First wedding - lessons learned

[tim]

NB: This is now a fairly old thread, and most of the advice is pretty outdated as i've learned, but it might still be useful to some people. See links to the wedding FAQ and recommended books in my sig.

To help others doing their first wedding in the future, here are the lessons I learned from mine. I wrote these down for myself, and i'm sharing them to help others who're doing their first wedding soon.

First, a brief description of the wedding. It was done for a friend of a friend, who offered payment, which I turned down. I said they can pay my expenses, and if they like the photos they can make a "donation". I did as much organisation as I could leading up to the wedding, but they weren't at all organised, so for most things I had to wing it and work it out on the day.

The wedding was done in a large old house, the wedding was meant to be outside, but it was raining so it had to be done inside. The room the ceremony was in was so small that some people couldn't make it in, I was in the front row about 1 meter from the wedding party, along with a few other people with cameras. Formals were in a community theatre, under stage lighting.

I'll post some photos in a few days once i've done all my processing.


Ok, so here's my lessons learned, in approximate order of importance to me. If you don't like them or don't agree, tough, I wrote them for myself and it's what i'll do next time.
--

1) SHOOT RAW. The pace on a wedding day can be frantic, you might not have time to get everything perfect, at least not during your first attempt at a wedding. RAW let me rescue shots that would have been lost if i'd been shooting JPG.
2) Organisation is key. The pace, as I said, is frantic, and you might not have time to eat, drink, or think. Key things about this:
- Have shot lists for all shots the bride and groom want.
- Have a drink and easy to eat food in your camera bag/vest. Assume there won't be any other food around on the day.
- There's often no time for monopods or tripods except during formal shots, use IS lenses or high ISO.
3) Wear comfortable shoes. You'll probably be warm and running around a lot so dress appropriately.
4) Review the histogram regularly, even if you think you got the shot.
5) Posing people well is hard. Read books before hand, look at other peoples pictures, and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! If you've never given instructions to an inexperienced model before you'll be in trouble. Even with all i'd read and a practice session I wasn't prepared enough.
6) Take a minimum of 3 pictures of each posed shot, checking the histogram after each, and at least 5 shots of each group pose.
7) Use a custom white ballance if possible, especially under mixed light conditions. I'll cut a LOT of time off your post processing workflow.
8) Don't use partial metering if you're in a hurry, unless you have something like a bright background and a dark subject.
9) Be careful to get horizons level, especially for formal shots. If you have a line of people, make sure you're equidistant from the people at either end, otherwise the shot will look slanted.
10) Don't cut off hands, feet, or anything else in formals.
11) If you're using a diffuser, bring twice as many batteries as you think you'll need, or a high capacity battery pack.
12) Don't underestimate how long post processing will take. Better to take one good photo that you get everything right in than five quick ones that need 15 minutes post processing. You have to ballance that with getting the shot though.
13) Dress like you're a guest, or at least tidily. If you wear jeans you may get less respect and co-operation from guests, which you need to get shots.
14) Have the biggest camera at the wedding, that way people will be in no doubt who the offical photographer is. I had to move people with smaller cameras out of the way for some of the shots, and since I was polite they didn't seem to mind.
15) Use a flash at the reception if it's dark. ISO 1600's acceptable (just) if you get the exposure right on, but with random lights around spoiling the exposure you'll end up with a lot of noise, which means a poor image or lots of post processing.
16) Flash brakets are essential, diffusers are slightly less so.

Here's a couple of books I found useful:
- The Best of Wedding Photojournalism: Techniques and Images from the Pros, by Bill Hurter. Link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1584281227/qid=1135897953?tag2=headphonerevi-20).
- Digital Wedding Photography by Paul Gero. Link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1592004717?tag2=headphonerevi-20).

[RbrtPtikLeoSeny]

This is some great information tim! Thanks for posting! I'm curious though which books you would recommend someone to read. Any really good ones out there that you found truely helpful? :-)

[R1 Kid]

Noted in the ol'memory bank

[tim]

I really liked this book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1584281227/qid=1135897953?tag2=headphonerevi-20).

[DocFrankenstein]

If you've never given instructions to an inexperienced model before you'll be in trouble. Even with all i'd read and a practice session I wasn't prepared enough.
I think this is the most important "people" aspect.

[antaine]

Tim, what did you use for your group shots? Surely the Tamron 28-75 was not wide enough. I have a similar wedding to you in Sept - the bride didn't even want a photographer and initially wanted me to take 6 photos! Her last comments to me were that she wasn't fussy.

But she does want a family photo that will involve approx 15-20 people, and space will be confined if its raining outside as we will have to use a church porch.

Therefore I feel that I need something wider than 28 (x1.6) for these formal shots

thanks, Antaine.

[tim]

Antaine, I used the short end of my 70-200 F2.8, mostly at 70-100mm. I was a fair distance from them, as the formals were all taken in a theatre, and I was half way back on a raised platform. In general, you're better to be further back using a long lens than up close with a short lens, it's more flattering and you get less distortion of the persons features.

[antaine]

thanks Tim, but I won't have the luxury of being too far away from these guys so I'll practice with my Tamron with dummies (!!) and see how I get on

A.

[Maureen Souza]

Actually, I use the 50mm/1.4 for portraits and the 16-35mm/2.8 for larger group shots........ In fact, I won't use anything more than those two for most of the day, except maybe a handful with my Tamron 28-75.
Just my recommendation.

[antaine]

that's why I might just look at a 17-40 (cannot afford the 16-35) or something equivalent in the Sigma/Tokina/Tamron range - anyone else in the same boat?!

[tim]

New lesson learned: if it's raining, don't line people up under a balcony and take the group photo from under an umbrella. The raindrops mess the the photo, which means a lot of time with the healing brush/spot healing tool in Photoshop.

[Dubsta]

A really good book is "Digital Wedding Photography" by Paul Gero...I'm reading it now and it is great!

[Maureen Souza]

New lesson learned: if it's raining, don't line people up under a balcony and take the group photo from under an umbrella. The raindrops mess the the photo, which means a lot of time with the healing brush/spot healing tool in Photoshop.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I shouldn't be enjoying your pain so much, tim. But you make me laugh. I learn a hard lesson with every shoot so that's why I am giggling.

[tim]

A really good book is "Digital Wedding Photography" by Paul Gero...I'm reading it now and it is great!

