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View Full Version : Macbook + SnowLeopard = Very Bad


zincozinco
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 10:00
Sent to Apple:

Since upgrading to Snowleopard my batter does not work, before the upgrade it was working the last time for atleast 3 hours. I bought the Macbook for my camera about a year ago (14 months). I have 3 other macs but wanted a portable for my on location photography.

The machine has only been used like 2 a month or once a month. so the drain is minimal. its like new condition all of it.... However now it does not work as I cant bring it on location to download photos from camera...

Please let me know of a fix to sort out the battery as it is new. It has not been drained 10 times in a year.

bbeck4x4
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 11:30
not draining a laptop battery is one of the worst things that can happen to it, they should be cycled to maintain their life, I had the same situation recently, and I had to replace the battery, after you replace your dead battery, pull the power once a week or so and let it run down until you get the low battery warning, then plug it back in.
with that in mind, with proper cycling, you should get about 300 cycles before you need to replace a battery.

My last battery, 280 cycles and it was reported as dead by Snow Leopard.

zincozinco
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 12:31
How do i check cycles? I have hardly used it??

Pete
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 12:34
How do i check cycles? I have hardly used it??

coconutBattery.

http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/

And for the record, I've put SL onto my MBP and had absolutely no issue with the upgrade.

zincozinco
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 12:34
My silver powebook g4 is still running and we use that one every night for more than 4 years... Web only but still... And its running tiger. Its all weird and om guessing apple wants me to buy a battery...

zincozinco
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 12:43
coconutBattery.

http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/

And for the record, I've put SL onto my MBP and had absolutely no issue with the upgrade.

Thanks , but that crashes everytime I try to load it. I dont think the problem described by many others on the different webs have probs with the MBP its only with the MB...:(

bbeck4x4
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 13:26
I had no issues with the upgrade either, I knew that I had a battery that was about to die, I have applecare so I was not worried about getting it replaced, Snow Leopard now has the ability to check the battery condition, so instead of my thinking that i have 3 1/2 hours available and then finding out that it only lasted 30 minutes, the OS now will tell you that there is a problem with the battery.

bbeck4x4
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 13:36
you can also get the cycle count from the about this mac "apple logo upper left" then click on more info, then scroll down to power, there is a detailed report about the battery information.

But in your case there are two ways to kill a battery, over use (lots of small cycles- most of us are guilty in this regard) and under use, which is what i suspect that you may have inadvertently done with your battery.

My Mac book right now is primarily a desktop machine with a second monitor and as such is always attached to power, not good for the battery, or like your condition, not really used all that much, so the battery really is getting no use or cycles on it.

They tend to die quickly both ways.

Tony-S
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 13:38
This is more likely a hardware (battery) issue than a software issue. See my reply to your other post.

René Damkot
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 15:23
Thanks , but that crashes everytime I try to load it. I dont think the problem described by many others on the different webs have probs with the MBP its only with the MB...:(

Try iStat Pro (http://islayer.com/apps/istatpro/)

zincozinco
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 15:31
this is what I get:

zincozinco
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 15:32
sorry photos

zincozinco
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 15:32
Try iStat Pro (http://islayer.com/apps/istatpro/)

did that it wont give info either

Pete
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 15:39
sorry photos

Notice how it says

Battery installed: No

I guess this is why none of the battery apps work and why you can't see the cycle count.

zincozinco
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 15:40
but the battery went from "replace" to an x - im 100% its software related... its hardly used....

Pete
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 16:06
A trip to your local apple store is on the cards, I think. Maybe one of the Apple Genius guys will have an answer. Swapping your battery into another MB may eliminate the actual problem.

Fastfwd13
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 16:10
We had a similar problem with our battery on the old white macbook. It was not realted to any software upgrade at all but just the battery that went from 3-4 hours autonomy to less than 15 minutes within one week.

Apple store refused to exchange the battery under the warranty but a call to Apple support and they shipped us a new battery. Batteries age and will lose autonomy with time but they should not lose a big chunk really fast and definitely should give more than 15 minutes after just a few months.

Newer batteries are not supposed to need charge/discharge cycles. I don't know how much of that is true and how much is just marketing-speak.

