Newbie's looking for help doing weddings

[pcunite]

You won't be very well received here if you have actually shot a wedding. This looks much worse in the eyes of someone who can potentially help you. Just don't say "I have done a few weddings". Why?

Because you have shown your "clients" images that are not even close to current standard 2009 quality that any photographer charging $2,000 can deliver. Your "clients" think your work is what we sell to others only you "being a real nice guy" did it for so much less.

"But they were happy with me" I was happy too when someone gave me a good deal on my first car. Till I found out later it was a piece of junk! Your happy customers are only so for a short time... till they come across images from a real wedding photographer.

Both you and them are going to feel different in a few short years. You have robbed them forever of having good pictures for that day. Congratulations on stealing the moment for both a paid photographer who feeds his family, and the Bride never getting to see how pretty her wedding really was.

Yes someone will take your place... but its only because the public does not realize what kind of people you are... but they will eventually.

I will be redoing wedding pictures for a newbie who charged $1,200 dollars to a sweet couple. He showed up with two Canon Rebel XTs. One had the kit lens and 580EX flash mounted, the other had some super zoom (18-250 sigma I think).

The pictures turned out monstrous... probably his first time ever to shoot in a dark church building... it is easy shooting outside okay? Wedding pros shoot everywhere.

Thanks to clowns like this here is what happened to me at my last wedding
----
The minister of the church comes up to me and starts talking about where I should stand and giving me general advise on how to conduct myself. I am thinking to myself "do I look that retarded?"

I am listening respectfully and then he starts to talk about flash... I interrupted him at that point and tell him that the couple likes the look I will use with flash and he is okay with flash right? He says yes and then I interrupt him again and tell him that he won't even see my flashes fire. I am very discreet with them and no I will not get up on the platform and shoot in your face. The last photographer that came through his church must have been a real newbie...

He took it well. After the wedding I asked "how did I do, did the flash bother you?" He said he never noticed it! I thank him and said "I am not like those other guys!"
----

Now here is an example of a newbie making me look bad before I even get a chance to prove myself to new people. I will accept the opinion of others that they are not taking business from me... but one thing they are doing is making it very embarrassing to say that you photograph weddings and I am making the point that this is worse than it has even been now that everything is digital.

Can you imagine what it feels like for someone to tell you how to photograph a wedding and you have spent $20,000 + just getting in the door of the building and thousands of dollars are boucing around your kneecap, and you'll drop a camera and pick up another if need be?

If your really serious about HELPING Brides have great pictures of THEIR day (not your day), if you truly want THEM to be happy 20 years from now, and your not just interested in feeding your ego and making a quick $500 then please have at least (to get you started) $10,000 ready to spend and go into the business. Then ask us what you need to buy okay?

Let me summarize:

You want to shoot weddings!
You've never done one yourself.
You believe that customer service is paramount.
You don't want to ruin the reputation of the industry.
You have $10,000 to spend.Great, how can I help?

[czeglin]

I didn't vote because neither option is fair. Sure, if you're no good and you charge too much, you're ripping people off. But some people can't afford better or don't appreciate difference. There is a legitimate place for newbies in the business. If nobody new started charging for their services there wouldn't be any wedding photographers in 20 years, they would all have retired. It's the same way it is with any profession, you pay more for experience. I'm shooting my first wedding on Oct 3rd for the cost of my expenses with absolutely no profit (in fact I have spent $1,000+ of my own money). I advised them to hire a pro. They didn't have the money. What am I supposed to say?

EDIT: That $1,000 was just since they asked me. Total for my whole kit is probably closer to $4k. I know it's not $10k, but this is just a hobby.

[pcunite]

As long as you tell them "this is not my profession, I am just trying this out" then I am okay with it. It is those acting like they are a professional wedding pro that really hurts us all.

[jonwhite]

Very strange thread.

I don't mind newbies asking any questions, I was one myself a couple of years ago .... its the people that come over all holier than thou but share little or none of their own work, don't have links to their websites etc. that annoy me.

