Best Lens for Volleyball?

[tstowe]

I teach high school and I'm the yearbook advisor. That's French for you get to take all the pictures.

Opinions of what would be the best lens for indoor volleyball? Lighting in our gym is about what you'd expect for a high school.

[clarence]

85/1.8

[mcluckie]

70-200 IS. I'd be nice to know what you had as choices, though. You definately don't need anything wider unless you'll be under the net with a wide angle (sounds cool), and I doubt you need anything linger than 200 -- it's not like shooting football. The 70 will get some wider action, the 200 hopefully some tight ones. As is already posted heatedly me by in other forums, I'm a huge fan of the f4 L IS, sharp at f4 and 4 stops of IS.

[clarence]

70-200 IS. I'd be nice to know what you had as choices, though. You definately don't need anything wider unless you'll be under the net with a wide angle (sounds cool), and I doubt you need anything linger than 200 -- it's not like shooting football. The 70 will get some wider action, the 200 hopefully some tight ones. As is already posted heatedly me by in other forums, I'm a huge fan of the f4 L IS, sharp at f4 and 4 stops of IS.

Also depends a lot on the OP's budget, what lenses you might already have available, which camera body you're shooting with, whether you plan on strobing (if you can), and where you sit.

I have the 70-200 f/4L IS, and absolutely love it. And yes, the zoom range will give you a lot more flexibility in composition. But IMHO, unless the OP has strobes, since he says "Lighting in our gym is about what you'd expect for a high school", that typically means that most people find f/2.8 about the limit for getting decent SS indoors. And I love the f/4L's IS, but IMHO, he's going to need to keep the SS 1/750" - 1/1000", so the value of IS is minimized. Especially since it takes time to spin up.

But if he is satisfied with the results of shooting ISO 3200 or higher (with RAW and a careful applicaion of PP NR like NeatImage, Noiseware, or NoiseNinja), then that might mitigate the use of f/4.

But (IMHO) f/4 is a stop in the wrong direction, plus I'm a sucker for blurring out the background clutter and crowd with a razor thin DoF ( f/1.4 - f/2.8 ).
85/1.8 is a favorite because anything wider seems to be too wide, anything longer seems to be zoomed in too much unless you're shooting from the top of the bleachers or a catwalk, it's realtively sharp wide open, the AF is quick enough for sports, and it's relatively affordable (~$300). Anything faster (f/1.4) requires unforgiving focus with such a narrow DoF.

If the OP already has a 50/1.8, 50/1.4, or a 100/2.0 then those will be usable too, but IMO, a notch less than a good 85/1.8

If by some chance you have access to a nice 135/2L, then check out this thread:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=743973

[zelseman]

85/1.8
x2!

[Mike R]

I use the 85 f/1.8 when shooting indoors. It's a cave and they will not allow any type of lights. This lens is a real bargain. Fast focus and high IQ from it.

[Adama]

Depends on the gym lighting and your camera. If the lighting is horrid, anything below a 5D II or 1D series you're going to have to use a prime, either 50 1.4 or 85 1.8. 135 2.0 would work wonders as well.

Otherwise I'd recommend using the 24-70 2.8 and/or 70-200 2.8. Try shooting with the zooms during an unrelated sporting event at the gym before making your decision. I often think I can't shoot in some lighting and surprisingly find that I can just squeak in a 1/500 shutter speed at ISO 1600 with the 70-200

[vetkrazy]

When lighting is poor the answer is the 85 f/1.8. I also use the 135 f/2 and the 50 f/1.4, as ADAMA suggests. The only time I use an f/2.8 lens is with my 5DMK2 and that is at ISO 5000 and a ss 1/800. If I go to ISO 12800 I get to bump the shutter up to 1/1250. Of course you will need some noise reduction.

[wyofizz]

85 1.8 w/o strobes
70-200 2.8 and or 24-70 2.8 with strobes

[mcluckie]

Sttrobes? Howa are you going to light a volleyball court? And who will let you. Do you (pl.) mean shoe-mounted portable flash? Yuch. Everyone also keeps talking about how dark it is; guess its been a while since I saw one, but I didn't think it was that bad. I mentioned IS on a 7-200, not meaning IS #1, but #2, useful for moving subject (not the camera shake IS). And its not a race track, meaning not everyting is moving rapid all the time. A jumper at the top of an jump might only need 1/250 to freeze, maybe 500. Can someone find out the lumens? It's metal halide, right? Maybe 20 of them? I love the 85 1.8 and 135 f2, but its only a stop more than a 70-200 2.8 and isn't the flexibility worth it. I'd hate to shoot this with a prime or 2.Whats better -- having to crop out halk the frame 'cause you're too short, or using a higher ISO and use all of it. Oh, sorry, I also always think in terms of full-frame sensors.