In my opinion that's a good first wedding photography book, but it's a starter book not an "everything you need to know" book. I found this book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1584281227/qid=1135897953?tag2=headphonerevi-20) much better.

[tim]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I shouldn't be enjoying your pain so much, tim. But you make me laugh. I learn a hard lesson with every shoot so that's why I am giggling.

Share the lessons learned so we don't all have to learn them the hard way!

[Maureen Souza]

Share the lessons learned so we don't all have to learn them the hard way!

You are a better man than I. I am so hard headed that I don't learn until I've done my own major screw-up!:o But I think your pointers have all been of great value!

[tim]

You are a better man than I.

I'm a better man than most women ;) :D

I believe in preparation, practice, more preparation, and more practice. Then, I review what I did, learn from it, then repeat. Then learning curve with digital is just amazing, 6 months ago I was looking to buy my first SLR and asking "do SLRs take video?"!

[Arnie1]

Intersting thread Tim, any chance of seeing some of the results?

[tim]

Yep, my website's under my profile - click "tim", then "visit tim's website".

[panzer948]

Hi Tim,


I checked out your website. Very nice. I especially liked your photos of the model. What lighting did you use on the outside shots? Also, either you are an experienced web developer or you have some nice software to present your photos. What kind of program did you use?

Thanks,

[msad1217]

Mods, can we move this to the wedding forum and making it a sticky? Thanks!

[tim]

I'll have to get around to updating the thread some time, i've learned a bunch more since I posted this thread. Glad it's helpful, not sure it's worthy for being stickied. Maybe linked from a FAQ.

[Maureen Souza]

Mods, can we move this to the wedding forum and making it a sticky? Thanks!

It's been reported for transfer, sir.

:D :D

[Wilt]

As a well seasoned shooter of weddings for a long time, you offer a lot of insight to first-timers that often does not get learned until you have a few weddings under the belt. You're a quick learner!

The only 'issue' I have is with your advice in Item 8, about not using Partial metering. Why not? I have used spot metering to great effect with all my cameras, including the Bronica ETRSi medium format film camera used for a long time to do weddings! Spot metering can 'save your bacon', where your camera can be mislead with even evaluative metering in certain settings.

[Wilt]

>> Surely the Tamron 28-75 was not wide enough. I have a similar wedding to you in Sept<<

Shooting weddings with Bronica ETRSi medium format outfit, I learned to never use my 40mm lens on group shots, only for scenes. 40mm is same as 15mm on 1.6 crop camera. I would use on 50mm and longer lens for group shots, to avoid subject distortion caused by perspective distortion. 50mm in 645 format is same as 18mm on 1.6 crop frame. Your 28mm current lens limit would be like trying to use my 'normal' lens on my Bronica, and that is not nearly wide enough when shooting distance is limited.

[tim]

As a well seasoned shooter of weddings for a long time, you offer a lot of insight to first-timers that often does not get learned until you have a few weddings under the belt. You're a quick learner!

The only 'issue' I have is with your advice in Item 8, about not using Partial metering. Why not? I have used spot metering to great effect with all my cameras, including the Bronica ETRSi medium format film camera used for a long time to do weddings! Spot metering can 'save your bacon', where your camera can be mislead with even evaluative metering in certain settings.

Thanks Wilt. That note is aimed at people shooting their first wedding, who will often be harried, panicked, or straight out terrified and not thinking clearly. I use partial more often than not now that I have more experience, but beginners might be better off using evaluative unless it's a high contrast situation (eg a light source in the frame, couple inside).

>> Surely the Tamron 28-75 was not wide enough. I have a similar wedding to you in Sept<<

Shooting weddings with Bronica ETRSi medium format outfit, I learned to never use my 40mm lens on group shots, only for scenes. 40mm is same as 15mm on 1.6 crop camera. I would use on 50mm and longer lens for group shots, to avoid subject distortion caused by perspective distortion. 50mm in 645 format is same as 18mm on 1.6 crop frame. Your 28mm current lens limit would be like trying to use my 'normal' lens on my Bronica, and that is not nearly wide enough when shooting distance is limited.

I prefer to stay at 28mm or longer for group shots, to avoid distortion. Sometimes I use my 70-200. I will use my 12-24 occasionally, because it's better to have a distorted shot than no shot at all.

[msad1217]

I'll have to get around to updating the thread some time, i've learned a bunch more since I posted this thread. Glad it's helpful, not sure it's worthy for being stickied. Maybe linked from a FAQ.

I've got this bookmarked. I just know that this forum will grow quick and just do not want this type of information to be lost. Saves people time from asking the same question twice. So sticky it, link it to an FAQ, doesn't matter. As long as it stays on top. You help more people that you realize, Tim. I appreciate all the advise you have given.

-Manny

[rvt1000]

Tim, this is an excellent thread...could you explain and expand on these two more...
7) Use a custom white ballance if possible, especially under mixed light conditions. I'll cut a LOT of time off your post processing workflow.
8) Don't use partial metering if you're in a hurry, unless you have something like a bright background and a dark subject

I'm reading the gero book and just ordered the other one...I've got a friend's wedding to do next weekend and then I'll just be advertising now trying to pick up gigs...any advice? I'll keep you updated about the next weekend...

[tim]

7: Just a general white ballance tip. Set a custom white ballance if you're in strange colored lighting, or use the presets on the camera. It'll make your workflow easier later.
8: If you're harried and not concentrating it's easy to stuff things up with partial metering. Evaluative usually works pretty well, so unless you're in a high contrast situation perhaps it's best to use that. If you're not in a hurry partial can give you better results, obviously. Meter the face, not the dress/tux.

[tim]

Here are my recommended books - i'll add to this list some time:
The Best of Wedding Photojournalism: Techniques and Images from the Pros (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1584281227/qid=1135897953?tag2=headphonerevi-20).
Digital Wedding Photography (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1592004717?tag2=headphonerevi-20) (this isn't my favorite book but it's another angle, and it's quite simple).
Posing for Portrait Photography: A Head-to-Toe Guide (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1584281340?tag2=headphonerevi-20).

[spencer87]

great thread Tim- lots of helpful info here (im getting ready to shoot my first wedding). Thanks for the book recommendations too, I was looking at The Best of Wedding Photojournalism at the book store the other day and it looks promising.

