Which Gitzo legs?

[mike_d]

I've been trying to decide on a set of tripod legs for too long and need some help. I already own a RSS BH-40 ballhead which I'm using with a borrowed set of 4 section legs that weigh 3.9lb. I have a 5D and the heaviest lens I own (or expect to own without winning the lottery) is a 100-400 (about 3lb) although I'll likely add an RSS pano clamp and nodal slide at some point but I'm sure those don't weigh more than a few ounces combined.

The contenders are the GT1531/41 and the GT2531/41. I prefer Gitzo's twist locks over flip locks and would rather have three less locks to deal with so I'm leaning toward 3 section legs. Of course the 3 section legs don't fold up as compactly. How much trouble does the longer folded length cause if you're not flying with it? I read a short review from a guy who hiked the Sierras with a 2531 and didn't have a problem with the folded length so maybe isn't not that long after all.

Do you think the 2 series legs is overkill or do the beefier legs add an extra margin of stability even with my setup. Really Right Stuff's web site puts my gear in the "lightweight" category and suggests the 1 series legs with a BH-40 or 2 series legs with either the BH-40 or BH-55. So I could go either way I wonder if I'm at the higher end of the 1 series' range.

[ed rader]

I've been trying to decide on a set of tripod legs for too long and need some help. I already own a RSS BH-40 ballhead which I'm using with a borrowed set of 4 section legs that weigh 3.9lb. I have a 5D and the heaviest lens I own (or expect to own without winning the lottery) is a 100-400 (about 3lb) although I'll likely add an RSS pano clamp and nodal slide at some point but I'm sure those don't weigh more than a few ounces combined.

The contenders are the GT1531/41 and the GT2531/41. I prefer Gitzo's twist locks over flip locks and would rather have three less locks to deal with so I'm leaning toward 3 section legs. Of course the 3 section legs don't fold up as compactly. How much trouble does the longer folded length cause if you're not flying with it? I read a short review from a guy who hiked the Sierras with a 2531 and didn't have a problem with the folded length so maybe isn't not that long after all.

Do you think the 2 series legs is overkill or do the beefier legs add an extra margin of stability even with my setup. Really Right Stuff's web site puts my gear in the "lightweight" category and suggests the 1 series legs with a BH-40 or 2 series legs with either the BH-40 or BH-55. So I could go either way I wonder if I'm at the higher end of the 1 series' range.

yep those are the choices. i chose the GT 1541 and removed the center column. without column the tripod is eye level once i attach 1d body. i actually wouldn't mind it being an inch or two lower but it's "perfect" as is :D.

with markins Q3 and RRS flip lever QR my rig weighs 3.25 lbs. i also own the 100-400L but i never use that lens with a tripod.

the heaviest lens my tripod sees is the 24-70L and the longest is the 70-200L f4 IS.

i chose 4-section because i will also use this tripod for travel. the 3-section is too long to fit in my checked bag.

the safest choice for an all-around tripod would be the 2541 if the extra 1/2 pound plus the difference of whatever a heavier ballhead weighs aren't issues for you.

ed rader

[G Fountain]

I have the GT2541 and love it. On top sits a Markins M10 with their tripod base which eliminates the center column. I'm 6' and the view finder is about 3" to 4" below eye level. Not a problem at all for me. Hope this helps.

[tvphotog]

Read this. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=538298&highlight=1541t)

[mike_d]

Read this. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=538298&highlight=1541t)

I might add a traveler to my collection some day if the need presents itself, but for now I'm looking for something taller.

[JohnJ80]

I've been trying to decide on a set of tripod legs for too long and need some help. I already own a RSS BH-40 ballhead which I'm using with a borrowed set of 4 section legs that weigh 3.9lb. I have a 5D and the heaviest lens I own (or expect to own without winning the lottery) is a 100-400 (about 3lb) although I'll likely add an RSS pano clamp and nodal slide at some point but I'm sure those don't weigh more than a few ounces combined.

