My first month taking football photos

[Gary Wiant]

I just got my first SLR (a used Digital Rebel XT ) online less then 1 month ago. and borrowed a buddy's Cannon 70 - 200mm F2.8 lens to take photos of my son's first year of Varsity football, and now I'm getting hooked taking spots photos here is one I took this weekend and was told it looks dark
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/bubbarun.jpg
so I lighted it up a little bit please let m eknow what you think.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/bubbarunlightened.jpg
This young fellow rushed for 261 yards this last Friday. I usually take about 300 photos a game and i don't have time to edit all the dar shots so I'd like to learn to get these right the first time. I do not use a flash yet.

Can I get the propper exposure and stop the motion with out a flash?

and oh BTW my son has a deep bone bruise to his knee so I'm taking photos of everyone but him.

Thanks for the C&C

[DHMN]

I think cropping a bunch of #54 out and the black jersey on the far left as well would help this picture?

Flash seems pretty much a necessity after shooting my first football game on Friday and trying just a couple ISO 3200 shots that were deletes on site before putting the flash on. There might be ONE field within an hour of me that could be done without flash but I would probably use it there anyway.

[watt100]

I just got my first SLR (a used Digital Rebel XT ) online less then 1 month ago. and borrowed a buddy's Cannon 70 - 200mm F2.8 lens to take photos of my son's first year of Varsity football, and now I'm getting hooked taking spots photos here is one I took this weekend and was told it looks dark

so I lighted it up a little bit please let m eknow what you think.

This young fellow rushed for 261 yards this last Friday. I usually take about 300 photos a game and i don't have time to edit all the dar shots so I'd like to learn to get these right the first time. I do not use a flash yet.

Can I get the propper exposure and stop the motion with out a flash?

and oh BTW my son has a deep bone bruise to his knee so I'm taking photos of everyone but him.

Thanks for the C&C

what ISO were you using? I've seen plenty of good pics of night HS football games with the 70-200 2.8

[Gary Wiant]

Ok so I typed up this long post only to have it disappear on me.

I looked at the info in photoshop and from my limited knowledge I know the ISO is to low. The settings are

Shutter Priority
1/250
f2.8
ISO 200
There is also an aperture value 3.0 and metering mode-Pattern What is this?
The problem is that to me there seems to be enough light and when I look at the LCD the photos look fine, is there a way to adjust the LCD that it looks more acurate?

also the photos at the begining of the game look good

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/Keystone002.jpg

then as the lighting gets worse we end up with the original photo
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/bubbarun.jpg
at when it is starting to get even darker and I change the ISO to 800 I start to get yellowish photos like
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/Keystone149.jpg
What am I doing wrong? settings are all the same except for the ISO. What should hte white balance be set to? I was told shadow or cloudy.

Thanks for all the help

[BenJohnson]

Ok so I typed up this long post only to have it disappear on me.

I looked at the info in photoshop and from my limited knowledge I know the ISO is to low. The settings are

Shutter Priority
1/250
f2.8
ISO 200
There is also an aperture value 3.0 and metering mode-Pattern What is this?
The problem is that to me there seems to be enough light and when I look at the LCD the photos look fine, is there a way to adjust the LCD that it looks more acurate?

also the photos at the begining of the game look good
You have the shutter speed fixed to 1/250sec and the ISO fairly low at 200. Most likely the camera metered this and set the aperture wide open, but it was still not enough for proper exposure. There was nothing else the camera could do with your given settings. In the viewfinder the aperture setting should have been blinking to indicate that a correct exposure could not be achieved. When this happens you need to keep bumping up the ISO until it is possible. Any time near sunset and this will probably be ISO1600 and even then you may not be able to get 1/250sec once the sun goes down.

I might try starting with aperture priority (Av). Set the aperture wide open, f/2.8, and keep an eye on what shutter speeds are being chosen by the camera. Keep bumping up the ISO until the shutter speed is something usable. I am guessing you will be set at ISO1600 much sooner then you think, and once that occurs your shutter speeds will continue to drop as the light disappears. I would also try using auto white balance, and incorrect white balance setting caused the tint in your last picture. Also, the presets will not work well under mixed lighting (when the sun is going down and the field lights are on).