Just go there and take a meter reading. If my light-meter memory serves me, I don't think you'll be highter than 1200 ISO to get a decent shutter.

[mcluckie]

Otherwise I'd recommend using the 24-70 2.8 and/or 70-200 2.8. Try shooting with the zooms during an unrelated sporting event at the gym before making your decision. I often think I can't shoot in some lighting and surprisingly find that I can just squeak in a 1/500 shutter speed at ISO 1600 with the 70-200
Like he said

[patwill]

I have shot HS volleyball dozens of times including last night. The glass I use is the 85 f1.8 and the 135 f2.0. And I use the 50 f1.8 for variety in my shots of the bench and timeout huddles, but not for the fast action because it's focus is a little slower than the other two. I haven't used the 100 f2.0 but it might be worth a try if you have one available.

Flash is not allowed for this sport where I'm located and I think that's pretty widespread; I wouldn't even ask about strobes. Unless you have a gym with lighting much better than the average HS, f2.8 zooms aren't going to cut it. IS is useless at the shutter speeds needed for volleyball, the action is much faster than basketball.

Some of my most interesting shots come from going everywhere, including sitting under the net and in the officials stand, during warm-ups.

[clarence]

Sttrobes? Howa are you going to light a volleyball court? And who will let you.

NCAA Volleyball Rulebook:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/VOLLEYBALL_RULES_FINAL2d715c10-5258-4718-b394-0847b6cb962e.pdf

page 16:


1.4.5.2 Strobe lights are allowed. Courtside flash photography is prohibited within 2 meters (6 feet, 6 inches) of the court. Flash photography outside the 2-meter area is allowed unless it presents a safety hazard.

High schools vary, but most don't have a clearly published rule. Just check with the coaches and officials before the game.

[SuzyView]

I have the 70-200 2.8 IS and the 85 1.8. I would bring both and see how much reach I needed. If you can avoid flash, that would help the players.

[TwoWheelMotion]

Just to as a question to the pot:

Why not use the 50 1.4?

If the OP has a crop body, wouldn't that be a better match then the 80 1.8?

[SuzyView]

The 50 1.4 is not that fast of a lens, for some reason. The reach of the 85 1.8 is so much better. You can't get close enough.

[clarence]

Why not use the 50 1.4?

If the OP has a crop body, wouldn't that be a better match then the 80 1.8?

Wider aperture is important for shooting in low-light, but it isn't the only variable in selecting a lens here... plus, there's the trade-off of a razor-thin DoF when shooting at f/1.4 - you've really got to nail your focus point.

A 85mm lens has 1.7X more tele length than a 50mm lens.

And a crop factor does come into play... The OP doesn't state which body he's using, but from his other posts, I assume it'll be the 1D Mark IIN (1.3x crop).

Even if he's using a full-frame or a 40D/50D (1.6x), that just means he'll have to move in or out 30% more or less. But I think moving around is important anyways to keep shots of the game interesting. Cropping also has a lot to help with this too... another reason why I think 200/2.8 is too much. VB moves fast and it's difficult to frame/compose tight on the fly.

Lens focus speed is also important... I've always found that the 85/1.8 is very responsive to fast-tracking AI Servo.

But as I said before, if the OP has a 50/1.8 or a 50/1.4, then by all means give it a try. Or if his students are shooting, I'd much rather trust them with a 50/1.8 instead of a 135/2L

IMHO, shooting high ISO is easier than strobing for sports, and on my 1D2, I try to save 3200 for emergencies. Also, IMHO VB needs faster than 1/250", but I respect the opinions of others. But in a typical HS gym, with ISO 1600, for acceptable shutter speeds, I think you're likely to need either an aperture better than 2.8 or strobes.

[clarence]

I mentioned IS on a 7-200, not meaning IS #1, but #2, useful for moving subject (not the camera shake IS). And its not a race track, meaning not everyting is moving rapid all the time. A jumper at the top of an jump might only need 1/250 to freeze

Interesting. I usually associate I.S. Mode 2 with panning (bikes, cars, motorcycles, horses).

Can you provide some indoor sports shots done with IS Mode 2?

[Chris]

85/1.8

What he said

[mcluckie]

I have shot HS volleyball dozens of times including last night. The glass I use is the 85 f1.8 and the 135 f2.0. And I use the 50 f1.8 for variety in my shots of the bench and timeout huddles, but not for the fast action because it's focus is a little slower than the other two. I haven't used the 100 f2.0 but it might be worth a try if you have one available.

