Am I Crazy?

[JustinTEleven]

Hi everyone,

I've been wanting to do studio stuff for quite a while now.. Am I crazy that I just ordered this:

http://www.adorama.com/EL103252.html

? I also ordered numerous modifiers.

[Hermes]

It's a quality kit but it also has a LOT of power. So much power in fact that you may struggle to get usable apertures out of it.

Are you by any chance shooting ISO 25 slides or needing to light massive objects like cars from a distance?

[JustinTEleven]

What I really want is something that I can use for a very long time and light whatever I need to.

[Hermes]

What do you need to light? products, people, buildings?

[Photon Phil]

First off, congratulations. You must be single and not a teacher. That's alot of power.

[JustinTEleven]

First off, congratulations. You must be single and not a teacher. That's alot of power.

Yes I am single and addicted to spending tons of money on camera equip. o_O I am trying to light everything from people to buildings.

[korrektor]

In short - yes - you are. Explanation is below. Red marks mean optional reading

Please excuse me for all the harshness - I hope you can take it. If not - find out where I live and start a fight lol

I have seen your posts. Prepare to be REALLY intimidated by the kit you got. I'll share my personal story with you and you will draw conclusions out later.

I haven't started photography a long time ago, I have been doing it in fact for less than a year and a half. Started with a Rebel with a kit lens which was my first ever camera. Soon I realized that I just can't take photos with this amazing quality like those BIG guys. Started to get really crazy about the gear. First it was a 5D. then a bunch of L lenses. Oh buy, did my crappy shots look sharp and colorful!
Before I go on:
I must admit, that I have fine arts backgound that developed into a job as a concept art for video games (quit it since it was underpaid like all of them in this area) Learnign composition didn't take long. My learning curve in photography was a vertical line.

Then I realized - of course - it is all about the light! Just like you I don't settle for the old, not top quality stuff. In Russia people say - if you decide to steal - steal a million. If you decede to screw - then screw a blue blooded queen. I got a Speedotron kit with 4 lights and 3200WS of power. As my first flash kit. Crazy huh? I took some shots with it. They TOTALLY sucked. I got frustrated. I didn't want it any more. I just coun't get it - I have all the gear - why do I suck so bad then? And then I decided to bite the bullet and sell all the equipment I had. Leave just the bare essentials. I left my 5D and two lenses + 2 580EX II. Paid my rent 2 years in advance ;) anyway...

When stripped of all my gear I started to use it all all the time. I had to creatively think everytime without hoping that a 5D mark II or an 85 1.2 will save my every shot with this crazy bokeh and awesome 21 megapixel capabilities. I'll be honest and please excuse me - Having lots of gear without knowing how to use it is stupid. It is a shopping obsession of a toy addict or a shoes maniac.


I just went on this photography group meetup for the first time ever. Man... all people are over 45, doctors, lawers, single, rich, sporting L lenses. Majority have been shooting for longer than I am alive. 99% of them are absolutely terrible. Just an observation. Not trying to realate this to your case - I haven met you.

As of now I have one 5d and 70-200 2.8 IS, 17-40 and a 50 1.4. and an Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed. To some this is lots of gear and it is expensive for some. To me - this is a minimum of what I really use all the time.

Anyway... I hope you get the point.

here's my advice finally and I hope it helps you down the road.

If you have money do this:

1.Get rid of your Mark III. You already have a 5D II which is better in IQ. get a g11 instead - you will take more photos and get better while packing it light.

2. Get ONE good light and ONE good light mod. I recommend to go for something that will really last you a long time. I mean forever and ever. Get profoto or Broncolor. Or just get Broncolor. It will never brake. It is expensive as HELL. But you WILL use it and then you will add another light. DOn't get a 1200Ws light. You will never need it in a studio. Unless you hit it big and your studio will be up for shooting airplanes. You don't need f 20 in a studio. EVER.
Like Elinchrom? - I do too. Get Elinchrom... Gosh.. get an Alienbee and practice and then give it away at a garage sale. Just don't be another one who makes this huge mistake and decides that gear makes them a better shooter. It doesn't. 70% of gear exists ONLY because it is a marketing trick to lure you in.

Again, please don't take this close to heart. But... if I were you I would cancel the order asap.

[FlyingPhotog]

For the average user, I'd say you went a hair overboard. Especially power wise.

I have 2 x 600RX and a 400BX which I use in an "average" spare bedroom and I sometimes have to shoot by modeling light only if I need very shallow DOF.

Otherwise I'm often at f/8 or f/11 which I find is terrific for product shots.

[F4 Cyborg]

Get rid of your Mark III. You already have a 5D II which is better in IQ (WRONG)

[ClickHappy]

I bought a D-Lite 2000ws kit and I'm finding that I have too much power for my small studio space. All my shots are at f9 - f20. I will keep the kit, as it works great outdoors or in larger areas, but if you don't have a large studio, you simply won't be able to do some things because you will have too much light.