[Methodical]

Forgive me if posted, but are you shooting RAW or Jpeg. If raw, you have more lattitude to make adjustments.

I have yet to shoot a sports game but it's in my plan for the little league season and some of the Redskins games. At night I would use auto white balance. What I found, at least with my gear, is the the custom florescent WB does not render good white balance as compared to AWB , but I shoot RAW and can make changes but need to get it correct in camera because I plan to shoot RAW and Jpeg.

[Gary Wiant]

Thanks both of you for the insight. I have been shooting JPEG so far, I really don't know much about the RAW.

A little background about me I own a signshop and we do large format printing, so it is possible that some of these shots will be made into full size wall graphics "Fatheads" or at least 24"x36" prints, and I was told that 1600 will make the photos grainy when enlarged.

What stops the action? F-Stop or shutter speed? I thought shutter speed and that is why I set the camera for shutter priority. If I set the camera to aperture priority I was afraid the shutter speed would get to low and need to delete a good shot, I figured at least if it is a little dark I could make some adjustments and the shot would not be lost. I will try these recomendations tonight at the JV Game, this should be a challenge the lighting on the JV field isn't very good. should I start the game with ISO high or work my way up?

Thanks Again
Gary

[H20boy]

Do you have a flash Gary to try tonight? If so, mount it. (pop-up not a suitable substitute) At dusk, you can't use the 'cloudy' white balance. Go AWB, or do a quick custom WB under those difficult stadium lighting conditions.

[Gary Wiant]

I do not have a flash yet, I was told I need to get a Canon 580ex so it will refresh fast enough for multiple shots and I want to save $$ for a lens of my own, I'm leaning toward the Sigma 70-200 f2.8

I'll read about the custom white balance. Would I need to do the custom White balance several times through out the night?

should I mount the flash under the camera on the monopod and if so how? what parts do I need? or attach it to the camera hot shoe?

sounds like the JV game is cancelled so I'll be at the Soccer field instead :(

[BenJohnson]

Thanks both of you for the insight. I have been shooting JPEG so far, I really don't know much about the RAW.

A little background about me I own a signshop and we do large format printing, so it is possible that some of these shots will be made into full size wall graphics "Fatheads" or at least 24"x36" prints, and I was told that 1600 will make the photos grainy when enlarged.

What stops the action? F-Stop or shutter speed? I thought shutter speed and that is why I set the camera for shutter priority. If I set the camera to aperture priority I was afraid the shutter speed would get to low and need to delete a good shot, I figured at least if it is a little dark I could make some adjustments and the shot would not be lost. I will try these recomendations tonight at the JV Game, this should be a challenge the lighting on the JV field isn't very good. should I start the game with ISO high or work my way up?

Thanks Again
Gary
Shutter speed stops action, but the widest aperture (and highest ISO) will allow for the fastest shutter speed. In this situation I would always use the widest aperture possible. For ISO, an underexposed shot at a lower ISO that is adjusted in post processing will have much MORE noise than a properly exposed shot at a higher ISO.

I do not have a flash yet, I was told I need to get a Canon 580ex so it will refresh fast enough for multiple shots and I want to save $$ for a lens of my own, I'm leaning toward the Sigma 70-200 f2.8

I'll read about the custom white balance. Would I need to do the custom White balance several times through out the night?
Yes, you would have to reset the custom WB multiple times as the light changes.

I would try going at it with natural light for a while before jumping into flash. If that means you have to pack up by halftime that might be for the best.

[H20boy]

If you do try the flash, though I haven't tried this myself yet on the field, i hear mounting the flash below the camera on the monopod will work best. I wrapped my monopod with tennis raquet grip tape first where the flash would rest, then bungied the thing to the monopod upside down. I'm about 24 below the camera now. ETTL chord would work best, but you an always use the cybersyncs (or similar) and manually adjust the flash. Manually set the zoom to 105mm also...extends that flash out some more.