Tony-S
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 16:46
Odds are your battery is dead. You can try a reseat or even a PRAM reset, but my money says your battery needs replaced.

zincozinco
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 17:11
i have done a PRAM reset but no luck, I reinstalled Snow Leopard just to check but its the same deal - tomorrow im calling apple....

bbeck4x4
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 17:33
I'd say call apple, the battery is definitely showing that it is dead, interesting that it happened with the installation of SL, I'm still leaning toward a Hardware issue, not software, I'd try swapping the battery for a different one and see what that shows, If you have one available.

And it should not fail in one giant step, more like a small slow drop in capacity.

zincozinco
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 18:42
so i did a BIG thing I reinstalled Leopard: This is what it shows, but know it seems the installation of SL have FUBARED the Battery - Cycle count 31 and dead......

edit: has to be software related as in SL I could not get info on the battery etc...

MaxxuM
13th of September 2009 (Sun), 21:17
OS X checks the battery condition in both 10.5 and 10.6 - but in 10.6 reliance on the battery is much greater. Your Mac will run slower if there is no battery and unpredictably with a faulty battery. I've been told that 10.6 has safety features to prevent overcharging as well as operation with dead or damaged batteries. These features will prevent SL from booting, and may act unpredictably if it does. I would not attempt to charge this battery until it is checked by Apple as it may cause more damage to the battery or the laptop.

zincozinco
14th of September 2009 (Mon), 02:50
Cheers for the heads up!

Concorde Rules
14th of September 2009 (Mon), 09:04
so i did a BIG thing I reinstalled Leopard: This is what it shows, but know it seems the installation of SL have FUBARED the Battery - Cycle count 31 and dead......

edit: has to be software related as in SL I could not get info on the battery etc...

Don't be ridiculous.

Its totally coincidence.

If there was something wrong with Snow Leopard then I'd have come across this issue before here.

You've been unlucky and got a battery that has completely given up the ghost.

Have you tried taking it out and pressing the levels button? What does the LEDs show?

As its showing as not installed at all it could very well be a connection issue!

zincozinco
14th of September 2009 (Mon), 14:15
Don't be ridiculous.

Its totally coincidence.

If there was something wrong with Snow Leopard then I'd have come across this issue before here.

You've been unlucky and got a battery that has completely given up the ghost.

Have you tried taking it out and pressing the levels button? What does the LEDs show?

As its showing as not installed at all it could very well be a connection issue!

Hehehe Apple Fanboi.... Like me.... No it did happen with the install and as you can see in SL its not showing up and then in L it is.... (Attached files)

I have SL running on my Imac and my MacMini without problem, but :

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=10134236

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-21565_102-0.html?threadID=357366

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/26681/snow-leopard-encourages-battery-replacements

etc etc etc


LEDs are dead since the upgrade, Its very hard for a machine that is never used in a cupboard from one day to another loose the connection, but I have tried to take the battery off and the put it back on again - no success - did not think these were worth mentioning though....

Concorde Rules
14th of September 2009 (Mon), 15:28
Is the last picture a Leopard System Profiler readout?

Im still not convinced tbh.

The SMC controls all hardware functions, be it fans, voltages, CPU speed etc. The system just reports whats going on. Otherwise how does it charge when its asleep?

Either way its back to apple time...

zincozinco
15th of September 2009 (Tue), 04:33
yeah the last one is leopard and the first one is SL. problem is that teh battery was not charging during SL but was showing "replace" at that time tehre were probably info to extract. however did a new instal of SL ontop of the other top see if something had gone wrong the first time and then it just showed X and I could not get more info on the info read out. Anyway I just found out that you van get batteries from ebay for about 30 dollars so im not even gonna contact apple. Ever since they started with the iphone they have become *******s anyway in the service centers... :)

If there werent to may problems reported on CS under "hackint0sh" Id be all over it. But i might fade out apple anyway if windows 7 is any good. I paid 3 times as much for my macbook as my mom did for her toshiba with the same specs and bit bigger screen - its just not worth it if Gates can get a good operating system going....