I'm getting ready to pick up some Bees and a power pack to go mobile anyway, so I probably won't be using these as much in the future.

Good luck with the system. I'm sure it will come in handy at some point.

[korrektor]

"(WRONG)" or ERROR ERROR BEEP BEEP 00011010101001
honestly - don't give a damn. You missed the point. You are just a machine... ;)

[OneStrobe]

That's way crazy. I just started a small studio in my garage and even my hot shoe flashes turn out to be too much light at times.

[JustinTEleven]

In short - yes - you are. Explanation is below. Red marks mean optional reading

Please excuse me for all the harshness - I hope you can take it. If not - find out where I live and start a fight lol

I have seen your posts. Prepare to be REALLY intimidated by the kit you got. I'll share my personal story with you and you will draw conclusions out later.

I haven't started photography a long time ago, I have been doing it in fact for less than a year and a half. Started with a Rebel with a kit lens which was my first ever camera. Soon I realized that I just can't take photos with this amazing quality like those BIG guys. Started to get really crazy about the gear. First it was a 5D. then a bunch of L lenses. Oh buy, did my crappy shots look sharp and colorful!
Before I go on:
I must admit, that I have fine arts backgound that developed into a job as a concept art for video games (quit it since it was underpaid like all of them in this area) Learnign composition didn't take long. My learning curve in photography was a vertical line.

Then I realized - of course - it is all about the light! Just like you I don't settle for the old, not top quality stuff. In Russia people say - if you decide to steal - steal a million. If you decede to screw - then screw a blue blooded queen. I got a Speedotron kit with 4 lights and 3200WS of power. As my first flash kit. Crazy huh? I took some shots with it. They TOTALLY sucked. I got frustrated. I didn't want it any more. I just coun't get it - I have all the gear - why do I suck so bad then? And then I decided to bite the bullet and sell all the equipment I had. Leave just the bare essentials. I left my 5D and two lenses + 2 580EX II. Paid my rent 2 years in advance ;) anyway...

When stripped of all my gear I started to use it all all the time. I had to creatively think everytime without hoping that a 5D mark II or an 85 1.2 will save my every shot with this crazy bokeh and awesome 21 megapixel capabilities. I'll be honest and please excuse me - Having lots of gear without knowing how to use it is stupid. It is a shopping obsession of a toy addict or a shoes maniac.


I just went on this photography group meetup for the first time ever. Man... all people are over 45, doctors, lawers, single, rich, sporting L lenses. Majority have been shooting for longer than I am alive. 99% of them are absolutely terrible. Just an observation. Not trying to realate this to your case - I haven met you.

As of now I have one 5d and 70-200 2.8 IS, 17-40 and a 50 1.4. and an Elinchrom Ranger RX Speed. To some this is lots of gear and it is expensive for some. To me - this is a minimum of what I really use all the time.

Anyway... I hope you get the point.

here's my advice finally and I hope it helps you down the road.

If you have money do this:

1.Get rid of your Mark III. You already have a 5D II which is better in IQ. get a g11 instead - you will take more photos and get better while packing it light.

2. Get ONE good light and ONE good light mod. I recommend to go for something that will really last you a long time. I mean forever and ever. Get profoto or Broncolor. Or just get Broncolor. It will never brake. It is expensive as HELL. But you WILL use it and then you will add another light. DOn't get a 1200Ws light. You will never need it in a studio. Unless you hit it big and your studio will be up for shooting airplanes. You don't need f 20 in a studio. EVER.
Like Elinchrom? - I do too. Get Elinchrom... Gosh.. get an Alienbee and practice and then give it away at a garage sale. Just don't be another one who makes this huge mistake and decides that gear makes them a better shooter. It doesn't. 70% of gear exists ONLY because it is a marketing trick to lure you in.

Again, please don't take this close to heart. But... if I were you I would cancel the order asap.


I really enjoyed reading this..... I will take your suggestions and run with them however i think that you are crazy when you suggest that the 5d2 produces better images than the 1ds3. In fact, I will prove it if you give me a few hours....

[JustinTEleven]

Also, the 17-40 is a fine lens. I have the 16-35L and cannot visually tell a difference between the two.

[fivegallon]

Also, the 17-40 is a fine lens. I have the 16-35L and cannot visually tell a difference between the two.

And i reckon you still have one of the better lenses Canon make... the ef-s 10-22 , that is an absolute cracker!

[JustinTEleven]

And i reckon you still have one of the better lenses Canon make... the ef-s 10-22 , that is an absolute cracker!