[Methodical]

When you use Tv mode the aperture will fluctuate based on what the meter sees. Maybe use the soccer game to experiment with manual exposure. Set aperture wide open (i.e. f2.8 ) and shutter speed to what you want, then meter off the grass and zero the meter using the ISO setting. This way you control your aperture and shutter. Then you can play with the ISO. Always take some test shots to see how things look and view the histogram. With this method you get consistent exposures. Then practice, practice and practice.

Here's a simple test to show the power of the M mode: Hang an object on a branch under the shade of a tree and take a picture in Av mode, save it. Now switch to the M mode, point the camera to the grass under the hanging object and center the meter, now recompose (note: ignore the meter after you 0 it) and take a picture of the object hanging in the tree, save it. Compare the 2 and which one looks better exposed. It took me awhile to come to the M side but I have now and can kick myself for the delay.

Now with that said, I still shoot in Av mode when photographing birds because I don't have time to make adjustments, or maybe I am not fast enough. However, in those times where the bird is in the shade of a tree or branch and is a willing subject, I use the M mode to expose it correctly because the Av mode will not expose it correctly. But again, I shoot in the RAW to allow the latitude to make corrections.

Do they allow flash at the games?

Good luck and report back

Btw, why do I get a smiling face in place of the #8?...off topic I know.

[BenJohnson]

Btw, why do I get a smiling face in place of the #8?...off topic I know.
8 ) = sunglasses smiley face - remove the space between the "8" and ")"

[Methodical]

8 ) = sunglasses smiley face - remove the space between the "8" and ")"

gotcha

[Gary Wiant]

Ok so I went to the Soccer game it was a little dark and rainy so I started with the ISO at 400 and soon uped it to 800, I tried 1600 but that looked over exposed so I set the camera to 800 and the photos look pretty good, I was so excited to get to the game to practice I forgot my monopod so the focus is a tiny bit off not bad but not like the last batch of soccer photos. I guess I never paid that much attention to the exposure scale I kept the camera in Shutter priority and kept the indicator in the center of the scale
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/FORESTAREAGAME170.jpg
can anyone tell me what metering I sould set the camera at for general & sports photography? I've read the manual but I don't really understand it.

when looking at the histogram what am I looking for?

Thanks for the help
Gary

[Methodical]

I use a mix of evaluative and spot metering mode for all my photos. Maybe you should set your camera to 1/3 stops for both shutter speed (500, 800, 1250 etc.) and ISO (400, 500, 640, 800, 1250 etc)so that you can have a little more flexibility. Not familiar with the XT but it should be located in the Custom functions.

As stated above, I tend to shoot more in the M mode that way when I meter off the grass and get the exposure correct (look at Histogram and expose to right), it wouldn't matter what color the teams are wearing, the exposure would be consistent and correct, i.e. black looks black and whites are not too bright (blown out).

As far as histogram, I look at it to make sure the shadows (black) and highlight (whites) stay in between to 2 extreme points, but try and expose to the right. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will post but the link below explains it though.

Here's a link on this subject: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8686834#post8686834

[BenJohnson]

Ok so I went to the Soccer game it was a little dark and rainy so I started with the ISO at 400 and soon uped it to 800, I tried 1600 but that looked over exposed so I set the camera to 800 and the photos look pretty good, I was so excited to get to the game to practice I forgot my monopod so the focus is a tiny bit off not bad but not like the last batch of soccer photos. I guess I never paid that much attention to the exposure scale I kept the camera in Shutter priority and kept the indicator in the center of the scale
Changing the ISO from 800 to 1600 should not change how the image looks (as far as exposure). If it made it look "lighter" when you changed it to ISO1600 it means that you were underexposed at ISO800. The picture you posted looks extremely underexposed. I would be VERY surprised if the exposure indicator was centered for that shot. I noticed that you were on shutter priority at 1/320sec and the camera set the aperture to f/2.8, any time that the camera is forced to choose the maximum aperture there is a good chance it is actually underexposed.

