Equipment Question: Would you bother with a Crop Camera for weddings?

[Hadooken]

With the 7D coming out, which is looking to be an impressive camera, is anyone going to use it for a 2nd body? If money is not a big issue, would you bother going crop, or would you just use two FF cameras (5dMKII).

Are the advantages to using a crop camera for weddings? Anyone here use a FF camera, and a crop camera? If so, which lenses to you tend to mount on the crop vs the FF camera.

Does anyone here use exclusively FF cameras, and feel they are lacking something?

[shaggymatt]

Depends on where you are in your gear lineup. I used to shoot crop bodies only. Made the jump to FF earlier this year. I LOVE the 5D, and have a 5D2 on order. The crop body will still be my second, making the 5D the backup. But there are still things that the 40D does better since it is a newer body. It has a higher FPS rate than the 5D, which I kick myself sometimes when I grab the wrong camera when going to shoot my daughter's sporting events!

If you already have EF-S lenses (notably the 17-55), I wouldn't think twice about the 7D. But if you have to 5D2's I wouldn't see why you'd want to go to the 1.6x format.

For the most part, I leave the 70-200 2.8 IS on the 40D, and use the 5D for all the prime work.

[bnlearle]

I use (exclusively) FF bodies. But last year I used ALL of them (40D, 5D, 1DMKIIN).

I also wasn't the guy who bought a FF because they are "just cooler". I had no clue I'd like it. I had an opportunity to buy one brand new for $1500 (insane for the time) so I grabbed it. I actually bought it for the resolution - had NO idea it would be that different of a perspective.

Once I got it, each wedding that passed, I just used it more and more. Until I stopped using my 40D entirely. Sold that so I picked up another 5D. When I did that, I noticed that I stopped using my 1 series. So I sold that. Then I upgraded to a couple 5DMKII's.

So for me it was a very objective, practical move to FF. I had all the other crops and just didn't like it as much. So for me, I've never felt I've lacked a thing.

That doesn't mean that YOU shouldn't get a crop. If you feel you're lacking the crop, go for it! Tons of great photographers shoot with crop ;)

[krb]

If the 7D can handle focusing in low light as well as I've seen claimed then it might be perfect with a fast prime for low light shots with no flash.

[tim]

I current use two 40Ds, and i'll be getting a 7D when they come out. The primary reason I use crop bodies is the 17-55 F2.8 IS lens. The secondary reason is the 40D/7D type bodies make great photos and cost a lot less than full frame bodies.

I considered going to the 5D2, but there's no 2.8 IS standard zoom, which I like. Also i'd have to replace my wide and standard zooms, and my fast prime, all are EF-s lenses.

[gravy graffix]

they make EFS primes? other than a sigma 30mm...
treed: oh and the 60 macro...


im not winning here lol.

[picturecrazy]

As long as canon makes 1.6 crops, I will always have one in my wedding kit. Anyone who says full frame is always better is fooling themselves. There is always a list of advantages and disadvantages for EVERY format. I carry multiple formats so I can use the best tool for the situation. Honestly, I'd feel slightly handicapped without my 40D in my bag, and probably poorer too.

Tim brings up an excellent point. If you are running a business, every purchase should make business sense and bring a return on investment. Otherwise, it's a poor decision. One of the BIGGEST advantages of 1.6 crop is the cost. You can make amazing, award winning wedding imagery with a 1.6 crop. If you can't, then it's due to your lack of skill and vision and nothing to do with the camera. That being said, it is hard to overlook the low price of 1.6 crops for the amazing capabilities it brings to the table.

I'm not saying it's stupid to use full frame only for wedding shooting. Not at all. I'm just tired of people giving uneducated blanket statements saying that full frame is always better and that any wedding photographer worth their salts should use full frame. That is simply not true.

If I were to stop shooting architectural, commercial, motorsport, and shoot ONLY weddings and portraits, I would probably have nothing more than two 40D units.

[darosk]

As long as canon makes 1.6 crops, I will always have one in my wedding kit. Anyone who says full frame is always better is fooling themselves. There is always a list of advantages and disadvantages for EVERY format. I carry multiple formats so I can use the best tool for the situation. Honestly, I'd feel slightly handicapped without my 40D in my bag, and probably poorer too.