For a crop the 10-22 ef-s is pretty much exactly the same lens as the 16-35L. No BS included. The only difference is the aperture which doesn't matter at these focal lengths...IMHO

[fivegallon]

For a crop the 10-22 ef-s is pretty much exactly the same lens as the 16-35L. No BS included. The only difference is the aperture which doesn't matter at these focal lengths...IMHO

the only reason i dont still have my 10-22 is because i lent it to my boss and he refused to give it back... :(

[JustinTEleven]

the only reason i dont still have my 10-22 is because i lent it to my boss and he refused to give it back... :(

You should demand a raise regardless of what you're currently making.

[JustinTEleven]

I really need to update my gear list...

[Psychobiker]

I think this is bragging in disguise, guys.

[JustinTEleven]

I think this is bragging in disguise, guys.

Sorry.

[Psychobiker]

Sorry.

Forgive my skepticism, I can't shoot a barn door.
I have just seen far too many 'more money than sense' threads and my hackles went up here. $4k is an awful wedge, and if you needed that specific type of lighting, why do you need to ask us if you're crazy? All the information about lights, power etc is found easily by searching.

[JustinTEleven]

Forgive my skepticism, I can't shoot a barn door.
I have just seen far too many 'more money than sense' threads and my hackles went up here. $4k is an awful wedge, and if you needed that specific type of lighting, why do you need to ask us if you're crazy? All the information about lights, power etc is found easily by searching.

Has nothing to do with that.... I am relatively new to the photography game and am very much an impulsive buyer. I don't know much about lights and/or these lights specifically so I posted to get opinions. It seems that I may have made the wrong decision though.

[Psychobiker]

very much an impulsive buyer

I was too. Then $3000+ of my clothes went missing en-route from Johannesburg to London. Last time I frivolously blew money.

But you could've saved an awful amount of money (ie. enough for an 85L II) and got just as good a setup (OK, not enough to light the Eiffel tower) by reading around first.

If you want to impulsively buy me a DB7 GTV12, be my guest.

[JustinTEleven]

I will admit that I'm currently in acquire mode.... hopefully some day my photography skill will catch up to my gear.

[JustinTEleven]

I was too. Then $3000+ of my clothes went missing en-route from Johannesburg to London. Last time I frivolously blew money.

But you could've saved an awful amount of money (ie. enough for an 85L II) and got just as good a setup (OK, not enough to light the Eiffel tower) by reading around first.

If you want to impulsively buy me a DB7 GTV12, be my guest.

I have an 85L... Sorry to hear about your clothes.

[Psychobiker]

I have an 85L... Sorry to hear about your clothes.

Don't start being smart, please. I was attempting to highlight the dangers of being frivolous. As you wish, however. Count me out of that mindset, but congratulations on thinking you can buy knowledge.

[JustinTEleven]

Don't start being smart, please. I was attempting to highlight the dangers of being frivolous. As you wish, however. Count me out of that mindset, but congratulations on thinking you can buy knowledge.

I never said I knew anything about photography and I always admitted that I was relatively new to it. I can buy whatever gear I want but I KNOW that gear alone won't make ME a better photographer. Everything I have or may acquire are mearly tools to potentially taking better photographs in the future. I'm sorry if I have offended you. I didn't intend to.

[Psychobiker]

Hey, no offence taken! Just cautioning against frivolour buying that can lead to disappointment in some cases and worse (monetary loss!). I hope you'll grow into it and turn out some stellar stuff.

[JustinTEleven]

Hey, no offence taken! Just cautioning against frivolour buying that can lead to disappointment in some cases and worse (monetary loss!). I hope you'll grow into it and turn out some stellar stuff.

Thank you... The last thing I would ever want to do is make someone angry, especially over something so pointless. I hope to turn some stellar photos as well, otherwise I think I'd be wasting my time. Thank you again for your opinion/discretion against spending money like a fool. I admit that I do it and sometimes regret it. Knowledge + Experience = Power. I am lacking the knowledge part along with the experience.

[JustinTEleven]

PS - That AM can't be your dream car... It's soooo 2000ish ;-)

[Psychobiker]

Thank you... The last thing I would ever want to do is make someone angry, especially over something so pointless. I hope to turn some stellar photos as well, otherwise I think I'd be wasting my time. Thank you again for your opinion/discretion against spending money like a fool. I admit that I do it and sometimes regret it. Knowledge + Experience = Power. I am lacking the knowledge part along with the experience.

I, to this day, lack both (knowledge and experience) but one thing I did in the past was buy frivolously. It's a kneejerk now to advise people against it as in 95% it leaves you feeling hollow and wondering why you bothered in the first place. I remember sitting in someone's 10,000sqft house who was still looking for their soul.

My .02c (well, in € it's about .012c!) and I wish you the best of luck mate.

[Psychobiker]

PS - That AM can't be your dream car... It's soooo 2000ish ;-)

Indeed it's not, but %^£$%, have you heard it wind up on full chat?!
It sounds like a wolf being dragged backwards through a sawmill.