[mebailey]

Actually, I use the 50mm/1.4 for portraits and the 16-35mm/2.8 for larger group shots........ In fact, I won't use anything more than those two for most of the day, except maybe a handful with my Tamron 28-75.
Just my recommendation.

Maureen, which body are you using?

[byso]

Some great stuff here Tim.

I'm doing my first wedding for my brother this weekend. They asked me to do it and they know that's its my first wedding shoot. As usual they don't want to pay top dollar for a photographer.

But I'll treat it like a professional job.

I guess another point is that you want to pay attention on making sure your subjects have nice smiles etc, so they look good. I suspect this is the hardest part of the job.

Do you use much fill flash for your outdoor shots?

[tim]

Do you use much fill flash for your outdoor shots?

Every single outdoors shot I take has fill flash, with a 580EX mounted on a bracket with a small soft box at FEC-1 1/3 or so. Inside I don't use flash all that much unless the lighting is very harsh.

[kawter2]

Every single outdoors shot I take has fill flash, with a 580EX mounted on a bracket with a small soft box at FEC-1 1/3 or so. Inside I don't use flash all that much unless the lighting is very harsh.


I usually leave the in the bag flash about 99% of the time until i get to the reception i/e dancefloor grand entrance.

[tim]

You might want to rearrange your words a little kawter, they don't read quite right to me. I think you mean you leave the flash in the bag until the reception/dancefloor. I do exactly the opposite! Well not quite exactly, but not far off.

For my wedding last Sat it was REALLY sunny with sun directly on peoples faces for the group shots, without fill flash half the faces would've been so dark they'd be almost invisible.

[kawter2]

I usually leave the in the bag flash about 99% of the time until i get to the reception i/e dancefloor grand entrance.


hah sorry, it should read...

<<
I usually leave the flash in the bag about 99% of the time until i get to the reception i/e dancefloor grand entrance.
>>

But, sometimes there is no option when the sun is busting down and you cant controll the shadows

[cameron]

What lens did you use for this shot?

[VanceW]

Hi Tim,

I'm new to this forum (just signed up and this is my first post) and will be shooting my first wedding of a friend later this month, so your advice is warmly welcomed. :)

[byso]

Tim, I have an omnibounce instead of the softbox that you have.

Is it fair to say that the omni bounce at 45 deg, is fine for a fill flash outdoors?

[tim]

Why would you use an omnibounce at 45 degrees outside? What are you trying to achieve with it?

The omnibounce is only useful if you're bouncing the flash. By putting it at 45 degrees you're decreasing the size of the light source. Personally i'd rather use bare flash straight on, but I don't use an omnibounce at all any more. Get yourself a diffuser that will make the light seem larger, a small soft box is my pick, but it doesn't really matter what you use.

[cameron]

Why would you use an omnibounce at 45 degrees outside? What are you trying to achieve with it?

The omnibounce is only useful if you're bouncing the flash. By putting it at 45 degrees you're decreasing the size of the light source. Personally i'd rather use bare flash straight on, but I don't use an omnibounce at all any more. Get yourself a diffuser that will make the light seem larger, a small soft box is my pick, but it doesn't really matter what you use.

Something like this?

[tim]

Yeah, I use a smaller version of that. For fill I don't always use a diffuser, I think an Omnibounce at 45 degrees could be worse than plain flash (though I haven't tested it so i'm not 100% sure).

There are people around here that are way more qualified to answer questions than me, but i'm happy to share what I have learned with people.

[byso]

I would use it as a fill flash. To reduce shadows when required.

From what I understand, the Omnibounce will diffuse the flash light and gives a more even spread of light. cuts down on the hard shadows. I get great results in doors.

Hopefully, someone who uses the Omnibounce can give an opinion.

[tim]

What is your purpose for putting it at 45 degrees? What are you trying to achieve with that? Leaving it on might provide slightly less harsh light than plain flash.

I've done comparitive test shots with all my diffusers (I have about 6 types), and the OmniBounce just doesn't do it for me.

You don't need opinions from everyone here, you just need to try out the options you have for yourself. That's usually the best way to learn with photography.

[CyberPet]

I use the omnibounce and only angle it 45° if I shoot indoors - with a slave and/or a reflector to reflect lights as well. Outdoors I have the flash angled straight ahead, if the flash is too stark, then you need to set the FEC or change the flash output to just fill and give catch light.

[tim]

I use the omnibounce and only angle it 45° if I shoot indoors ...

That's how it's meant to be used! :) It has "bounce" in it's name for a reason!

[byso]

I use the omnibounce and only angle it 45° if I shoot indoors - with a slave and/or a reflector to reflect lights as well. Outdoors I have the flash angled straight ahead, if the flash is too stark, then you need to set the FEC or change the flash output to just fill and give catch light.

Do you have the omnibounce attached for outdoors angled straight ahead?

[CyberPet]

byso, yes, to soften the light a bit.

[byso]

Cheers..
From what i've read many others find this to be an ideal method.

[spencer87]

How much memory would you suggest for formals, ceremony, and reception? I am doing my first solo wedding in May and need to stock up on memory, I've read that 8gb is the bare minimum. I will be shooting RAW.

[tim]

I have 8GB of CF and i've never run out, and if I thought I might run out i'd have bought more. I know photographers that could do a wedding on 3GB and others what would want 16GB, it depends on the person and style.

[SQUAREROOT]

Tim,

May I know what are your usual settings of your camera when shooting weddings? Is this on Av, Tv, preset, or manual mode?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers!
Square

[tim]

90% AV, 10% M. Every other setting changes constantly.

[byso]

If your using a 24-70 2.8 lens, would you push it to 2.8 aperture that often?

I guess what would be the maximum aperture you'd use to make sure you had both a bride and groom in focus facing the camera front on? So would f/4 or f/5.6 be a good start?

I guess my point is a first timer may not want to risk having to many "soft" photos.

[tim]

My main lens is the Tamron 28-75 F2.8, I regularly use it wide open. Sharpness isn't an issue, for small prints you don't see it and for large prints I use the unsharp mask. At the reception I use my 50mm F1.4 @ F1.4, but that takes practice to get right (i'm still not perfect so I take a couple of each shot).

For group shots I try to hit F8 so things are all in focus.

[byso]

I guess if you're using Av mode allot then your using evaluative metering?