MaxxuM
15th of September 2009 (Tue), 09:07
yeah the last one is leopard and the first one is SL. problem is that teh battery was not charging during SL but was showing "replace" at that time tehre were probably info to extract. however did a new instal of SL ontop of the other top see if something had gone wrong the first time and then it just showed X and I could not get more info on the info read out. Anyway I just found out that you van get batteries from ebay for about 30 dollars so im not even gonna contact apple. Ever since they started with the iphone they have become *******s anyway in the service centers... :)

If there werent to may problems reported on CS under "hackint0sh" Id be all over it. But i might fade out apple anyway if windows 7 is any good. I paid 3 times as much for my macbook as my mom did for her toshiba with the same specs and bit bigger screen - its just not worth it if Gates can get a good operating system going....

1. I personally would not buy a battery from eBay (China).

2. Windows 7 also monitors the battery and it has flaws as well. Switching OS due to a bad battery (which you already knew was bad) is silly.

3. I highly doubt you paid 3x for the same speced laptop unless your mom stole her's ;). Microsoft itself admits the price difference is only around 10-15% when you match item for item (i.e. cpu, motherboard, HD, networking, audio, LED screen, bluetooth... and so on).

Most of what makes an OS good is user understanding of said OS. Linux, Windows or OS X can all be fine if one knows how to take care of it. Every OS requires maintenance, knowledge of proper security protocols as well as a fundamental mechanical understating of the machine that runs it.

Pete
15th of September 2009 (Tue), 09:12
Hardware fails on occasion, regardless of manufacturer.

Apple batteries can fail, as can Dells or Toshibas.

Jumping ship won't make the problem go away.

Fastfwd13
15th of September 2009 (Tue), 09:19
Hardware fails on occasion, regardless of manufacturer.

Apple batteries can fail, as can Dells or Toshibas.

Jumping ship won't make the problem go away.

there's a really good chance that all those batteries internals are made in the same factory

zincozinco
15th of September 2009 (Tue), 14:39
right alrighty then, I wont jump ship just yet.... :) Thing is that there were no probs with the battery before and thats what piss...s me of... :) Anyway Ive ordered a china one. same stuff different logo.

Village_Idiot
16th of September 2009 (Wed), 12:06
Gates can get a good operating system going....

Wouldn't that be interesting. I wonder if he's sitting on the beach in Tahiti with his notebook starting on Windows 8.

Probably not. He's probably drinking margaritas and playing the ukelele (sp?). That's what I would do if I retired from Microsoft.

bbeck4x4
16th of September 2009 (Wed), 12:17
OP purchases batteries from China and blames the OS, just try and follow that logic?? If the battery was purchased new from Apple, it would have it's own warranty, if it were to also die a early death from abuse, Apple would probably warranty it.

Snow leopard will now warn you that you have an issue with your battery, where before you had no idea, unless you ran the coconut battery app, and did the math.

Great feature IMHO

zincozinco
16th of September 2009 (Wed), 18:42
ok, i have never before used a battery from china, hell i dont even have one yet. i just bought it as the one apple gave me only got 31 cycles on it..... SL is not there to warn its there to sell - do the math :)

MaxxuM
16th of September 2009 (Wed), 19:05
ok, i have never before used a battery from china, hell i dont even have one yet. i just bought it as the one apple gave me only got 31 cycles on it..... SL is not there to warn its there to sell - do the math :)

Maybe I read it wrong, but you said you rarely use this computer? If so, allowing a battery to sit dead (or under 10%) for long periods of time (weeks or months) can have a detrimental effect on the life of the cells. Try to keep a charge on the battery, say 80%+ unless you're cycling it. Also, don't keep it plugged in 24/7 or even overnight while not using it unless again, you're cycling it. On average, a laptop battery will loose about 10% of it's charge per month while not in use. It will discharge more in higher temperatures.

basroil
16th of September 2009 (Wed), 19:28
If so, allowing a battery to sit dead (or under 10%) for long periods of time (weeks or months) can have a detrimental effect on the life of the cells. Try to keep a charge on the battery, say 80%+ unless you're cycling it. Also, don't keep it plugged in 24/7 or even overnight while not using it unless again, you're cycling it. On average, a laptop battery will loose about 10% of it's charge per month while not in use. It will discharge more in higher temperatures.