The contenders are the GT1531/41 and the GT2531/41. I prefer Gitzo's twist locks over flip locks and would rather have three less locks to deal with so I'm leaning toward 3 section legs. Of course the 3 section legs don't fold up as compactly. How much trouble does the longer folded length cause if you're not flying with it? I read a short review from a guy who hiked the Sierras with a 2531 and didn't have a problem with the folded length so maybe isn't not that long after all.

Do you think the 2 series legs is overkill or do the beefier legs add an extra margin of stability even with my setup. Really Right Stuff's web site puts my gear in the "lightweight" category and suggests the 1 series legs with a BH-40 or 2 series legs with either the BH-40 or BH-55. So I could go either way I wonder if I'm at the higher end of the 1 series' range.

Depends on what you want to do. The weight of camera etc.. is not an issue and load ratings are just about a worthless spec.

Gitzo rates their legs by focal length and that makes a lot more sense.

If you are going to be using that 100-400 at the long end, then the right choice is the Series 3 - 3541LS. it is rated or that focal length. The Series 2 can go to 300mm in a pinch but is happier at 200mm. The Series 1 can go to 200mm but is happier at 135mm. You can finesse those a bit if you don't fully extend the legs (shoot kneeling etc...). The Series 3 will truly dampen 2X the vibration amplitude that the Series 2 can - as suggested by the focal length spec.

There is no measurable difference that I can ascertain between 3 and 4 section legs. The new Gitzo G-locs basically have no play. IMO, they are leg locks without peer in the tripod world. For that reason, I only buy 4 section legs because of the collapsed length. The extra several inches make them a pain in cars/vehicles, when strapped on a backpack, they snag foliage more, they are harder to transport in an airplane, etc..

Best set up is two tripod - a Series 1 teamed with a Series 3. Your BH40 will not work well (smallish) on a Series 3 but is nice on Series 2 or the Series 1. Of the two, I'd favor the 1541 with the BH40 over the 2541 just because I'd be looking to add the Series 3. If you are 6' or taller, you will have to crouch a bit to use the 2541. The 1541 is 2" higher when set up too. In all cases, I'd ditch the movable column.

For a Series 3 combination for that 400mm length, then a 3541LS with a Markins M20 is hard to beat and that is an amazing combination.

[chinoamigo]

if youre gonna go 400mm often go 3 series. if not, 2 series should be enough..

[mike_d]

I probably won't be going all the way to 400mm all that often on the tripod. The lens is collared for better centering of the load on the ballhead if that matters.

[mike_d]

The Series 3 will truly dampen 2X the vibration amplitude that the Series 2 can - as suggested by the focal length spec.


What is the source of the vibration that it's better at dampening as long as I'm using a cable release and mirror lockup?

[JohnJ80]

The whole reason for using a tripod is to damp external vibration as well as the vibration from the shutter actuation etc... For example, a light breeze will generate considerable vibration (rotational). This is a game of microns. Either way, in the testing that I did, my 3541LS will damp twice the amplitude of vibration that my 1258 will (same as 2540 before renumbering).

See:
http://markins.com/charlie/report4e6.pdf

J.

[czeglin]

What is the source of the vibration that it's better at dampening as long as I'm using a cable release and mirror lockup?
Wind and running water. The bigger the tripod, the more of either of those you can take. I went with GT1541T / Q3T / B2 LR II. Fits in a carryon bag. Great for backpacking. I rarely encounter strong enough wind that I'm concerned and if I really wanted to I could hang my pack from the center hook for more stability.

[JohnJ80]

The testing that I've done shows that hanging a mass from a Gitzo tripod has little impact. The CF does a great job at soaking up the vibration. The mass is more likely to be a source of problems if there is any oscillation (hanging) or from the cord it is hung from vibrating at all.

j.

[jhom]

J....I can't remember but does the 1258 have g-locks?

[mike_d]

What's the difference between the GT3541 and the GT3541LS? I know the 3541 comes with a center column (with can be removed) and the 3541LS comes without a center column (which can be added). So is there a difference if one can be configured like the other, besides the LS being taller? If you remove the center column from the 3541, does the big "wing nut"-like component (that screws to clamp the column) stay or go?