I would really, really suggest you try aperture priority and bump the ISO up and up as it gets darker. I would not be surprised if this shot should have actually been at ISO1600 and still need a slower shutter speed. What you are doing now is FORCING the camera to incorrectly expose the image. If you are going to use a semi-automatic setting (aperture or shutter priority) you need to at least give the camera a chance!

EDIT: I would stick to Evaluative metering until you gain a bit more experience then you can play around with the others and see which fits the situation. About that time you will probably switch to manual mode and not need it anyways :D

[BenJohnson]

I use a mix of evaluative and spot metering mode for all my photos. Maybe you should set your camera to 1/3 stops for both shutter speed (500, 800, 1250 etc.) and ISO (400, 500, 640, 800, 1250 etc)so that you can have a little more flexibility. Not familiar with the XT but it should be located in the Custom functions.
The XT does not have 1/3 step ISO's.

[Methodical]

The XT does not have 1/3 step ISO's.

Ok.

As stated above use evaluative for now and Av (wide open) that way you control the aperture. Now that I think about, I have yet to use Tv mode since I've had the camera. Av seems to do the trick for me when needed but that's because I want to control the depth of field. It's just trial and error.

[Gary Wiant]

Thanks guys I've got a Jr High game I can shot some photos at tomorrow night (Wed.) and I'll post how things go

[Gary Wiant]

OK I think the exposure is getting better I shot this on Aperture Priority and set the camera to F2.8 and kept an eye on the shutter speed which was hovering around 125 - 160. Also I used my Monopod for the first time and I love it compaired to the tripod with the legs folded together.
This was taken on the last drive of the game so it was getting pretty dark.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/jhvsredbank091.jpg
Let me know what you think

Thanks

[BenJohnson]

Here's the EXIF:

File Name: jhvsredbank091.jpg
File Size: 197 kb - 1023 x 682
Camera Make: Canon
Camera Model: Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XT
Date/Time: 2009:09:23 18:46:19
Resolution: 1023 x 682
Flash Used: No
Focal Length: 140.0mm
CCD Width: 22.20mm
Exposure Time: 0.0080 s (1/125)
Aperture: f/2.8
ISO Equiv.: 800
Whitebalance: Auto
Metering Mode: matrix
Exposure: shutter priority (semi-auto)
It's telling me that:
-You're still using shutter priority
-The ISO is only up to 800
-Shutter speed is fixed to 1/125

Once again, this photo looks underexposed and I believe that's because you're forcing the camera into doing this. Also, with that focal length (and up to the 200mm end) on crop body you should be trying for higher shutter speed to avoid camera shake. Reaching proper shutter speeds may not be possible with the lighting, but ISO1600 is going to help get you there. The monopod will help with camera shake, but it appears to be present in the above shot.

I would still suggest ISO1600, aperture priority, f/2.8 aperture, and shoot until it gets so dark that your shutter speeds drop below an acceptable level (I would consider anything slower than 1/250 pretty much hopeless). It also appears that you are using center point focused and focused on the player well behind the ball.

I took a quick stab at editing some of the shots you have posted here, but you do not have image editing OK'd, so I won't post the samples unless you say it's alright. Even with working with small size files, a few quick auto adjusts (mainly to correct for the underexposure), and the shots look much better.

[Gary Wiant]

Ben - I enabled the file edit. I just looked at the camera and it is set to shutter priority I was thinking I had it on Aperture, but the scale stayed in the center, I made sure I checked that all night.

I'm not sure how it has camera shake, I have IS level 2 turned on so I'm not sure why it would have camera shake.

I have asked a couple local photographers about focus point and both of them have said use center point. what do you recommend?

Thanks

[Methodical]

I'd say stick with the center point for focus you have better control on what the camera focuses on. If you use auto focus the camera will try and guess at what it thinks is the focal point. I'd also suggest turning off IS while using the tripod or monopod (just try it and see); it does not stop action - only high shutter speed will do that.