[tim]

I use whatever metering mode is most appropriate for the shot. I use partial metering around 60% of the time, evaluative when the dynamic range isn't too high, and very occasionally centre weighted.

If you don't know what metering modes to use you're not ready to do a wedding. You have to know your camera inside out and back to front, and should be able to get the shot no matter what you're presented with. You have to be able to use your cameras controls in the dark, partly beacuse you actually need to do that sometimes, partly because you just need to know how to use it quickly.

[cameron]

90% AV, 10% M. Every other setting changes constantly.

I use whatever metering mode is most appropriate for the shot. I use partial metering around 60% of the time, evaluative when the dynamic range isn't too high, and very occasionally centre weighted.

If you don't know what metering modes to use you're not ready to do a wedding. You have to know your camera inside out and back to front, and should be able to get the shot no matter what you're presented with. You have to be able to use your cameras controls in the dark, partly beacuse you actually need to do that sometimes, partly because you just need to know how to use it quickly.



oh the irony.....

[byso]

Tim, I know what metering modes to use and when to use them, but I was interested in what an experienced person generally uses.

Cheers

[tim]

oh the irony.....

I'm not sure what your point is, or why you're bothering to post. All you seem to do is have a go at people in a superior way without offering anything useful. If you have another point of view speak up and let us share from your advice, if not there's not much point you being here.

My point is I use Av/partial a lot, but I change to what I need to for each shot.

[cameron]

Tim, I know what metering modes to use and when to use them, but I was interested in what an experienced person generally uses.

Cheers

;) Think you may have asked the wrong cat...

[tim]

I quite clearly state my experience level, if people want my opinion they're welcome to it, for what it's worth. If you're so much better than anyone else here Cameron how come you're not offering better advice?

[byso]

I for one find Tim's info beneficial, I assumed that he didn't mind some questions that may seem boring asked. Basically his answers are reinforcing what I would do.

But considering I'm about to delve into my first wedding I guess I'm simply after some reassurances (it's a freebie and I was begged to do it). Everyone has to do there first wedding I guess!

Even though, I'm still willing to put my neck out ask some questions that may seem silly to the experienced person. Who knows maybe another "first timer" may get something out of it.

[tim]

I'm glad I can help byso. This thread isn't to teach people how to do wedding photograhy, it's to help other people doing their "first time" to stop them making the same mistakes I did.

[hqracer]

Hi Tim

This info is very very helpful - im doing my first one (probably only one!!) this weekend for a friend that begged and begged.....they dont want anything to flash - its very laid back....but ohhh....the pressure....im thinking I wont be getting much sleep on Friday night.

Cheers
Aidan

[Philco]

oh the irony.....

I don't see any Irony at all. Maybe you can clue me in.

One sentence describes Tim's ratio of exposure settings..Manual versus AV.
The next describes Metering modes...partial versus evaluative and/or spot.

Is there some contradiction here that I'm missing? I kind of doubt it.

[Inspired Photography]

Not to take over Tim's thread, but i also tend to use Av 90% and M 10%.

I usually switch to manual when i want to push the flash harder due to lower light. Av will slow the shutter below handheld speeds if you're not careful. P used to be my fix for that before i did weddings, but i quickly learned that the 1/60 f4 or whatever really didn't suit most of the shots i was trying to get. Expecially group stuff.

Hope this is of some use to someone.

And i too share my distaste for what seem to be useless posts such as Cameron's.

Rob

[CyberPet]

I'm glad I can help byso. This thread isn't to teach people how to do wedding photograhy, it's to help other people doing their "first time" to stop them making the same mistakes I did.


I second that!

Both Tim and I started out almost at the same time (just a few weeks between) and his experience was helpful for me when I went out shooting just a few weeks later. We both have learnt a lot since, but we both know and remember "the first time" very well and like to share that experience.

[rvt1000]

so why do you all not shoot in M more then Av.....it seems there is more control when in M albeit more variables as well to manage. So why choose Av or M when you can control variables better?

by the way tim, finished both Gero and the other wedding photoj book and I'm now working on the camera raw book your reccomended....good reads! thanks

[CyberPet]

Advantage of mainly Av is that you are more or less ready to shoot at any time, since you affect the aperture and not also the shutter speed - and might end up loosing a shot due to wrong settings in the camera. Some auto, even if it's half-auto is good while shooting a wedding and you need to be ready for anything.

[tim]

so why do you all not shoot in M more then Av.....it seems there is more control when in M albeit more variables as well to manage. So why choose Av or M when you can control variables better?

by the way tim, finished both Gero and the other wedding photoj book and I'm now working on the camera raw book your reccomended....good reads! thanks

Like Petra said, in Av there's less to worry about, set your aperture and shoot. In manual there's more work, and weddings can be very fast paced.

Glad you like the books :)

[kawter2]

so why do you all not shoot in M more then Av.....it seems there is more control when in M albeit more variables as well to manage. So why choose Av or M when you can control variables better?



I shoot in M about 90% of the time. and go to AV in a pinch i.e wedding processional from inside to outside etc... I would be very fearful of shooting in AV for an entire wedding. I shoot jpg for weddings, and I don't think AV would work for me w/o shooting RAW


There is WAY more control to M, but at the same time you need to be aware of your surroundings.

[DocFrankenstein]

I think Av with partial metering, EC and FEC will always have its place at weddings.

Of course if you have some uniform light and an ambient light meter... then manual may be the way to go.

[tim]

Of course if you have some uniform light and an ambient light meter... then manual may be the way to go.

Time is the issue with that. In a church where people don't move much it might be ok for the couple shots, and maybe for shots of the guests. Outside under a tree, or in bright sunlight shooting from different angles you could have a hell of a time getting the exposure right.

[kawter2]

Time is the issue with that. In a church where people don't move much it might be ok for the couple shots, and maybe for shots of the guests. Outside under a tree, or in bright sunlight shooting from different angles you could have a hell of a time getting the exposure right.

Ive shot over a hundred weddings and I shoot primarily Manual exposure. I've shot indoor outdoor beach park backyard church cathedral courtyard.. you name it. When I started out as a 2nd I shot about 80% manual,, but actually if you know what you are doing, M is a LOT easier and a lot more controlled.. you meter your lighting conditions, vs AV where your camera is CONSTANTLY metering and you CONSTANTLY have to EC based on the scene



I DEFINATELY audible to AV from time to time, but it is at most 10%



I think Av with partial metering, EC and FEC will always have its place at weddings.

