Youth Football: Shooting Short

[rhurwitz]

I was asked to shoot an upcoming 9-10 year old football game (day time) for a friend. I have shot swim meets where the action is close, but I have never shot a football game. My longest lens is 210mm, and after reading a number of threads on shooting youth football I'm concerned that I will be shooting short for a game where 400mm and 300mm lenses are typical.

My question is, being limited to my 40D and 70-210 lens, although I may be able to rent a 70-200 F/2.8, how should I position myself to get good action shots and make the kids and their parents happy? The usual advice of setting up behind the end zone doesn't seem like it would work with the limits of my glass.

Thanks,
Roger

[asysin2leads]

In my opinion, and it's been discussed here recently, that 70-200 is perfect for pee wee (pop warner) football. It allows you to get closer to the action (physically) and have greater separation of the subject from the background. The 300 or 400 requires you to move further away from the action. I'm not sure about the league you'll be shooting, but shooting from behind the endzones is forbidden. Talk to site management or the officials regarding where you are permitted to be. I try to position myself about 15-20 yards in front of the offense and let them come to me. I've found that it works best for me. There won't be 50 yard passes in this league. 15-20 yards will allow you to get the QB in action and the receiver if he's on your side.

I think renting the 70-200 is your best bet. It allows you to maintain a constant aperture. Shoot Av mode w/ a +1/3 - +2/3 EC with either f/2.8 or f/3.2. If you have good daylight, you can get away w/ an iso of 100 and maintain a faster shutter speed. Use center point AF. Hope all this helps.

Here's one from today. I had to crop a little bit, but I'm happy w/ the results.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4490/img8835.jpg

[rhurwitz]

Thanks for the great advice. If I can get some shots anywhere near as nice as yours I will be happy. :)

The coach said he would get me a press pass for the game, but I will check with the officials to see how much freedom of movement I have.

I like the idea of being about 15-20 yards ahead of the action. I had a chance to watch the kids play the other day, and I didn't see too many deep plays.

Regarding the exposure compensation bump, is that to lighten faces under the helmets, or for some other reason?

Again, thanks for the helpful advice.

Roger

[asysin2leads]

Thanks for the great advice. If I can get some shots anywhere near as nice as yours I will be happy. :)

The coach said he would get me a press pass for the game, but I will check with the officials to see how much freedom of movement I have.

I like the idea of being about 15-20 yards ahead of the action. I had a chance to watch the kids play the other day, and I didn't see too many deep plays.

Regarding the exposure compensation bump, is that to lighten faces under the helmets, or for some other reason?

Again, thanks for the helpful advice.

Roger

Yes, the increase of EC is to get some light under the helmets. Remember to have fun, too. Thanks for the compliment, btw. The only thing hard is when they run to the opposite side. That's when I just enjoy the game.

[rhurwitz]

Well, one more wrinkle on the story: I checked w/ our local lens rental guys (Pro Photo Supply), and all the 70-200s were already reserved for the coming weekend. So, I took a chance on reserving the Canon 100-400 F/4-5.6. The game is at 3pm on Saturday, so I'm hoping for lots and lots of light to feed this beast. On the other hand, it may be a good way to test the high ISO limits of my 40D. :)

[asysin2leads]

Well, one more wrinkle on the story: I checked w/ our local lens rental guys (Pro Photo Supply), and all the 70-200s were already reserved for the coming weekend. So, I took a chance on reserving the Canon 100-400 F/4-5.6. The game is at 3pm on Saturday, so I'm hoping for lots and lots of light to feed this beast. On the other hand, it may be a good way to test the high ISO limits of my 40D. :)

A 15:00 game should provide ample light for the 100-400. It's a good lens. Keep an eye on your histogram to make sure you're exposing everything ok. Good luck with the game and make sure you post results.

[asysin2leads]

The 40D does fine w/ high iso, btw. Look here (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=6785151&postcount=1). I doubt you'll need it for an afternoon game.

[wyofizz]

Another thing to keep in mind is that your youth football field may not be as wide as Jr High and HS fields so your action is closer.
I really like the 70-200 with the 1.4EXT for youth football.

Dave

[asysin2leads]

Another thing to keep in mind is that your youth football field may not be as wide as Jr High and HS fields so your action is closer.
I really like the 70-200 with the 1.4EXT for youth football.

Dave

I've officiated football going on 15 years now and the pee wee play on HS sized fields, at least around here. I'm sure there are youth sized fields.

[eigga]

Not sure that the 70-200 is perfect for pee-wee football... The same size field and smaller subjects seems to call for longer FL. I prefer the 300 and sometimes with the the 1.4 TC since they are day games.

The 100-400 will be a real good FL but pay attention to your backgrounds as it will not help you as much in that area.

[bnorm27]

This was shot with the 70-200 f2.8 and 1.4x teleconverter attached. I was about 20 yards down ahead of the offiense, as this team was throwing the ball a lot for a Pop Warner team.


http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc357/bnorm27/kbtre1a.jpg

[wyofizz]

If the field is full size I agree with Eigga. 300 with 1.4Ext would present great opportunities with the little guys.:)

[J.Napier]

I've officiated football going on 15 years now and the pee wee play on HS sized fields, at least around here. I'm sure there are youth sized fields.

Pretty typical for around here too, I live near the OP and just shot one of the local jamboree in Portland.

rhurwitz,
What league is this for? Keep in mind at this age most of the plays will be run to the outside as there is not much effective inside blocking going on. I did shoot the whole day with my 70-200 with the 1.4 TC on. 300 2.8 would be nice but the zoom gives you more options when the play gets close to the sidelines.

