Photocart

[tracknut]

I recently converted my photo sales over to using Photocart (http://www.picturespro.com/), and wanted to give a plug for the product and service. I was pretty worried at first, wondering if all my customers would be able to understand a new system, and whether I'd be getting any nastygrams about the change. Amazingly, only one frustrated customer, compared to lots of kudos for the new setup. The frustrated customer figured it out herself in the 5 minutes it took me to get back to her. I had a few questions during the installation process, and all were handled nicely through their forum.

If you need a cart that manages your various shoots, gives folks a shopping basket, lets you define the look & feel of the page, all your products and pricing, manages users and orders, payment gateway, and customer emails - this is really a good one.

I have no affiliation with the company, just a happy customer.

Dave

[damonb]

Since I work in the print industry for photography (not the company you mention), I took a quick look at the gallery section of your site & have one recommendation (if you can change it).... You might want to make the shopping cart color a little different (darker or more contrast) to highlight the purchase option.

One thing I couldn't figure out...do you personally handle the print fulfillment?

[tracknut]

I see what you mean, but I don't have the ability to change those icons (well, without digging thru their files and changing them, that is).

Yes, I do my own print fulfillment.

Dave

[damonb]

Ah, just was wondering if it was easier to make the buy option "pop" more. Other than that, it looks like a good option for you!

[Karl Johnston]

This is just what I need, thanks.

[Picture North Carolina]

I have been recommending PhotoCart for some time now.

I took a look at your gallery to compared your PC usage to mine. Wow! What a difference! Doesn't even look like the same application!

A good testimony to just how configurable and customizable it is!

(no affiliation either.)

[tracknut]

I took a look at your gallery to compared your PC usage to mine. Wow! What a difference! Doesn't even look like the same application!

A good testimony to just how configurable and customizable it is!


I agree, that's a great feature of the cart, you can tailor probably 90% of what the user interface will look like. I'm hoping subsequent releases will let us tailor 100%, but perhaps there are good reasons that last 10% is "fixed".

Dave

[NickJushchyshyn]

I sell a lot of multi-photo products (collages, photosets, etc.) where for a single price the customer picks 2,3,4,5 or more photos for a single item purchased.
Does anyone use photocart for products like this?

[tracknut]

I sell a lot of multi-photo products (collages, photosets, etc.) where for a single price the customer picks 2,3,4,5 or more photos for a single item purchased.
Does anyone use photocart for products like this?

I have not, but I'm pretty sure photocart has the ability to do this.

Dave

[damonb]

I did have one question because I work for an indirect competitor to Photocart. How important is self-fulfillment? We've been tossing around adding support for this at some point (we currently handle fulfillment (printing, packaging, shipping) and I am just curious as to why people go this route. Is it because of established relationships with local print shops?

[tracknut]

My sense is the majority of photographers do not do their own prints, so it could be I'm a minority on this one. I do all my own fulfillment partially because I don't want to give a percentage to someone else, and partly because I have the "if you want it done right, do it yourself" attitude. I like knowing that I own the whole process, from the point of taking the picture to the point where the customer gets the print. I get some sort of satisfaction out of that.

Dave

[Picture North Carolina]

I did have one question because I work for an indirect competitor to Photocart. How important is self-fulfillment? We've been tossing around adding support for this at some point (we currently handle fulfillment (printing, packaging, shipping) and I am just curious as to why people go this route. Is it because of established relationships with local print shops?

INCREDIBLY important at least for me. Yes, the restriction of forcing a user to utilize a given printing service (that is associated with an online gallery service) to some is a severe one.

I do lots of fine art prints on very high end rag papers. Would you trust that type of print to a mini-lab assembly line?

Not just local print shops. ANY print lab that a given photog may want to use is an important freedom - local, online, or self-printed.

Yea, shipping and packaging is a PITA, but it comes with the territory of self-printing. I would rather suffer that inconvenience to ensure the customer gets a top-notch print that to let somebody else package and ship, only to find out the customer is receiving total crap.

[Picture North Carolina]

... and yea, there's that "giving away a large percentage of the profits in fees" thingy, too.