Actually the other way around with LiIon batteries, you want to decrease the charge (less than full, usually half or quarter) when storing them to prevent degradation issues. In MBP, this usually isn't as big of an issue since their horrible power adaptor means they require battery power when at 100% cpu /video use. Also, OP said that it wasn't giving him errors before 10.6, so sounds like a battery level driver glitch.

Try going into the bios setup (if it's not locked), and check the battery health there. Most bios setups have a battery health page

MaxxuM
16th of September 2009 (Wed), 22:53
Actually the other way around with LiIon batteries, you want to decrease the charge (less than full, usually half or quarter) when storing them to prevent degradation issues. In MBP, this usually isn't as big of an issue since their horrible power adaptor means they require battery power when at 100% cpu /video use. Also, OP said that it wasn't giving him errors before 10.6, so sounds like a battery level driver glitch.

Try going into the bios setup (if it's not locked), and check the battery health there. Most bios setups have a battery health page

You probably mean OpenFirmware or EFI - in which case I think it's beyond the scope of this case ;)

basroil
17th of September 2009 (Thu), 00:29
You probably mean OpenFirmware or EFI - in which case I think it's beyond the scope of this case ;)

Like I said, if it isn't the locked Apple one... I really don't know why they prevent you from touching the bios... Causes issue if you want to change clocks with other OSes

MaxxuM
17th of September 2009 (Thu), 01:03
The Mac EFI is not a BIOS - there really isn't anything basic about it. Though it does perform the same duties, it goes beyond them to the point that most users would likely mess things up if they started tinkering with it. Our Dell servers use EFI as well. It isn't something that end users should be fooling with. Then again, Apple does have a reputation of making even the most complex computer activities easy... hummmm.

basroil
17th of September 2009 (Thu), 01:25
The Mac EFI is not a BIOS - there really isn't anything basic about it. Though it does perform the same duties, it goes beyond them to the point that most users would likely mess things up if they started tinkering with it. Our Dell servers use EFI as well. It isn't something that end users should be fooling with. Then again, Apple does have a reputation of making even the most complex computer activities easy... hummmm.

Was talking about third party bios rather than any specific thing...

And Apple also has a reputation of not letting end users use their own damn hardware, but that's just secondary in this case isn't it :rolleyes:

smcclelland
17th of September 2009 (Thu), 01:49
OP: Take it into the Apple Store and get a diagnosis, you're 2 months out of Apple Care and who knows what they might do for you if the battery is dead after just ~30 cycles. As far as your ordering of a China battery... your hardware and your call but don't expect sympathy if things goes south as there will be a lot of "I told you so"'s.

Chances are good that your battery was on its way out or close to it and I doubt SL had anything to do with the killing of the battery... I'd put batteries up there with shutters in cameras and say that they may be rated for X charges/actuations but it could die much earlier or much later than expected.

basroil
17th of September 2009 (Thu), 02:34
You can also download and burn a linux livedisk, and see if the battery works with the live disk. If it does, then you have yourself a OS glitch, if it doesn't, it was hardware failure that was going to happen regardless of the OS

zincozinco
17th of September 2009 (Thu), 15:14
Maybe I read it wrong, but you said you rarely use this computer? If so, allowing a battery to sit dead (or under 10%) for long periods of time (weeks or months) can have a detrimental effect on the life of the cells. Try to keep a charge on the battery, say 80%+ unless you're cycling it. Also, don't keep it plugged in 24/7 or even overnight while not using it unless again, you're cycling it. On average, a laptop battery will loose about 10% of it's charge per month while not in use. It will discharge more in higher temperatures.

Great..... :) I always leave it on standby till battery dies and then its left for loooong in tempratures above 25 degreees.........

zincozinco
17th of September 2009 (Thu), 15:25
OP: Take it into the Apple Store and get a diagnosis, you're 2 months out of Apple Care and who knows what they might do for you if the battery is dead after just ~30 cycles. As far as your ordering of a China battery... your hardware and your call but don't expect sympathy if things goes south as there will be a lot of "I told you so"'s.