BTW, if you used flash at most of the places I shoot weddings at you would get kicked out mid ceremony, flash is a big no no during the ceremony and despite what you previously assured a minister I am pretty sure your flashes are not in fact invisible..... not seen any of those for sale yet.

[SOK]

I don't understand the question.

The OP seems to be half a rant, half a lecture, and neither half is structured very well.

I had to double check that the OP was in fact the first post in the thread.

Spend some more time looking around around the sharing threads - not everybody produces a disaster as their first attempt at a wedding...and few of them use $10k worth of gear.

[Peacefield]

I also don't think I understand the question.

One of the things I require from my brides two weeks before the wedding (along with their final payment) is contact info for the minister. I will call him a few days before, introduce myself, and ask if there are any restrictions on photography or for my movements during the ceremony that might be out of the ordinary. That simple act confirms for him that he's dealing with a professional who is thoughtful and respectful. Not only that, they are genuinely appreciative of my reaching out. A few times this summer, I've had a few go out of their way opening up places for me to shoot or giving me a heads up on some element that might make a great shot if I'm in a certain spot and ready. I don't doubt that those opportunities came out of his/her's appreciation.

Hacks and newbies will always be out there (as they should be). It's up to us to distinguish ourselves from them, not just in the quality of our images but how we conduct ourselves and manage our personal interactions.

[tim]

Your post is too long and rambling, I have no idea what you're on about.

[bnlearle]

I was just about to write the exact same thing Tim just wrote. I tried your summary and felt even more lost...

[joshr03]

It takes $10,000 just to get started? I knew I was doing something wrong..I guess I should be building up my credit instead of practicing photography. Thanks for the tip!

[tim]

It takes $10,000 just to get started? I knew I was doing something wrong..I guess I should be building up my credit instead of practicing photography. Thanks for the tip!

That's be cheap. Two bodies, at least a few good lenses, a couple of flashes, memory, etc, $10K's gone easily even if you buy prosumer equipment.

[pcunite]

Gentleman, my post is an in-depth thought directed toward those desiring to photograph weddings. It is not written for seasoned photographers. Try reading it again a little slower...

:)

[tim]

Reread. I think you need to rewrite it to be more clear and concise, and outline from the start what you're trying to say.

[SOK]

Gentleman, my post is an in-depth thought directed toward those desiring to photograph weddings. It is not written for seasoned photographers. Try reading it again a little slower...

I'm an enthusiastic hobbyist, but hardly a 'seasoned photographer', so by this logic I should understand your post?

Regardless of my status as a photographer, I'm quite accomplished at reading (I've been doing it most of my life), and no matter how slowly I read this, it does not make sense;

You won't be very well received here if you have actually shot a wedding. This looks much worse in the eyes of someone who can potentially help you. Just don't say "I have done a few weddings". Why?

Neither does your 'summary'...

Let me summarize:
You want to shoot weddings!
You've never done one yourself.
You believe that customer service is paramount.
You don't want to ruin the reputation of the industry.
You have $10,000 to spend.Great, how can I help?

7 out of 7 respondents don't get what you're on about. Maybe the problem isn't related to reading speed....?

[mjadse]

8 out of 8... and I think I'm one of your targets.

I read your summary several times because since I made it through your rant, I figured I should keep going and try to learn something. I REALLY don't get it. Let's see if I'm close. I'll summarize what I learned:
- I should not rob a couple from forever having good photos of their day.
- I should not steal money from a photographer (and his family).
- I should not get on a platform and flash in someone's face.
- Most of all, I should not make you look bad.
- I should spend $10,000 on equipment then ask you for help.

What is the help you will give me if I can do all that? Just curious.


(The only part I really understood is the part where you were extremely disrespectful as a guest to the minister of the church. Being respectful means not interrupting. And even I know as a newbie, with good equipment and basic setting knowledge, it is easy to get great photos during a ceremony without a flash.)