[damonb]

Hi tracknut and CannedHeat,

Thanks for the feedback. Very good to know! Have you used any online print options in the past? If so, did you have any issues?

Since I am new to the industry, and amateur photog (very amateur!) , it is always interesting to hear these comments from people that have been doing photography as a business.

[tracknut]

I had my prints done by WHCC for a while, and the quality was fine enough. I found it frustrating at times with color matching, which could have been my fault.

Dave

[NickJushchyshyn]

I have not, but I'm pretty sure photocart has the ability to do this.

Dave
Thanks ... In my quick review of the example, it didn't seem to handle this. I'm interested in seeing an example (some examples) as to how it handles this.

[damonb]

Hi CannedHeat,

".. and yea, there's that "giving away a large percentage of the profits in fees" thingy, too."

Perhaps I am being naive in this particular area but it would seem like printing and processing would take time away from actually doing photography to generate more revenue. I am very much of the, "Time=Money" school of thought when it comes to fees for any service I utilize.

Hi tracknut,

" I had my prints done by WHCC for a while, and the quality was fine enough. I found it frustrating at times with color matching, which could have been my fault."

My limited experience to date is that most of the labs (online or off) use Adobe RGB (1998) ICC or sRGB color profiles for prints. Some photographers, however, want to match to the printer profile as well...which isn't always available.

Again, many thanks for the comments. Much appreciated & helps me learn more.

[tracknut]

Thanks ... In my quick review of the example, it didn't seem to handle this. I'm interested in seeing an example (some examples) as to how it handles this.

You might search around on their forum (http://www.picturespro.com/community/forums/photo_cart/), or ask for some links to examples.

Dave

[cdifoto]

... and yea, there's that "giving away a large percentage of the profits in fees" thingy, too.
This is why I have my own integrating proofing. People love that it's on my own recognized website and I love that I only have web hosting (already a sunken cost) and credit card processing fees (a tiny percentage of each sale) to shell out. Most places who do the entire hosting, fulfillment and credit card processing flow charge an arm and a leg commission AND have short deadlines before taking the other arm and leg.

As far as damonb's time = money concern, I'm putting more money in my pocket by doing it myself. My time is certainly being compensated. And by "it" I mean hosting and payment flow. I let a lab do the actual printing and packaging. I also save time (since time = money) with self-hosting because I don't have to spend hours and hours retouching every photo just in case it gets a bite. I only have to worry about the photos that are actually ordered, when they're ordered.

[damonb]

Hi cdifoto,

Ha. Love the arm & leg comments:)

" I only have to worry about the photos that are actually ordered, when they're ordered."

Interesting experiences you've posted, for sure. The place that I work for actually doesn't require you to upload anything until an order is placed & the fulfillment is handled by us (no hosting fees and the like because the orders are done through *your* website). Can you clarify what you mean by deadlines? Do you mean upload your order in xx hours?

Note: Not mentioning the company because I don't want to be accused of spammy behavior. I am just getting a really good idea as to what photographers are looking for in a service & appreciate the comments (what works, what doesn't, what we should consider with our product offerings, etc.).

Credit card fees for a merchant account can generally range between 2-5%, correct ? I believe credit score/ratings come into play for individuals going out on their own. I just remember this from my days working on that side of the industry.

[cdifoto]

How can your service show anything to my client if nothing is uploaded to your website? If the order is done through MY website, who are you and what are you actually doing for me? Are you just a print lab? I already have one of those.

5% is pretty high. One's credit would have to be absolute trash to pay that much (in the USA at least). PayPal has better rates than that, which I can also use on my website with the press of a button if I so choose.

[Picture North Carolina]

As far as damonb's time = money concern, I'm putting more money in my pocket by doing it myself. My time is certainly being compensated.

Exactly. Excellent points. And to take it further, I did not post this because it was not relevant, but I recently learned to construct my own frames from moulding and I do my own matting both of which maximize my profits.

Yesterday I delivered an order for a batch of framed, matted prints @ $451 each. I did the prints at about $4-$5 each, the frame was about $18, and the double mat about $3-4. Approx. profit each = $424.