Of course if you have some uniform light and an ambient light meter... then manual may be the way to go.

I thought you mentioned in another thread that you have never shot weddings

Outside under a tree, or in bright sunlight shooting from different angles you could have a hell of a time getting the exposure right.


Tim I'm not trying to stir the pot or be arogant (honestly), but I am telling you that you have more consitant results if you force yourself to be comfortable with Manual Exposure.. Also shooting raw you will have an easier time in post production batching

[tim]

You make a good point Kawter. Once I get a little more comfortable at weddings i'll give it a go, right now i'm doing pretty well on Av.

[kawter2]

let me follow that up though..

I know a photographer that shoots a LOT o LOT o LOT o Program mode and he makes $$$$$


It was good enough to land him the gig for Christina Agulerra's recient wedding,

So i'm not saying it isnt possible

[CyberPet]

I think it's important to know that you should use whatever mode that works best for you, either it being the P mode or M mode. I sure don't judge people for their camera or what mode they use, but the result they get.

I don't dare to shoot JPEG, but my mentor does and refuse to use RAW. He shoots Av only, and that's what I do too... but I also use P mode and M mode... depends on my mood. :D

[byso]

I completed my first wedding on the weekend. The results are good, I guess there's areas that can be improved upon. So thanks for the info.

What size prints do you generally use for the landscape albums, is 8"x12" a good start?

[tim]

Not many people seem to want 8x12" prints, maybe because of what they cost.

[byso]

I meant the digital printed albums of the collage type.

As an example i've got this.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bradyoung/images/Digital%20Pages/CK%201%20500.jpg

[tim]

When I do digital albums they're printed directly onto the page, so I don't know print sizes. I usually do 10x10" asukabook's, some photos will be 10 inches wide/high, most will be less. That's just me though.

This thread has turned into a rather large "ask Tim" thread, hopefully everyone still realises i'm not an expert, as you can probably guess by the way this thread was started recently after my first wedding.

[VanceW]

Oh .. .great!
This thread has turned into a rather large "ask Tim" thread, hopefully everyone still realises i'm not an expert,

6 pages of posts and now he tells us !!! :D

This has actually been a pretty good post with everyone sharing their knowledge.

[tim]

Oh .. .great!

6 pages of posts and now he tells us !!! :D

This has actually been a pretty good post with everyone sharing their knowledge.

Heh, the "my first wedding" is a bit of a clue ;)

[mizuno]

Tim, you'd probably make more money as a photographer's consultant.

Perhaps it's time for a career change? ;)

[tim]

Tim, you'd probably make more money as a photographer's consultant.

Perhaps it's time for a career change? ;)

The phrase "the blind leading the blind" comes to mind ;)

[dandan]

exelent thread, this should get a sticky

[BLINN]

Time have you even received your first coffee table book from asukabooks yet? I would love to hear from someone who has. What is the quality of the book? Is it worth the price? and how did the client like it?

[tim]

Nope not received it yet, it's still being designed and will probably be another few weeks, the customer wants to take their time.

[mackb]

Just wanted to say thanks again to Tim, I read a lot but, don't always "reply"
Maybe when I become an expert (like Tim) I'll reply more often.
Thanks again!

[tim]

Here's the latest installment of my "lessons learned". By the time i've been doing this a few years... I expect to still be learning, but hopefully not just basics like these.

If you're just starting out then you probably won't remember all of these. The ones with ***'s are the ones I tend to mess up most often.

- What looks in focus on a tiny screen can look terrible on a big screen. If you're playing with depth of field you can't judge it from your little lcd. Bracket you apertures. *** THIS IS IMPORTANT ***
- Be very careful of camera movement (ie don't forget the basics).
- With makeup and hair women turn from looking average/ordinary to looking amazing. Capture the transformation - but don't go crazy and take 100 shots.
- Make sure your lens hood is screwed all the way on. Again, pay attention to the basics.
- If you don't have a flash bracket fitted use landscape and crop. Seriously.
- Pay attention to clothes. All jackets should be done up, shouldn't have excessive wrinkles, should hang nicely, collars in the right place, make sure there's nothing poking out the bottom of the jacket. Similar for hair.
- Using the sun as a backlight is good, try and shoot diagonally so it doesn't strike your lens and cause flare. In strong sunlight have someone shade your lens so the sun doesn't strike it directly, even with a hood the flare can detract from a photo.
- Take a checklist of essential shots for each section of the wedding.
- Make sure shoulders are NEVER parallel with the camera. Ever.
- Make sure people are properly centered if a background warrants it. eg in an arch, or a gazebo.
- Rings reflect like mirrors, remove any bright light sources (eg windows windows), and if possible take ring shots in a dimly lit room. Alternately try and get something interesting as the reflection, maybe flowers, perhaps lit by a slaved or natural light.
- When taking shots of objects (eg dress hanging from rail, cake shots, everything really) make sure your camera is perfectly square with the background. Diagonal lines aren't good for this type of shot. *** Important ***
- When using strobes for formals, beware of lens flare. You can't see it on the little LCD most of the time, unless perhaps you zoom in.
- Use the spirit level on your tripod to make sure you don't need to straighten images in photoshop. It can take bloody ages if you have a heap of formals.
- Beware of reflective backgrounds. If you get one (eg I had curved varnished wood behind an alter) throw your flash away, or put the lights up really really high (like 13 feet or more).
- Studio lights are GREAT for formals, if you have time to set them up and tear them down. Two lights is great. I have two AB800s (320WS), and i'd have liked more power if I could get it.
- If you use a backlight, a point source (eg the sun or a strobe) seems to work better than a large light source (eg overcast clouds).
- Again, wear comfortable shoes, take plenty to eat and drink, and relax! Once you get over the panic stage weddings are great fun!

[graykita]

Excellent Thread, learned quite a bit. A friend asked me to do her wedding, i explained to her that i have no experience and that i am not very good yet, still learning. She said that she doesn't mind, she said all that was ok just to get candids, which i do very well at every gathering and that is what she is expecting. I was very nervous but now i feel better and will go check out the locations this week and the week of the wedding to make sure i have a plan.. Thanks for sharing all this info..

[Moniphoto]

Thanks tim :)

[song4themoon]

I agree with all the points and most of them I realized after my first shoot as well.
Thanks for posting this

[Moniphoto]

Graykita I am in the same boat. The most important thing is practice...