That's it then. Just wait for the guy with the first-hand to clue us in. Sounds like perfect lenses. Always wide open?

Oh, and I don't shoot sports, so I'm an idiot. I also don't shoot high school seniors, weddings, nascar, dogs, flowers... but been shooting for 30 years. how did i ever avoid those things?

[Mike R]

That's it then. Just wait for the guy with the first-hand to clue us in. Sounds like perfect lenses. Always wide open?

Oh, and I don't shoot sports, so I'm an idiot. I also don't shoot high school seniors, weddings, nascar, dogs, flowers... but been shooting for 30 years. how did i ever avoid those things?

I only open up to f/2.2 when shooting indoor sports (basketball, volleyball,wrestling) I feel that opening wider and I'm risking shots because of the thin DOF

How did you avoid sports?? YOU WERE SMART!!!

[sfinkernagel]

I am no more of an expert than anyone else, so please take this as it is meant- to be helpful.

My understanding of the IS system is that it will not help in this instance- both modes are designed to minimize camera shake, but neither mode will help to freeze action. My experience (3 or 4 seasons) has brought me to the 85/1.8 and the 135/2.0 as noted by others. I have the 24-70/2.8 but the loss of one stop is huge in most gyms. I will usually shoot iso 1600 or 3200 with a 40D, and shutter speeds will be around 1/500 or a little better. I have found that to be the only way to freeze action.

Good luck!

[mcluckie]

Thanks Mark. But I just got back on here because I remembered (I'm fifty-freakin-six, but don't tell my 26 year old girlfriends) that I shot golf for the PGA and tennis for SI in the early 80s. But they're outside with lots of light. Ah, country club sports.

[tstowe]

I went with the 85 1.8. Here are the results:

http://thetalon.smugmug.com/Sports/Fall/Varsity-Volleyball/9569463_ib66G/1/643624651_wFgzL

[Adama]

Just a reminder about the 50 from personal experience, for maximum image quality it pretty much is a 50mm 2.0 lens. Anything below that and you get razor thin DOF + a natural softness shooting wide open on a non-L prime. For that reason, I try not to go below 2.0 on my fifty unless I have to.

[mcluckie]

I think most lenses aren't too sharp wide open. Except the f4 70-200 (I have a big history here stating this to all the f2.8 70-200 people here).

[MDteX]

I use the 70-200 f/2.8 for all my volleyball. I like the versatility much better than the 85 f/1.8. I can move around the court and still get good shots. With the 85 you move to the back and it becomes a wide angle. Too much stuff in the frame. Shoot tight.

[Adama]

I think most lenses aren't too sharp wide open. Except the f4 70-200 (I have a big history here stating this to all the f2.8 70-200 people here).

There are a handful of L primes that are sharp wide open (85 1.2, 200 2.0, 300+400 2.8). Zooms are lenses that almost always exhibit softness wide open.

[wyofizz]

Sttrobes? Howa are you going to light a volleyball court? And who will let you. Do you (pl.) mean shoe-mounted portable flash?


I use AB1600's bounced off the ceiling aimed over the center of the court for High School, Skyport wireless triggers.

[Mike R]

I use the 70-200 f/2.8 for all my volleyball. I like the versatility much better than the 85 f/1.8. I can move around the court and still get good shots. With the 85 you move to the back and it becomes a wide angle. Too much stuff in the frame. Shoot tight.

That is a good lens for VB, unfortunetly my darkest gym doesn't allow flash, therefore I have to use the 85 at f/2.2 When you get use the fixed focal length, it works well, just need to spend a little extra time in front of the PC and with the crop tool

[mcluckie]

There are a handful of L primes that are sharp wide open (85 1.2, 200 2.0, 300+400 2.. Zooms are lenses that almost always exhibit softness wide open.

Oooh, yeah... I guess I haven't used too many $6000 lenses since my divorce. I never had a problem with non-Nikon or Canon being un-crisp wide open -- my Leica, Hasselblad and Schneider lenses seemed good, but that was a design-career ago between the photo ones. I always stopped my Nikons down one if possible, and never considered zooms at all until the last couple years. You've already got me looking at the 200 f2.

[mcluckie]

I'm still stunned that they let you use strobes in a sporting event, especially big ones popped off the ceiling. Guess I've seen pops in a boxing match, but I used to shoot PGA golf tours and I couldn't even let the shutter down too quick or I'd be in deep press do-do. I'm on a personal level with Lee Travino's caddy over this.

And to be honest, I haven't seen the inside of a gym in forty years. I can guess an exposure pretty well if I had a better clue.

[Adama]

85 1.2 costs just as much as a 70-200 2.8 IS ;)

Also the new 100 2.8 Macro promises to be ultra sharp wide open.