[pcunite]

For those claiming to not understanding my writing style... perhaps you are being disingenuous because of the emotional nature of calling out incompetence. Indeed most posts thus far are from forum member not new to POTN and therefore I can only gather that you have seen most writing styles and are not confused at what I am trying to say. Perhaps you just don't want me to say it? I am not certain as to why because it is not directed towards you.

What gives me reason to post is because in the last two months I have become aware of several brides heart broken over their wedding pictures. All weddings were shot from persons charging much more than $500. I think that POTN is one of the most helpful and friendly boards around. However, I also think that we can be a little too helpful in the wrong way. If my five year old daughter wants to know how to start the family's sedan I don't just answer her question. The very nature of her question reveals that she has no business driving!

There are numerous posts on this board that are from those heading out to do a wedding. We school most of them on the fact that they need to charge $1,500 or more, that they need a 24-70, that they need this and that. Well I can tell you they are listening but it is not helping brides...

Given the above information perhaps you understand my frustrations and embarrassment of the wedding photography industry. I predict this problem will reach epidemic proportions before anything helpful emergences.

To be clear... everyone can learn. My statement to pros and those who want to be... let's learn it the right way. I would rather go out of business because everyone in town is very good than to hit a two year dry spell because 50 newbies try it three times and now that I have no work I go out of business.

[bnlearle]

I can't make sense of your first line...

"Newbie's looking for help doing weddings - you won't be very well received here if you have actually shot a wedding."

[Mike]

Everyone has to start somewhere. I still don't really see the point of this rant. It is not very helpful and not very constructive.

[pcunite]

I can't make sense of your first line...

"Newbie's looking for help doing weddings - you won't be very well received here if you have actually shot a wedding."

It is a line speaking to the newbie who has shot a few weddings, has now potentially made the industry look bad, and now wants help with what lens, camera, CF card, etc to buy. I forewarn in the same sentence that having done a wedding does not impress all by itself. Anyone can get someone to let you shoot their wedding.

[pcunite]

Everyone has to start somewhere. I still don't really see the point of this rant. It is not very helpful and not very constructive.

True, it is not helpful at all to someone currently shooting weddings and making us all look bad. If you can get past that... then there is a challenge to get help the correct way. So many are stumbling over this simple but effective tough love.

[pcunite]

I think that all of us who answer wedding related questions need to approach these a different way from now on. This is just a suggestion, I am not the authority... but if someone asks which camera to use, or which lens, and a respected member of POTN answers that question then they have unwittingly legitimized the requestor's incompetence.

It should not be acceptable to ask those type questions on a public forum and then proceed to shoot a wedding. These individuals should be recommended to a local camera club and start the 6 month learning process. It would take over a year of solid everyday reading the forums to get a tiny glimpse of what you need to know and all the nuances of what happens during a wedding shoot. Reading forums and getting advice does not cut it and we should know better.

This is not rocket science, I am not even suggested it would be hard to learn. But it does take time to learn and that from proper hands on learning. Go shoot portraits for a year if you want to do wedding work. You won't be asking what camera/lens to use if you have. In a portrait setting you can screw up over and over and go back the next day and screw up again. You can't do that with weddings so please stop destroying the very industry you so proudly want to be a part of.

[Mike]

It is a line speaking to the newbie who has shot a few weddings

When does a "newbie who has shot a few weddings" become a wedding photographer?

[pcunite]

When does a "newbie who has shot a few weddings" become a wedding photographer?

Since the definition of a wedding photographer is not legally defined, the answer varies from person to person.

My take... your a wedding photographer when you know how to use camera/flash/lens combo in any situation. Artistic styles should not be judged as pro or non-pro... just please know what your doing.

Pretty simple huh? I have seen people shoot a wedding that was outside. They felt good about themselves and the client liked the work. The next wedding they shot was indoors. They screw up every single shot...

I have seen wedding work from persons who don't do weddings... or very few I should say. They just do their own contrived work. They know cameras, they know what the aperture is for, ISO, shutter speed, etc... When they do a wedding every shot is fabulous!