Chances are good that your battery was on its way out or close to it and I doubt SL had anything to do with the killing of the battery... I'd put batteries up there with shutters in cameras and say that they may be rated for X charges/actuations but it could die much earlier or much later than expected.

I live in the south of spain, there are more moorish castles than apple stores.... its not that easy its about an 90 min drive one way to see an apple store vs the 5 mins on ebay....

MaxxuM
17th of September 2009 (Thu), 16:59
I live in the south of spain, there are more moorish castles than apple stores.... its not that easy its about an 90 min drive one way to see an apple store vs the 5 mins on ebay....

Ahhh, I loved Spain when I stopped over at Torrejon Air Force Base, Madrid for duty in the Middle East and to patrol the Sinai. Wish I was into photography more back then...

Village_Idiot
17th of September 2009 (Thu), 17:14
I live in the south of spain, there are more moorish castles than apple stores.... its not that easy its about an 90 min drive one way to see an apple store vs the 5 mins on ebay....

Don't feel bad. I live equal driving distance between the capital of the US and Baltimore which is a large city in MD. I still have to drive an hour + to get to an Apple store.

MaxxuM
17th of September 2009 (Thu), 17:34
Don't feel bad. I live equal driving distance between the capital of the US and Baltimore which is a large city in MD. I still have to drive an hour + to get to an Apple store.

That's noth'en. Try living in Texas - if it's within 3hrs its considered practically next door :)

Village_Idiot
18th of September 2009 (Fri), 11:03
There's a person on the Computer section of vwvortex.com that was reporting a similar issue. After installing SL, the batter went from 88% to something like 10-20% iirc.

basroil
18th of September 2009 (Fri), 11:17
There's a person on the Computer section of vwvortex.com that was reporting a similar issue. After installing SL, the batter went from 88% to something like 10-20% iirc.

It's completely possible that they redid the battery health algorithms, especially after all those exploding battery reports. Should be safer now, but that also means batteries will have cells killed off at a much faster rate.

Fastfwd13
18th of September 2009 (Fri), 11:22
My idea on this:

I love OS X and would like to be able to install it on my work laptop which is a Dell.
but...

another main advantage of Apple is that they have tight control over the hardware and this allows them to have better drivers since they support a limited numbers of devices. I would definitely not go with a 3rd party battery on a laptop or even in my camera, not worth it compared to the price of the laptop/camera.

It's quite possible that the battery had troubles before and that the newer battery software in snow leopard detected the problem better. It's also quite possible that this just happened at the same time. And yes there is a chance that snow leopard does not work well with the battery and there is a new bug there. But I highly doubt that software caused the battery to have a physical problem. It should be back to working just as well once back on leopard or tiger.

My bet is that the battery was on its way out and that the answer is to stay with snow leopard and get a new battery, possibly under warranty.

zincozinco
18th of September 2009 (Fri), 14:20
Don't feel bad. I live equal driving distance between the capital of the US and Baltimore which is a large city in MD. I still have to drive an hour + to get to an Apple store.

but do you go? if so a pad on the shoulder! :) for me thats just way too much....

Village_Idiot
18th of September 2009 (Fri), 14:31
It's completely possible that they redid the battery health algorithms, especially after all those exploding battery reports. Should be safer now, but that also means batteries will have cells killed off at a much faster rate.

I believe he said this happened right after the upgrade. I know between Tiger and Leopard there were 3rd party hardware issues, especially with drivers in the music production community. Maybe it's a bug that was overlooked?

but do you go? if so a pad on the shoulder! :) for me thats just way too much....

Yeah. I have friends that live nearby so I make it a weekend trip.

zincozinco
21st of September 2009 (Mon), 06:48
just to keep this alive today i hooked up the machine and now it reads the battery....

basroil
21st of September 2009 (Mon), 10:10
just to keep this alive today i hooked up the machine and now it reads the battery....