Good luck

Moni

[MagicallyDelicious]

i am shooting a small family wedding in aug. I have recenty bought a 28-200 as adviced by another wedding photographer so that i didnt have to change lenses often with it being my first time.

do you think that was the right advice?

[tim]

I would personally suggest a 24-70/28-75 F2.8 type lens as much more practical. A 28-200 lens is far too slow for using indoors without flash, F5.6 or so at 200mm isn't a lot of good except in bright advice. You can shoot an entire wedding with a standard range F2.8 zoom.

[MagicallyDelicious]

I would personally suggest a 24-70/28-75 F2.8 type lens as much more practical. A 28-200 lens is far too slow for using indoors without flash, F5.6 or so at 200mm isn't a lot of good except in bright advice. You can shoot an entire wedding with a standard range F2.8 zoom.

thanks..ill have a look at some new lenses.

[Claire]

I'll found out next week if a couple have decided to have me as their wedding photographer. I hope so. Then I have a good reason for browsing every darn "how do I shoot a wedding" thread on this forum...LOL

Oh yeah, and then I can start getting really nervous and try to sort out all those telling me to not do it... ;)

[Lord_Malone]

I'm glad I came across this thread. I was shooting a Change of Command ceremony today for my outgoing Squadron Commander. I was approached by another Colonel's wife who asked me to shoot their son's wedding at the post chapel tomorrow morning. Talk about short notice! I agreed to do it. She asked me how much I normally charge and I simply told her that I would shoot the wedding, process the images, and review them with her. If she liked what she saw then we can discuss pricing. I'm thinking of charging them maybe half of what the average cost of local wedding photographers would charge if the images turn out good. Or is that asking too much my first time out? Maybe 1/3 of the average cost? :( Anyway, it's time to get my feet wet. I somehow managed to earn a reputation around Fort Carson for taking "good pictures" of various events, so it's time for me to really show and prove. I don't know if I can consume every bit of knowledge and required reading overnight, but I'll try. If anything, I'll do it just so I can get some experience. Maybe I'm in over my head. :(

[tim]

Lord_Malone, i'd suggest you give her a price that you'll charge if she's happy with the images now.

[Lord_Malone]

Lord_Malone, i'd suggest you give her a price that you'll charge if she's happy with the images now.

I'm not sure what that price should be. I've never done a wedding for money, so Idon't know. Plus, I haven't shot anything for her yet. She may have seen some of my pics I took for the Regiment, but I don't want to quote her a price based on that stuff. I want to give her a quality product in the end. Processed images, photo/video slide show with music, etc. BTW, I just picked up those two books you recommended. I'm cramming information in my head at an alarming rate.

[aparmley]

Lord - If you have to figure something - figure out the time you'll invest here and think about an hourly rate you find satisfactory - now figure in all your expenses and add that to the hourly rate. Thats about as easy as it can get I think. . . WP $$s range from dirt cheap couple hundred to 5k + in this area - midwest. So half of 5 grand is a lot more than half of $600.

I Agree with Tim - get something figured out prior to her seeing the images - She might be wowed by them but only lead on that shes mildly impressed to get a better rate. Gotta get yours brother!

One more thing - I think its more important for you to settle on an amount you feel comfortable charging - nevermind what other WP are going to think about the price - there will always be someone who doesn't like the amount you decided to charge - Charge the amount you're comfortable with so you can cover the event stress free. pricing will come later. I think whats more valuable here than any price you could figure for it is the experience you'll gain. Thats my .02 and I'll probably get booed out of this forum for it!

Oh ya good luck and I'm sure you'll wow 'em with that warm, golden, buttery smile! [wear the teeth!]

[billshack]

16) Flash brakets are essential, diffusers are slightly less so.

.

Really good info wish i'd seen it all sooner i am shooting my first tomorrow. Can you elaborate on WHY you feel brackets are essential. I've been trying to come up with a good reason to get one other than they look very professional :p

[thebrewer]

I was approached by another Colonel's wife who asked me to shoot their son's wedding at the post chapel tomorrow morning. Talk about short notice! I agreed to do it. She asked me how much I normally charge and I simply told her that I would shoot the wedding, process the images, and review them with her. If she liked what she saw then we can discuss pricing. I'm thinking of charging them maybe half of what the average cost of local wedding photographers would charge if the images turn out good.
Malone,
You take great photos based on your posts here...you are not in over your head. Worst case, figure out a price based on your hours worked and work from there. You have a great eye, consider this your first step in professional photography.

Rich

[thebrewer]

Really good info wish i'd seen it all sooner i am shooting my first tomorrow. Can you elaborate on WHY you feel brackets are essential. I've been trying to come up with a good reason to get one other than they look very professional :p To lower shadows below/behind the subject to keep them from beinng too obvious.

[Lord_Malone]

Thanks for all the helpful advice, guys. You're all awesome.

[edistoimaging]

Good Thoughts. Did one in an old house last month. Your tips are spot on. Have been doing weddings for a year and it was my hardest yet. I might add to anyone interested to bring lots of flash for posed portraits and for fill work.

[billshack]

To lower shadows below/behind the subject to keep them from beinng too obvious.

Thanks Brewer. I am using a Lumiquest 80/20 at the moment and it does this pretty good but of course i pay the price in reduced distance and about 1 stop or so as well.

[Lord_Malone]

Whew! Tough work! :(

[aparmley]

Whew! Tough work! :(

Let us know how it turned out and lets see a few images when you're done!

[tim]

Really good info wish i'd seen it all sooner i am shooting my first tomorrow. Can you elaborate on WHY you feel brackets are essential. I've been trying to come up with a good reason to get one other than they look very professional :p

They're essential for some situations, mainly when shooting with flash as the main light indoors. I forgot to take mine to the last wedding I did, and it wasn't a problem. You can always shoot landscape and crop if you need to.

[DWolfe]

Thanks for the advice.

I have my first serious wedding next month. I have shot other weddings but never been paid, until next month. I have been told I should be paid and a lot my pictures turned out better than the Photographer that was hired. anyway I will post wedding next month.

[Su-Hannie]

Great stuff!!! Thanks I'm sure this will be useful.