[jonwhite]

I have seen wedding work from persons who don't do weddings... or very few I should say. They just do their own contrived work. They know cameras, they know what the aperture is for, ISO, shutter speed, etc... When they do a wedding every shot is fabulous!




I have seen wedding photos and other photos from many users here, new and old ones but ive not seen any of yours.

Don't see a professional website linked from your profile or any other examples of your work posted here either.

I aren't saying that you don't have these, its just that its easier to take someone spouting off about newbies when there's evidence of their own work as a reference point.

[pcunite]

I have seen wedding photos and other photos from many users here, new and old ones but I've not seen any of yours.

Don't see a professional website linked from your profile or any other examples of your work posted here either.


I don't post pictures because I don't require constant praise to affirm my artistic tastes... think of all the threads that say "From my latest wedding" and then the 20 pages of "wonderful, great, excellent, what lens did you use?"

I don't post a link to my website because I prefer to remain anonymous so that potential clients don't see all the heated discussions I get into!
:)

Because of the nature of our discussion you ask a fair question so I will post the following samples. I do mostly contrived portrait work with weddings coming from referrals and I take the ones that interest me.

These are all I care to take the time to format for posting (it also won't allow for more than eight):

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4018/sample1f.jpg

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6587/sample2l.jpg

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7186/sample3b.jpg

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2369/sample4g.jpg


http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2124/sample6s.jpg

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5070/sample7.jpg

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9686/sample8l.jpg

[bnlearle]

I'm going to get the popcorn...

[tim]

You may have a good point to make, but honestly your writing style is terrible. Effective communication gets a clear point across clearly and quickly. Your writing doesn't do that. I did a writing course last year that helped me write more effectively, perhaps you could look into that. Are you a native English speaker?

Your images have also helped us place you on the beginner/expert curve, so thanks for that.

[Peacefield]

You may have a good point to make, but honestly your writing style is terrible.

I guess those are the two things to take from this. Your too long message was difficult to make much sense of, though I did get what you were going for (and feel I addressed it in my much earlier response); that a newbie who goes before you can color the perception of others towards you and the profession. I guess I and the others here don't believe that view to be valid.

In every shoot, we all have to work with wedding officials, banquet managers, DJ's and bands, and more. I've never been received as anything other than a professional because I carry and conduct myself that way. I don't mean to be critical nor make this personal, but seriously, if you're having an issue with being viewed as a serious professional regardless of who went before you, it may be time to examine how you present and carry yourself. If you're not receiving adequate respect from others in the wedding profession, the hack who went before you can't deserve all the credit.

[SOK]

What gives me reason to post is because in the last two months I have become aware of several brides heart broken over their wedding pictures. All weddings were shot from persons charging much more than $500. I think that POTN is one of the most helpful and friendly boards around. However, I also think that we can be a little too helpful in the wrong way. If my five year old daughter wants to know how to start the family's sedan I don't just answer her question. The very nature of her question reveals that she has no business driving!

If you had started this thread with that paragraph, it may not have taken 2 pages to understand where you're coming from!

I think I see what you're driving at...

You may have a good point to make, but honestly your writing style is terrible.

I don't normally buy into the threads that disintegrate into spelling bees and English lessons, but Tim is spot on. Really. I have this mental image of you furiously typing to keep up with a bunch of arguments that are randomly rolling around in your head, and in the process creating a post that no-one can make sense of!

Are you a native English speaker?

I was actually going to ask this myself, but now that I know the thrust of your argument, all I can say is, I agree with this.

Everyone has to start somewhere.

In the context of the discussion, you need to acknowledge that everyone WILL start somewhere.

The newbies with their XTi's and nifty fifties WILL go and shoot that wedding for their broke half-cousin's brother.

I don't think the full time wedding photographers here endorse it, but they accept that it's going to happen, and figure that a little bit of advice at the last minute is better than none at all.

[jonwhite]

I don't post pictures because I don't require constant praise to affirm my artistic tastes... think of all the threads that say "From my latest wedding" and then the 20 pages of "wonderful, great, excellent, what lens did you use?"