Does sound like a software glitch

Fastfwd13
21st of September 2009 (Mon), 10:13
Does sound like a software glitch

I was thinking the opposite :D

Software would always give the same result 1+1=2

Hardware could cause the software to read the first one as a 2 and then
2+1=3

What I am sure of is that it's not a bug that affects all snow leopard users or we would definitely know by now. the physical battery has a problem that maybe manifests itself only in snow leopard but the problem is there

Village_Idiot
21st of September 2009 (Mon), 10:31
I was thinking the opposite :D

Software would always give the same result 1+1=2

Hardware could cause the software to read the first one as a 2 and then
2+1=3

What I am sure of is that it's not a bug that affects all snow leopard users or we would definitely know by now. the physical battery has a problem that maybe manifests itself only in snow leopard but the problem is there

Not true. If there's a condition in the battery that changes as per normal but there's a bug in the software that causes it to read wrong when it hits a certain condition, the it could definitely be bad programming.

Fastfwd13
21st of September 2009 (Mon), 10:34
Not true. If there's a condition in the battery that changes as per normal but there's a bug in the software that causes it to read wrong when it hits a certain condition, the it could definitely be bad programming.

You are right but my point is that this is not a widespread bug so I think that this battery is really faulty or at the very least "strange" enough to be a problem to the software code. Should be covered under warranty.

basroil
21st of September 2009 (Mon), 10:48
I was thinking the opposite :D

Software would always give the same result 1+1=2

Hardware could cause the software to read the first one as a 2 and then
2+1=3

What I am sure of is that it's not a bug that affects all snow leopard users or we would definitely know by now. the physical battery has a problem that maybe manifests itself only in snow leopard but the problem is there

Not actually true. You can have software that gives you 1+1=2, then the same thing will tell you 1+1=11. Hell, run it a third time and maybe you can get 1+1 to equal a buffer overflow. There's a reason that restarting a machine if things don't work properly usually solves issues.

However, it is likely not covered in the warranty, batteries usually are usually explicitly left out.

Fastfwd13
21st of September 2009 (Mon), 10:50
However, it is likely not covered in the warranty, batteries usually are usually explicitly left out.

We had a different issue with my wife's macbook's battery. It went from many hours of autonomy to barely a few minutes within one week. Apple store refused to change it under warranty but calling Apple phone support worked. they shipped us a new battery with a box to return the defective one. It's worth a shot.

basroil
21st of September 2009 (Mon), 11:08
We had a different issue with my wife's macbook's battery. It went from many hours of autonomy to barely a few minutes within one week. Apple store refused to change it under warranty but calling Apple phone support worked. they shipped us a new battery with a box to return the defective one. It's worth a shot.

Issue here is OP said it's 14months old. Unless he can prove it was OSX that killed the battery and not time, it'll be an uphill battle... and by uphill I mean going up a cliff with a pen and a lead weight

MaxxuM
21st of September 2009 (Mon), 13:24
Issue here is OP said it's 14months old. Unless he can prove it was OSX that killed the battery and not time, it'll be an uphill battle... and by uphill I mean going up a cliff with a pen and a lead weight

Even if he could prove it was the OS they are still not under any obligation to replace it. The battery warranty and the release for the OS both say as much.

The sad fact is that leaving a battery depleted for months at a time can have some pretty bad effects. If the battery had been kept charged, at least minimally, it probably would not have died.

basroil
21st of September 2009 (Mon), 13:49
Even if he could prove it was the OS they are still not under any obligation to replace it. The battery warranty and the release for the OS both say as much.

The sad fact is that leaving a battery depleted for months at a time can have some pretty bad effects. If the battery had been kept charged, at least minimally, it probably would not have died.

Actually, it's the other way around :rolleyes:
Just read http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm , various others will say the same thing. When talking about backup batteries (lead acid), then yes, low storage charge can be very bad when you plug them back into a system.

MaxxuM
21st of September 2009 (Mon), 19:48
Actually, it's the other way around :rolleyes:
Just read http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm , various others will say the same thing. When talking about backup batteries (lead acid), then yes, low storage charge can be very bad when you plug them back into a system.

After getting some time I read the article and it pretty much reiterates everything I've said with one slight caveat; 'storing' a battery at full charge can be bad for lithium batteries (et al).

The sad fact is that leaving a battery depleted for months at a time can have some pretty bad effects. If the battery had been kept charged, at least minimally, it probably would not have died.