[yarnos]

great advice, i'am intrested in doing wedding gigs have read this excellent piece of information but need to know exactly what whould be good and inexpensive camera lenses to do these gigs is there any place on this forum which explains in more specific details of what type of lense and settings are required to capture those romantic moments? i currently own a canon 17-85mm usm lense and a canon 350d what is your opionion

[tim]

great advice, i'am intrested in doing wedding gigs have read this excellent piece of information but need to know exactly what whould be good and inexpensive camera lenses to do these gigs is there any place on this forum which explains in more specific details of what type of lense and settings are required to capture those romantic moments? i currently own a canon 17-85mm usm lense and a canon 350d what is your opionion

Before you can even consider wedding photography you must have mastered exposure, as well as knowing your equipment inside out. Posing is also tough, I recommended books that will help you learn. The questions you've asked show that you're not anywhere near ready to attempt wedding photography.

My recommendation for a starter professional wedding kit:
- 2x30D (cheap version - 20D + XT, but I wouln't do that)
- 17-55 F2.8 IS (cheap version Tamron 28-75 F2.8 but you'll upgrade quickly)
- 70-200 F2.8 IS
- 2x580EX (or 580EX/550EX)
- 10GB memory (all solid state CF cards)
- Flash bracket
- Studio lighting (a nice powerful single strobe) is helpful.

I also have a couple of primes, a couple of other zooms, and a macro lens. I'd not like to be without any of them but could get by if necessary. All gear has backups in case of failure, because failures do happen. I've had 20D's go down during a ceremony twice, luckily I had a backup right beside me so it didn't matter.

Don't expect much change out of US$10K

[35mm]

If only I knew about this thread a few days ago :)

[yarnos]

thank you for advice!!!i know i'am no where near ready still preparing my self up!!! i'am considering a few crash course? any recommondations for Australia or over the net like dvd tutorials? what are your thoughts,, can you give brief outline on how you first started out with photography!!!.....
Lately i have been noticing pictures and images in a photographic view try to understand what type of settings and angles the photographer has used. Is there any particular website that explains in detail how images are taken or examples?
sorry if this question is silly but i have a lot of confusion in my mind i want to learn this piece of ART it's so amazing there is another perspective out there!

[tim]

I started like many do, doing a wedding for a friend. I learned by reading a half dozen wedding photography books, mastering the use of my camera, experimenting with lighting and in different situations (backlit, direct sun, low light inside, etc), and reading LOTS of websites. I'd give yourself 3-6 months intensive study before attempting to do a wedding yourself - I had 3 months and about 4 hours per day. Another way is by working as an assistant to an experienced pro.

Can't help much with Australian resources, maybe Del can. I didn't use any local resources, just books from amazon and the web.

[yarnos]

Can you identify all the books you have purchased and read which assisted you into wedding Photography?
Can you explain why you would select the Tamron lense 28-75 or the canon 17-55?
In what type of situations would you use this lense for ? Candid shots, or good for close up portrait shots?

[tim]

I've posted links to books earlier in the thread.

I've used the Tamron 28-75 for a year, it works ok but in some cases the focus isn't dead on. 98% of the time it is, and it could be user error, but I want to upgrade to a higher quality lens. The 17-55 IS gives me a better range plus IS, so if the lens is good enough quality it's perfect. My only concern is lens flare, and a little vignetting.

[yarnos]

Hi!
That is an amazing story from just reading and applying yourself you have become such a good photographer! on other peoples experience!!
Can you identify all your books that you have read and purchased in order of preference because i have researched alot of books on amazon but iam not sure which one's to purchase, your learning experience is like the one i'am looking for !! teach myself at my own leisure.
Looking at the wedding equipment recommendations, why have you selected these particular lenses? what type of scenarios would you use the lenses you have identified.
would the 17-85mm lense be a recommendation!

[tim]

Ok, i'll post my book list again:

These three teach you some basics
Light: science and magic (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0240802756?v=glance&tag2=headphonerevi-20).
Camera RAW (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0321334094?v=glance&tag2=headphonerevi-20)
Understanding Exposure (http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Photographs-Digital-Updated/dp/0817463003/sr=1-1/qid=1162514439?ie=UTF8&s=books&tag2=headphonerevi-20)

These three are about weddings
One (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1584281340?tag2=headphonerevi-20).
Two (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1584281227/qid=1135897953?tag2=headphonerevi-20)
Three (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0817433252?tag2=headphonerevi-20).

Gear list recommendations:
- 2x30D (but take your pick) - $1280 each
- 17-55 F2.8 IS - ideal range on cropped sensor without switching lenses ($1230 inc hood)
- 70-200 F2.8 IS - great for when you have to stay back a bit in churches, ceremonies, and receptions ($1649)
- 50mm F1.4 or Sigma 30mm F1.4 - great for low light/first dance/prep photos ($500 ish)
- 100mm F2.8 macro, Tokina 12-24 F4/Canon 10-22 are nice to have ($469/$449)
- 10GB solid state compact flash (ie not microdrives or portable storage devices) - $86/ea $430 total
- Flash bracket ($100 ish)
- 580EX + 550EX, plus one of these (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=42160&is=REG&addedTroughType=search) and a 42 or so inch silver umbrella. $379 per flash, might get a 550EX 2nd hand
- A bunch of camera batteries (sterlingtek.com $50), plus a bunch of good NiMH AA batteries - 16-24 of them ($50). A CP-E3 is great to have ($139).
- 2 studio lights with stands and umbrellas ($599)

That should about do you, until you get into complex multi-light setups - and i'm not there yet and may never go there. Total price $7468 without studio lights, $8150 including them and shipping.

[bikers1]

I applaud Tim's generous sharing of experience, thanks,

with respect to your point

2) Organisation is key. The pace, as I said, is frantic, and you might not have time to eat, drink, or think. Key things about this:
- Have shot lists for all shots the bride and groom want

I would add a valuable lessson I learned, from experience, people skills, get to know the best person to organise the appropriate people, in advance if possible, make them feel important and involved,

I've shot several weddings (not my preferred gigs), the biggest problem for me was where the best man had no concept (nor apparently cared) of/for his duties, at one wedding he scarpered to the bar as soon as the register was signed, I had a shot list with locations and people but no one who could gather them together, this made this the worst wedding shoot experience for me (and the bride, however she did belt him at the reception, for this and other reasons :) ) any tips on shooting wedding fights welcome :) .