I don't post a link to my website because I prefer to remain anonymous so that potential clients don't see all the heated discussions I get into!
:)

Because of the nature of our discussion you ask a fair question so I will post the following samples. I do mostly contrived portrait work with weddings coming from referrals and I take the ones that interest me.

These are all I care to take the time to format for posting (it also won't allow for more than eight):


Thanks for posting some pics.

I think there's many more reasons to post pictures than the one you stated, I definitely don't post pictures to receive praise, yup its nice when people like what I post but its very useful when people offer constructive critique of them, I haven't seen many people here who couldn't benefit from that. Looking at other peoples work and hearing what they do and dont like about my own work I find a very useful learning technique. SEO is another good reason to share stuff here.

Not posting a link to your website and hiding behind a forum name I find a bit sad tbh and probably says more about what your saying than the random sentances you strung together to start this thread.

[Mrsjperry]

I'm going to get the popcorn...

Scoot over and share darn it!

[10bmw10]

not all photogs who use an XT are newbies...just saying.

[Roy Mathers]

I've just come this thread and I must say that I agree with all those (the majority, it seems) who think the writing style is terrible. Steve says that 'I don't normally buy into the threads that disintegrate into spelling bees and English lessons' but the main purpose of language is to communicate - and this, I'm afraid doesn't communicate much! The OP also implied, in a later post, that if you didn't understand his writing, it was because you didn't agree with the views expressed (whatever they may be)!

One thing I gleaned from it was the the OP was offended that the minister treated him like a 'retard' by 'talking about where I should stand and giving me general advice on how to conduct myself''. If the OP were an experienced wedding photographer, he would know that the majority of ministers do this, not necessarily to be officious but sometimes to be helpful.

One of the other things I got from this is the fact that, although I didn't vote myself, 80% of those who did thought he was a jerk:)

[Mike]

If the OP were an experienced wedding photographer, he would know that the majority of ministers do this, not necessarily to be officious but sometimes to be helpful.
Exactly, I always speak to the officiant before the ceremony to get the "house rules" and they also know the best spots for good shots.

One of the other things I got from this is the fact that, although I didn't vote myself, 80% of those who did thought he was a jerk:)
:D:D

[pcunite]

If the OP were an experienced wedding photographer, he would know that the majority of ministers do this, not necessarily to be officious but sometimes to be helpful.


I was not relating the story of a helpful minister but who had been once bitten twice shy. Does it make you feel better to think of me as incompetent?

[joedlh]

Okay, we get it. You're on a rant about losing business to people whom you view as inferior. It's not a new rant. We've seen it before. However, yours is particularly incoherent. I'm a writer as well as a photographer. It's not a question of writing style. Your sentence structure is tortured and there is little consistent flow of ideas. When I read your original post, my thought was: he's angry. He should have slept on it and looked at what he wrote the next day, making corrections as appropriate.

And who hasn't heard of a bride who has not been heartbroken over her wedding shots? Or if it's not the bride, it's the bride's mother, or Aunt Mildred, or the maid of honor who just hated her gown. After all, isn't it true that most of them want to be seen as far more beautiful and lithe than their natural gifts would normally allow? So your anecdotes of heartbroken brides is not a strong argument.

And one last word: yes, one needs basic equipment and lighting. However, it's what one does with that equipment that makes memorable photographs. An entry level SLR can do fine work. Heck, the S90 or G11 would do pretty well too.

[Roy Mathers]

I was not relating the story of a helpful minister but who had been once bitten twice shy. Does it make you feel better to think of me as incompetent?


I didn't say you were incompetent. You are very touchy aren't you? Calm down.

[joedlh]

Hey Scooter, if you have to explain what you've written, then it needed some editing in the first place.