Tim brings up an excellent point. If you are running a business, every purchase should make business sense and bring a return on investment. Otherwise, it's a poor decision. One of the BIGGEST advantages of 1.6 crop is the cost. You can make amazing, award winning wedding imagery with a 1.6 crop. If you can't, then it's due to your lack of skill and vision and nothing to do with the camera. That being said, it is hard to overlook the low price of 1.6 crops for the amazing capabilities it brings to the table.

I'm not saying it's stupid to use full frame only for wedding shooting. Not at all. I'm just tired of people giving uneducated blanket statements saying that full frame is always better and that any wedding photographer worth their salts should use full frame. That is simply not true.

If I were to stop shooting architectural, commercial, motorsport, and shoot ONLY weddings and portraits, I would probably have nothing more than two 40D units.
:oops: Oh Lloyd, you make me love my 40D a little more when you say something like that. I think I'm going to go cuddle with it right now.

[form]

Crop is fine but I like full frame better. I like the way it renders depth of field vs. field of view, mostly because of the capability for narrower DoF and more background blurring, and the additional control that provides. The difference is more significant to me when using wider focal lengths: Those focal lengths would not provide much background blur on a crop camera at many of my typical subject distances, but they do on full frame.

There are many photos where a narrow depth of field and good background blur gives the subject isolation necessary to distinguish snapshot-quality from professional quality images. It gives that "pop" some people have referred to, which isn't present when the whole scene is in focus. That's not universal, and in fact when greater DoF would produce the desired image a crop camera would do a better job...but most of the time the style I do benefits from narrow DoF. My artistic vision is a bit of a tunnel, so most of the time I see most parts of the environment as a distraction rather than complementary.

[tim]

they make EFS primes? other than a sigma 30mm...
treed: oh and the 60 macro...

im not winning here lol.

Yeah I use the Sigma 30 F1.4, a great little lens that cost me about US$450 instead of $1400 for the Canon 35 F1.4. I don't think Canon makes EF-s primes.

Tim brings up an excellent point. If you are running a business, every purchase should make business sense and bring a return on investment. Otherwise, it's a poor decision. One of the BIGGEST advantages of 1.6 crop is the cost. You can make amazing, award winning wedding imagery with a 1.6 crop. If you can't, then it's due to your lack of skill and vision and nothing to do with the camera. That being said, it is hard to overlook the low price of 1.6 crops for the amazing capabilities it brings to the table.

Many people don't treat their photography like a business, especially the weekend warriors and part timers. For some people weddings are a good way to help pay for their camera gear. Once you run it as a business and have the accounting systems set up so you can track your income, assets, and expenses things like cost of gear starts to look important.

Could I afford full frame? Yes. Do I want it? Not too bothered, maybe one day. Do I need it to create great images? Nope.

[form]

I never ran it like a business, and now I only have 1 wedding per month for the next several months. Good thing I'm not depending on it to survive.

[PMCphotography]

... i'll be getting a 7D when they come out.... The secondary reason is the 40D/7D type bodies make great photos and cost a lot less than full frame bodies.



+1. My thoughts exactly. I have a 5dmk2 anyway and don't like it a bit. It's actually my backup camera. Crop cameras are also lighter(a consideration for me) and being able to use ef-s lenses are also big advantages.

[bnlearle]

Yeah, but don't you not like yours because it's broken?

[PMCphotography]

No I don't like mine because it is ridiculously slow to focus, even in bright daylight, and the lens detach button is way too sensitive, and my lenses sometimes fall off.

[bnlearle]

Yeah, that last part... I think yours is broken.

And I'm completely realistic about the 5DII. I make no excuses for it's terrible focus in low light - especially since I use the two worst focusers of them all - the 5DII and 50L. However, in normal light, they both work just fine. If I have my 70-200 on there, I can't hardly tell a difference from my old 40D's.

If yours is wacky in bright daylight, you need to send it in. That plus you have lenses falling off. Canon should take care of that...

[PMCphotography]

i've sent it in three times, actually. Twice for the lens release button and once for the focusing issue. Canon says everything is within tolerance. I am not exagerating- even slightly touching the release button while touching the lens( while zooming, for instance) causes the lens to fall off...I know when i use it to be ready in case it pops off. The lens release button problem isn't entirely unheard of, i know of a few people who it has happened to in my area, and have read a bit about it on forums and things.