A Veyron is the only other thing that surpasses it (four turbos!), but that's unaffordable on a whole other level.

I care about what it sounds like, not how fast it goes.

[JustinTEleven]

I, to this day, lack both (knowledge and experience) but one thing I did in the past was buy frivolously. It's a kneejerk now to advise people against it as in 95% it leaves you feeling hollow and wondering why you bothered in the first place. I remember sitting in someone's 10,000sqft house who was still looking for their soul.

My .02c (well, in € it's about .012c!) and I wish you the best of luck mate.

You nailed it right here my friend. At the end of the day the cheese doesn't make things any better. It's always nice to buy new things but the new things don't always make things nice. I will think twice in the future about posting such a frivolous question.

[JustinTEleven]

Indeed it's not, but %^£$%, have you heard it wind up on full chat?!
It sounds like a wolf being dragged backwards through a sawmill.

A Veyron is the only other thing that surpasses it (four turbos!), but that's unaffordable on a whole other level.

Have you heard a new Z06? I'm not even a Chevy fanboy but that car is out of this solar system.

[F4 Cyborg]

The Veyron will run approx 53 miles on a tank of petro at 230ish miles per hour. You will need new tires after 4 tanks of gas at that pace. If you find many roads to run it on you most likely will not find 53 miles of it to allow a full burn. The Z06 will top end out run the zr but from dead start the zr will leave is in the dust. I went the slow route this year. Jeep Rubicon Ul. Gets me there slower so I can look out the window and see the things I use to fly by.
OP your new lights though vast to start with, will be there for you when you learn how to use them. Until you learn how to use them, you will never have to ask your self, was it the lights? Treat them well and they will serve you well for many years to come.
You are correct the 1DsIII has better dynamic range than the 5DII. Both are great units.
A few good books on exposure and lighting and you will be off the a great start.
Me I use Dyna and Bee's. The Bee's cause someone told me they would never work. They work fine. Only crazy your guilty of is, second guessing your light purchase. Learn into them and leave the rest in the dust.

[snyderman]

I'm also one who bought a 'modest' Elinchrom small studio 2 light kit. Indoors, it's capable of nuclear powered flash and light. Only shot portraits with it a couple of times so far due to time constraints, but the 2 400w strobes have been used at very low power levels so far. Provided MORE than enough lighting so far.

dave

[Paul Li]

Gratz! Now go out there and kill the sun...

[chadgeek]

.. Am I crazy...


So the answer to the question is?

Just kidding. I too have been known to spend in the past, but luckily have made back all the money spent, with paying jobs. Hope you were able to cancel the order and invest in something that fits your level but still leaves room to grow. Aloha.

[korrektor]

One more time -
you just bought two lights at two grand each and you will not be able to use them indoors much because each of them at their LOWEST setting is almost as powerful as a 580EX II in max settings.

[george m w]

One more time -
you just bought two lights at two grand each and you will not be able to ......

korrektor.....I think you are missing the point ! ;) I have read all the posts in thread, and I admit it's been fun....even the parts about some fancy-dan cars that seem to have little to relate to in this discussion. However, back to my point: it sounds like the OP has money to burn on "stuff". Personally, I love it when folks like him buy this kind of gear, because very often, I have been on the recieving end of some very good deals in the used marketplace a few years down the road.....when they lose interest, or just plain decide they really didn't need it after all. So there you have it justin.....buy ! buy ! buy ! ....and ring us back when this fine gear is up for sale ! :D
Edit: not trying to be a smart-a$$ here....but see my perpetual sig line....thanks to DPark !

[korrektor]

fair enough! :)

[Psychobiker]

korrektor.....I think you are missing the point ! ;) I have read all the posts in thread, and I admit it's been fun....even the parts about some fancy-dan cars that seem to have little to relate to in this discussion. However, back to my point: it sounds like the OP has money to burn on "stuff". Personally, I love it when folks like him buy this kind of gear, because very often, I have been on the recieving end of some very good deals in the used marketplace a few years down the road.....when they lose interest, or just plain decide they really didn't need it after all. So there you have it justin.....buy ! buy ! buy ! ....and ring us back when this fine gear is up for sale ! :D
Edit: not trying to be a smart-a$$ here....but see my perpetual sig line....thanks to DPark !

Your sig is precisely what I was trying to tell the OP. If your abilities actually befitted such gear, you'd be buying it out of necessity. The likelihood, as some have said, is that it'll have such clout that it'll be unuseable in small places

[Rudi]

I haven't read through this whole thread (life is just too damn short ;)), but to give the OP some credit - he DID ask whether he was crazy! I assume he was really asking whether he made the right choice... And he seems to have taken the (correct) advice that the kit listed was overkill. He asked the right questions at the right time (earlier would have been even better, but so what?), and is smart enough to take the advice given to him. That places him ahead of most people on photographic forums. ;)