[Robert16]

(you were extremely disrespectful as a guest to the minister of the church. Being respectful means not interrupting. And even I know as a newbie, with good equipment and basic setting knowledge, it is easy to get great photos during a ceremony without a flash.) Agreed.
To the op - As well as having technical knowledge being socially aware is very important. Please don't use the expression "retarded". This will not win friends or influence people.:(

[mjadse]

Although this thread has a negative tone, it is very educational. To give the OP credit (opposed to my earlier post), I now DO understand what he is saying. I can say I already knew this and have acted accordingly but here is what I learned/confirmed:

--It does take a lot more than equipment to be a good wedding photographer.
--I will continue to warn couples that I am not highly experienced and will only do a wedding at a very low cost for those who cannot afford more until I can truly define myself as an experienced professional.

But I also learned much from the other posts here:

--Because of the personal and emotional demands at a wedding, it takes more than photographic expertise to be a good wedding photographer. Many of the pros here have shown compassion, patience, and grace that I would like to emulate.
--Good communication skills are very important.
--There are many pros here willing to help us newbies.

I also feel now that posters in this forum carry more credibility if they are not completely anonymous. Even though I do not have a website or any links (maybe someday!), I will start now by at least signing my real first name.

Thank you to all.
Johanna

[beegeeboy]

Have to agree with the others here...writing style really does not help at all with your case. To which, I'm not really sure I do either! I have learned LOADS from this forum, coming on here as a complete newbie. If someone wants some advice, why should it not be given. The people who you seem to so despise will shoot the wedding anyway, at least if they take some pointers from here the resulting pictures may well come out better than they would have done originally. Is that such a bad thing?

As you can see from the pictures on my site, I'm nowhere near ready enough to start shooting weddings; but I'm a darn site closer than I was 18 months ago! And that is due, mostly, to advice I've had and threads I've written on here.

So leave all those helpful people alone! ;)

David

[FlikChick]

I'm going to get the popcorn...



hahahaha me too. and a soda

[FlikChick]

Ok. So I suppose I'm a newbie. I've never been one who liked labels and things. It's pretty childish and seems elementary. I've been doing photography,film and digital for 6 years. I prefer film,I think it's beautiful.

I'm doing 2 weddings and honestly I think anyone,whether professional or newbie can do their best, and carrying yourself well and confident IS very important. For photographers who do a "bad" job at capturing the most important day of the brides life, really it's the bride,the groom, their families,friends....it's capturing everyone's moment together. I don't know if this makes sense, but I put my heart into every shot I take and how much I charge isn't obsessively important to me. If this isn't "written well" ,forgive me. I'm not an expert at grammar. I've had friends with point and shoot cameras ask me for advice and want to start doing their own photos, well kudos to them. If your so worried about being put out of work,then go into another profession/career. Stop whining about it. We all have a different eye for things, so it's not going to be the same for all photographers, alot of us have our tricks,tips,best ways that may be horrible for others..etc. This thread is disappointing. It is a rant, and we don't need mindless ranting,if you want to rant, find a [B]professional[B]psychologist and talk it out.

I say viva photographers! (I'm going to sleep now)

[elysium]

Oh man. I'm going to reply to this after some sleep

[jacksonvillenp]

I think that all of us who answer wedding related questions need to approach these a different way from now on. This is just a suggestion, I am not the authority... but if someone asks which camera to use, or which lens, and a respected member of POTN answers that question then they have unwittingly legitimized the requestor's incompetence.

It should not be acceptable to ask those type questions on a public forum and then proceed to shoot a wedding. These individuals should be recommended to a local camera club and start the 6 month learning process. It would take over a year of solid everyday reading the forums to get a tiny glimpse of what you need to know and all the nuances of what happens during a wedding shoot. Reading forums and getting advice does not cut it and we should know better.

This is not rocket science, I am not even suggested it would be hard to learn. But it does take time to learn and that from proper hands on learning. Go shoot portraits for a year if you want to do wedding work. You won't be asking what camera/lens to use if you have. In a portrait setting you can screw up over and over and go back the next day and screw up again. You can't do that with weddings so please stop destroying the very industry you so proudly want to be a part of.


I was seriously curious about this post and upon opening it was very disappointed. I appreciate your point and as far as newbs stealing jobs from professionals- I DO get your frustration. However, you make an assumption about the people on this forum. You are assuming that all who would ask those "stupid" questions are looking to pose as a "wedding photographer".