It hunts in bright daylight, no matter which lens i use. If i use AI servo, it's literally a third to half of a second or so behind what i'm trying to focus on. Canon says this isn't abnormal. So it's my backup for the moment.

[tim]

Sell it.

[PMCphotography]

I'm still using as a backup camera for the time being until the 7d is released. Then i'll sell it.

[madhatter04]

Of course I'd bother with a crop body for weddings!
This forum (and possibly others but I don't bother to read them) has built up the idea that it's full-frame or nothing, and that certainly is a sad way of thinking.
I originally bought my 5D because I wanted to have a set of lenses that would behave the same way on film as they would on digital (I was a photography major before switching to graphic design). Then, I switched, sold my film camera, and have a 7D ordered for my 'other' body. I will probably use both the 7d and the 5d pretty equally.

[lil_miss]

The crop is useful at weddings if you need that extra length on the 70-200 :)

[Peacefield]

I love my 5D2 but can't imagine not keeping a 1.6 camera in the bag. Different perspectives for different situations. Plus, it essentially doubles the lenses in your bag. I shoot with zooms when light permits, but carry to fixed for dark situations; the 35 and the 85 1.2. Put these on a 1.6 and I (pretty much) also have a 50 and a 135. I work with three bodies to keep lens swapping to a minimum. There will always be at least one FF and one 1.6. Right now, my third is also 1.6, but I think about making it FF instead because I generally do prefer it.

[SuzyView]

I have both, the 5D2 and 40D. I use both at events. They have strengths and weaknesses. Don't underestimate the reach and the quality a good camera can give, no matter how big the sensor.

[cory1848]

I have been using 2 30D's for weddings and they still suit me just fine. If business allows me to upgrade, then I will, if not then nothing is lost by not upgrading. I would like hte 7D though just because I want to start getting into the video part of things...

[bnlearle]

Great outlook, Cory ;) I still used some 20D's last year and did just fine :)

Bobby

[Hadooken]

Thanks for your insight everyone.

[FamilyJules]

I am so glad that this was asked..... I'm completely happy with my 2 40D's, but have had a few "rolls of the eyes" from other togs when I tell them what I am shooting with.
It's great to hear from the giants in the industry and what they truly think. There is no "perfect" ANYTHING! Everything has its goods and bads.
Now, of course, once my business allows me (and this IS my business... my livelihood) I would love to upgrade to a 5D MKII.... But until then, I'm perfectly happy with my 40d's and my 17-55mm 2.8's .....My favorite wedding combo, so far :)

[tim]

It's great to hear from the giants in the industry and what they truly think.

There are no industry giants here. The same question was recently asked on a pro forum, most pros seem to shoot full frame and look down on people who don't. A few shoot in medium format and look down on 35mm users. The more enlightened ones recognise that they're just tools and a good photographer can work with any camera.

[FamilyJules]

There are no industry giants here.

LOL, to me, most of you are giants :)
giants, meaning photographers that inspire me

[tim]

We have big fish in a very small pond, there's a whole ocean out there :)

[ShotByTom]

The ONLY reason I switched to the 5D was because I got the deal of the century! I'm surprised how much I like it and I hope to never be without some version of the 5D! In my opinion the IQ really is better than any other camera I've used. I've never been a fan of the 17-55, and that seems to be one big reason why people often keep a crop camera, so I have no plans of going back to one.

I would like to have something that focuses a bit faster for situations when it's needed, so I will be looking for a 7D or 1D II when my budget can afford it. I'm in no hurry though, my 5D is working very well for me.

[moogyboobles]

This is something playing on my mind. I only have a 450D, just second shooting at the moment. Then if I'm good enough I'll apply for a grant to help buy a 5D and a couple 1.2 lenses. Then perhaps I can do this properly and charge for it.
If not looks like I'm getting a job at the supermarket (I'm a stay at home mum at the moment, just been waiting for the youngest to get old enough for me to work)!

[RobNYC]

I use a 5DII and a 1DIII. I usually leave the 24-70 on the 5D and either the 50 1.4 or the 70-200 on the 1D. I will sometimes through the 14L on the 5D if the occassion calls for it. I used to use a 40D to compliment the 1D. Now that I have the 5D, I have no problem with FF vs. crop and I find that crop is fantastic as well... but after the 5D I wish the 1D had just a few more megapixels for a little more cropability, etc.