[S.Horton]

200 is a bit short. If you must do it, then get on the sideline either right on the line of scrimmage or 10 yds off it and plan to crop pretty aggressively.

+1 for the 100-400, if you're going to rent and you're in daylight.

[eigga]

The ideal setup is the 70-200 and the 300

here is an example with the 300.. considering the fields these guys play on around here I try to isolate as much as possible. Also it is VERY difficult to get action images of the interior line with 200mm IMO .. the ball carrier and QB are fairly easy

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff66/mcgomez13/SaintsvCowboys-184-2.jpg

[rhurwitz]

A 15:00 game should provide ample light for the 100-400. It's a good lens. Keep an eye on your histogram to make sure you're exposing everything ok. Good luck with the game and make sure you post results.
Thanks. I'm actually just as excited to try out the lens as I am to shoot the game. ;)
The 40D does fine w/ high iso, btw. Look here. I doubt you'll need it for an afternoon game.
Thanks. Those basketball shots are great, but I agree if I end up at at 1600 ISO on a Saturday afternoon something has gone very wrong.

I've officiated football going on 15 years now and the pee wee play on HS sized fields, at least around here. I'm sure there are youth sized fields.
Yes, the teams in this league play on High School full fields. I caught a glimpse of the action last weekend.

What league is this for? Keep in mind at this age most of the plays will be run to the outside as there is not much effective inside blocking going on. I did shoot the whole day with my 70-200 with the 1.4 TC on. 300 2.8 would be nice but the zoom gives you more options when the play gets close to the sidelines.
The team is part of the Tualatin Valley Youth Football League (http://www.tvyfl.org/). Thanks for the tip about plays being run to the outside. That is consistent with what I saw last weekend. Your comment about ineffective blocking is , umm, an understatement. ;)

+1 for the 100-400, if you're going to rent and you're in daylight.
Yup, I'm locked and loaded on 100-400, and I have my fingers crossed about the weather/sun.

Thanks again to everyone for all the great advice. I will definitely post the results (good or bad) after the game.
Roger

[J.Napier]

The team is part of the Tualatin Valley Youth Football League (http://www.tvyfl.org/). Thanks for the tip about plays being run to the outside. That is consistent with what I saw last weekend. Your comment about ineffective blocking is , umm, an understatement. ;)
rhurwitz,
Do any of these unis look familar? I was there shooting at the jamboree.Let me know if I can help you at any time. If you check out my website you can see the Tualatin cheerleaders at the nationals in California last March as well as my daughters team from Heritage.
Have fun shooting this weekend.

[bnorm27]

Jeff, were those all taken with the 70-200mm and the 1.4x?? Very nice!

[J.Napier]

bnorm27,
Yes all of these were with the 70-200 2.8 w/1.4 TC. Standing perhaps 10-15 yards down field of the line of scrimage. And thank you very much for the compliment.

[rhurwitz]

Jeff,

Great shots! I will be shooting the Sunset High 5/6 Purple youth squad. The game is this Saturday at Sunset High School from 3-5. Drop by if you are in the neighborhood. I will be the guy on the sidelines tripping over the long white lens. :)

[Edit 9/17]
Speaking of long white lenses, I picked up the rental 100-400 today and took a few backyard shots to get a feel for it. Pretty impressive on flowers, but then again flowers are not running downfield. ;) I also picked up an Op/Tech rainsleeve. Unfortunately, the weather forecast out here for Saturday is not looking so good.

394246394247

[ChunkyDA]

For the 6-10 year olds the 200mm will probably be too short. And speaking of short, my knees were hurting after a morning of these games, you really don't want to shoot down on them as they get close.

[rhurwitz]

Well, I had a great time shooting the game, and I LOVE the rental lens I used: the Canon 100-400 F/4.5-5.6L. I followed the great advice folks gave, including upping EC to compensate for under-helmet shadows, and positioning myself about 20 yards ahead of the action. I was a little surprised that I ended up having to shoot at 500+ ISO toward the end as clouds started to roll in.

Thanks again for all the help. Here are some samples from the game, as promsed. Feel free to C&C. I have thick skin. ;)

Roger


1.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/3935637731_8522d53d1a.jpg
2.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2505/3936419534_a7d1afaa41.jpg
3.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2517/3936430382_8b9fc54c39.jpg
4.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3561/3936427060_0eb9254cc7.jpg
5.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2428/3936422564_02446d680e.jpg

[Sibil]

They look very good to me.

[tfizzle]

they look good. Maybe a little hot on the whites in # 3. An L lens would get you a little bit more sharpness (according to my eyes). Plus having a non-variable aperture would help.

I took these with a 70-200 and found it adequate within 15 yards of the LOS. If they go opposite of you I don't see how a 300 would help as they are running away and you don't really get any "face" shots. I love my 70-200 4L with football in daylight even if I have to crop some. Being able to pull back to 70 when they are coming toward me helps a lot. Such as this one (PP cuz I like to):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2460/3935668393_22a1262f52.jpg

Even if I have the crop the L gives me great sharpness. This was shot in landscape and cropped to portrait. (no change in pixel resolution I suppose. But you can do it!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2621/3935566084_c3f7f670cb.jpg

[Gatorboy]

I prefer shooting tight, and these kids are small, so the longer the lens you can get the better. These are with my Sigma 120-300 f/2.8

http://www.harfordsports.com/hidden/forumImages/CC-4.jpg

http://www.harfordsports.com/hidden/forumImages/060909-05.jpg

http://www.harfordsports.com/hidden/forumImages/060909-01.jpg