In my case, specifically I am looking to take FREE pictures for my sister who can't afford a "pro" and unless I, as a non-professional, non-wedding photographer take pics for her- wouldn't have anything but snapshots taken with point and shoot cameras, by people who don't have a clue what DOF is let alone understand lighting.

Some of us on here still enjoy photography as a HOBBY and are simply looking to those of you who have the know-how. Perhaps you should appeal to the creators of this forum for a professionals only section if you feel that talking to us "non-professionals" is beneath you.

[pcunite]

In my case, specifically I am looking to take FREE pictures for my sister who can't afford a "pro" and unless I, as a non-professional, non-wedding photographer take pics for her- wouldn't have anything but snapshots taken with point and shoot cameras, by people who don't have a clue what DOF is let alone understand lighting.


If you truly care about your family member then hire a portrait (not wedding) photographer to take 5-10 pictures of them all within an hour. You will have wonderful, quality, printable pictures that they will always cherish. Expect to pay somewhere around $250-$350 depending on your area.

[Jaymz]

If you truly care about your family member .....


What a line... :rolleyes:

[pcunite]

What a line... :rolleyes:

Just thinking of the bride. She sounds flat broke... for just a little money she can get quality.

[PMCphotography]

What if she doesn't have even a little money?

[Jaymz]

What if Jacksonvillenp can create quality photos?

[PMCphotography]

bw!

What if Jacksonvillenp can create quality photos?

[pcunite]

What if she doesn't have even a little money?

Then she is unprepared for married life. $250 accidents happen all the time in life. I hope they don't plan to have children because they will enter poverty with those expenses...
　
Jacksonvillenp, you can still use your camera and take other photos for the day confident in the knowledge that you have backup.

[jdhart73]

http://bbs.backstage.com/evefiles/attachments/3/4/9/349106591/349106591_troll_b_gone.gif?ts=4B6B8E43&key=04B19011C3A36A4DD677F5EAC83368DB&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fbbs.backstage.com%2Feve%2Ffo rums%2Fa%2Fga%2Ful%2F449106591%2Finlineimg%2FY%2Ft roll_b_gone.gif

[djvkool]

OK now, regardless of what people think about you and your writing skills mate, your images are awesome, I love looking at those one, specially the mum and 2 boys by the river, superbly flashed...

[tim]

This image isn't directed at anyone, the image above just reminded me of it...

[elysium]

"But they were happy with me" I was happy too when someone gave me a good deal on my first car. Till I found out later it was a piece of junk! Your happy customers are only so for a short time... till they come across images from a real wedding photographer.
That is YOUR/COUPLES fault. If someone does their research, asks others sets up a SUITABLE budget and the head hunts someone who has been in the business then you are more likely to be happy in the long run.

If you pay for something then later find out its not what you want or what you expected, no one is to blame but you.

Both you and them are going to feel different in a few short years. You have robbed them forever of having good pictures for that day. Congratulations on stealing the moment for both a paid photographer who feeds his family, and the Bride never getting to see how pretty her wedding really was.
Once again, your own fault for recruiting services from someone without going through everything you wanting or setting your expectations beyond what can be seen/delivered.

I will be redoing wedding pictures for a newbie who charged $1,200 dollars to a sweet couple. He showed up with two Canon Rebel XTs. One had the kit lens and 580EX flash mounted, the other had some super zoom (18-250 sigma I think).
You think? Were you actually there?

Now do you know he was a newbie? Because he has a Rebel XT? Or the fact his photos were terrible? Personally, I do not think you have any right what so ever moaning about what he charge. The fast is, the couple paid him and he did what he was paid to do.

If they didn't like his prices, they could have gone elsewhere.

----
The minister of the church comes up to me and starts talking about where I should stand and giving me general advise on how to conduct myself. I am thinking to myself "do I look that retarded?"
If I was the minister and heard your train of through, you do look retarded. Ministers will know better than you at where would be the best vantage points etc because they actually spend time there. You do not.