Speak to the bride beforehand and gently influence her that the best man or someone else needs to be infomed and available otherwise her wedding photos may not turn out successfully, this has worked for me at the last two weddings I've shot.

p.s. the bride's mother/father can be a formidable allies :cool:

be nice, friendly, flexible and professional

good luck to everyone shooting their first weddings

Al

[tim]

Good info from Al there. You have to be careful about wedding organisation. You can't ask for too tight a time line, or enforce it in any way, because you have to keep the B&G happy and relaxed, and if you get tense or annoyed they'll sense it and the photos won't be great. The best you can really do is point out if it looks like things will run behind so they can hurry up a bit. It's a fine ballancing act.

[yarnos]

DO YOU HAVE A PHOTO LIST OR CHECKLIST THAT YOU NORMALLY USE?

[tim]

No.

[yarnos]

what are some of your favorite web sites that you recommend that enhanced your photography (apart from this excellent forum & thread) ?
cheers :-)

[tim]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180512

[Spencerj]

Thanks for those excellent tips... i covered my nieces wedding (only for fun) and some of those tips would of help! :)

[yarnos]

How would you compile your photo list or checklist ?what type of images do you ensure you cover ?
Do you cover both the bride and groom's house before ceromone :) ? how do you manage?

[tim]

Google will give you lists, experience will give you what you really need to know. I cover whatever the customers want if there's time, but it isn't always, depending on locations and times.

You should find a pro who wants an assistant and offer to work for free for a while. You won't be shooting but you'll learn more in a day than you will on the net in a month.

[petewa]

this post has been a lot of help for me. I was asked to shoot my sisters wedding at the last minute... long story short my parents are putting on a huge wedding gin the back yard in about 25 days (9 days till the wedding). i could not say no to her... i did shoot her engagement photos. i will have my 50 mm 1.4, 17-40 4/L and my 70-200 4/L. I have a 420 flash along with 2 AB 800's for the formals. she is putting together a list of shat shots she wants and then we will work from there... i am a bit nervous but hey what are you going to do. just wanted to thank you all for the information i have found here.

this will be an outdoor wedding ceremony by a stream and the reception will be under a 30x60' tent. ceremony is called for 5pm. so the lighting should not be a problem. one of my biggest concerns is getting the formal shots down....due to the background (house, sheds, vegetable gardens). going to have to watch my line of sight i am guessing.

[tim]

Glad the thread was of some use to you :)

[bikers1]

How would you compile your photo list or checklist ?what type of images do you ensure you cover ?
Do you cover both the bride and groom's house before ceromone :) ? how do you manage?

I always meet with the bride, and often her mother, grooms usually aren;t interested, they are usually paying the bills.

No two lists are the same but generally split into pre ceremony, ceremony, register signing, exit, reception, and do they want candids

a list of people to be in each shot (obvisously not all shots) but you want to make sure no one gets left out who's important, clients can be dissapointed.

it can be any format you prefer, the main point is, in the hectic day reduce stress of missing something so that you can focus on the quality of the shots.:)

[EOS mE]

I noticed that a lot of you are using different types of lense for wedding. What kind of lens do you all suggest using and why?

thanks~

[tim]

I noticed that a lot of you are using different types of lense for wedding. What kind of lens do you all suggest using and why?

There are currently two active threads about wedding lenses, i'd suggest you go and read those.

[EOS mE]

Thanks Tim!! I think I found them...

[turtle2472]

After over a year this thread is still going.

I have learned a bit from it. Thanks to all who have offered input to those of us still learning.

tim, please don't let the questions wear you down. Your input is very gratefully appreciated and down to earth. While I still don't understand enough and know I'm in over my head for my first wedding, at least I understand most of what you are offering as free advice. Thanks again.

[tim]

I'm happy to be able to help people. A lot of the advice in this thread is outdated now, as i've found better ways to do things, but it should still be useful.

[WhatEyeSee]

Tim - you suggested approaching a Pro as an assistant to learn the ropes. I have been considering this myself. What do you suggest would be a good approach. I have a photographer in my area that I have been wanting to meet, and see if I can "tag" along for a few weddings to observe, but am concerned they would be hesitant. Do you think most pros are open to this, or are they "threatned" even if the person is a new shooter.

[tim]

It never hurts to ask! If someone asked me I would consider taking them along. They'd have to be the right type of person, be willing to work as an assistant probably without a camera at least to start with, and I probably wouldn't want someone who only wants to come along a few times - that doesn't help me much.

[WhatEyeSee]

:) Thanks.

[Claire]

Silly question that just hit me.Where do you all place your bag when shooting?

[tim]

Under a pew, behind seats, off to the side of where I am - anywhere that doesn't get in the way of people or photos, where you can still see it.

[tim]

Rather than explaining it over and over, i'm going to post my vignette technique once and point people at it if they ask for it. This thread is as good a place as any.

1) Open high res file.
2) Get the lasso tool, in the options bar set it to a 250px feather (that's the max it'll do). For web sized images try 50px.
3) Draw a rough outline around the main subject, don't be too fussy. Leave some space between them and what's around them. This takes me 3 seconds, if it takes you much longer you're doing it wrong.
4) Invert selection, copy selection to new layer.
5) On the new layer open levels, drag the middle slider to the right until you like the way it looks.
6) Same layer, add some gaussian blur if you like.
7) Add saturation and contrast adjustment layers to taste.
8) Add channel mixer adjustment layer if you want B&W. I look at each channel using Control + 1 thru Control + 3, then mix them to taste. Control + ~ resets to show you all the channels at once.
9) If you want sepia or duotone go to your top layer, hold down alt, and select "merge layers". A new layer will be created. Do you tinting there.

[Wazza]

So Tim, can I ask you how to do the same on Photoshop 7, :p

I never got it working and kinda gave up.

Anyone else know?

[tim]

So Tim, can I ask you how to do the same on Photoshop 7, :p

What doesn't work? I would think it has the lasso tool, you might have to choose select -> feather perhaps. Everything else is trivial so don't know why it wouldn't work.

[EOS mE]

i just tried it the way Tim described it. The only thing i couldn't do right is the step 9. by top layer, i assume you are talking about the original photo (labeled background) right? because when i held down ALT, i wasn't able to get it to merge. instead i just went with the layer and hit Ctrl + E and merged.

here's a quick sample i did from a random photo off the web. is this the effect you are teaching Tim?