandkids in CA. The three on the short list are the G11, the GF-1, and the G-1. I wish you guys would decide which one is better-so I do not have to!!! If you assume NEAR equal IQ, how much does the price enter in? At the price of the GF-1 am I a fool for not considering the Canon T1i? I am still shooting film in an old A2E and several very old F-1 & F-1N Canons.

You cannot assume equal IQ. The sensor on the GF1 and G1 is much larger than on the G11 and will provide better images above base ISO. If you want a camera that has an attached lens with nice range and manual controls for outdoor or flash shooting, then the G10 or G11 will be nice. Otherwise you have to think about what level of compromise between size and image quality you want to give up. THe g1 has a viewfinder and flipscreen, and the GF1 is nice and compact, but they use the same sensor and lenses, so the output should be the same. I'd probably go GF1 out of your list for size and HD video along with good enough IQ.

Although I do have to say that you shouldn't overlook a Canon T1i.

[pieq314]

I want to buy a new camera by the first of November, going to see the grandkids in CA. The three on the short list are the G11, the GF-1, and the G-1. I wish you guys would decide which one is better-so I do not have to!!! If you assume NEAR equal IQ, how much does the price enter in? At the price of the GF-1 am I a fool for not considering the Canon T1i? I am still shooting film in an old A2E and several very old F-1 & F-1N Canons.

For image quality and everything else, Canon T1i will be the best. The only bad thing about it is the size: it is just a lot bigger that the other 3 in you list, even though as a DSLR is concerned, T1i is small.

G1 is bigger than GF1 with the same sensor size(that is, image quality should be the same). So G1 is out of the question.

G11 is small and convenient to carry, but its image quality is no where close to GF1/G1 and T1i.

So here you are:

If you want the best image quality, go with T1i.

If you want both image quality (just a little behind T1i) and small size, go with GF1. This is also the most expensive option.

If you want small size, go with G11. This is also the least expensive option.

[I Simonius]

G11 is small and convenient to carry, but its image quality is no where close to GF1/G1 and T1i.


are you sure?
I ask because the examples on image resource didnt impress me that much for the panasonic, but the Canons images fromthe canon site looked pretty good to me

I knowthe panasonic looks better as the iso goes up but the G11 looks best to me at low ISO

Am I misreading the images?

[CJinAustin]

are you sure?
I ask because the examples on image resource didnt impress me that much for the panasonic, but the Canons images fromthe canon site looked pretty good to me

I knowthe panasonic looks better as the iso goes up but the G11 looks best to me at low ISO

Am I misreading the images?

Well I'm pretty sure... the larger sensor cameras always sport better dynamic range and low light performance... The difference in quality won't be much in low tonal range outdoor light but the bigger sensored camera is usually better at everything outside of that.

Here's an example of the G9 vs the larger sensor DP1. http://www.seriouscompacts.com/2008/05/dp1-shootout-pt-6-dynamic-range.html

[I Simonius]

Well I'm pretty sure... the larger sensor cameras always sport better dynamic range and low light performance... The difference in quality won't be much in low tonal range outdoor light but the bigger sensored camera is usually better at everything outside of that.

Here's an example of the G9 vs the larger sensor DP1. http://www.seriouscompacts.com/2008/05/dp1-shootout-pt-6-dynamic-range.html

That does look convincing although the G11 is supposed to address some of the concerns with the earlier versions

not sure, still wondering................:confused:

[CJinAustin]

That does look convincing although the G11 is supposed to address some of the concerns with the earlier versions

not sure, still wondering................:confused:

ehh,, it won't be much better.... But it depends on how picky you are and your needs... For outdoor shots the G11 is going to be great/wonderful for the price... if you want high iso performance I promise you the larger sensor cameras will be superior.

[I Simonius]

ehh,, it won't be much better.... But it depends on how picky you are and your needs... For outdoor shots the G11 is going to be great/wonderful for the price... if you want high iso performance I promise you the larger sensor cameras will be superior.

Im not a high ISO shooter generally , I prefer to shoot at 400 at the highest really so high ISO aside Im thinking the G11 might be the one

I just preferto stick with Canon but will switch if there s a compelling enough reason..

The jury's still out ;)

[wksoh]

I sold my G10 2 weeks ago and got the GF1 with 20mm.
I think I like my decision so far.

Be prepared to lose the nice macro and tele on the G10 though..

I am using the S90 as well. The auto mode is not reliable as the ISO jumps to 800 - very unnecessary. The exposure ring really messes things up if not watched carefully.
It takes nice pictures - but not all the time. I "fight" with the S90 often over the exposure of the camera.

GF1 is really a point and shoot guy.