The missed focus, I believe, could have been caused by the IS; it slows things down in my opinion. You may have move the camera to focus on the player with the ball but the IS didn't allow it to shift as fast.

Do this test with IS on: point at something and move slowly (see how things seem slower) and then do the same but move faster (again things are slower). Now turn the IS off and do the same (now see how fast things are). You will see how IS slows things down a bit.

IS is good for slow shutter speeds of either non-moving or very slow moving objects. At least that is when I use it. Try shooting with IS off when using the monopod.

Let me know your results.

Ben - I enabled the file edit. I just looked at the camera and it is set to shutter priority I was thinking I had it on Aperture, but the scale stayed in the center, I made sure I checked that all night.

I'm not sure how it has camera shake, I have IS level 2 turned on so I'm not sure why it would have camera shake.

I have asked a couple local photographers about focus point and both of them have said use center point. what do you recommend?

Thanks

[BenJohnson]

Ben - I enabled the file edit. I just looked at the camera and it is set to shutter priority I was thinking I had it on Aperture, but the scale stayed in the center, I made sure I checked that all night.

I'm not sure how it has camera shake, I have IS level 2 turned on so I'm not sure why it would have camera shake.

I have asked a couple local photographers about focus point and both of them have said use center point. what do you recommend?

Thanks
It may not be camera shake, possibly just the missed focus appears that way. I would also suggest leaving IS off during sports shooting, especially on support (mono or tripod).

Center point is the correct focus point to use. It looks like what probably happened in this shot is that you were tracking the player carrying the ball. When he fell or was tackled you did not move the camera down to keep the focus point on the correct player. The focus point was then on the player in black and the camera took the photo before the lens was able to completely re-focus (it appears to be focused between the ball carrier and the opponent directly behind him).

With center point only AF the only thing making sure the correct subject is in focus is YOU! If you do not have the camera pointed in the right direction the focus will grab onto whatever is in the center of the frame.

Here are my auto adjusted files:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/xluben211/FORESTAREAGAME170.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/xluben211/Keystone002.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/xluben211/bubbarun.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/xluben211/jhvsredbank091.jpg

I found them all to be significantly underexposed (even the ones in better light). Some adjusted better than others, I simply used the "auto" adjustments in Photoshop. I also did a sharpening pass, but the small size files I had to start with (which already had artifacts) did not sharpen that well.

Fixing low resolution JPG's in post processing is obviously less than ideal. Proper exposure of the shots as captured by the camera is the first step to better images. Please try Av next time (hopefully in slightly better light so your shutter speed will be higher), and post more samples! Don't be afraid of ISO1600 if you can't get at least 1/400sec at ISO800!

[Gary Wiant]

So when I set the camera to Av I assume I should keep the F-Stop wide open 2.8? and keep an eye one Shutter speed?

[BenJohnson]

So when I set the camera to Av I assume I should keep the F-Stop wide open 2.8? and keep an eye one Shutter speed?
Yes, wide open. I'd keep the ISO high enough so the shutter speed is 1/400-1/500 or faster.

[MT Stringer]

Gary, here is the way I do it.
I start off (with available daylight) in AV mode; AI Servo with the lens set at f/3.2-3.5 with the ISO at whatever it takes to get 1/1000 sec shutter speed. Usually ISO 320 -400. This has been good for the beginning of each game.

As it starts getting darker, I raise the ISO to keep the shutter speed up. Eventually, I will be up to ISO 3200. That's when I stop and change over to the flash setup.

Flash setup:
Camera on Manual exposure, shutter speed 1/250, f/3.2 - 3.5, ISO 800 - 1250, flash off shoe (mounted below on monopod with off shoe cord), ETTL. I shoot the rest of the game this way. I may tweak the flash exposure compensation one way or the other as the game progresses.

Hope this helps.
Mike

Here's a sample. 1D MK III, Sigma 120-300 f/2.8, F/3.2, 1/300 sec, ISO 800, 186mm

[Ryan468]

Just to help this info was posted on a thread I started and the info seems to be consistent with most suggestion.
Av mode - set to 2.8, center point focus, Ai Servo, set ISO and adjust to get a shutter speed minimum of 1/250, center weight metering.