If I had paid for printing and shipping, custom frame building (non-standard size frames), custom double-matting plus the percentage of a company such as EM taking their order-fulfillment fee, the profit would not have been any where near that.

Yes, time is money but people forget that is a two-sided coin. When you pay somebody to do a job for you to save your time, you're paying with your money. It's not a one-sided equation.

And I share your philosophy on self hosting. Customers appreciate what they perceive as personalized service.

[cdifoto]

I don't do my own printing anymore and I never did do my own framing because it either gets too expensive or I don't have the space for it, but I definitely try to do what I can, otherwise someone else is going to do what I can do at a price that gives them a profit. They're not going to do it at their actual cost. I can also do it faster in most cases because I can do it as soon as I know I want it done. I don't have to hire someone then wait for them to get around to it.

Besides, now that I've actually got my website programmed (it has been for about 2 years now), it's not like it takes extra time to host that stuff. It's up and it stays up. I'm not exactly a perpetually globetrotting, never-at-home, rock star photographer so I think I can at least squeeze in some airbrushing & blemish removal.

[damonb]

Hi cdifoto,

"How can your service show anything to my client if nothing is uploaded to your website?"

This would only be required if a print is ordered from your site directly. But...you are correct when stating it works like a print lab.

"5% is pretty high. One's credit would have to be absolute trash to pay that much (in the USA at least). PayPal has better rates than that, which I can also use on my website with the press of a button if I so choose."

It depends on what you're selling as well. If you're deemed as high risk, of course, you would fall on that higher side. My guess is most people pay between 3-4%, with PayPal being a solid option to a merchant account.

I agree with the other argument about "time=money" as well. Not saying that it doesn't go both ways...my personal schedule (work) generally dictates convenience over personally doing anything.

Hi cannedheat,

"Yesterday I delivered an order for a batch of framed, matted prints @ $451 each. I did the prints at about $4-$5 each, the frame was about $18, and the double mat about $3-4. Approx. profit each = $424."

Now that's impressive (no joke). I should get some pointers from you.

[Picture North Carolina]

By the way, for those fulfilling their own orders - processing their own credit card transactions, a note:

I have not checked it out yet, but I heard on the radio the other day that Costco and Sam's Club offer credit card merchant services for small businesses, supposedly at percentages lower than PayPal, Google and banks. Probably worth checking into.

[SoaringUSAEagle]

I just bought photocart over the summer, and so far so good. I have had one issue with someone not being able to access a gallery, but that was because they must have mistyped the access code. I'd like to customize mine a little more so it flows a bit better with my site.

[Picture North Carolina]

I just bought photocart over the summer, and so far so good. I have had one issue with someone not being able to access a gallery, but that was because they must have mistyped the access code. I'd like to customize mine a little more so it flows a bit better with my site.

Don't know if it contributed to the problem, but also be aware that cookies must be enabled. If cookies are not enabled, when a person enters the access code, it may appear that the code is not working, but in fact it may be that the cookies prevents them from entering.

It's the one largest complaint I have about PC. Casual browsers to galleries that are not passworded often cannot see images any larger than the gallery thumbnail if cookies are not enabled.

[SoaringUSAEagle]

That makes sense. I will keep that in mind.

[blackshadow]

For you photo cart people out there how search engine friendly is photo cart?

I currently use a Smugmug Pro account and would like to see much better SEO than what they offer.

I'm contemplating ditching SM - probably for Photoshelter but Photocart may be an option.

[tracknut]

For you photo cart people out there how search engine friendly is photo cart?

I currently use a Smugmug Pro account and would like to see much better SEO than what they offer.

I'm contemplating ditching SM - probably for Photoshelter but Photocart may be an option.

I looked through some of the code from Photocart, as I hadn't before. It does set the "title" flag (to the name of your gallery), but does not set the meta description. It does allow you to add your own content into the header and footer areas of the pages, which of course you could use to incorporate various content and keywords. Photocart's code does not pass the W3C validator.

That said, personally I would not use Photocart as my entire site anyway. It is a great solution for the galleries, but I see that as a part of my web site, not the whole thing. And I don't really want my galleries indexed by Google, they're a twisty maze of passages, all alike. I have my SEO content built into my other pages.

Dave