I am listening respectfully and then he starts to talk about flash... I interrupted him at that point and tell him that the couple likes the look I will use with flash and he is okay with flash right? He says yes and then I interrupt him again and tell him that he won't even see my flashes fire. I am very discreet with them and no I will not get up on the platform and shoot in your face. The last photographer that came through his church must have been a real newbie...
How long have you actually been in business?

----

Now here is an example of a newbie making me look bad before I even get a chance to prove myself to new people. I will accept the opinion of others that they are not taking business from me... but one thing they are doing is making it very embarrassing to say that you photograph weddings and I am making the point that this is worse than it has even been now that everything is digital.
This has got nothing to do with you so I don't understand how you are going to look bad. If you feel you are "saving" the photos then surely you should be making you look good?

If your really serious about HELPING Brides have great pictures of THEIR day (not your day), if you truly want THEM to be happy 20 years from now, and your not just interested in feeding your ego and making a quick $500 then please have at least (to get you started) $10,000 ready to spend and go into the business. Then ask us what you need to buy okay?
It was THEIR decision, and it was THEM who found the photographer. Get over it and figure out a new direction in life.


Im all well and happy to gripe about things but you are doing it the wrong way and personally if this is what you aim to do in the future, I suggest you get on with what you are paid to do and stop complaining about other people trying to make it in this world.

You may come back and say that this "newbie" should have shot as a second wedding photographer before going at it alone but what if he already has? Do you blame the packaging of food when someone eats it and doesn't like it? Do you come into the rescue then?

There are THOUSANDS of photographers who we all feel that are not suited for that job and you would have been better but the fact of the matter is, you are not Superman and you have no right in slating off other photographers for work they have been paid to do.

[souporman]

Your images have also helped us place you on the beginner/expert curve, so thanks for that.

I know it's an old thread, but come on, I can't be the only one who thought that was funny! :D

[Roy Mathers]

Your post is too long and rambling, I have no idea what you're on about.

I was just about to write the exact same thing Tim just wrote. I tried your summary and felt even more lost...

I've just caught up with this thread and I agree totally with the above. I also think the OP is suffering from a mixture of arrogance and inferiority complex.

[michelgauthierdesign]

I will be redoing wedding pictures for a newbie who charged $1,200 dollars to a sweet couple. He showed up with two Canon Rebel XTs. One had the kit lens and 580EX flash mounted, the other had some super zoom (18-250 sigma I think).


If your really serious about HELPING Brides have great pictures of THEIR day (not your day), if you truly want THEM to be happy 20 years from now, and your not just interested in feeding your ego and making a quick $500 then please have at least (to get you started) $10,000 ready to spend and go into the business. Then ask us what you need to buy okay?

Great, how can I help?

From what I am getting from your post, the most important thing in wedding photography is gear... you judged a ''newbie'' because he had little equipment and only charged 1200$, then said his picture where horrible. Let me tell you something:

a) I am still a newbie (20 weddings done),
b) I don't have 10 000 equipment (7D, 40D, 17-55 IS and 50 mm),
c) I don't charge 2000$+ like you
d) I don't want to be like you.

In all of your post, you seems to forget 2 very important aspects of wedding photography: the creativity and the personnality.

In terms of creativity, it is pretty obvious that this is not your cup of tea. Even your name remind me of the accounting guy in the mac ad.

For the personnality (charisma), it really shows in most of your picture. the subject never has a real smille, I would even bet that you say ''1-2-3-cheese'' before taking a picture. You need to connect with your client, figure out what their level of ''stupidity tolerance'' is and go as close as possible to that level (try to mention you can now find anything on Craiglist...you even saw a used prelubricated dildo colection sold by a guy name roger...)

[SuzyView]

This thread started a many months ago and is now overkill. We can argue until all us pros and newbies disagree completely. We all started somewhere, and many of us have been in the forum for years so we've seen a lot of new wedding photographers come and go. Rant is over, and implied insults ended.