I used the Xti and Sigma 70-200 (2.8) for some night baseball. The were not too bad (for my limited skills) but the ISO was maxed out.

[XTi Guy]

Gary, The above advice is great. It gives you a very solid starting point. Knowing what the lighting is like on the fields they`ve played on so far this season those setting will yield good results. The lighting on that field( Fridays game) is not the greatest. It tends to cast a bit of an orange hue. If you saw the photo on the front page of the sports section in saturday`s local paper, it`s a shot I took. Settings were ISO 800, f4.0, SS 1/250 (sync speed of 50D). Flash is set to ETTL, off camera cord mounted under camera on a monopod. I shoot manual, center point focus, AI servo,*button focus, IS turned off. I will adjust my ISO and might also bump up my flash depending on ambient, especially in the red zone, as those areas tend to be darker.

[Gary Wiant]

Thanks guys, I'm working on the changes.

XTi ( is this Eric? if so I'd like to talk to you about your flash set up).also I had the same run from the other side of the field it was neat to see the similarities.

The Camera was on 800 - 1600 all night ( I have an XT so 1600 is maxxed out.

Here is a shot from tonight I started with Aperture priority but when it started to get dark. it seemed like the SS was in the 80's so I switched to Shutter priority here is a photo taken at the beginning of the game with Av can't remember the other specs
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/9thgradeMoniteau002.jpg

Here is a shot at the end of the game with the camera set to Tv I know the SS was 125 and the F2.8 was flashing but concidering I don't have a flash yet I think it looks OK or at least "tuneable"
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/9thgradeMoniteau132.jpg
Thanks for the input

[Methodical]

If the aperture was flashing, the camera was warning you about exposure. If you shoot raw you should be able to work it though.

...
Here is a shot at the end of the game with the camera set to Tv I know the SS was 125 and the F2.8 was flashing but concidering I don't have a flash yet I think it looks OK or at least "tuneable"
Thanks for the input

[Gary Wiant]

Methodical - Can you explain what you mean about working through it?

Like I said I am a sign guy so I know aboutraster files etc. but we never work with RAW what are the advantages/disadvantages compaired to shooting in JPG?

[XTi Guy]

Gary,
Yeah, i`ll be at the game. stop by.

[Methodical]

You have all the data of the shot (digital negative similar to a film negative that you process) and have more room to adjust exposure, white balance, black, contrast, highlights, brightness etc. You can do it with a Jpeg too but you have less data to manipulate. For example a raw file maybe 21mb while and jpeg maybe say 8mb.

Update: As stated by Ben below you can do a -1 EC to get the speed up and then clean up the noise.

Methodical - Can you explain what you mean about working through it?

Like I said I am a sign guy so I know aboutraster files etc. but we never work with RAW what are the advantages/disadvantages compaired to shooting in JPG?

[BenJohnson]

Here is a shot from tonight I started with Aperture priority but when it started to get dark. it seemed like the SS was in the 80's so I switched to Shutter priority

Here is a shot at the end of the game with the camera set to Tv I know the SS was 125 and the F2.8 was flashing but concidering I don't have a flash yet I think it looks OK or at least "tuneable"
If you want a properly exposed image this is completely the wrong thing to do! The shutter speed was going into the 1/80 sec range, because that is what was NEEDED for the correct exposure with the available light! By setting it to the WRONG shutter speed you are forcing the camera to incorrectly expose. If anything I would set your EC to -1 and then you can at least do the same adjustment (1 stop brighter) to all of the photo's. This would be the equivalent of shooting at ISO3200. But unless there is some reason you actually need too shoot that late into the game I would honestly suggest packing it up once your shutter speed goes below 1/200sec (at f/2.8 and ISO1600).