[foxbat]

What's the difference between the GT3541 and the GT3541LS? I know the 3541 comes with a center column (with can be removed) and the 3541LS comes without a center column (which can be added). So is there a difference if one can be configured like the other, besides the LS being taller? If you remove the center column from the 3541, does the big "wing nut"-like component (that screws to clamp the column) stay or go?
Of those two the Systematic is far more flexible. By default it comes with a flat plate that is perfect for the stability of long lenses but you can remove the plate and add in any of the Systematic accessories (search Gitzo leg accessories at B&H for stuff like center columns, geared columns etc.)

[JohnJ80]

J....I can't remember but does the 1258 have g-locks?

No. But it is pretty much equivalent to a 2540 in most specs.

J.

[jhom]

No. But it is pretty much equivalent to a 2540 in most specs.

J.

Do you think the g-locks on the current 2 series add additional to the stability over the 1258? The reason I ask is because I find the current 2 series to be quite stable. When I compare it to my 3541, it feels quite stable. I haven't tested it though.

[Sauchterlonie]

I have the GT2931 which is the Basalt version of the GT2531 and I have to say its the best thing I have ever bought. I shoot mainly with a gripped 40D with a Canon 24-70, but have also used it with no problems with a Canon 100-400 + 1.4 converter whilst shooting birds near the edge of the cliffs and didn't have a problem.

Having said that, if you can push towards the extra money the bigger will always be better!! :-P

Simon

[JohnJ80]

Do you think the g-locks on the current 2 series add additional to the stability over the 1258? The reason I ask is because I find the current 2 series to be quite stable. When I compare it to my 3541, it feels quite stable. I haven't tested it though.

I do. Especially in applications where there is side loads on the legs (rotational). I also think they are probably more durable too. What I think it does is take away the 3 vs 4 segment argument because the legs become essentially a single rigid piece. The G-loc might actually be stronger than the leg.

That said, the vibration damping is probably mostly related to the diameter of the tubing and the composition of the layup. For a given layup, the vibration damping then matters on tubing diameter. Gitzo is supposed to have much more CF than epoxy in their lay up than others and then pultrudes it instead of wrapping sheets of it into a tube. Those two things are supposed to help a bunch.

In the relatively crude testing I did, with the approximately same vibration stimulus, the 1258 was able to damp approximately 1/2 the amplitude of vibration that the 3541LS was for rotational vibration. I think that the difference was probably between old and new G-locs is probably not observable in my testing (similar to Leica's methodology).

The up through the legs vibration (vertical) is, in my view, for all but an earthquake, pretty much a wash - hence the reason that I think Gitzo no longer supplies hooks on some of their larger tripods because you don't need a hanging mass. In other words and for all intents and most purposes, with these two tripods, you don't need to worry about up through the legs vibration at all.

The problem in all of this is that you can't "feel" the differences. By the time it gets to that level of vibration, it is many orders of magnitude more than it takes to destroy an image.

J.

[jhom]

I do. Especially in applications where there is side loads on the legs (rotational). I also think they are probably more durable too. What I think it does is take away the 3 vs 4 segment argument because the legs become essentially a single rigid piece. The G-loc might actually be stronger than the leg.

That said, the vibration damping is probably mostly related to the diameter of the tubing and the composition of the layup. For a given layup, the vibration damping then matters on tubing diameter. Gitzo is supposed to have much more CF than epoxy in their lay up than others and then pultrudes it instead of wrapping sheets of it into a tube. Those two things are supposed to help a bunch.

In the relatively crude testing I did, with the approximately same vibration stimulus, the 1258 was able to damp approximately 1/2 the amplitude of vibration that the 3541LS was for rotational vibration. I think that the difference was probably between old and new G-locs is probably not observable in my testing (similar to Leica's methodology).

The up through the legs vibration (vertical) is, in my view, for all but an earthquake, pretty much a wash - hence the reason that I think Gitzo no longer supplies hooks on some of their larger tripods because you don't need a hanging mass. In other words and for all intents and most purposes, with these two tripods, you don't need to worry about up through the legs vibration at all.

The problem in all of this is that you can't "feel" the differences. By the time it gets to that level of vibration, it is many orders of magnitude more than it takes to destroy an image.

J.