The article seems to agree with me, at least in theory, with this point.

"The worst condition is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures, which is the case with running laptop batteries." - BatteryUniversity

I've also stated that high temperatures are a bad thing and recommended (if not to others) that they should buy a lap cooler to keep battery temperatures down.

"Some reserve charge is needed to keep the battery and its protection circuit operational during prolonged storage." BatteryUniversity

As I have said (they recommend about 40% charge).

"Some lithium-ion batteries fail due to excessive low discharge." BatteryUniversity

Again, at least a minimal charge may have helped (if the battery was not already faulty).

"Some reserve charge is needed to keep the battery and its protection circuit operational during prolonged storage." BatteryUniversity

"To prevent failure, never store the battery fully discharged. Apply some charge before storage, and then charge fully before use." BatteryUniversity

It seems I'm batting near a thousand ;) Though my recommendation for keeping about a 80% charge is not optimal for battery life, it at least is no where as bad as keeping it dead as it seems you are advocating.

In my experience it is far better to fully charge a battery than leave it dead. I have to order 30-50 batteries a year because people don't listen to me and charge their laptops just before summer break.

Two additional notes, they really never cover what prolonged storage may be. I would guess most users that use their laptops often cannot store their batteries at 40% charge therefore should cycle (let die) their batteries every 20-30 charges. The other is that I've read (but never really tried) that MBP's actually will decrease in speed if run without their batteries which is not optimal. My early 08 MBP battery is at 88% health (my be false reading) and is coming on it's second year of use. I still get about 2 1/2 to 3 hours of use from it on battery. The COW's (Computers On Wheels) that I manage are also doing very well (about 60 laptops) and some are in their third year of use... So, me thinks I'm doing an OK job ;)

basroil
22nd of September 2009 (Tue), 01:29
"Some reserve charge is needed to keep the battery and its protection circuit operational during prolonged storage." BatteryUniversity

As I have said (they recommend about 40% charge).

"Some lithium-ion batteries fail due to excessive low discharge." BatteryUniversity

Again, at least a minimal charge may have helped (if the battery was not already faulty).

"Some reserve charge is needed to keep the battery and its protection circuit operational during prolonged storage." BatteryUniversity

"To prevent failure, never store the battery fully discharged. Apply some charge before storage, and then charge fully before use." BatteryUniversity



Yes, I didn't quite read OP's post correctly the first time... In windows, everything defaults to 15% left=hibernation, so didn't quite catch that he was actually draining it to 0%. Not sure why anyone would ever let the computer drain to 0 unless they are recalibrating the battery, and you actually need to change defaults even in OSX to allow it right?.

wlescall
24th of September 2009 (Thu), 10:31
http://www.tuaw.com/2009/09/24/10-6-falsely-reports-service-battery-i-think-not/

The end of the article lists battery care tips.

How to calibrate the battery for MacBook & MacBook Pros (from Apple):

1. Plug in the power adapter and fully charge your PowerBook's battery until the light ring or LED on the power adapter plug changes to green and the onscreen meter in the menu bar indicates that the battery is fully charged.

2. Allow the battery to rest in the fully charged state for at least two hours. You may use your computer during this time as long as the adapter is plugged in.

3. Disconnect the power adapter while the computer still on and start running the computer off battery power. You may use your computer during this time. When your battery gets low, the low battery warning dialog appears on the screen.

4. At this point, save your work. Continue to use your computer; when the battery gets very low, the computer will automatically go to sleep.

5. Turn off the computer or allow it to sleep for five hours or more.

6. Connect the power adapter and leave it connected until the battery is fully charged again.

Tip: When the battery reaches "empty", the computer is forced into sleep mode. The battery actually keeps back a reserve beyond "empty", to maintain the computer in sleep for a period of time. Once the battery is truly exhausted, the computer is forced to shut down. At this point, with the safe sleep function introduced in the PowerBook G4 (15-inch Double-Layer SD) computers, the computer's memory contents have been saved to the hard drive. When power is restored, the computer returns itself to its pre-sleep state using the safe sleep image on the hard drive.