[Gary Wiant]

As XTi Guy said lighting is much better at the home field, so hear are some photos throghout the game all shot on Av 2.8 ISO 1600 and the SS didn't drop below 250 that I noticed.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/Punxsy048.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/Punxsy086.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/Punxsy092.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/Punxsy143.jpg

Thanks Again for all the help guys I'm going to a girls soccer game tom. morning

[BenJohnson]

The exposure on those looks so much better! Great work.

A few other suggestions if you don't mind:

The last one is mis-focused. That would go straight in the junk pile of my initial sort.
The first two are near-full body shots of an individual. I would definitely shoot those in portrait orientation and try to fill the frame.
All four of them have cut off feet. Unless your framing is tight enough to that their heads are to the top of the frame, try to include the feet!


The third one is excellent! It would be even better if you could see their feet.

EDIT: If you don't mind, here are my quick edits:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/xluben211/Punxsy048_new.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/xluben211/Punxsy086_new.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/xluben211/Punxsy092_new.jpg

[Strnge]

Here is a link to a under camera flash set up done by canonnoob. I too am doing my first year of football both day and night. Today I made my version of the mount. I will get to try it out next Friday night. The game starts at 8 p.m. It should be fun.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=750150

Mike

[Methodical]

Hey Ben would you mind sharing what edits you did?

Thanks

[Ryan468]

I would agree that the first three (of the most recent posts) are much better. What an improvement!! Now if I could show an improvement.

[BenJohnson]

Hey Ben would you mind sharing what edits you did?

Thanks
Here you go:


Auto contrast.
USM for local detail.
USM for added contrast.
Crop.
Save.

The first USM pass will have a large value for amount (100-200%, more or less depending), fairly small radius (0.3-1.0 pixels), and a threshold from 0-5 levels. When performing a USM pass on an already resized (for web) image, I usually just play around with those numbers until I get the detail I want without too many halo effects.

The second USM pass uses a much smaller value for amount (1-20%) and a large radius (20-200 pixels). Once again this varies based on the effect you would like and the dimensions of the image being worked on.

Here's a much better explanation:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/unsharp-mask.htm
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/local-contrast-enhancement.htm

The first USM pass is what really makes the web sized images look better. If you resize to a much smaller size and then do not sharpen afterwards you WILL get a soft image! Conversely, downsizing and then sharpening can make a soft image look just as sharp as a good image!

http://www.juzaphoto.com/eng/articles/judging_image_quality_photos_web.htm

[Methodical]

OK. I usually do a USM between 200-300 at 0.3 also on all my images after I open the image from ACR and before converting to Jpeg. I adjust the highlights, brightness, contrast and saturation in PS.

I don't do any resizing at all as I upload images to my Zenfolio account and have the option there to choose the size I want when sharing photos.

It seems like you added some blacks to the image or maybe that's the contrast you added.

Ben do you sharpen by duplicating layers or just USM on the original image? I'm wanting to do more local sharpening to reduce introducing noise into the image.

I read the links provided...placed in the vaults

Thanks for sharing

Al

Here you go:

Auto contrast.
USM for local detail.
USM for added contrast.
Crop.
Save.The first USM pass will have a large value for amount (100-200%, more or less depending), fairly small radius (0.3-1.0 pixels), and a threshold from 0-5 levels. When performing a USM pass on an already resized (for web) image, I usually just play around with those numbers until I get the detail I want without too many halo effects.

The second USM pass uses a much smaller value for amount (1-20%) and a large radius (20-200 pixels). Once again this varies based on the effect you would like and the dimensions of the image being worked on.

Here's a much better explanation:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/unsharp-mask.htm
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/local-contrast-enhancement.htm

The first USM pass is what really makes the web sized images look better. If you resize to a much smaller size and then do not sharpen afterwards you WILL get a soft image! Conversely, downsizing and then sharpening can make a soft image look just as sharp as a good image!

http://www.juzaphoto.com/eng/articles/judging_image_quality_photos_web.htm

[psycorpse]

I skimmed through the posted so sorry if this was stated....