Then following your reasoning about tube size, shouldn't a 3 section provide more vibration damping than a 4 section Gitzo of the same series? The tube diameter progressively shrinks with the additional 4th section.

[JohnJ80]

At some point that is probably true and also true for those with less good leg locks and less good CF layups.

I would think that at some level on the Gitzo's this is true but I don't think it is measurable or noticeable in an image. In other words, they have beaten the issue down to the point where it is controlled. In the testing I did, I think that the 3 vs 4 leg thing is a very small impact and probably below the resolution of the lens/camera combination.

I'm not a mechanical engineer (I'm an EE) but I think it has something to do with the max tube diameter too (maybe someone could chime in here). That diameter is the same on all tripods in a series, IIRC.

Now, if you had crappy leg locks - or at leasts older designs etc.. or a CF that had more epoxy than CF, then this all changes again because all things are not equal once again.

Now that I think once again about the 1258, I think that it may have the G-locs because the legs are ALR. That's why I bought it. I'm not sure though. At the very least, it does have improved leg locks that are better than the old style Gitzos but may not be all the way to G-loc.

I think there is substantial margin built into the Gitzo stuff. What got me thinking about this was a longish exposure with the 1258 mounted with a 5D/24-105 (IS off) standing 2' deep in a moving trout stream. Substantial wakes coming off of each leg. A very bad situation for vibration through the legs. I shot a 5 shot pano and it came out razor sharp. That would have to be attributed to the tripod which, I'm sure, was operating far from it's optimal range.

Again, all this underscores the disservice that tripod manufacturers (all of them) do their customers by not providing an industry standard means of testing and specifications that directly relate to tripod performance. We shouldn't have to be the people doing this, they ought to provide meaningful specs that we can rely on.

J.

[jhom]

I checked the Gitzo site. The 1258 doesn't have g-locks. I think if you ever retest a 2 and 3 series again, you should use tripods of the same generation. The g-lock difference may in part account for the size of the vibration difference you got in your results.

[JohnJ80]

I'd be happy to retest of the same generation but first someone needs to give me a very nice gift. ;) I just tested what I had because that's what I use. Either way, I'm not sure it would matter in actual practice except in extreme circumstances and my test methods probably do not have high enough resolution to reliably measure the difference (presuming the difference is small - I'd be surprised if it were large). A 2X difference in performance is substantial and easily measurable by me. A 10% difference or less would be tough.

I am going to sell my 1258 at some point later this year when I get some business travel concluded and then go to the 1541. I bought the 1258 Series 2 as a travel tripod and then when the new Gitzo's came out, and the 3541 was so light, I decided to go to a two tripod set up. Series 1 for travel and Series 3 for all else. I'm off to Asia this week and will be carrying the 1258+Q3 and I'm thinking how much nicer that would be if it were a 1541+Q3....

J.

[jhom]

I'd be happy to retest of the same generation but first someone needs to give me a very nice gift. ;) I just tested what I had because that's what I use. Either way, I'm not sure it would matter in actual practice except in extreme circumstances and my test methods probably do not have high enough resolution to reliably measure the difference (presuming the difference is small - I'd be surprised if it were large). A 2X difference in performance is substantial and easily measurable by me. A 10% difference or less would be tough.

I am going to sell my 1258 at some point later this year when I get some business travel concluded and then go to the 1541. I bought the 1258 Series 2 as a travel tripod and then when the new Gitzo's came out, and the 3541 was so light, I decided to go to a two tripod set up. Series 1 for travel and Series 3 for all else. I'm off to Asia this week and will be carrying the 1258+Q3 and I'm thinking how much nicer that would be if it were a 1541+Q3....

J.

...But think how much less stable the 1541 setup would be compared to the 2 series setup. It is all about compromise. Have a safe trip. :)

[JohnJ80]

...But think how much less stable the 1541 setup would be compared to the 2 series setup. It is all about compromise. Have a safe trip. :)

Oh, agreed. That's why I have the Series 3. That's like a rock when it comes to stability.

I would be primarily using this set up with a 24-105 or wide angle zoom. I would, on occasion, use it with a 70-200 but then I would probable do it from a kneeling position.

J.