[disneydork06]

I've always gotten away with 70-200 2.8L IS with 1/250. i use that cause that's the slowest speed I can use before camera shake gets involved and lets in the most amount of light for me. also it's only hs, not pro so 1/250th should stop most action. iso1600 at 2.8. I've stopped enough motion for usable shots. most from college events. all I had to do was brighten up the images a bit and crop in pp
but i do like the primes. I think that the 135L would be awesome. I've used a 50 1.4 under a basketball hoop but I only used it at f2 so I get some dof. good luck

[liam5100]

Best lens... hmmm.. I'm starting to eyeball a 200 f2 myself for volleyball and basketball

[wyofizz]

Best lens... hmmm.. I'm starting to eyeball a 200 f2 myself for volleyball and basketball

I'd suggest you rent one first to see if it fits your style of shooting.
I can tell you it would be much too limiting for me.
I like to get under/near the basket at the baseline when possible.


Dave

[liam5100]

I'd suggest you rent one first to see if it fits your style of shooting.
I can tell you it would be much too limiting for me.
I like to get under/near the basket at the baseline when possible.


Dave

I do as well, and I've played with friends more than enough to know I want one. I was particularly thinking of those opportunities when I have access to above the court vantage points, when I at times use my 300 or 120-300.

I know I'd like one for basketball for those down court shots on a 2nd body.

[tstowe]

What would be the ideal lens for a throgh-the-glass remote shot for basketball?...Then what would be the ideal, if you are on a budget? :)

[Zivnuska]

What would be the ideal lens for a throgh-the-glass remote shot for basketball?...Then what would be the ideal, if you are on a budget? :)

Ambient or strobed?

If strobed, try the 17-40.

[tstowe]

Ambient

[wyofizz]

What would be the ideal lens for a throgh-the-glass remote shot for basketball?...Then what would be the ideal, if you are on a budget? :)

16-35 2.8 would work.

[mcluckie]

16-35 2.8 would work.
Oh, yeah, there's some BUDGET glass!

[Adama]

Sports photography is not the domain for a budget shooter. Rent it if you can't buy it.

The only thing I can think of that would come even close to budget would be a tokina 11-16

[tstowe]

Best I've got right now is a 28mm 2.8. But remember, it's for a basketball remote. There's no need for a zoom lens. I was thinking of a Sigma 20mm 1.8. You can find them used for about $350. I could probably swing that.

[Zivnuska]

Sports photography is not the domain for a budget shooter.

No truer words... ... ... ... ...
;-)

[Mike R]

No truer words... ... ... ... ...
;-)

TOO bad that some of us found out after we were sucked in.

[ChunkyDA]

Sports photography is not the domain for a budget shooter. Rent it if you can't buy it.

The only thing I'd add is that night or indoor sports really drain the ol' wallet. In bright sun you can get by with consumer level gear.
As far as the OP, my volleyball shots are mostly in the 85-135 range of the 70-200 f2.8 with the 1.3 crop of a 1DMkII. I have succesfully used off camera flash bounced off the ceiling when the referees specifically told on-camera direct flashers to stop or be removed from the gym.

[patwill]

I went with the 85 1.8. Here are the results:

http://thetalon.smugmug.com/Sports/Fall/Varsity-Volleyball/9569463_ib66G/1/643624651_wFgzL

Very nice work. I only glanced through a dozen or so of them but it seems the 85 was the right choice. You got a lot of variety by moving around. Based on the settings you used I'd call the lighting in that gym pleasantly above average. Are there windows on both sides of the gym? They are a bit bothersome in the background of some of your shots. If I were the yearbook advisor you would be invited back to shoot some more sports.

[wyofizz]

Best I've got right now is a 28mm 2.8. But remember, it's for a basketball remote. There's no need for a zoom lens. I was thinking of a Sigma 20mm 1.8. You can find them used for about $350. I could probably swing that.


Give the Sigma a shot. It's not like your going to be debating IQ when shooting thru scratched up plexi glass. ;)

[tstowe]

Are there windows on both sides of the gym? They are a bit bothersome in the background of some of your shots. If I were the yearbook advisor you would be invited back to shoot some more sports.

I will be. I am the yearbook advisor. ;)

And Yes. There are two rows of big-ass windows that go down both sides of the gym. And what's better? The gym is pointed North, South (so the windows are East, West). That way you get glaring sun morning and night...joy

[tstowe]

Give the Sigma a shot. It's not like your going to be debating IQ when shooting thru scratched up plexi glass. ;)

Actually, they aren't scratched. After half a bottle of windex, they look pretty good.