The LCD on the back of the camera is generally (in my opinion) for seeing if you got the shot. I would look at the histogram before judging just the image in the LCD. I think that my LCD shows a proper exposure a little hot. So I know that if it looks a little overexposed I know that it is prolly close and I check the histogram after that.

[northpointphoto]

Ok first off unless you are shooting during the day with good light 200 ISO is not going to be enough. For night football unless you are shooting in a college or professional stadium chances are anything under 1000 ISO is not going to be enough.

Whenever I shoot night football I normally start with my settings around 1/400, f3.5, ISO 1600.

Using those settings if the photos are underexposed I will increase the ISO to 2500, if I get to 2500 and they are still underexposed I then decrease the aperture to 2.8. If they are still under exposed I then decrease the shutter speed but I never drop below 1/320. If I still cant get good exposure I will drop down to 1/250 and use flash.

Using those settings if the photos are overexposed I will alternate between decreasing the ISO one step and increasing the shutter speed by one step till I get good exposure.

Also you want to properly set your white balance. Not only will this get correct colors but it will assist in the exposure to an extent. I never use auto white balance for sports because cycling lights will give you different color contrasts in each frame. I always use kelvin or preset the white balance using a white card.

Cropping is the next big issue. I good rule to follow is shoot tight and crop tighter. You don't want unnecessary space/players in the photos. Also, be aware of your background, you dont want distracting objects (cars, buildings, random junk) in your backgrounds.

When it comes to editing I prefer to use levels to adjust exposure, you get a little more control.

Also, for the most part shooting RAW for sports is pointless, it only takes up more space on the card and decreases your continuous FPS speed/ buffer. If properly set your exposure and white balance in camera you wont need all the benefits of raw processing to correct things. Plus if you really need to you can open up .JPEG files in Adobe Raw editor with the same control.

Here's your first photo. All I did was adjust the exposure using levels.

[Methodical]

I agree shooting RAW will slow down the fps but only if you spray and pray. If your shots are intentional and targeted, fps won't be a concern. If you are shooting for personal pleasure and willing to do a little processing then Raw is an option to consider. But some people don't have the time or want to bother with Raw processing, which is fine.

Since you do shoot Jpeg and if you want custom WB check the link below (has videos) that provides tips on how to set custom wb for Jpegs along with the proper tools to accomplish it.

http://www.rawworkflow.com/whibal/

Just providing options

[canonnoob]

It may not be camera shake, possibly just the missed focus appears that way. I would also suggest leaving IS off during sports shooting, especially on support (mono or tripod).!

if he has it on a mono.. especially at the shutter speeds i have seen he should have IS on.... Tripod no but mono yes because it doesnt totally hold off on motion.

[BenJohnson]

if he has it on a mono.. especially at the shutter speeds i have seen he should have IS on.... Tripod no but mono yes because it doesnt totally hold off on motion.
When I have used IS (hand held) for indoor sports at low shutter speeds the IS makes framing IMPOSSIBLE. With Mode 2 IS on my 70-200 this wouldn't be a problem, but with Mode 1 IS (X and Y directional) the viewfinder will jump all over the place as you pan (at least that has been my experience). I've never used a monopod, though.

[canonnoob]

When I have used IS (hand held) for indoor sports at low shutter speeds the IS makes framing IMPOSSIBLE. With Mode 2 IS on my 70-200 this wouldn't be a problem, but with Mode 1 IS (X and Y directional) the viewfinder will jump all over the place as you pan (at least that has been my experience). I've never used a monopod, though.

Gotcha, yeah i have never had a problem.. but that is just me... :D

[Gary Wiant]

OK guys I didn't disappear I've been taking photos and tons of them. Here is a photo I took at the JV game this past Monday lighting is bad and weather was iffy, I'm pretty happy with the outcome, especially since my son is finally cleared with his knee and playing (he's #67 15yrs old 6'2" 245#)

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp51/GaryWiant/JVUnion160.jpg

Let me know what you think

[willshoot4food]

...

[Gary Wiant]

I'm happy with the outcome considering the environment the photo was taken in. tomorrow I'll post a photo I took using AEB